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The Oregon militia standoff shouldn't end in bloodshed
Hot Air.com ^ | January 3, 2016 | TAYLOR MILLARD

Posted on 01/03/2016 4:13:57 PM PST by Kaslin

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To: MarMema
Good article, but it raises more questions than it answers.

Two important ones:

(1) If you believe someone is illegally altering a contract, why wouldn't you take them to court yourself?

(2) Why would you build facilities on land you don't own and the use of which you are disputing?

(3) Why would the article not mention that Bundy had been grazing without a permit, and without paying a dime, for 20 years?

181 posted on 01/04/2016 12:02:07 PM PST by wideawake
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To: wideawake

Why do you always assume government agencies are right and that government corruption doesn’t exist?


182 posted on 01/04/2016 12:03:16 PM PST by SeaHawkFan
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To: SeaHawkFan
You're making assumptions about me.

I don't make the assumptions you allege.

I assume that both sides are working toward their respective self-interests.

183 posted on 01/04/2016 12:12:19 PM PST by wideawake
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To: wideawake

The government abuses the rights of citizens all the time through corrupt practices, legal actions and intimidation.


184 posted on 01/04/2016 12:13:59 PM PST by SeaHawkFan
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To: wideawake

Previous owners; all the way down.


185 posted on 01/04/2016 12:14:43 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: wintertime

There ya go; businesses pay NO taxes.

They buy raw materials of all sorts and produce an item for someone to buy. “Taxes” are just another ingredient like steel, plastic, wages or electricity.


186 posted on 01/04/2016 12:19:07 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: SeaHawkFan
And citizens commit real crimes every day.

Checks and balances.

The government will never be perfect, so it needs to be kept small and accountable.

187 posted on 01/04/2016 12:20:42 PM PST by wideawake
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To: Lazamataz
How DARE you use a word the way you want to!!!




 


'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,
' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'  


188 posted on 01/04/2016 12:21:49 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Previous owners; all the way down.

Nice try, but for this land it dates back to conquest in the 1800s.

The immediate previous owners we are talking about here are the state of Oregon and various private landowners.

189 posted on 01/04/2016 12:22:44 PM PST by wideawake
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To: Elsie

Exactly!

Taxes are merely another “ingredient” that is hidden in the price.


190 posted on 01/04/2016 4:35:55 PM PST by wintertime (Stop treating government teachers like they are reincarnated Mother Teresas!)
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To: wideawake
Ok....So there is some expense for the government to “defend the title” to a property. Hm?....That might be $20 or $30 a year, maybe? How much does it cost for a nurse to maintain her license per year? Taking care of a title to a home or business is likely in the same cost range.

If the government needs to provide other services, fine! Tax people in the most transparent and least costly to collect manner to cover the cost of these services. Don't turn property owners into renters.

191 posted on 01/04/2016 8:39:28 PM PST by wintertime (Stop treating government teachers like they are reincarnated Mother Teresas!)
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To: wintertime
Again, you are simplifying.

A tenant has no right to dispose of property yet still pays rent - rent which generally covers all of the owner's property taxes plus a substantial amount over and above those taxes.

An owner has the right to dispose of the property as he sees fit - to sell it, devise it, and leave it to heirs.

Characterizing property tax as rent is simply not correct.

And property tax no longer just supports title as it did in the olden days when there was no electrical grid, no public sewerage, no public fire protection, no paved roads, no public schooling etc.

If you want medieval taxes, you'll get medieval infrastructure.

192 posted on 01/05/2016 3:16:06 AM PST by wideawake
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To: wideawake
It is rent when the fee to protect the title is more than a few dollars a year.

There are numerous ways to collect the taxes needed to provide government services that are far more transparent.

193 posted on 01/05/2016 4:43:15 AM PST by wintertime (Stop treating government teachers like they are reincarnated Mother Teresas!)
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To: wideawake
No one wants medieval infrastructure...but...don't turn property owners into renters to a government landlord to fund it.

There are many other forms of taxes that are far more transparent that are already in existence that can an do fund ( in part) these government services . .

194 posted on 01/05/2016 4:47:00 AM PST by wintertime (Stop treating government teachers like they are reincarnated Mother Teresas!)
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To: wintertime
It is rent when the fee to protect the title is more than a few dollars a year.

Again, you don't seem to get the concept of what rent is.

195 posted on 01/05/2016 6:51:04 AM PST by wideawake
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To: wideawake
Yes, I do.

You claim the purpose of government property tax is to defend the title. The cost to do this is very very minimal. The government is under no obligation to protect the property. Courts have ruled that this is so.

Ok...So...Government services are needed and taxes are needed to support community services. There are other means of taxation that are far far far more transparent that hiding them in property tax and essentially turning the “owner” into a government renter.

Property taxes are MOST onerous to the poor! Their property taxes are **hidden** in the rent they pay and in the prices of every service and good they purchase. These taxes are paid by all of us but these property taxes are extremely regressive. No one can't escape them or structure their lives in any way to reduce them. Property taxes hit the citizen ( especially the poorest) on the three items they absolutely need for survival: Food, clothing, and shelter!

One of the major factors in homelessness is lack of affordable housing. Well! Property taxes are a **major** factor in causing lack of affordability.

196 posted on 01/05/2016 8:25:57 AM PST by wintertime (Stop treating government teachers like they are reincarnated Mother Teresas!)
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To: wideawake
By the way, do you, a spouse, or one of you children work for the government indoctrination camps ( Oops! “schools”)?

Just wondering.

197 posted on 01/05/2016 8:28:15 AM PST by wintertime (Stop treating government teachers like they are reincarnated Mother Teresas!)
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