Posted on 12/10/2018 10:54:32 AM PST by rktman
Then what was the mechanism that ended the Snowball Earth epoch? A NASA article states that CO2 levels are at the highest now then they’ve been in the last 400,000 years.
” In 2013, CO2 levels surpassed 400 ppm for the first time in recorded history.”
https://climate.nasa.gov/climate_resources/24/graphic-the-relentless-rise-of-carbon-dioxide/
By the way, if I am starting to sound snippy and sarcastic, it is because this hoax generates a significant amount of anger in me.
I don’t know you, I don’t recall reading your posts before, so I should stress that my anger is not directed at you beyond your apparent embrace of man-caused global warming. For all I know, you may be an amiable Freeper who happens to believe the leftist narrative on man-caused global warming.
You should note that I am not the least bit interested in denying that global temperatures have been rising for some time. That is not the issue.
The issue is whether that warming has been caused by natural cyclical processes or by man-caused processes.
I am firmly convinced that this is primarily a natural cyclical process. I have considered the view of man-caused global warming, and I find in flawed in its conception and presentation. Advocates of man-caused global warming simply refuse to consider that there are other reasons the climate could be warming, and have fixated on man-caused activity regardless of other data.
That isn’t Science. It is dogma.
And it makes me extremely angry because that money that our own government (not to mention the UN and the EU) want to take out of OUR pockets to pay for this is not trivial, the costs are enormous.
The measures these statists want to impose on us will cost jobs and money, money we could have spent to pay down the debt, national defense, infrastructure repair, or any number of worthy things instead of pissing it away on this crap, and I resent it greatly.
Princeton’s Dr. Happer, who has authored 200 peer-reviewed scientific papers, explained in Senate testimony in 2009 that the Earth is currently in a ‘CO2 ‘famine.’ Happer explained to Congress: ”Warming and increased CO2 will be good for mankind…’CO2 is not a pollutant and it is not a poison and we should not corrupt the English language by depriving ‘pollutant’ and ‘poison’ of their original meaning,” Happer added. “Many people don’t realize that over geological time, we’re really in a CO2 famine now. Almost never has CO2 levels been as low as it has been in the Holocene (geologic epoch) – 280 (parts per million – ppm) – that’s unheard of. Most of the time [CO2 levels] have been at least 1000 (ppm) and it’s been quite higher than that,” Happer told the Senate Committee. “Earth was just fine in those times,” Happer added. “The oceans were fine, plants grew, animals grew fine. So it’s baffling to me that we’re so frightened of getting nowhere close to where we started,” Happer explained.http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/05/14/co2-nears-400-ppm-relax-its-not-global-warming-end-times-but-only-a-big-yawn-climate-depot-special-report/
Here’s a hyperlink to that webpage at Climate Depot so you can get there in one click:
The problem with that theory of continuous positive feedback from warming is that the absorption of infrared light by both CO2 and water vapor saturates at almost 100% at a certain concentration of both molecules. After the concentrations reach those levels, the molecules don’t absorb significantly more energy and the positive feedback essentially stops. CO2 is a very ineffective greenhouse gas and if the concentration doubled that would increase the earth’s temperature by < 0.24 degrees C:
At this point, I think the main thing that keeps the Climate Alarmist industry going is organizational politics and the complete, abject breakdown of the scientific peer review process related to research on climate science. This has turned into a huge debacle in the scientific community, and of course the lack of temperature increase in original, unadjusted temperature data demonstrates clearly that the alarmist models are incorrect and they greatly overestimate any effect on temperature caused by CO2.
But unfortunately, in many organizations in academia and government, scientists who tell the truth about this subject have their research harshly and falsely reviewed by people clinging to their false, outdated theories, and those who tell the truth are often punished severely or even fired from their jobs.
400 ppm CO2 is still quite low, if compared to the geologic record.
I think it is important to distinguish between short term (say, 1000 years or less) cycles, medium term cycles (such as the glacial and interglacial cycles in our present Ice Age), and long term events (generally many millions of years long) such as our current Ice Age (the Quaternary Ice Age, if you want to use Arctic glaciation as the starting point of the present Ice Age, or, more correctly, IMO, the Late Cenozoic Ice Age, using consistent Antarctic glaciation as the signal that the present in-general-cooling trend was well established).
I would note that designating an event or period “long term” does NOT mean it might not have a relatively rapid onset or conclusion, and, as with our present Ice Age, the variations within it can be very large.
It does appear “Snowball Earth”, IF it occurred, was likely ended by a vast release or accumulation of greenhouse gases, but the concentrations are hundreds of times higher than modern values. Many other factors were different too. Comparison of the end of “Snowball Earth” to modern climate variations is not even relevant.
OTOH, ocean levels are not entirely irrelevant. See my next post. The temperature spike in the interglacial immediately prior to the present interglacial is fairly impressive. There is another at approx. 330k years back. Although our present interglacial, so far, looks more like the one 400k years ago, who is to say we could not still get a spike of at least 6 deg. C even without any “input” from humans at all? If anything, what we should concentrate on is creating the most wealthy, powerful society possible, to best deal with whatever Mo’ Nature throws at us...
