Manafort Sent to Jail After Judge Cancels House Arrest

Manafort being put in jail has nothing to do with Ted Cruz.

Your Cruz Derangement Syndrome is showing.

Some people just can’t let it go. Seek professional help. Stop crapping all over FR threads with your Cruz madness.

It is a crying shame that this forum lost thousands of valuable contributors primarily due to this very issue. It was impossible for the forum monitors to police all of the heated arguments between Cruz supporters and Trump supporters during the primaries. And there was certainly fault from both groups, and people from both groups got suspended over heated posts. Unfortunately many of these members never returned.

And it is people like you who just will not stop posting this crap that is the problem.

I will remind you that the owner of this forum was at one time a supporter of Ted Cruz. I imagine he probably still supports him as a senator.

Further, even Donald Trump, at one point, suggested he might consider Cruz for his Vice Presidential pick. Proud Cruz scoffed at this and blew his one and only shot at the white house.

There is a difference between simply stating history, like why Manafort was hired, versus posting and rehashing all the nastiness of the Republican primary. Trump nicknamed Cruz as “Lyin’ Ted” as part of an aggressive primary strategy. He does NOT call him that NOW. Ted Cruz is one of the few solidly conservative senators we have. And it is way, way, way past time to bury the hatchet and move on.

But if you can’t, then be prepared for further responses from conservatives like me who are sick and tired of it.

There are thousands, if not millions, of Cruz supporters TODAY who want to continue to see him succeed as a conservative senator from Texas. We picked him to replace left-leaning Kay Bailey Hutchison when the GOPe wanted an establishment Republican. He was our Tea Party candidate. We fought hard to get him in. And we are not going to kick him to the curb over the primary issues.

And one last point. Hillary said that there could have been one worse Republican presidential candidate: Ted Cruz. And that’s because he was the only candidate more ideologically opposed to liberalism. (Of course if she could have it to do over, she would have loved to go up against Cruz because they probably would have steamrolled him. But that’s another matter.)

We’re all glad around here that Trump won the primary and the presidency. Most of us are glad that Ted Cruz is still a senator and has not been replaced by some milquetoast facsimile of a conservative. We’ve got more of those than we can handle.

Now, don’t be worse than a sore loser by being a sore winner, and let it go.

Manafort being put in jail has very much to do with the campaign strategy of Ted Cruz.

Cruz was claiming wins and then taking delegates repeatedly in states that he lost. He was going to cost Trump the nomination.

1. Had Cruz accepted his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place losses in multiple states he would not have attempted to steal Trump’s delegates.

2. Had Cruz’s campaign not proceeded to cost Trump delegates, Trump could have continued with Corey Lewandowski as the campaign boss.

3. Instead, Trump hired Paul Manafort to stop the bleed and defend his hard won delegates.

4. As soon as Manafort became involved with Trump’s campaign, a huge target was on Paul’s back. The Ukranian / Russian accusations began.

5. Had Paul not been involved with Trump, it is very unlikely he would have been targeted for an attack.

6. It is Manafort’s association with Trump and the 2016 campaign that has just cost him his freedom.

7. Manafort was doing some other work when he was summoned by Trump or perhaps Roger Stone to stop the delegate theft in 3/2016. Paul could have turned Trump down and kept about his business cruising under the radar.Manafort being put in jail has very much to do with the campaign strategy of Ted Cruz. Cruz was claiming and then taking delegates repeatedly in states that he lost.

1. Had Cruz accepted his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place losses in multiple states he would not have attempted to steal the winner- Trump’s delegates.

2. Had his campaign not proceeded to cost Trump delegates, Trump could have continued with Corey Lewandowski as the campaign boss.

3. Instead he hired Paul Manafort to keep and defend his hard won delegates.

4. As soon as Manafort became involved with Trump’s campaign, Paul had a huge target on his back. The Ukranian / Russian accusations began.

5. Had Paul not been involved with Trump, it is very unlikely he would have been targeted.

6. It is Manafort’s role (to stop delegate theft) in the 2016 that has just cost him his freedom.

7. I really hope and pray that this is not his fate

Just because he is YOUR senator does not mean you must defend all of his antics or wrongs. Lil Marco is one of my senators and I don’t defend or attempt to legitimize his nonsense, nor that of Republican Gov. Rick Scott.

