Posted on 11/13/2019 7:02:01 PM PST by topher
The ship had nine 16” tubes. Do the math on shots per tube/ turret and you can see those men were seriously jumping some AP shells and powder bags.
They exceeded 1 round per minute in the early action.
wow.....
That stuck out for me, too - can you imagine what that looked like at night?
Fire. Shrapnel. Smoke. Blast.
The blast effects of explosions of naval shell sometimes left men dead without a single mark on them. Just turned to jelly inside.
Entire gun turret crews of men killed by smoke.
Just awful reading.
In that same book “Neptune’s Inferno” there was a particularly interesting account of a destroyer that picked up a group of Marines led by Chesty Puller that had been caught behind enemy lines.
The Marines were fed and catered to by the crew for a day and a night, and when it came time to go, the Captain of the destroyer asked if they wanted to stay longer, and Puller said no...they would rather be on land. When the puzzled captain asked him why, Puller said something like “On land, you know where you are. You can fight back. You can burrow into the earth or get shelter. Out here on the ocean...” (I don’t remember the exact words, but the sentiment was apparent to me)
In the Battle of Savo Island, we had nearly a thousand men killed in a matter of minutes, overall, the shooting lasted long minutes, and the time from the first shot being fired to the Japanese withdrawal was about 45 min, IIRC.
It was brutal, savage fighting with Fire, Shrapnel, Smoke, and Blast effects, and in some cases that nobody wanted to talk about, in the end...sharks.
Makes me shudder to think of it.
What was remarkable to me was the description of the shells, glowing orbs in flights of 3 to 9, easily visible arcing into the night sky, disappearing into the clouds, then reappearing in the far off horizon coming out of the clouds followed by the explosions.
Or the accounts of a destroyer firing every single weapon including anti-aircraft guns into the passing Kirishima as ranges so close that they could watch their rounds disappearing inside the superstructure almost immediately after firing them, then seeing the bulkheads glowing red hot from the fires within.
The stated rate of fire for the 16” naval rifle was 1 round every 30 seconds. The Armor Piercing round for the US Navy weighed in at about 2700 pounds with a range of 43,325 yards. Weight of a 9 gun broadside was 24,300 pounds!!
The 5” gun had a rate of fire of 16 rounds a minute, or one shell every 3.75 seconds. The 5 “ shell weighs in at 55 pounds and gas range in the anti ship role of 17,600 yards. The weight of a 10 gun broadside was only 550 pounds. Of note the 55 pounds refers to the shell only. The total weight of a 5” round was 92 pounds.
One final note on the guns. Battleship armor was designed in general to defeat the enemy rounds from ranges between 20,000 to 30,000 yards. The engagement ranges in this particular action were almost at point blank range.
Last comment the Washington suffered a “design defect” in here gunnery radar. The ship was blind to the rear by about a 60 degree spread, IIRC this was due to the gunnery radar being mounted on the front have of the ship where the superstructure blocked out the radar aft.
Because of this Adm. Lee would not open fire for fear of hitting South Dakota. South Dakota had suffered a crippling electrical fault which resulted in the SoDak going dark for almost 30 minutes. .
Source for the gunnery at...
http://www.combinedfleet.com/baddest.htm
Regards
alfa6 ;>}
This is a typo, for USS South Carolina, read USS South Dakota. USS South Carolina (BB26) was a WW1 Battleship decommissioned in 1921.
As for the Guadalcanal Campaign, it was only able to be attempted because of the results of Midway five months earlier. If even two IJN aircraft carriers had survived, an equivalent battle might have been fought in French Polynesia in order to keep the IJN from cutting off Australia & New Zealand.
The first battle of Guadalcanal (Nov 13th 1942), was a real slugfest also. My uncle Denver Miller GM3c. was a gunners mate on the USS Atlanta. During the battle his turret took a direct hit, he was the only survivor and was transported the next day to the Island of Guadalcanal as the USS Atlanta so severely damaged it was towed further out a sunk. Later he was transported to hospital in Hawaii.
Nov 13th battle we lost
2 light cruisers
4 destroyers.
