Putin warns Turkey there will be "serious consequences" for "stabbing Russia in the back"(Shortened)

DailyMail.co.uk ^ | November 24, 2015 | Sarah Malm And Will Stewart

[Neoliberalnot]

I side with Putin any day over a pack of Turkish Muslims.

[Neoliberalnot]

So why are you siding with the Muslims. You do know the turkeys are 98% Muslim, right?

[dragnet2]

America loses not because of Putin but because American corrupt and deceitful leadership.

To clarify, I’m not blaming Uncle Joe and Aunt Flo in Kansas. I’m saying everything going on in the mid-east today was created in large part by American leadership/government. The same one’s who’ve laid our own borders and sovereignty to waste while looting Joe and Flo and the American treasure.

[kabar]

BS. I lived a total of 7 years in the region. The people who bear the greatest responsibility for the turmoil in the region is their own political leadership, which is corrupt and despotic. America has made some mistakes, but it is debatable if we could ever control events in the region. There are fundamental, deep seated problems in the culture, which has had a difficult time adjusting to modernity.

Does the creation of Israel play a role in your conspiratorial view of history?

[Longbow1969]

So why are you siding with the Muslims. You do know the turkeys are 98% Muslim, right?

HA, this is like saying "have you stopped beating your wife".

I don't support Russia and don't have much use for Turkey either - especially since Erdogan has been pushing his country in an Islamist direction.

Russia is the greater threat to us at this time though. Big picture in mind, Russia is our primary geopolitical opponent.

[Neoliberalnot]

One King Hussein is out of office and before this war with Islam is over, Russia will be our ally again.

[PotatoHeadMick]

You know I have been bewildered as to why the US has decided to intervene in the 1500 year civil war in Islam between the Sunnis and Shias and back the wrong side.

I have been unable for the life of me to understand why in the scenario where a relatively (these things are all relative in that region) advanced nation like Iran (and to a lesser extent Syria) - which allows women to vote, to get an education, to leave their homes unaccompanied, and which tolerates Christians and Jews - is pitted against a barbarian, medieval, savagely intolerant desert kingdom like Saudi Arabia, the US and its allies backs the Saudis.

Iran hasn’t threatened US interests in almost forty years whereas a bunch of Saudis immolated a large section of downtown Manhattan in 2001 and yet Saudi Arabia “is our good friend”. Why?

I assumed this was all to do with money and that the Saudis simply bankrolled western politicians, but I think I may have grasped the underlying reason.

It’s Israel isn’t it? No this isn’t Jew-baiting, I ask the question in a spirit of genuine curiosity.

For Israel my enemy’s enemy is my friend, and Israel’s enemies have always been the same as those of Saudi Arabia (and Turkey). Israel has no real quarrel with Saudi Arabia or Turkey but has had a long history with Assad’s Syria, Saddam’s Iraq and the ayatollah’s Iran, precisely the same enemies as Saudi Arabia and Turkey. The Saudis hate Shias and other heretics more than they do the Jews.

I have the greatest of respect for Israel, they have achieved magnificent successes and long may they prosper but I think it is dangerous for the US to simply adopt Israel’s regional real-politik strategy as official US foreign policy.

I really think the US needs to look again at where this mess is taking it.

[apoliticalone]

George Washington warned us to avoid treaties and entangling relationships as it enables other countries to play us as a fool and involve us in the games they play that will never be in our national interest. We need to extricate ourself from the ME.

[AndyJackson]

am not supportive of Erdogan, but Turkey has a right to protect its sovereignty

We have been playing cat and mouse games with the Russians (Soviets) since before the end of WWII. We have done it with aircraft, with spies, with ships, with submarines and with squads of special forces. It is a serious game and there is a well-established protocol. Whatever it is, when you detect an incursion you prosecute with all that you think it takes and chase the other side out of your claimed space. But these single unit on single unit skirmishes around the edges did not go hot because both sides knew that they were not worth starting WWIII over.

The Turks just broke those rules and Oblimey said Ogoodey! He did not express the least bit of sorrow for the loss of two aircraft or the violations of the Geneva convention in killing pilots and shooting down rescue helicopters.

Turkey might want to think real hard about ever again locking a fighter born radar on a Russian plane, that is in Syrian airspace. That is a deliberate hostile act under anyone's rules of engagement, exacerbated by Turkey's demonstrated willingness to shoot.

And, this is not a cat and mouse game. The Russians are in Syria on serious business.

[Longbow1969]

No they won’t. Russia will keep trying to reassemble it’s empire - at least as long as ex KGB agent Putin remains in charge (which will probably be a very long time whether he is technically President or not).

The problem is what Bush, Obama and a lot of Putinistas here don’t seem to understand is that Putin is never going to play the role people in the West wish he would. He is always going to see NATO as a threat and seek to destroy it, he is always going to try to weaken the United States in order to prevent us from being the sole super power, he is always going to look for weakness and a power vacuum and try to fill it, he is always going to believe the destruction of the Soviet Union was the single greatest disaster in the 20th century, etc, etc. Putin is not our friend. At best he will always be a global competitor, but more often than not he will be a geopolitical foe.