It’s only considered ‘crap’ by you because you can not handle the truth. These are facts. Through the research and compilation of data completed by the ‘Green Papers Elections website, anyone can verify the truth. They record exact state voting totals, delegates allotted per candidate and the aftermath of those delegates pledges to go ‘rogue’ and disenfranchise the primary voters.

What is true is-—This primary election ‘crap’ needs to stop. People get outraged when their votes are nullified by cheaters that flip, bribe, or otherwise coerce sworn delegates to ‘flip-off’ the people’s choice.

Trump should not have had to bring in Paul Manafort to keep his winnings. A win IS a win- not a loss.

Likewisw, cheating is one of the main reasons that some of the Bernie Sanders voters switched to Trump, particularly the Christian black men originally for Sanders. They were getting really ticked off with Hillary outright stealing delegates from those Bernie had won. They heard and watched Trump going through the same thing with Cruz and jumped on the Trump train out of disgust with the primary process.

What you may rationalize as campaign general nastiness-crap, many others view as unethical -illegal election tampering—fraud.

“Just because he is YOUR senator does not mean you must defend all of his antics or wrongs.”

I did not defend his “antics”. I defended that he is one of the few reliably conservative votes in the senate. He is also someone who is supporting Trump’s CONSERVATIVE agenda, which the Democrats and establishment Republicans are NOT.

“It’s only considered ‘crap’ by you because you can not handle the truth.”

No. Bringing up Cruz to bash him two years after the primaries, when it is completely unrelated to the issue, is crap. It is hijacking the thread because you got TRIGGERED like a mindless, liberal zombie. Snap out of it. Time for critical thinking skills.

“Christian black men originally for Sanders. They were getting really ticked off with Hillary outright stealing delegates from those Bernie had won. They heard and watched Trump going through the same thing with Cruz and jumped on the Trump train out of disgust with the primary process.”

Trump got about 10% of Bernie supporters. They were mostly white. It is entirely speculative the degree to which the feeling of being cheated played a part in this. However, at the end of the Republican primary, Trump was the first pick of about 38% of Republican-leaning voters. Cruz came in second at about 15% as the first choice. In the end Trump HAD to carry Cruz supporters to win. And that is the same thing I pointed out back when Trump won the nomination. It was stupid for Cruz to withhold his endorsement for so long. It was stupid for ANY Cruz supporters to NOT vote for Trump. It was stupid for Cruz supporters to leave Free Republic. And it was also stupid for initial Trump supporters to continue their nastiness toward Cruz supporters even after the primary was over. Trump got it. He buried the hatchet and moved on. But a lot of his supporters did not. And you are on of them. Time to move on.

“What you may rationalize as campaign general nastiness-crap, many others view as unethical -illegal election tampering—fraud.”

Cruz went to extremes to try to get the nomination, even pushing for a contested convention, which would probably have been disastrous regardless of the final outcome. Conventions are supposed to unify the party with a goal of building momentum toward the election. The primary system is complicated and out-of-touch with ordinary voters. Cruz exploited some of this similarly to Trump or any smart candidate pursuing electoral college votes versus the popular vote. And yes, Manafort was brought in to help Trump address the complexities of this system.

Trump went on the offense toward Cruz. He had to get very aggressive to win. He may have complained about the exploitation of the delegate system as “unfair” or even “dishonest” or “rigged”, but I’ve never heard anyone claim it was illegal.

The only related issue which he challenged the legality of is if the GOP were to change the rules at the convention in order to prevent him from being nominated. The Democrats pulled shenanigans on that level to select Hillary. In the end, the matter of such tactics being illegal was never challenged in court because they did not happen in the GOP convention, and no one on the Democrat side was willing to risk assassination, ala Seth Rich / John Podesta, in order to challenge Hillary’s nomination.

“Manafort being put in jail has very much to do with the campaign strategy of Ted Cruz.”

You are out of your mind. No one on this forum is going to agree with your proposition that Manafort being in jail is somehow the fault of Ted Cruz. Manafort is not in trouble over anything he did in this past election. That’s like arguing that because you had to cover a shift for another employee at work, when you were in a car wreck during your commute, your absent coworker should be financially liable. It’s ludicrous. No rational person believes such a thing.

