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Posted on 07/26/2017 10:30:59 PM PDT by Robwin
That’s it? That’s all you got?
It’s a shame you spew YOUR views here. Anyone born here is an “American”, just with a hyphen qualifier?
Sorry spud. Don’t buy it.
Burleson was obviously guilty of something but nothing that justifies 70 years in a Federal prison. More like a year or two max. So there must be something else to what was done, and so far, my reasoning is far, far more likely to be right then yours...oh wait, you couldn’t advance ANY theory of why she imposed such a horrific sentence, could you? You were just puzzled by it.
Really sorry if the truth about it sears your soul so much.
“Anyone born here is an “American”, just with a hyphen qualifier?”
Yep! ANYONE born in the USA is an American born, and you can’t look down on them or deny them jobs based on your Northern European blood!
“oh wait, you couldn’t advance ANY theory of why she imposed such a horrific sentence, could you? You were just puzzled by it.”
Liar. She’s a big government fan and big government wants revenge. Not a big surprise, either. But being a liberal doesn’t mean you are no longer an American, or that someone’s WASP blood makes them superior to you.
Disagree with the verdict? So do I. But the judge IS an American, and her Cuban-born parents haven’t tainted her blood with centuries of Spanish “whatever it is you believe makes Spaniards evil”.
Disagreeing with her beliefs is one thing. Disagreeing with her genetics is another. And claiming someone born in America of foreign-born parents is NOT American and not allowed to hold a government position is stupid racism.
“Yep! ANYONE born in the USA is an American born”
Wrong again, chester.
For example, read John Eastman’s well thought out Amicus Curiae brief in Hamdi, discussed here: https://judiciary.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Dr.-Eastman-Testimony.pdf
The status of the children of illegal aliens has NEVER been adjudicated. Some people refer to Wong Kim Ark v. United States, but his parents were legally admitted aliens. Many people disagree even with that, as his parents never naturalized, but at least were admitted legally.
But there have been a number of bills since the early 1990’s to clarify the 14th Amendment on that point, the latest one being HR 140 by Steve King (the Heroic Steve King I should say):
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr140/summary
Trump has made this one of his priorities too. Recall last year when this was a top campaign item.
Read the 14th Amendment sometime. It says, “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof”. The clause is there for a reason. It referes to what national allegiance you have - what nation you are a subject of. So “ANYONE” is not only not true, it’s not even close.
We have had many discussions about this on FR over the last 17 years. I’ve been on most of them. You need to pay attention, and not use the La Raza propaganda outlets for your information.
But the judge IS an American, and her Cuban-born parents haven’t tainted her blood with centuries of Spanish “whatever it is you believe makes Spaniards evil”.
Believe what you want. Yours is the uninformed opinion of the willfully blind.
As for the slur about Northern Europeans believing they are “superior”, well, I certainly believe that Northern European societies are far superior to pretty much the entire planet. If that isn’t true, how come everyone wants to come to where we live?!
But as for Spain being evil, you have to understand that I have ancestors who fought at St. Augustine and remember the massacre at Matanzas - history I’m sure you don’t know - and every war since then that we fought to beat back their murderous forces, bound the annhilate any Protestant, but especially Huguenot and Anglican Protestants.
And this is who made America pal. We remember. “Cruel and unusual punishment...”
And finally....
“And claiming someone born in America of foreign-born parents is NOT American and not allowed to hold a government position is stupid racism”
You really are confused, aren’t you? Even the U.S. government goes to great pains to point out that “hispanics can be any race...” . Men from Spain have predominantly Atlantic Modal Haplotype alleles - but with some North African in the South, from the days of Andalusia - which are the same as Western France and the British Isles. So what “race” are you referring to? The famous Raza Cosmica, the Mestizos? Navarro ain’t one of them.
You argue from emotion and preconception based on 1960s civil rights rhetoric, a product of the ACLU and the Frankfurt school. My arguments are informed by an understanding of the original Americans, and a clear picture of the underlying attitudes of the Spanish descended Central and South Americans.
Mine is the more solid underpinning for rational debate.
Taking something that does not belong to you is stealing.
If you go to someone else’s land and take their hay bales to feed your cows, you are stealing. Letting your cows graze on land that you do not own, that you have not paid to for the right to graze there, is taking the fodder and feed from that land and that land owner. That food has value and could have been sold to others via grazing fees.
Bundy was taking something that did not belong to him, from land that he did not own, without permission to do so. That is stealing - period.
I read through this thread and all I have to say is people need to read up on the decades of back story. More than just the Bundy’s are involved and decades of government bureaucracy and possible overreach and hurt egos and both Constitutional and Unconstitutional actions have occurred. I think people would have a more informed judgment if they knew a bit more of the full story and not just throw down the gauntlet over procedural and legal arguments while downplaying the livelihoods and personal dramas involved. The Hammond family saga in Oregon is really egregious actions have been taken by the government...
