Posted on 08/04/2017 12:48:28 PM PDT by DFG
LOL
The fact Pudge says Ryan was trying to keep him off the plate indicts Ryan. That was never intended to be a brush-back pitch. Go watch the pitch again. That was either (A) completely a wild pitch, or (B) intended to hit the batter.
“That was never intended to be a brush-back pitch.”
Why do you say that? Both Ryan and Pudge say it was and they are the ones that are in on the strategy of that part of the game and say it was nothing more than the same thing Ryan had been doing for over 25 years. If they dive at the outside corner, the inside pitch takes it away. It’s a tactic used by pitchers since long before we were born.
Besides, if Ryan really wanted to get him, he’d have throw at his ankles. That’s a favorite tool used by pitchers if they were doing a real payback and not a warning. If a pitcher was going to go after someone, they, at that level, don’t want to kill anyone by hitting them in the head. This isn’t little league, it’s MLB. The pitch was a message, not an attack. But the press builds it up that way to get butts in the seats for the next game.
rwood
>> Why do you say that? <<
Look at the pitch.
Looked at it, again. Ventura started with an open stance and as the pitch came in his right foot stride was over halfway so his front foot was in a closed stance position. At the arrival of the ball his body was still going toward the plate and when he was struck his feet came down on his toes closer to the plate than his right foot started when he was set.
He was going toward the plate and locked himself in to where he couldn’t get out of the way of the ball if he wanted to.
As I said, he was diving at the outside corner which is where he singled in a run earlier. Batters do this and pitchers move them back to protect their part of the plate.
There have been a number of pitchers for years that were notorious for this: Don Drysdale, Dodgers, Lew Burdette, Braves, Bob Gibson, Cardinals. Most of the successful later Braves staff pitched inside, Smoltz, Glavine, and Maddux protected the inside corner. In the earlier days the Dodgers and Giants had a pitcher named Sal Maglie that was nicknamed “The Barber” because he came inside. It is part of the game. The batters want to control the plate and pitchers do too.
And the batters know better, also. In an article from the NY Times Mo Vaughn, former Boston slugger, said he does not resent being pitched inside. ‘’It’s their plate, too,’’ he said. ‘’There’s a difference pitching inside at the chest or belt and at the head. I don’t mind their trying to drive me off the plate. I know what they’re trying to do.’’
Don Baylor, who crowded the plate, in the same article said “They do not try to intimidate hitters. On the contrary, the Colorado manager said: ‘’It’s the reverse. The hitter is intimidating the pitcher with the hard swing. A guy falls down, buttons come flying off. It’s no big deal. But it used to be. If a hitter took that sort of swing against Don Drysdale or Bob Gibson or Stan Williams, to cite a few nasty fireballers, the next pitch would send him flying again — but this time involuntarily.”
And as I was watching the video I took note that the ball struck Ventura close to the elbow of his right arm while it was against his body at the height of the middle of the three on his back, in my sight better than a foot and a half below head level.
These two teams had a history. But that wasn’t one of them.
rwood
I watch baseball. I’m very familiar with a brushback pitch, so no, you don’t have to waste 500 words explaining to me what anyone who’s ever watched a baseball game knows.
You’re also, however, full of nonsense. Ventura started off in the very back of the batter’s box. He briefly opened his stance so much, he might have been out of the box, and then closed it back to normal.
It’s funny you mention Don Baylor. He was the all-time modern leader in getting hit by pitches. He’s defending himself against frequent charges that he’d get himself hit deliberately. There is absolutely nothing Baylor-ish about Ventura’s stance.
As a Mets fan (have mercy on me; we suffer so much), of course I remember Clemens throwing that broken bat at Piazza. I couldn’t believe it then, and I was astonished that he wasn’t summarily tossed out of the game for it. “I thought it was a ball,” indeed.
(Oh, and even if it WAS a ball, WHY would he throw it at the runner?? Hmmm? Yankees. BAH!)
/rant
Regards,
Gibson was as intimidating as hell. He’s one of the main reasons why MLB lowered the mound from 15” to 10”.
Loved the 2000 WS. Born and raised Bronx boy. Watched Joe D, the Mick and Yogi, Scooter........through Jeter, Bernie Williams, Tino, Paul O’Neil through Matsui.
Clemens (who I had little love for except when he won the Yanks games ) tossed the broken shard of a bat and tossed it off the field. He wasn’t aiming for Piazza. And as human beings go, I like Piazza a hell of a lot better than Clemens. I celebrate his induction into the HOF.
Thank you, Vaquero. That is very kind of you to say.
Regards,
Fine. End of conversation. I don’t have to say you are right or wrong on what you saw. I watch baseball is great. But until you are within the game long enough and deep enough to understand from the players standpoint what really happens, having the lying announcers tell you what you are supposed to think is a tarnished part of the game. If the quotes I gave you from the pitcher, the hitter in question, and two other players on the topic that had successful careers to include one, Baylor, that went into managing, that voiced an opinion you disagree with, then we have nothing further to talk about. Enjoy the games.
Oh, better check your records. To show you there’s no hard feelings I will give you some info: Don Baylor is not the “modern” player with the most HBP’s. Craig Biggio from the Astros is. He was hit 18 times more than Baylor in his career.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/HBP_career.shtml
So long,
rwood
fwiw, I said Baylor WAS the player with the most HBP.
Holy. Not the way I’d’ve ever wanted to end this conversation, but since we apparently both admired the guy, I thought I’d tell you this despite your kiss off:
Don Baylor just died. At 68. Of Myeloma. :-(
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