Your personal grudge against Cruz is like being in the middle of frontline combat and having a fellow soldier in the same foxhole get upset over another soldier’s body odor. Does what Cruz did stink? Perhaps. Does it matter right now? No. What matters is the real enemy is lobbing grenades our direction, and you want to smell armpits.

Stop beating a dead horse and move on.

I never wrote or implied that Manafort was being prosecuted for his actions within the Trump campaign (Despite wishful thinking by libs). But it is because of this relationship that Paul sits in jail and they are leaning on him in a futile attempt to destroy the Trump presidency.

You must admit that without Ted Cruz’s role in stealing Trump delegates that there would have been absolutely no need to drag Paul Manafort into Trump’s campaign. Why do you think they are specifically targeting Manafort when so many others have conducted the same type of overseas business? What do they really want from Manafort other than dirt on Trump?

Donald Trump was doing great-> winning & winning. All was well above the board. But his winning didn’t count because the bounty of delegates was being raided under the wire. Is it technically illegal? No -because federal election authorities do not meddle or monitor individual state party primary elections. (However, what is being done to flip delegates may in some cases be illegal as there are laws in place.)

What was done by both Cruz and Clinton in terms of delegates was ethically wrong and unscrupulous and it damages the faith and integrity of the election process as well as the party who allows this crap. When the process becomes so rigged and corrupt there is no reason to even hold a primary election. Why bother if our votes are tossed in the garbage and party bosses or particular candidates move in to ‘buy’ their delegates. When a candidate repeatedly breaks the rules, what is his opponent to do? Hiire political legal guns for each and every state? Some states are just fine, others are notoriously corrupt and have been in prior elections.

The challenge from Trump regarding legalities of the rules violations never materialized because TeamCruz did not succeed overall in their efforts. The Never Trumpers sent to undermine the delegate convention were ineffective and offset by Manafort. Trump held his ground.

In terms of the grudge, well I have never been suspended or threatened with suspension because I refrain from personal attacks. During the election process, it was me that generally posted raw election data and results as tallied through the Green Papers awesome website. My commentary purposefully highlighted and exposed discrepancies from what candidate’s had reported and the actual live results. I also posted some (D) state primary results whereby Sanders had won 50 delegates and Hillary ripped all but 3! Also, I posted state party rules and how they were being followed or sometimes -not followed. It was enlightening to many here.

And about the grudge- it is against the globalization of the oval office. As soon as his background revealed Cruz did not meet the NBC constitutional requirement to become president, his constitutional conservatism spiel was delegitimized. Oh Canada! eh? or Oh Cuba, aye carrumba

Bringing up the historicity of the reason Manafort was brought into Trump’s campaign is related to this article. That part is relevant.

But your obsession with using this to parlay the discussion over into Ted Cruz and your chronic Ted Derangement Syndrome is the problem.

Ted Cruz did not write the rules on how delegates are chosen. Certainly it is a worthy discussion of how the Republican party should fix the process. Maybe even laws need to be passed to address what happened in the Democrat party as well. Primary voters DO get highly upset when they perceive the system as “rigged”. And it does appear to be so that the uniparty can hold onto power at all cost.

“You must admit that without Ted Cruz’s role in stealing Trump delegates that there would have been absolutely no need to drag Paul Manafort into Trump’s campaign. “

No. I don’t. I don’t think it is relevant. I think the premise of your query is beyond biased by your TDS. And like I’ve said for a couple of years, Trump needs Cruz supporters, and Trump supporters would do Trump a favor to follow his lead and drop the issue of the wrongdoings of Ted Cruz in the primary, whether they are real or merely perceived.

The same people who want to destroy Manafort and Donald Trump, also want to destroy Ted Cruz. Why would any Trump supporters want to help them do that?

The intra-party infighting was a bloodbath. This rarely helps a party candidate. But it did help Trump a little because he was an outsider.

For him to win in 2020, we need to avoid this infighting. Stirring up a grudge that literally cost this forum thousands of valuable members is NOT going to be helpful. Quite a few of them wanted me to join them on another forum they started. I chose to stay with FR because this is my conservative home. I don’t participate on other similar forums.

