Skip to comments.The Supreme Court has agreed to address a challenge to the Electoral College
Posted on 01/18/2020 9:49:22 AM PST by antidemoncrat
click here to read article
“whether states have the Constitutional rights to punish faithless electors who choose to cast their electoral college vote against the wishes of the popular vote in that state. This doesnt seem like its a direct challenge to the electoral college system itself.”
Yep! Heaven forbid some conservative congressional districts in California, Washington, Oregon, Florida and New York actually get a voice. No state should be winner take all, even my home state of Texas.
I’ll have to sort of ... er disagree with you there (Office Space reference). :-)
...can anyone say Iowa.
The Supreme Court cannot rule the Electoral College unconstitutional. If they throw out the Electoral College, which is explicitly written into the Constitution, then why not throw out the part about Supreme Court justices being appointed for life and just elect new ones?
That said, the Electoral College renders my vote useless as I live in the People’s Republic of California and am just one lone red voice crying out in a wilderness of blue. It does not matter how I vote; my state’s electoral votes all go the Demonrats anyway. Same thing for those who live in solid red states. Only if you live in a handful of swing states does your vote actually count for something. So if someone introduced a Constitutional Amendment and abolished the Electoral College the legal way I can’t say I would be crying my heart out.
Thanks for your link. The Colorado Secretary of State obviously did not have the benefit of my U.S. History and Government teacher, who made it abundantly clear that far from being unelected, the electors were precisely whom we were actually voting for.
Calling them unelected is to show that one does begin to grasp the system. Along with I would bet, at minimum, a plurality of the electorate (probably a majority, with those that partially grasp being the next largest group, with those who can explain it accurately being a minority that is likely so small I don’t want to even think about it because despair stinks).
I live in Texas and the news recently reported that in 2018, 86,000 people from California moved here. Not that I’m against that unless their desire is to now remake Texas into a California clone.
Most Democrats want to change the Constitution into a “living” document. What the means is they want it to be a document that they can re-interpret it to mean anything they want it to mean depending on the situation.
That is pretty much progressivism in a nut shell.
“No electoral college: Voter Fraud anywhere = Voter Fraud everywhere.”
Give em a break. Without voter fraud, the Democrats may never win another election..
Tempting as it is at times to move it’s not really an option for me. My family, my job, and my home are here and I’ve always been more of a stand-your-ground type. The brother of a friend of mine moved out to Texas with his new bride because land is cheaper there. I’m sure they’re very happy.
“The case is expected to be argued in April and decided by the end of June”
And then the SCOTUS judges run off and hide for three months.
“whether states have the Constitutional rights to punish faithless electors who choose to cast their electoral college vote against the wishes of the popular vote in that state”
But if they rule the states can do that, doesn’t that pretty much destroy the Electoral College?
“whether Electoral College electors are free to break their pledges to back the candidate who wins their states popular vote, an act that could upend an election.”
If they allow that, it will pretty much destroy the Electoral College.
They are not hearing a case regarding the Electoral College itself.
This is a case regarding faithless electors and whether states can require their electors to vote for the winner of the candidate the state chooses or any candidate they want.
In any case, I suspect the Electoral College’s days are numbered just like state appointment of senators.
THE POPULAR STATE
The solution is simple. Gerrymander all the big cities together and call them all the new Popular State.
The Popular State is the 51st State.
Gerrymander is acceptable for Democrats and Congressional Districts. It is also acceptable for Gerrymandering the Big City out of your State.
Yes, it would make the Electoral College a free-for-all and the Electors would not be bound to vote to represent the wishes of the state they are in.
It would essentially render the Electoral Collage worthless as I see it. There might be one recourse and it would be for the voters of the state to demand that more faithful and loyal people get chosen as Electors to make sure they fulfill the wishes of the people of the state.
Please read. I cleaned up a previous post I made half asleep. These are my thoughts, with some historical context and reasoning(rant) about how far we’ve fallen from how the EC and General Government was intended to function... corrupted by greed, power, personal/special interests by those we trusted to serve us, obey and defend the Constitution.
