Posted on 12/13/2019 12:08:12 PM PST by marktwain
I read 5210. This morning. That was a general administrative change.
President Trump did not initiate it.
It is the heart of what I call Defiance through Compliance.
The directive makes it functionally impossible for a commander to issue permits.
Yes, theoretically they could issue permits, but no prudent commander would do so.
February 25, 1992 directive:
This Directive is effective immediately. Forward one copy of implementing documents to the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Command, Control, Communications and Intelligence) and the Inspector General, Department of Defense within 120 days. [Department of Defense, 2/25/92]
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a272176.pdf#page=4
My last post has the link to the original 1992 order in pdf file.
Copy & paste if 1992 directive
Feb 25, 92
5210.56
D. POLICY
It is DoD Policy:
1. To limit and control the carrying of firearms by DoD
military and civilian personnel. The authorization to carry
firearms shall be issued only to qualified personnel when there
is a reasonable expectation that life or DoD assets will be
jeopardized if firearms are not carried. Evaluation of the
necessity to carry a firearm shall be made considering this
expectation weighed apainst the possible consequences of
accidental or indiscriminate use of firearms. DoD personnel
regularly engaged in law enforcement or security duties shall be
armed. Procedures on authorization to carry and the carrying of
firearms are in enclosure 1.
2. That DoD military and civilian personnel engaged in law
enforcement or security duties shall avoid the use of force
where they can carry out their duties without resorting to its
use. In such cases where the use of force is warranted, DoD
personnel shall use the minimum amount of force necessary to
reach their objective. Deadly force shall only be used as
described in enclosure 2.
3. That when personnel must carry firearms aboard aircraft,
either on their person or in baggage, commercial airline or
military passenger service representatives shall be notified
before the flight departure. Personnel shall carry written
authorization to carry the firearm and proper identification to
include a full-face photograph. If the firearm is carried in
baggage, the weapon shall be unloaded and securely locked in the
baggage. Procedures for the authorization and carrying of
firearms on commercial and/or military aircraft are in enclosure
3.
E. RESPONSIBILITIES
1. The Assistant Secretary of Defense for Command, Control,
Communications and Intelligence shall monitor compliance with
this Directive as it relates to counterintelligence, law
enforcement and security matters.
2. The Inspector General of the Department of Defense shall
monitor compliance with this Directive as it relates to criminal
investigative policy and law enforcement functions in the DCIOs.
3. The Heads of the DoD Components shall:
a. Authorize DoD personnel to carry firearms in
accordance with this Directive. This authority shall be
exercised by the Director of Administration and Management for
OSD; the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency; the Defense
Legal Services Agency; the Defense Security Assistance Agency;
and the DoD Field Activities.
3
Passed under Bush, and Clinton Signed it.
Here’s the problem with your proposal:
I was the Weapons Officer on a CG in Mayport, responsible for everything on the ship that went ‘boom’, from Tomahawk cruise missiles to M-60’s to 50 cals to SM-2 SAM’s to torpedoes.
The ‘Base Commander’ was not my Commanding Officer.
In order to get to my ship, I had to transit through the base.
I have a CCW permit from my State - it’s called my driver’s license. I’m from Vermont. Anybody age 16 and older can carry concealed in Vermont; if one is younger, then that person has to have a permission slip from Mom/Dad.
Even on base, a commissioned warship is sovereign territory and the Commanding Officer (or his designated representative) can prevent ANY person from boarding the ship - including base police, sheriffs, local police, etc.
I was responsible for training our ship’s security forces for deployment - but I wasn’t allowed to carry a weapon between the gate and my ship - legally. Made no sense then, and it makes no sense now. Too many ‘risk-averse’ perfumed princes all believing they’re still on track for O-7.
Links to the original documents are in this Media Matters propaganda, written to protect Bill Clinton.
Sorry. Forgot link.
i always carried and I always had live ammo on my person.
stupid not to in the middle of Fort Nowhereville.
Arm all officers and senior NCOs.
State CCW means nothing to the military and it shouldn’t. The UCMJ allows the military to authorize their members to carry and the civilians have no say so. Military training also dwarfs civilian carry training, so I wouldn’t rely on that being of any value either.
Same reason civilians are in blue states.
Expand your horizons friend.
On an average day, there are almost as many retirees and other privileged veterans on any given post, base or installation as permanent party AD types. Include these folks.
Regarding the military simply authorizing anyone let alone everyone to carry, you must not have spent too much time in the uniform. Commanders are almost always risk avoidant- the civilian CCW places the monkey on the trooper/sailor airmen back, more or less.
As a former enlisted infantryman (11B3V) and a sapper officer, I can tell you the type, amount and quality of firearms training compared to what the average civilian CCW type benefits from, not to mention rules of lawful use of lethal force in self defense pale. Lockstep range days are not conducive to the dynamics of a non-tactical lethal force situation, and not much ahs changed since my infantry days, even today.
I spent a bit of time working with a protective detail after retirement, maybe then I received comparative small arms training defensive wise.
As a retired field grade officer, I assure you that there are folks in uniform that won’t qualify for a state issued ccWL, probably more than you think possible. Let the state vet them, require mil/naval added stuff if you wish. My DL isn’t issued by the DOD ( except for driving mil vehicles, but then I was required to have a state issued DL too, yeah.).
Maybe use the CCWL for us well qualified but nonduty status types who frequent or even work on mil bases but are out in the cold any other way ( even LEOSA).
Didn’t quite get the answer you offer.
My example may not be workable in every situation, but then those are the details to be worked out. AFA you DL being a CCWL- not. MO is a permitless carry state too- I always recommend folks get CCW cert training and a CCWL for all the benefits of the doubt. You my be a well qualified cC type, but I would hesitate to assume so. As a former CCWL instructor here in MO, I turned down quite a few folks who could buy a firearm, but did not meet my criteria for my signature.
The mechanics of a vessel etc- well, tell us how it should work. Would tend to think that a boat anchored at a naval base is not the same as one underway etc ( but I am not a naval officer nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn recently).
We agree on the stinking princes and risk avoidance wet lilies....
“you must not have spent too much time in the uniform”
I’m prior military and don’t go for all that blather you write. You obviously know little of the low level of CCW training it takes to get the license.
“America’s Armed Forces will be armed.”
Makes a mockery out of the term “armed forces”. Every swinging —— and female military member should be armed at all times.
Doesn’t matter who thinks what about our CCW - we’ve had that since three years prior to VT becoming a State in 1791, and we’re consistently in the top three of the safest states. I’ll guarantee you I know more about rules of deadly force than most VSP and Sheriff’s Deputies in their 20’s.
All I can tell you about a ship pierside at a base - that ship’s Commanding Officer is responsible for it - not the base CO.
WHY isn’t that POS Nidal Malik Hasan DEAD YET?
Approaching 2020
See clearly.
Well, offer a solution sailor.
Regarding VT and ccw, doesn’t the state offer a ccwl for reciprocity reasons? Granted, 15 other states recognize constitutional carry, but that leaves 33 or so that don’t.
MO welcomes you w/o one, but a bunch of states between us do not.
A national recognition of ccwls would help in this topic.
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