The Japanese lost
1 battleship
1 heavy cruiser
2 destroyers
7 transports
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Battle_of_Guadalcanal
True, but the final outcome was a huge loss for the Japanese.
The Japanese lost a total of 24,000 men killed in the Battle of Guadalcanal, while the Americans sustained 1,600 killed, 4,200 wounded, and several thousand dead from malaria and other tropical diseases. The various naval battles cost each side 24 warships: the Japanese lost 2 battleships, 4 cruisers, 1 light carrier, 11 destroyers, and 6 submarines, while the Americans lost 8 cruisers, 2 heavy carriers, and 14 destroyers. We had the capabilities to replace our material losses, the Japanese didn’t.
Thanks for your replies.
Here is a link to a transcription of the battle action report from the USS Washington website:
http://www.usswashington.com/1stbatt.htm
A couple of things to note:
USS Washington received no damage during the action. Nearest enemy
fire was an observed major caliber shell splash about 200 yards away.
The text posted in the Free Republic article omitted some additional 5” fire during the same period (probably because the fire was being directed at Japanese cruisers vs IJN Kirishima):
- From 0100 to 0107, fired 120 rounds 5”, at ranges from 7,400 to 9,500 yards, in succession at three enemy cruisers illuminating and engaging SOUTH DAKOTA.
(So the total 5” rounds fired in 51 minutes was 560.)
USS South Dakota took a lot of abuse because Japanese destroyers and cruisers were able to illuminate her with searchlights and keep her illuminated. That is until USS Washington came along and began using their searchlight as aiming points. The report highlights fire control being a combination of radar AND optical observation (underscoring the value of each).
When the Japanese could see you, their fire was accurate.
A link to a PDF of the original typed report is at the bottom of the transcription.
Blueflag: The report includes some data concerning the rounds per gun firing rate for the 16” guns: 1.3 rounds per minute average, 1.8 peak. (Once again, Wow.)
Psalm 73: Considering it was nighttime and the number of ships firing, this was a spectacle of the first order to see and (referring to my original post) feel. Imagine what it was like for the crew of the IJN Kirishima since they were on the receiving end of USS Washington’s fire. In addition to your own guns firing, you are being ripped to pieces by enemy fire and you are trying to fight the ship and keep from sinking.
Apologies for not including you on my reply post to Blueflag, and Psalm 73. For some reason, it didn’t show up on my “My Comments” page.
Your comments on gunnery and battleship armor and design are dead on.
There is a channel on YouTube, Drachinifel, which has detailed discussions of specific ships, ship classes, proposed but unbuilt designs, sea battles ( real and theoretical), etc. The author is a U.K. enthusiast who is not only very knowledgeable but also seems to have access to in-depth archival materials.
I mention him because he has extensively discussed armor protection limitations vs armament vs maximum speed with respect to match ups between successive generations of battleships armed with 12, 13, 14, 15, and 16” guns. His narratives make the points you made: under a certain range, no (practical) amount of armor protection could be carried that would keep out an enemy battleship’s main gun fire.
Successful engagements required finding the “sweet spot” where your ship’s main gun fire was effective but your armor could still protect the ship’s vital spaces. If there was none, you either hoped the enemy couldn’t shoot very well or refused battle by turning away at speed or, if those were not options, went straight at them in a death ride. (Acknowledged but unspoken was the probable fate (loss) of the ship’ superstructure and crew members stationed outside the armor during a major engagement. For them, their primary armor protection was prayer and luck.)
Love the Combined Fleet website and have used it as a resource for years.
Semper Fi !
Most of the larger caliber hits were not armor piercing rounds fired by the Japanese. They were planning on a shore/airfield bombardment, totally different round.
Without Midway the Japanese would have held the Solomon’s well into 1943 with all their front line carriers and pilots available. Midway was a turning point that blunted the Japanese advance and made it an even fight until our industrial might kicked in, then it was over for Japan.
Near the end of the book, perhaps in an appendix, are the Marine and Navy casualties on the island and in the various sea battles respectively.
Marine KIA were about 1,500 and the USN was close to 4,500.
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