The Federal government is an agent of the states NOT the people. The POTUS is it’s chief emissary/ambassador. The Constitution is a union by contract between the several states and the general government, like a Star Trek Federation of planets. The affairs of the planets are not the concerns of the federation,only if planetary affairs abridge, or become repugnant to, the foundation laws of the federations member agreement, the constitution. Like Star Trek the planets/states have their own constitutions and legislatures that form the governance by/for the people of each nation state. The affairs of the people are the direct concern of each state and their own elected representatives... and NOT the concern of the Federal government to extend its mischief into the affairs of individuals within the several states.
The US is not a population mass and a single demographic of voters, but a union of nation states with their own constitutions and legislature that vote for the POTUS as individual representative sovereigns... the same way they do in congress. State representation in the Senate is what makes us a republic of states. As a Representative Republic, the people do not directly elect the President but instead each states appoints their own voting delegation called “electors” to act/vote on behalf of the state. These delegates form the constitutional empowered self-governing association of character & civics minded learned thinkers called the “Electoral College.” And from those votes cast by the EC representatives, a candidate must win a majority. The “National Popular Vote” has constitutionally NOTHING to do with the election of the POTUS... but merely provides a statistical composite and election demographic for entertainment and fodder for the clown-show pundits. But at the state level each states legislature is left with the task of how their electors are chosen/appointed and which POTUS candidate the elector MUST pledge his/her vote based upon the majority outcome of total votes cast for a non-binding ballot placement for POTUS in the November general election?! The General election doesn’t not elect the POTUS... the EC does using a secret ballot! Which they deliver to each state legislature when they convene in December!
But nooooo.... the electors votes are decided/predisposed on the “general election” day! This is done by creating a slate/full-compliment of pledged/allegiant bound delegates for EACH PARTY POTUS candidate on the ballot in the general election. A complete adulteration, a defilement/contamination of the constitutional design in electing the POTUS! The electors are instructed WRONGLY that they MUST act as party agents without free-will... and are mandated by state law to pledge their votes based upon the outcome of the general election state popular vote. There is NO delegate choice but INTERFERENCE by an authorized unofficial “direct-democratic” popular ballot choice of the people! This disenfranchises/vetoes the EC delegate sovereign duty to vote his/her will, making the delegates irrelevant having been made AGENTS/puppets of the people and their parties! The EC delegates are free-agents! Free to vote their conscience, not be told they must vote as a collective slate! This debases the EC’s intent, and is nothing but a partisan gerrymander/manipulation that flies in the face of true representation and state interests!
FYI: The EC was NEVER intended to be beholden to a particular party within each state. Let alone having multiple EC delegate slates representing the interests of their respective parties and would cast their votes as if they were a bag of marbles or programmed robots based upon the outcome of a state popular vote that decides which party bag of marbles will be delivered to DC senate president for counting! (12th Amendment). So it begs the question... WHY? Why do we have HUMAN delegates if they act simply as placeholders, a labeled bad of marbles used only for tabulation? ... Because the EC was NEVER intended to be marbles, but FREE-WILLED voting delegates that are entrusted to chose wisely!
The Constitution only allows for electing a President by electoral college and NOT by popular vote. The people can’t ever constitutionally directly elect a president or an elector delegate. The Constitution gives no such allowance. The Constitution only empowers each state legislature to select/appoint each and every delegate if it so chooses.
US Constitution Article. II. Section. 1. p(2)
“Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.”
Tying the states popular vote to the slate of electors is just a bunch of window dressing which is in place only to lead the people into thinking that they have a direct say in electing a president. But in actuality, any statute in any state that mandates such selection of the elector delegates would be repugnant to the Constitution and void if ever challenged by the people. The general election has become perverted and subverted by party greed and power. Multiple slate EC party delegates are meant to benefit only the interests of the party that tabulates a majority of VOTES CAST in order to gain control of the executive branch regardless of the actual/real will of the states population who did not vote. The EC delegates have NO obligation to follow the results of a POTUS ballot vote from the public... ZERO! The delegates MUST represent both those who cast votes as well as those who did not! The POTUS candidates shouldn’t even exist on the general ballot in November! To repeat again... This flies in the face of true representation of both the soverign interests of the state and the interests of the people who want to be left alone to their own affairs away from general government inerference and medling!
