Posted on 10/09/2017 9:46:00 PM PDT by TBP
I was one of Trump’s first supporters, right here on FR.
I am American. I flew home, and voted. I was one of 10,000 Trump voters, who put him over the top, in Michigan.
I will say what I think. And I think it is very important, for Trump to do what he has said so many times, to build up America once again.
Put a sock in your condescending nonsense.
Thanks.
I wasn't being condescending. That was a direct rebuke of your pissy attitude toward my President.
I think it is very important, for Trump to do what he has said so many times, to build up America once again.
No one disagrees with that, but you make it sound like Trump has broken his promises, and is doing nothing to fulfil them. If that's what you're saying, it's a despicable lie, which I will object to every time I see it.
Faulting the President for not having delivered on every campaign promise in his first eight months on the job, just makes you look ridiculous.
Cruz stated his deep abiding love for welcoming immigrants in his explanation for voting down the Sessions amendment. Cruz also stated his deep desire to bring illegals "out of the shadows" and into the loving arms of "Permanent Legal Status." That sounds like he pretty much looks at them as two groups he wants MORE of.
As for the rest of your post, I can't help but to think you work for the Cruz campaign, as only a Cruz staffer would be willing to demean themselves to this degree.
Trump was out-and-out pro-amnesty until he decided to run for president.
I'm not sure if that's true, but I also don't care, since Trump has never lied about it, and in any case he wanted it tied to border security--just like Cruz, and unlike Cruz, his position shifted right, and the entire party to the right, thereafter.
Cruz actually made himself look worse because, instead of coming clean, since even Rush Limbaugh in 2013 favored Cruz's official pro-legalization position, provided there was border enforcement combined with blocking them from citizenship. It was not a radical position, even though we all know it was a shitty position. Scott Walker was basically singing the same exact tune, even using Cruz's own language when dealing with the media--which made me think the GOPe got together to decide on talking points to cover their legalization desire. Unlike Trump, Cruz was still hedging his bets on legalization even AFTER he said on the debate stage that he "never supported legalization" despite all his prior statements.
Trump did lie about his views on amnesty. And he was pro-amnesty until he started to run for president. I can give you quotes to prove it.
But you worship at the altar of Trump, so none of it will make any difference to you.
And you know very well that you’re not telling the truth about Senator Cruz’s position, again, not that it makes one whit of difference to you.
Frnakly, you argue like a liberal does.
Literally your whole post was a liberal's post, accusing Trump of lying about his position on immigration, attacking me personally, and then saying I am lying about some unspecific fact about Cruz, when I've substantiated and proven every word I've said, while you, the retard, just keep repeating yourself in the face of it.
If a guy lied, he lied, and Trump lied about his immigration views. He pretended to be against amnesty, but he was pro-amnesty.
Here is Senator Cruz’s position as of June 2013:
“This Gang of Eight bill is a disaster. It is the exact same thing we saw in 1986. The last big immigration reform was in 1986, and the federal government told the American people, we’re gonna grant amnesty for the three million people who are here illegally. And in exchange for that we’re actually gonna secure the borders. We’re gonna solve illegal immigration, and the problem is gonna go away.
“Now, we saw what happened. The amnesty happened, the borders never got secured, and now three decades later, instead of three million people, it’s 11 million people.
“11 million, 12 million. We don’t have an exact number, but it is three to four times bigger than what it was in 1986, and we’re hearing the exact same empty promises. What the Gang of Eight bill does is it grants legalization now. It takes everyone who’s here illegally and says, “You’re legal,” and then just like in 1986 it promises, “sometime in the future, trust us, wink-wink, we’ll secure the border.” I don’t think the American people are that foolish. You know, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. If this bill is enacted, it will make the problem worse. If this bill is enacted, in another decade or two we’re gonna be back here not with 11 million, but with 20 million or 30 million people here illegally. This is a broken system. I think what Americans want is fix the problem, stop playing political games, actually secure the border and make a legal immigration system that works.
“Well, the Democrats want this for pure politics. Chuck Schumer was very candid in the Senate Judiciary Committee when he said, “If there is no citizenship, there can be no reform.” This is all about their endeavor. They want to grant amnesty, and they hope to get a lot more Democratic voters, or they want this to be voted down and use it as a political issue in 2014 and 2016.
“On the Republican side, sadly, a lot of the support of it is political as well. You know, after 2012, all of the Washington political consultants and all the mainstream media came to Republicans and said, “You’ve got to do better with Hispanics, and the way to do better with Hispanics is to embrace amnesty.” And, look, a lot of Republicans in Washington were scared. I gotta tell you, I think that political argument is complete nonsense. If you look at the last time we enacted amnesty in 1986, the next election was 1988, the Republican share of the Hispanic vote went down. It is not the case — Hispanics are not the single-issue, monolithic voters.”
I see nothing there that is incompatible with what he is saying now. And furthermore, Cruz (with a couple of others) led the fight against the bill — and put up a petition against it.