[[By the way, if I am starting to sound snippy and sarcastic, it is because this hoax generates a significant amount of anger in me.]]
You and me both- I ran a blog for years trying to inform folks about the issue- consulting a few tiems with folks like James Inhoffe and Marc Morano (who now runs climatedepot.org)- both of whom were in congress and handling climate issues at thaT time- I finally asked James outright why it was so hard to get the facts out to the public, and he basically stated that it all had to do with $$ and an agenda. I finally figured that if James and Marc, who had tons of scientific evidence proving man wasn’t to blame, couldn’t get the facts out in such a way as to put an end to this colossal scam, then my little blog wasn’t likely to do much good, and I grew frustrated and ended it a few years back-
The indoctrination that the world is undergoing by the left is simply astonishing- and like you said- facts just don’t matter them- it became clear that it was a losing battle trying to get the facts to the masses- the left already had them brainwashed-
[[And it makes me extremely angry because that money that our own government (not to mention the UN and the EU) want to take out of OUR pockets to pay for this is not trivial, the costs are enormous]]
Exactly- This scam is the Goose that lays the golden eggs- The left are already profiting off it, but we have only seen just the tip of the ice-burgh- the costs that will be incurred when their scam gets off the ground and running will be sky high- France just tried testing the waters- let’s hope Americans will follow suit in how we react to this massive scam-
[[The problem with that theory of continuous positive feedback from warming is that the absorption of infrared light by both CO2 and water vapor saturates at almost 100% at a certain concentration of both molecules. After the concentrations reach those levels, the molecules don’t absorb significantly more energy and the positive feedback essentially stops.]]
That’s what i’ve been trying to say in my own clumsy non-scientific manner- almost all of the escaping heat goes right out to space because what little CO2 and greenhouse gases there are are almost always saturated and can’t absorb anymore— and here’s an interesting note, (unless I’m misunderstanding how it works) when the CO2 molecule releases, or radiates the heat it captures outward, the molecule next to it reabsorbs it from what i understand- so essentially, once the layer is saturated- it simply passes the heat it’s already captured back and forth among the molecules- any ‘new heat’, or ‘new ir molecules’ that reach the layer, passes right on by because the layer is saturated already- and the heat finds the path of least resistance, as heat always wants to move upward-
There’s a lot to it- but the math and core samples show that the facts don’t fit the agenda
Bookmarked.
It sounds like we both kind of went down the same path...I was really on this for a while, then it seemed completely futile.
There is a tsunami of global warming hysteria out there, and it never lets up. (I pinged oldeconomybuyer because THAT is a Freeper who starts a lot of threads on this subject specifically)
The Left doesn’t sleep on this. It puts out a steady drumbeat of propaganda, not on a daily basis, but on an hourly basis if not more.
Normal people, even reasonable, intelligent people are simply immersed in this hogwash from dusk to dawn, and even if you have sat them down and gone over this and gotten them to see the incredible stupidity in the global warming hoax, they are immediately washed under again by a new wave of panic.
For me, the crowning moment of Trump’s Presidency so far was his withdrawal from the Paris Climate Accord, and on the world stage, calling it what it is: a massive wealth redistribution scheme.
We just received 14” of snow, and it was caused by global warming? ‘Splain this....why was the last time that Richmond received this much snow this early in the season was in 1896?
Here is the explanation: Anything they see occurring in the real world is readily explained by man-caused global warming.
My post at #64 sounds like poking fun at the alarmists, but it isn’t. Every single stupid thing in that block of things caused by global warming actually appeared in a media report or in a peer reviewed article (for that THAT joke of “peer-review” is worth these days)
Your fingernails are brittle? Global warming. Birds flying into windows at your house? Global warming. Scale on your tub in your bathroom? Global warming. Halitosis? Global warming.
So it is no surprise when people like you say “WTF? You are telling me that colder temperatures and greater snowfalls are due to excessive warming? “
And they answer with a straight face: “Absolutely.”
The sea has been rising 2-3 mm/yr since the end of the last ice age. So what.
But a lot of this idiotic crap is intentionally and maliciously misrepresented. Outright intentional lying and deceit.
For example...the common canard that global warming is causing a real increase in CAT 3, 4, and 5 Hurricanes. The ignorant drones all believe this unquestioningly and accept it as fact. Here is their proof in this graph...looks really dire, etc?
Looks scary. But it only shows since 1969...why is that? Why did they choose 1969 as a starting date?
Well...it is because if they show all the data, normal people would look at this and see it for the normal cyclical process that it is. The graph below takes it back to 1944: 
Gee. It looks like a natural cyclical process. But that not only isn't as scary, it is also something that can't be taxed and controlled by government.
This was no accident, and this is how they are approaching the issue. Fine. I am not going to play along. They can kiss my derriere. How I despise these people.
Savage nails it by calling it mental illness.
Thank you
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