Posted on 11/13/2019 8:08:14 PM PST by caww
So, from Wikipedia we learn that the MOSE project is 4 years behind schedule and costs went from €1.3 billion to a presently estimated €5.496 billion. (I’ll take bets at 10:1 that the final cost will exceed €6 billion.)
Obviously, they needed Donald Trump in charge!
I visited Rome, not Venice.
However, as I noted, 2,000 years ago, Christ noted that building on sand was exceedingly unwise.
Seems to me, ignoring such common sense, is willful ignorance.
The Moses project sounds like it has been rife with greed, corruption, delays, and maybe even poor design. At least they took many such politicos & officials to court. I don’t know how much of that might be willful ignorance but it doesn’t sound the least bit exemplary.
A lot of art around the world & particularly in Italy seems to be very associated with elitism, egotistical narcissism, etc. I don’t know how much all that helps the peasants—except for something somewhat beautiful to look at.
I’m just of the opinion that sufficient money must have been findable in the years since the hazards were more fully realized. Yet an emphatically effective solution doesn’t even appear on the horizon—particularly if the Moses project design is as flawed as some assert.
Reportedly the sewer laden canals have been somewhat cleaned up? I hope so.
I’m curious. Would 15% of the tourist money over 50 years have been sufficient for a comprehensive & emphatically effective solution? I’d hope so.
I’m not impressed by the idea that devastating flooding only lasts however many hours or days. Have you had to clean up after a flood? No fun.
This is 2019. These problems did not just suddenly appear. And a successful solution still seems out of reach. I’m just not impressed.
Maybe they could have swallowed some pride and hired Holland to fix their problem.
If all that art and beautiful historic buildings are THAT wonderful & priceless—why subject them so relentlessly for so many decades & centuries to such hazard & increasingly sinking destruction.
We live in an era when incredible construction strategies & technologies can do almost miraculous things. Doesn’t sound like Venice has any clue of such options.
I think the criticism of the Moses project gates is reasonable. Seems very logical to me that in almost any up position—during a vigorous storm, the gates would likely be mostly useless to very breakable. How did such a design get passed? Willful ignorance?
Not my city. Not my country. Not my expertise. I’m just routinely disgusted with ignorance & malpractice in political leadership positions regardless of where it occurs.
Industry Tap
"Saving Venice: The MOSE Project"
2 JAN 2013
https://www.businessinsider.com/venice-mose-flood-gates-storms-2018-11
"A $6.5 billion sea wall was supposed to stop Venice from flooding. Now, most of the city is underwater."
" Venice was hit by a series of devastating storms this week, causing three-quarters of the city to be submerged in water.
Officials suspect that the city could have been protected by a massive flood barrier, which is not yet complete.
The $6.5 billion infrastructure project has been pummeled by criticism and political scandal, including the arrest of a former mayor in 2014."
First time bath for many Italians, eh?
The floods are naturally going to appear worse every year, because the little islands that make up Venice are slowly sinking.
“Seek the fair land that lies over the brow of the hill.” —Old Irish Proverb
The city was founded in the late Roman period (5th century) by refugees from the mainland, which was being ravaged by constant warfare as civil order collapsed. The early residents knew perfectly well that living on islands created storm risks, but they deemed those preferable to being sacked by Goths, Lombards, or local warlords from neighboring city states every few years. The city prospered through the medieval and early modern period, in large part because of its defensible location. Now it is an extraordinary historical site and tourist attraction with huge maintenance issues. We were there this summer. Wonderful place.
I'm all in favor of letting the hurricanes take Hilton Head. Our development on barrier islands is insane and we shouldn't waste money rebuilding after storms. It was a mistake to rebuild New Orleans below sea level. But Venice has so much historical and artistic importance that it's worth trying to preserve. I suppose the price might eventually become prohibitive, which would be sad.
Didn’t they spend billions on a barrier?
Oh yeah...first thing out of the mayor’s mouth. The full moon and high winds pushing the water have absolutely nothing to do with it.
Total BS...its happened before, this one is not the worst...just second worst since like 1912 or so when they started keeping records...dates many be off but its not like its been forever.
St. Marks and the Doge’s Palace and all the shops have seen this before.
MEANWHILE, they have a mechanical barrier that has been under construction since 2003 and after billions of euros, is still not working or finished.
Aqua Alta: its a real thing and has been for, like, EVER.
We were there a last month. Sad to see this but in a week or so it will be all cleaned up and the crowds will be just like they were.
“historic squares of Venice...” put in to be able to use the word “historic” - “Second highest in history” used to get “history/historic” tie-ins into people’s minds...
I guess these days the word “historic” means there’s been a history of the event but now it really really means something...
Flooding in Atlantis is worse.
Venice is flooding because it is at sea level
Headed there September 2020. Can’t wait!
I appreciate all your thoughts. 1st of all we don’t have peasants anymore. 2nd of all visit Venice. It isn’t going anywhere.The flooding is part of its history and unique location in the world.Nor is its art work in particular danger of having anything happen to it. The last supper in Milan Has been practically destroyed including by Napoleon’s men taking target practice at it. Every art work in Italy and everywhere else has a history of being painted over, attacked with hammers, out right plundered and destroyed. This has happened in landlocked cities more than in Venice. The history of Venice was taking art from other places especially the now Muslim Constantinople and preserving it in the West for Christianity. In short, Venice is great. Did they bungle a flood control program? OK
I was also there last month and it was great. I think they will have it fixed up in about a day based on what I saw.
Thanks for your wise & fitting insights & defense of Venice.
Yeah, what’d those Renaissance guys know about city planning!
Maybe they should do what Dennis Hastart so brilliantly suggested about the great city of New Orleans: pave it over.
Undoubtedly, part of its charm is its ghostly underwater steps and doors, etc. What a fascinating city! As you say, this is just heavier than usual. They’ll survive.
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