You do realize that Russia is perfectly happy to arm Iran and seems uninterested in stopping them from getting nukes. Iran is as much our enemy as Daesh - in the long run, perhaps even a far bigger enemy and Russia is very cozy with them.

There is zero evidence that with Obama gone Putin will be some great ally. Absolutely nothing in Putin’s record suggests that would be the case. Bush found this out the hard way himself.

[apoliticalone]

Amen! Our nation has been corrupted and pillaged by predators with outside interests that want our guns, our legacy culture, political correctness that destroys free opinon, elites bailed out because of greed and incompetence, our borders wide open, and our heritage destroyed so that they can import the 3rd world. If you examine a time line of USA decline, many of our woes began coincidentally with the Immigration Act of 1965.

[Longbow1969]

I’m saying everything going on in the mid-east today was created in large part by American leadership/government.

Geeze, talk about blame America first.... You realize you are echoing radical far left talking points, right?

Do you oppose our alliance with Israel by chance?

[dragnet2]

Geeze, talk about blame America first.

America? Do you mean those in charge of governing and their destructive reckless policies?

[apoliticalone]

Iraq is not alone, as the USA etc are quickly becoming artificial countries too thanks to the globalist NWO pro multi culturalist elites intent on destroying national cohesion.

[Longbow1969]

Are you sure you’re in the right place? The stuff I’ve seen you dribble out looks exactly what I’d expect from InfoWars or maybe some radical left website.

And you didn’t answer my question by the way. Do you oppose our alliance with Israel?

[dragnet2]

You could be a spokesperson for Obama!

Btw, tell me more about this “Israel conspiracy” thing you mentioned. Thanks.

[dragnet2]

Ah..You responded with a question to a question. Hmmm...

[Oztrich Boy]

Russia has no cards to play here

Putin gets approval from Assad to destroy the Turkmen forces who murdered the Russian pilots.

What cards do Erdogan and Obama have?

[Longbow1969]

America? Do you mean those in charge of governing and their destructive reckless policies?

Sorry man, but you either have a very short memory or a terrible grasp of history. These "destructive reckless policies" of which you speak have been with us for our entire history. Obama has been particularly terrible, but I'd still say Jimmy Carter was worse. One only has to go back to Johnson, Kennedy, FDR and his 2nd bill of rights, etc, etc. Obama isn't our first socialist, and he won't be our last. That does not mean all the problems of the middle east our America's fault as you argue. And yes, you sound like a radical leftist.

Now, do you support America's alliance with Israel or not?

[Democratic-Republican]

Comparing elections in Turkey to those held in Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua is just pure nonsense. It is apples and oranges. So you believe that Obama was not elected legally or legitimately twice? Denial just ain't a river in Egypt.

Isn't it always apples and oranges though? No two things are alike. I think the point still stands, it is what leftists use to put their foreign darlings above criticism, let alone economic or military intervention. Don't get me started on President DingleBarry though, he may be technically legally elected, but he is not legitimate or remotely qualified. He violates the spirit if not the letter of the NBC requirement and every stone should have been overturned to prevent him from getting near the oval office. Start another thread to argue this one though!

You get the government you deserve.

Obviously! Look at us. Does it make it okay? Not in my opinion. Not in a world governed by the aggressive use of force ( Rush ) or in a world governed by the aggressive use of political correctness ( Bammy's world ). But unless I'm misreading your point, you seem to be saying we need to resign ourselves to this, majority rule, minorities crushed. You must see where it all winds up.

I don't know how old you are, but that has not always been the case. The times I visited Turkey, it was quite secular. It is only fairly recently that it has descended in Islamic fundamentalism. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk brought Turkey into the modern world. My daughter's roomate in boarding school and college was from Turkey. She is currently running her father's business in Turkey at age 40.

Old. They have been relatively stable for the past few decades but not before that. Secularism, their defining characteristic was in fact largely thanks to the man you cite. But now here we are, the fat part of a hundred years later and his fellow Moslems in all corners of the world are remembering their scriptures, taking notice of the weakness of the West and moving the ball down the field in a game that has no clock and with referees who only throw flags on our team. Just how long can secular Turkey last in this game? The one thing worse than a moderate Moslem country attached to NATO where we are on the hook for every stupid thing they might do, would be a radical Moslem country attached to NATO where we are on the hook for every stupid thing they might will do. Erdogan is a step back, he is Obama's puppet, and he is backed by NATO. We have good reason to speak up now.

How about this. Would anyone trust them to have a nuclear arsenal ( I mean their own, not NATO missiles )? I've got nothing against them myself as many others do, but I think it is a Western myth that we need to cozy up to Turkey as a bulwark against radicalism to show us as compassionate to the rest of the world. It's deeper than that actually. All the 'separation of Church and State' seems aimed only here in the USA, particularly at Christians, meanwhile we prop up Islamic regimes and pay for God knows what in these countries. But what do I know. I was against Camp David because paying either Egypt or Israel billions a year violates our First Amendment in my view. Call me crazy.

BTW I just heard Levin on the radio giving tacit support of that shootdown, 'they were warned'! But he's being absurd. Will he do the same if a French or American plane drifts over Crimea or anywhere else? Ridiculous.

You must be Greek.

:-) LOL. Good one. How about Roman?

F*cking Greeks Turks!