Here are some link that tells a bit of the tale. It is quite a long read but worth it.
I think this will be appealed.
If you would like more information about what's happening in Oregon, please FReepmail me.
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"But, he claimed, when the territory became a state, the government turned that land over to the sovereignty of the state of Nevada, and thus the federal government lacks the power to control it today."
Bundy's claim looses it validity when you examine the Nevada state constitution and realize that their state constitution specifically releases any rights to the land and recognizes the US Government as retaining ownership over the land.
From the Nevada State Constitution: Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States ; and that lands belonging to citizens of the United States, residing without the said state, shall never be taxed higher than the land belonging to the residents thereof; and that no taxes shall be imposed by said state on lands or property therein belonging to, or which may hereafter be purchased by, the United States, unless otherwise provided by the congress of the United States.
All I have heard is that the only guns that were trained on the feds were by paid informants for the feds
Sixty Eight Years in Prison for Scaring & Bullying Federal Agents. I’m hoping President Trump is letting this play out and then has his pardon pen at the ready.
This is a dreadful miscarriage of justice.
The case has been watched closely as it marked another round between the federal government and those who believe public lands should be transferred to local control
Had this been an article about blacks protesting police brutality, or about SEIU unionists demanding higher wages for hotel workers, or about any other "oppressed" group using public roadways, parks and property to express their grievances, the front-page story would have been one sympathetic to the demonstrators. And the word "believe" would not have appeared anywhere in the story.
There are those of us who cling to the proposition that the United States Constitution, along with the Bill of Rights, defines the limits of federal power and is not a "living document" as some might think. We do not "believe" federal landholdings in the western states are contrary to the specific wording of Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. They are contrary, and need to be relinquished to the respective States or sold to the highest bidder.
Easterners, who pretty much dominate the executive branch and Congress, are absolutely clueless when it comes to trying to eke out a living in the Great American Desert and having to comply with endless regulations, restrictions and limitations imposed by faceless Washington bureaucrats who have never traveled west of the Mississippi except as tourists.
It's time for a change.
Robert LaVoy Finicum got whacked by the federal government, too.
WACO, RUBY RIDGE TOO !!!
"...Waco and Ruby Ridge, too..."
You have cut through the reams of BEE ESS and gotten right to the root of the issue. Looking up “Sage Brush Rebellion” can also lead one to information worthy of knowing. The mere fact that twelve Western States were treated differently at statehood regarding public lands, than the other States forming the Republic should have been declared UNCONSTITUTIONAL decades ago.
Bundy’s claim looses it validity when you examine the Nevada state constitution and realize that their state constitution specifically releases any rights to the land and recognizes the US Government as retaining ownership over the land.
See my 114! No State East of the Rockies has more than 5% of their public lands in Federal Control. The twelve western States have anywhere from fifty percent to 90% in Federal hands. How would you like to run a State Government when most of your resources are tied up in Federal Control and unusable, non-taxable, and useless. Not only that but your citizens are paying the Fed to maintain them such as the maintenance is.
Sounds familiar....
Looks like he took the standoff further than he now regrets. Too late....like too many who don’t think before they act.
However 68 yrs is way over the top....
... and this changes the state constitution of Nevada ... how?
and this changes the state constitution of Nevada ... how?
Constitutions have consequences. I seem to recall that wording in other state Constitutions, even ones who were granted the promised public lands.
Not sure if that wording was forced on the Western States to account for the fact their lands were withheld at Statehood unlike the enabling acts adhered to with Eastern States. I certainly would have taken issue with that wording in a State Constitution as it was a clear indication they were red headed stepchildren when it came to equal treatment under the law and were being screwed blue by an agency that did not have the Constitutional authority to do what is was doing. The States are Sovereign regardless of any Supreme Court decision. Unfortunately States have rolled over especially after the 17th Amendment was ratified, not to mention financial blackmail.
More to the points being debated, Mr. Bundy has not refused to pay grazing fees. He just believes the County in question should be receiving them. That is an issue IIRC because the County doesn’t want them, or refuses to be involved thus a bit of a stalemate. I think there is a lot more than meets the eye with the whole situation. IMHO there is no reason whatsoever for the jail time these folks have suffered and will continue to suffer if someone with power and common sense does not intervene in their behalf. Their wives, family, and friends are left holding down their businesses a double punishment when they have not even had their day in court, much less a conviction. A total travesty.
It doesn’t begin to address the murder of Lavoy Finicum who will never have his day in court.
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