Posted on 01/12/2016 6:34:50 AM PST by SeekAndFind
No, I haven't, though I had looked for anything I could find on John Rodman. I've also been looking pretty hard for what Armstrong Wrote to Madison when he informed him of the McClure situation. I've found bits and pieces, but not anything specific about Armstrong's rejection of McClure's citizenship.
Of course you are aware that Armstrong admitted that McClure was a naturalized U.S. Citizen in a letter to Madison in 1807.
No. Do you have a link or the text of that letter? On the other hand, was that one of the letters Armstrong wrote about the Horizon incident? I may very well have that.
That is three years before saying that McClure was not a citizen. And it was Armstrong who turned McClure over to the French.
I think we both know that the McClure Citizenship thing had more to do with the threat McClure represented than anything else. I assume you are aware that John Armstrong had a bit of a history at doing underhanded unethical things? *He* was the guy who started the Mutiny among the officers that George Washington had to personally deal with when he said "you will permit me to put on my spectacles, for I have not only grown gray but almost blind in the service of my country."
Armstrong was the ringleader of that mutiny.
Armstrong was himself accused of land speculation in Florida, in a letter to Jefferson he denied the accusation.
I did know about that. Armstrong was quite the "wheeler dealer" and always involved in some sort of intrigue while he was Ambassador to France.
M. Bowden is James Bowden US Minister to Spain. He wrote to Jefferson in 1806 that Armstrong was involved in a land speculation deal involving 3 million acres in Florida.
M.Skipwith is Fulwar Skipwith. He was the U.S. official involved in The Horizon Case in 1807. Later he returned to the US and became the governor of West Florida.
I ran across all of that. It starts to make you wonder if Armstrong was protecting the interests of the United States, or his own personal interests in a Florida land deal.
More Florida connections.
Have you looked into the papers of David Bailie Warden? His relationship with Armstrong was interesting.
I think I did. Yes, I also found out what eventually happened to John Rodman, but not so much about the time period of most interest to me. Likewise, I found out where McClure was living in Florida, but I have since lost track of where is that piece of information.
It would appear that everything involved in the McClure case has more to do with Florida and little to do with citizenship.
Yes, but Obviously Madison was okay with it because he allowed it to continue. As a matter of fact, he was going to continue allowing it until his hand was finally forced on it by a Congressman from South Carolina, and a Supreme Court Justice.
That Madison didn't countermand Armstrong tells me that he either accepted Armstrong's argument about McClure's citizenship, or he thought the issue so important that he was willing to let McClure remain in French custody regardless.
Whichever way, it implies that Madison was willing to bend the rules to suit his interests. Apparently he was not a boy scout.
My Understanding is that McCain has not released his birth certificate, but he has shown it to some reporters. We have their word on that, but I think they are probably telling the truth.
I bet the West Germans wish they had a West German natural citizen clause in their constitution.
Angela Merkel.
I wouldn't go that far other than to say it certainly appears to be the case so far as James Madison is concerned.
When he needed to get his friend and ally William Loughton Smith seated in Congress, it was based on jus soli. When he needed to keep a trouble maker under control, it was based on jus sanguinus.
Madison would appear to be a bit of a pragmatist. :)
Your understanding is correct. He showed it to one reporter, Michael Dobbs, the Fact Checking reporter of the Washington Post.
There is also the word of an eye-witness to the birth, Mrs. Roberta McCain who was 95 years old when she verified the place that she gave birth.
She’s now 103.
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