1979: Remembering 'The Siege Of Mecca' (It was one of the events that gave rise to al-Qaida)

npr.org ^ | August 20, 20096:00 AM ET | Morning Edition

[Ahithophel]

What gave rise to Al-Qaeda was the US giving Afghanistan’s Al-Qaeda weapons, money and training in the 1980s.

The US gave weapons, money, and training to Afganistan's Mujahadin, an organization fighting against the Russians occupying Afghanistan during that time and one from which Al-Qaeda arose years later.

True or False: Osama bin Laden was a member of the Saudi Royal family.

[Rockingham]

Even without the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and US funding of the opposition, we would still have to deal with the pre-existing curse of Islamic terrorism.

I agree as to the malign effects of giving military training to Arab Muslim radicals to fight in Afghanistan, but Muslim donors and countries provided much of the funding, equipment, and training. Some of them, like bin Laden, declined support from and contact with the CIA, and the Pakistanis insisted on a strong measure of control over who was helped by the US. They steered a great deal of US aid to the more radical elements.

On balance, winning the Cold War by defeating the Soviets in Afghanistan mattered far more even at the price of spurring the further development of Islamic terrorism. Our post Cold War holiday from history under Bill Clinton though was the greater and proximate cause of the neglect and inattention that led to 9/11.

[Trumpinator]

On balance, winning the Cold War by defeating the Soviets in Afghanistan mattered far more even at the price of spurring the further development of Islamic terrorism.

Once you realize that Afghanistan had almost zero to do with the end of the Cold War - and in fact may have prolonged it then funding the Islamist stupidest thing the West ever did since the idiot Crusaders allowed the jihadi Mameluks to pass through Aleppo and attack the anti-Muslim Mongols.

The Mongols wanted to do a deal with the Western Crusaders to destroy the Muslims but the Crusaders feared the devil they did not know and made a deal with the jihadis. Once the jihadists won against the Mongols they turned on the Crusaders and wiped them out from the Middle East. History repeats itself (Russians being the Mongols this time and the USA being the dumb Crusaders in the Middle East).

[Rockingham]

For decades, the communist USSR was an existential threat to the West in that it had a large stockpile of nuclear weapons, massive conventional forces, and a global system of subversion and alliances, with a coordinated strategy for victory in the Cold War. Even as late as the mid-1980s, the Soviets actively contemplated a preemptive nuclear first strike on the US.

The Soviet defeat in Afghanistan had a substantial role in ending the USSR in that it shook the confidence of the leadership and discredited the regime with the Soviet public. And after Afghanistan proved that the Soviet conscript army could not subdue tribesmen living in mud huts, that same army became a doubtful instrument to enforce Soviet rule in occupied Eastern Europe. An empire may long survive even though hated and thought to have internal weaknesses, but its end is in sight when its weakness is revealed.

While Europe and the US have far more to lose, Islam is a more immediate threat to Russia. And while Putin may be the big man in the Kremlin for the rest of his life, he is not immortal. Worse, the Putin regime has no solution against Islamic aggression except to ally with pliable Muslim thugs and dictators; and as Putin's vitality declines due to age, a Brezhnev style era of corrupt stagnation seems inevitable.

Meanwhile, the US and the West are showing signs of rallying against Islamic terrorism. The American public especially seems to be nearing the limit of its acceptance of Muslim aggressiveness. And, with the illusion of Muslim democracy having worn thin, sterner measures seem likely to be restoted to.

[Trumpinator]

The Soviet defeat in Afghanistan had a substantial role in ending the USSR in that it shook the confidence of the leadership and discredited the regime with the Soviet public.

Perception is not reality. The USSR and the eastern bloc ended because their system did not work and it was already on its last legs. It was already being predicted it would end in the 70s. If we had done zero in Afghanistan the USSR would have fallen in the exact same way - maybe even sooner because a war in Afghanistan kept the old regime from admitting defeat sooner.

Alternate history scenario: We would have been better off if Afghanistan was given to the USSR (it was already ruled by a home grown commie regime that was having trouble with the rurals) in return for allowing the USA a free hand in Iran to invade it and to return the Shah's regime. The American people were all set to go to war over the hostages.