Skip to comments.Officers waited for SWAT at Orlando Pulse Shooting
Posted on 06/27/2016 5:21:31 PM PDT by marktwain
Early response outside of Pulse from Cell Phone Video
Details are emerging about the Orlando Pulse Massacre. It is clear that some of the first impressions were false.
First, there was not any initial exchange of fire inside of the club. Officers did not fire at the murderer in the club, or he at them, until the last few minutes, three hours later, when SWAT officers broke into the bathrooms through a wall.
There was an initial exchange of gunfire, but it was outside of the club. The off duty police officer/security officer quickly disengaged as the murderer entered the club while firing. It is precisely the scenario that John Lott has often predicted. If a security officer is known, a person planning a mass killing will determine a way to take them out with a surprise attack, find a way to bypass them, or avoid them.
Second, there was some time from the initial shooting until police mounted an armed response. The police response was very quick. Additional officers arrived at the scene, formed up, broke out a large window, and went in. But it still took time. It appears about six minutes passed from the initial shots until the police entered the Pulse club. During that period, the murderer was shooting and killing people inside the club. The shooting continued as the police entered.
Link to video from cell phone outside of the club, early in the shooting
Once in the club, the officers could not locate the murderer. They were uncertain how many there might be. They continued to hear shots, and determined that the shooter was in the bathroom area. They did not shoot at the murderer. It does not appear that he fired
(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...
Sounds like a Columbine repeat, featuring a rapid SWAT response which functioned to carefully oversee mass casualty bleed-out.
Well.... seems a little more of the truth is coming out.
“Sounds like a Columbine repeat, featuring a rapid SWAT response which functioned to carefully oversee mass casualty bleed-out.”
My thoughts exactly. Keep the police safe and the hell with the ongoing victims. If only it wasn’t a gun free zone and SOMEONE with a weapon could have fired back! Gun free zones - the most dangerous places in America. Look at Chicago! No gins allowed there!
Cowards within, cowards without...
since bravery can NOT be divorced from significant sacrifice and risk.
We have devolved to “above all go home safely every night” guardians and the result is grotesque and impotent by turns.
After the attack it was stated that 49 died and 53 were injured. As far as I know NONE of the 53 wounded died. Is that even possible? NONE out of the 53 wounded by gunfire later died? Any FReepers have any thoughts on that?
But hey, they shot the dog.
I suspected something like this. The time frames just didn’t add up.
Yes. It will take a while. That is one of the reasons those who oppose armed self defense wanted to act legislatively so quickly.
If there had been some armed patrons, the death toll would likely have been much smaller.
It would sound odd on its face. There are things we may not know. Who has detailed what shots were taken and how? It looks like there was a great deal of trouble taken for “kill shots” and maybe the rest weren’t so much misses as collateral casualties.
There are several on life support, still in the hospital.
The initial reports of dead kept increasing for several hours. I have been expecting another victim to die at any moment. But no reports so far.
You can here shots going on in the background of the cell phone video.
They sound fairly deliberate to me. I did not count them or try to time them. But we know that shooting was still going on when the officers went in.
My guess is that the killer was already in the bathroom area, where many victims were killed.
This was written by Columbine teacher Dave Sanders himself, who bled-out and died over the course of the 3 hours the SWAT team was bunched up in their congo line outside, carefully controlling the scene and displaying their authority with impressive black guns.
He was audibly calling out and was visible.
They didn't wish ill on him, but they did let him die.
The armed people didn't really have skin in the game.
The rules were supposed to have changed after Columbine.
Here, police did go in, but they never went as far as actually engaging the shooter.
Compare it to scenarios where single officers or civilians “ran to the guns” engaged, and won.
It is almost certain that victims bled out while the police waited.
I just want to say this about the “last Responders” I have never seen such cowardice and delay.This should have been confronted in 15 MINUTES!! NOT 3 HOURS!! WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU DOING? These overpaid quivering cowboy actors are indirectly responsible for every death and wounding after 15 minutes in. I have no respect for them and they have gone down as the worsts police reaction in our countries history. Go get real safe jobs jack asses but know this !! YOU BLEW IT!!
Take a look at this:
It looks to me as if people on the scene used the contact with the shooter (phone contact) as a way to delay and minimize risk to the responders.
They did not know how many were wounded and bleeding out in the bathroom, at least at first, but there are reports of cell phone messages getting out.
They did know, early on, that this was a jihadi attack. Of course, political correctness, from the President down, has made it policy, for years, to not accept an attack as an Islamic one, unless there is a paid up membership card, verified, on the attackers person at the time of the attack.
We know jihadi attacks are deadly, and they need to be disrupted quickly.
What we do not know, is if any shots were fired after the initial police responders were told to wait for SWAT. I suspect there were. But going up against a barracaded homicidal jihadi with hostages is a lot to ask.
A serious question is: Why did the officers at the scene hesitate and call to HQ to ask if they should proceed? It sounds as if they were hoping for orders to wait.