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To: myerson

My Model 50 Winchester (Fudd) 12 gauge is recoil operated, not gas like a Remington 1100. The action of the gun’s kickback ejects the husk and chambers a fresh shell.
Does that make it an evil weapon of death?

We saw this same nonsense with the “plastic handgun that X-rays can’t see!” and the bogus alarm over the 5.56 M855 (or XM, `green tip’) AR rounds: “vest penetrating, cop killers!” And the dreaded ... Black Talon pistol cartridges.
The Glock can be seen on X-rays. Most hunting cartridges, esp. 30 calibers penetrate police vests (be patient, if the argument works here, they will try it again) and Winchester just changed the Black Talon’s name to `Ranger’ ... and then the left lost interest, having seen a squirrel and went away and barked at the moon.

Our grandparents liked Springfield bolt actions, while Dad would use semis and we like modern sporting rifles. Some of us like to waste ammo.
Ignore the outraged goo goos (what are they outraged about anyway? It was people like us that got shot) and they go away. Surrender and we lose. What are the NRA and GOP-e thinking? Who knows.


14 posted on 10/05/2017 3:41:49 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: tumblindice

“My Model 50 Winchester (Fudd) 12 gauge is recoil operated, not gas like a Remington 1100. The action of the gun’s kickback ejects the husk and chambers a fresh shell.
Does that make it an evil weapon of death? ...”

No more an evil weapon of death than any other firearm. They are all “evil weapons of death” to anti-gun types, whose understanding has yet to reach a pre-modern level (they claim objects make people do stuff).

The Winchester 50 is not a recoil-operated shotgun. True recoil operation requires the barrel to move with the bolt. The first true recoil-operated shotgun was the Browning Auto 5 (copied by Remington as the Model 11, and by Savage as the 720 series): long recoil systems all (barrel and bolt go all the way back, barrel goes forward to extract/eject empty shell, bolt then goes forward to chamber a fresh shell).

After a little thought I cannot recall any short-recoil shotguns. Short recoil is the province of machine guns (Maxim, Vickers, Browning, MG-34, MG-42, Furrer, Lahti Saloranta (?) and some others), and handguns (Colt Government, Luger, Walther, Beretta etc): bolt and barrel move back a little, barrel stops, bolt continues back, extracting/ejecting empty case; bolt goes forward, chambering a fresh round and pushing barrel to forward position.

The Model 50 is a blowback action, sort of: chamber is separate from barrel and is blown back (shell inside) by gas pressure when the shotgun fires. Chamber then stops, bolt continues on back, extracts/ejects empty shell, then it goes forward, chambering a fresh shell and pushing the chamber back into its forward position.

Other common arms with a movable chamber are Colt’s Ace (also its 22/45 conversion) and Remington’s 550 rifle. Both were rimfires: The moving chamber design was used to impart sufficient energy to the bolt (slide, in the Ace) to cycle the action.

Benelli’s M1 Super 90 is often called a short recoil action but is not. Benelli themselves call it an “inertia” system or something similar. The recoil of firing compresses a short, stout, very stiff spring, which then expands, unlocking the bolt and cycling the action. Barrel is fixed.

Recoil-operated shoulder arms have been on the way out for some years; also recoil-operated machine guns. They are more costly to make, and take more maintenance to keep them running. Maintenance of a more skilled sort too.

Two of the best-known recoil-operated rifles were Remington’s Model 8 (and 81: same gun, different stock; long recoil) and Melvin M Johnson’s M1941 rifle - just about the only recoil-operated military rifle ever built. It was touted as superior to John C Garand’s M1, but was not: exploded diagrams for both the Remington 8 and the Johnson 1941 are a complex maze of little parts, and the takedown procedures make a technician dizzy.


20 posted on 10/05/2017 6:17:56 PM PDT by schurmann
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