“In terms of the grudge, well I have never been suspended or threatened with suspension because I refrain from personal attacks.”

Well... except for attacks on Ted Cruz. But he is not a member of this forum. So I guess you’ve got that.

“During the election process, it was me that generally posted raw election data and results as tallied through the Green Papers awesome website. My commentary purposefully highlighted and exposed discrepancies from what candidate’s had reported and the actual live results. I also posted some (D) state primary results whereby Sanders had won 50 delegates and Hillary ripped all but 3! Also, I posted state party rules and how they were being followed or sometimes -not followed. It was enlightening to many here.”

And that makes you a valuable member of this community. Don’t undermine it by obsessing over Ted Cruz. I just now noticed that you signed up in March of 2016. So I think you might be unfamiliar with the history and background of this site. It goes back to before George W. Bush was elected. It goes back to before the Tea Party movement was formed. FR was instrumental in that movement. And Ted Cruz became a senator through a hard-fought battle with GOPe who wanted an establishment Republican (aka RINO) to have that seat.

Ted Cruz has made some bad choices on a number of occasions, both in the presidential campaign and as a senator. However, he is on the right side of the fight. The biggest concern around here is about his globalism tendencies. Hopefully, he has gained some experience and this will show through more wise choices in these areas in the future. Conservatives have no reservation with holding his feet to the fire to do the right thing. If he wanders from the path of conservatism, he will hear from us. But he is one of the few who are holding the line on immigration. He is also helping the president force a more reasonable resolution to the illegal immigration crisis. Without people like him in the senate (and there are only a few), the president would be forced to work with the liberals to get anything done. He would already be in a position of a lame duck president.

“NBC”

I’m not even going to repeat your full quote here. The natural born citizen issue has been hashed to death here. And this is a textbook case of hijacking a thread. Now highjacking a thread is not a crime, but it is in very poor taste when it is too rehash old wounds in an intra-party fight that could undermine President Trump NOW.

I have posted many long and well-researched comments on this subject when it was relevant. The only thing I will add here is that President Trump suggested the possibility of Ted Cruz being his vice president. That office has the same requirements as president. So bringing up that issue here and now goes beyond beating a dead horse. You’re dragging a putrid, smelly, dead horse behind your parade float and wondering why everyone is holding there noses.

Go back to your informative and helpful posts on relevant facts. Drop the TDS. Really. Move on.

So you don’t understand that Manafort’s persecution is related to his involvement with the Trump campaign. We see things entirely different. Manafort’s dealings with POTUS is what makes him a highly relevant target to Trump’s enemies.

FR: The purge list of members from this forum was listed as a thread a long time ago. It appeared to primarily be Cruz supporters and it was in the dozens, not thousands, as I recall. Some of them have likely apologized and been accepted back in the fold.

What you perceive as ‘personal attacks on a candidate- Cruz’ I see as sharing the truth and statement of facts. Again, we disagree and you take it personal with all the TDS references, which I laugh off. As far as damaging either politician...I doubt anyone really gives a hoot about our lil debate at the end of an old thread. You are free to post on any topic you wish, just like everyone else here, even me.

Dead horse stink: Regarding POTUS desiring Ted to be his VP? That was very early in the game. It was prior to Trump getting to really know Ted and his family origins.

It was prior to some Dallas paper or Breitbart (I forgot) publishing Rafael Sr. & Eleanor Cruz’s names on the voting rolls in Alberta, Canada before Ted’s birth. And it was before the realization that Cubnadian Pops did not request US citizenship until Ted was working in the Bush WH in 2005. And it was prior to Ted spending 18 months to rescind his Canadian citizenship and sanitize the Cruz-fam Canadian file after being exposed by the Dallas newsgroup in 2014 or 2015.

It’s doubtful the same people who wish to destroy Trump fear Cruz or aim to destroy him. He is an offshoot of the Bush league and would be cooperative player to achieve his wealth & power- just like all the rest of them.

And I am familiar with some of the history of FR and have witnessed much of the disappointment brought on from Tea Party candidates that changed or disguised their true intentions. That’s politics. ;-)

“So you don’t understand that Manafort’s persecution is related to his involvement with the Trump campaign. We see things entirely different.”

