Posted on 01/11/2016 6:06:32 PM PST by TBBT
-He is eligible because one of his parents was a U.S. citizen and it was a principle of English law at the time the constitution was ratified that the children of English citizens born overseas were considered natural born citizen-
No that’s not true. And the founders didn’t care about English Law which declared them traitors, they cared about “natural law”. See the Naturalization Act of 1795, written by Madison.
Newbie HERE or not, I can point out WHY I dislike Cruz to persons who are ill advised on his eligibility and his standing as a so called Constitutionalist and Conservative. You can paint a false label on him all you please and I will STILL CONTINUE to point out his defects. As far as Newbie is concerned, I could not care less. I have far too many FReepers who agree with me to care what you think.
AND YOU are all wrong because you choose to ignore Vattel.
I don’t lie and I can’t help it if you are too thick headed to understand what is pointed out to you repeatedly. To you, the word of George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, John Jay and others upholding Vattel is of no consequence. It must be nice to be so brilliant that you know more than the men who wrote and signed the constitution.
You claimed it said "born of two American parents", in the actual Constitution.
You also claimed it said "on American soil".
If that's not a lie, please explain what it was.
I can't help it if you are too thick headed to understand what is pointed out to you repeatedly
What you pointed out was incorrect. Untrue. A lie.
To you, the word of George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, John Jay and others...is of no consequence
I want to clarify your words, first.
It must be nice to be so brilliant that you know more than the men who wrote and signed the constitution.
To be fair, I'm only going by your claim about what they wrote.
Actually the English common law was the basis for much of our judicial system for many years after the revolution.
Do you have a link to the text of that bill? I’m not doubting you, but I’ve heard this mentioned by Cruz and would be interested in seeing the actual text.
Thanks
Ted Cruz is a natural-born Canadian...... that’s a good line and I am stealing it.
Ted Cruz is a natural-born Canadian....once Trump starts using this line Ted Cruz is done. Finito. Hasta la vista sucker!
It appears that the 1795 law included a repeal of the 1790 law. The 1790 law includes a definition of ‘natural born citizen’ whereas the 1795 law does not. I’m not sure exactly how that effects the argument. Also, it’s unclear from my reading of the 1790 law whether it required both parents to be citizens or just one.
If a person was born a citizen of a state, that makes them born a citizen of the United States, without having to refer to the act of 1790 or any other act of Congress.
There’s also the question of whether or not ‘citizen at birth’ and ‘natural born citizen’ were considered to necessarily be the same thing. It’s at least conceivable to me that the term ‘natural born citizen’ had a more restrictive meaning, and meant something more to the founders than merely someone who is a citizen at birth as defined by the current statute.
Some terms are defined by natural law, such as marriage. The definition of marriage doesn’t change merely because a law was passed to say it suddenly means something it never did. Was ‘natural born citizen’ a similar concept? That’s the question. I don’t claim to know the answer.
You could argue that the fact that the act of 1790 attempted to define the term meant that it was not viewed as a term whose meaning came from natural law, but rather as a term whose meaning could be changed by statute.
On the other hand their defining of the term in the 1790 law might have been an attempt to explicitly state a natural law term whose meaning was already known and accepted, but which needed to be stated explicitly to avoid future confusion.
The constitution defines citizen. That is a person who is a citizen of a state. The 14th amendment adds that a person born in the US is a citizen, and a naturalized person is a citizen.
The constitution allows Congress to make people citizens by naturalization, and that is what the 1790, 1795, and many later acts do. Some people born abroad are citizens, but that is always by operation of a statute, unless somehow a person born abroad can be born a citizen of a state.
I don't know of anything in "natural law" that make a person born in one country the citizen of another country, other than the principle of jus sanguinas. The principle of jus sanguinas is not embodied in the constitution, and the question is whether or not Cruz is a citizen under the constitution vs. being a citizen pursuant to Congress's power to make rules of naturalization.
As far as Newbie is concerned, I could not care less. I have far too many FReepers who agree with me to care what you think.
Ha! Exactly.
To be fair, I’m only going by your claim about what they wrote.
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So effectively, you are basing your opinion on nothing but you personal preferences. You have the information, GOOGLE it and FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF but I suspect you are like far too many people, you’re too lazy.
Onemore time: The actual Constitution carried the wording Natural Born Citizen. That wording came from “Vattel’s The Law of Nations.” Google George Washington and Vattel. Google Benjamin Franklin and Vattel. Google John Jay and Vattel. and there are others.
His wording is also present in our Declaration of Independence. But of course, that’s a lie too, according to you.
You have the information so use it or lose it.
That is a very good question.
My opinion? LOL!
You have the information, GOOGLE it and FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF
You claimed it said "born of two American parents", in the actual Constitution.
You also claimed it said "on American soil".
I Googled it and found out that you were wrong. Or lying.
Which one was it?
Born in the Panama canal zone which back then was a US territory.
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