Meanwhile, here is Donald Trump’s position as of A FEW MONTHS AGO (2015):
(July 26)
“Now, a lot of these people are helping us, whether it’s the grapes, or whether it’s jobs, and sometimes it’s jobs, in all fairness, I love our country, but sometimes it’s jobs that a citizen of the United States doesn’t want to do. I mean, there are jobs that a lot of people don’t want to do. I want to move them out, and we’re going to move them back in.
“I mean, a lot of people don’t understand that, but the DREAMers, it’s a tough situation, we’re going to do something, and one of the things we’re going to do is expedite — when somebody’s terrific, we want them back here.
“I have to tell you: Some of these people have been here, they’ve done a good job. You know, in some cases, sadly, they’ve been living under the shadows. ... If somebody’s been outstanding, we try and work something out.”
[The article continues] This is in line with what CNN’s Chris Moody reported Trump saying during a press conference in Chicago at the end of June. When asked what he would do about the illegal immigrants already residing in the country once the border was secured, Trump replied, “give them a path,” according to Moody.
https://soundcloud.com/glennbeck/beck-blitz-donald-trumppro-amnesty
(As of July 14)
http://liberteanow.us/2015/07/14/2601/
Trump: You have to give them a path. You have 20 million, 30 million, nobody knows what it is. It used to be 11 million. Now, today I hear it’s 11, but I don’t think it’s 11. I actually heard you probably have 30 million. You have to give them a path, and you have to make it possible for them to succeed. You have to do that.
(As of August 10 — remember all these dates on the Trump quotes are 2015!)
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/422351/donald-trump-immigration-amnesty-build-wall
“Asked about his immigration ideas on CNN, Trump was a mess, beginning with the old “jobs Americans won’t do” canard favored by open-borders proponents (a canard because it always leaves out the relevant qualifier: “at current wages”), then suggesting that we should deport the millions of illegals who are already here only to turn around and bring them back (”I want to move them out, and we’re going to move them back in, and let them be legal.” This process would include those brought here as young children, who will be deported and recycled based on the criterion of whether they are — Trump’s word — “terrific.” What might constitute a federal terrificness standard remains unclear. “We’re going to do something,” Trump said. “I’ve been giving it so much thought. You know you have a, on a humanitarian basis, you have a lot of deep thought going into this, believe me. I actually have a big heart.”
[The article continues] Deporting some 11 million illegals who have for many years evaded deportation only to reimport them under an expedited legal immigration system, the contours of which currently are undefined, and then granting them some sort of permanent legal status is simply another variation on amnesty, and a complicated, expensive, and thick-headed version of amnesty at that. Like the proposed reform program of 2007, which would have purportedly required illegals to be present in their country of origin when applying for legal status, this isn’t just amnesty — it’s also amnesty-laundering.
These are pro-amnesty positions Trump took as recently as 2015! By contrast, Ted Cruz fought the amnesty bill in the U.S. Senate years ago.
Correct! Neither do I, but it's because I understand what Cruz is saying. Cruz defines amnesty to be anything that involves granting citizenship, which is not what his legalization does:
http://www.kausfiles.com/2015/05/21/cruz-and-amnesty-round-ii-the-telltale-video/
Cruz clearly states that his amendment was for the purpose of granting permanent legal residence.
Cruz's own spokesman in 2015 described it as "an effort 'to improve a very bad bill' that [Cruz] ultimately opposed."
IOW, he wasn't just lying to Congress that he well and truly wanted his amendment to pass. Once his amendment failed, which would have granted permanent legal residence to all illegals short of citizenship--albeit with border security, he opposed it.
In September, 3 months after your quotes, Cruz even explained the words you quoted by stressing "that he had never tried to undo the goal of allowing them to stay," and even claimed Mitt Romney's position was too hardcore!:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/us/cruz-tries-to-claim-the-middle-ground-on-immigration.html?_r=2
So when Cruz stated that he had "never supported legalization," he was lying.
Meanwhile, here is Donald Trump’s position as of A FEW MONTHS AGO (2015)
I'm not really very interested here in debating whether "making them leave and come back in" through a legal process is going to be "touch back amnesty", where you just stop at an embassy and then run back over, or whether they'd go through the same vetting as everyone else.
In any case, it is still a superior position to Cruz, especially when one considers the tremendous cuts to immigration Trump will accomplish if allowed to reform the system. Bonus points in that you failed to demonstrate how Trump is "lying".
Cruz didn't even want to tell us what his position was 90% of the time!:
CHUCK TODD: You still didn't say what you'd do with the 11 million.
TED CRUZ: Well, my view is first, we secure the borders and solve the problem of illegal immigration. And then I think we can have a conversation about what to do about the people who remain here. I don't think the American people will accept any solution until we demonstrate step number one, we can secure the border.
CHUCK TODD: So anything's on the table? Potentially deportation or not deportation, but anything's on the table for the 11 million--
TED CRUZ: I think we should secure the border and then have a conversation at that point. Stop using the Washington approach of I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today. The American people aren't going for it.
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/07/05/ted-flops-cruz-falls-asked-solve-immigration-problem.html
None of that supports your claim. As those quotes I posted show, Ted Cruz was an opponent of any form of amnesty. Trump has been in favor of it.
lol you are really embarrassing.
This thread is devolving into madness in my opinion.
Don’t blame me!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.