Do you know what the term “straw man argument” means?

Look it up. It is your post etched in stone.

AND that is NOT what I called you out for. I do not mind a history lesson about how Manafort came to be part of Trump’s campaign. But the name-calling, the bringing up of the natural born citizen issue ARE 100% irrelevant to the Manafort story.

They have no bearing. The left is attacking Manafort simply as an indirect way to attack Trump. And because Manafort is not squeaky clean, they are going to treat him like the Russians treat their political dissidents. The left LOVES the Russian way of doing things politically. They only pretend to be outraged at a made-up hoax.

“What you perceive as ‘personal attacks on a candidate- Cruz’ I see as sharing the truth and statement of facts.”

It’s unrelated, outdated, stale old smelly rehashed garbage.

It’s like going to a supposed friend with bandaged up wounds and ripping off the dressing and pouring alcohol on them.

I knew way back then that this Ted Derangement Syndrome was a severe mental issue. But even then I never would have believed there would be practitioners still exhibiting symptoms TWO YEARS later.

“That was very early in the game. It was prior to Trump getting to really know Ted and his family origins.”

It was on January 15, 2016, before things got rather nasty. People had been questioning Cruz over the NBC issue. Trump did not. He indicated that he was supportive of Cruz even to the point of considering him for the vice presidency, but would be concerned that legal challenge could hamper the campaign. Cruz retorted that Trump could be his vice president and if Cruz was ever disqualified Trump could then be president. It was kind of a funny exchange, unprecedented in the history of American politics. A lot of people had been hoping for a Trump-Cruz alliance, but that idea soon fell apart. I will note this was over two months before you joined Free Republic. So I think that speaks to your knowledge, ignorance, and possible bias on this matter. Like I pointed out earlier, many members of this forum did a lot of heavy lifting back during the Tea Party days. A lot of us were very worried over Donald Trump’s political donation history and stances on things like Planned Parenthood. He was saying mostly the right things, but we have been burned by politicians so many times many of us doubted whether Trump would follow through. Thank God he has and is.

“It’s doubtful the same people who wish to destroy Trump fear Cruz or aim to destroy him. He is an offshoot of the Bush league and would be cooperative player to achieve his wealth & power- just like all the rest of them.”

This is where your inexperience really stands out. Cruz was the only candidate the establishment despised MORE than Trump. I will grant that Trump’s candidacy gave Cruz some political cover, as did Cruz’s campaign giving Trump some cover. The GOPe strategy is usually to destroy the most conservative-leaning candidates first, and then narrow the field in order to get the weakest, most milquetoast candidate possible. It worked to put McCain and Romney on the ticket the previous two times. But this time, the top two candidates were conservative / outsider material.

I’m not saying that Cruz has a perfect track record, but you have to look at the voting history and the score cards of conservative organizations that all rated Cruz for his votes. Where Trump won a lot of support here is his nationalism over globalism. This was a weak spot for Cruz because he was relying on big donors who were globalists. He obviously had to appeal to them with some policy decisions and commitments. Trump did not. But outside of this, Cruz had a very solid track record of conservatism and keeping his promises.

“And it was prior to Ted spending 18 months to rescind his Canadian citizenship and sanitize the Cruz-fam Canadian file after being exposed by the Dallas newsgroup in 2014 or 2015.”

Which is why Trump explained his concern, not so much about Cruz being eligible, but about the potential legal challenges that would hamper the campaign. And this was a brilliant, meted response by Trump. And quite frankly Cruz blew his one and only chance at the White House by not getting behind Trump sooner. And if the eligibility issue proved to be problematic, Cruz could still be senator but have a shot at a Supreme Court appointment. That is pretty much an impossibility now. But it was probably very unlikely anyway due to how much the left AND GOPe hates Cruz.

Regardless, these issues are not directly related to Manafort being jailed and are irrelevant to the issues at hand. You have successfully pulled the conversation onto this topic. But I am not going to concede my contention that this is a big mistake on your part.

But I will say that I appreciate your intentions. You are fighting for the right side. Just please keep in mind that party infighting is NOT going to help Trump—now or in 2020.

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