The aggressive anti-American party will ALWAYS use special interest groups, paid protesting, MSM, community organization, and money... to spread lies, rumors, propaganda, fake polls and disinformation in campaigning for the purpose of disenfranchising voters, suppressing votes, to cause confusion and dismay among-st the opposition, and depressing/intimidating voters into staying home. And worst of all... disenfranchising votes by casting fraudulent votes, busing and cheating. That is why the EC delegates should be sovereign as originally intended... free-willed and without prejudice, not beholden-ed to anyone, any pledge, or any party. Or be a Senator or Representative, or person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States.
The Electoral College... An equal footing for every state.
I think it is outrageous that anyone suggests that the Electoral College is an obstacle to the will of the people or exists without sound reason and argument.
The Electoral College avoids the corrupt influence of the popular vote and is required for the integrity and consistency of a representative government. And also guarantees an equal representation when casting it’s delegate votes for president.
The same representation it is guaranteed in the Senate with each State having 2 Senators. The power of smaller less populated states wielding the same power as the larger more populous states. The Senate and Electoral vote gives that equal power and equal attention.
Each State chooses it’s delegates 1 for 1 according to it’s Congressional members. 1 for each Senator and 1 for each House member. The choice of each delegate is neither pledged or mandated by state statute tied to a popular vote. Any State which carries a law mandating the Electoral College delegate to pledge it’s vote on the side of the popular vote in that State is unconstitutional and should be thrown out if challenged. Delegates are free to decide on whom ever they choose, pledged or not.
The founding fathers created the college for the following reasons:
Federalist Papers: Hamilton #68, Constitution: Article II & Amendment XII
1) To avoid the Florida 2000 hanging chad circus recount of the popular vote that would decide the EC slate to be cast. But instead free-will single contingent/slate of EC delegates would cast their votes independent of the popular vote in November... casting their votes on their constitutional mandated day of the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December! No disputes, no hanging chads, no fraud! The President is elected clearly and decidedly. The votes are easily counted and cannot be challenged. Simple and decisive.
2) The EC vote prevents the combined population centers of a few states from overwhelming the combined population of the several majority states resulting in the population centers having veto power over the majority. EC is representative by design so 2-3 high population states can’t veto/cancel-out the rest & decide for all 50 states who becomes president.
3) To create a buffer between the citizens and election of the president. It was to protect the nation from mob rule and ensure power for less-populous states. And to also ensure the attention and geographical reach is made from the candidates.
4) To shield/insulate the delegates from rumor or influence which does not have a foundation in fact which may change the outcome of a contest that is later proven to be false. With delegate pledging tied to a popular vote any BS rumor can be made on the 11th hour and change the whole outcome of an election. Would that be fair??
5) Carefully selected delegates are best equipped to assess and discriminate the qualifications, character, integrity and choose the person who will be entrusted to uphold and defend the Constitution and faithfully carry out the duties of President. Reason, not passions(emotions), of the people would stand in judgment.
6) To keep the President accountable to the union, congress and state legislators and less as much to affairs and whims of the people. The POTUS is not and has never been directly accountable to the people.
The multi party system we embrace in this country today was never intended to evolve when the Constitution was argued. Our founding fathers built a 2 party system into the Federal Constitution by means of the House & Senate. The Constitution defined the government and enumerated it’s powers. The Constitution is strict and concise and was born of a single ideology and without partisan favor. It defined government and insured against tyrannical change and arbitrary mischief by the obstacle of the amendment process. So a change to the Constitution was slow, wise and virtually absolute.
The guards of are liberty and freedom weren’t intended to debate over personal power, control and ideology. That was already settled/decided upon when the Constitution ratification passed! Government was created/authorized as our representatives to PROTECT our freedom and rights. They are our servants, EMPLOYEES!
The LEFT argues/infers Gov has authority to vote themselves largesse from the public treasury to affect influence on the electorate by implementing socialist programs, confiscatory taxation, welfare, multitude of regulatory controls offices/agencies/officers to harass the private sector/people with interference and the whims of special interests, NOT.
“He, King George, has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.” - Thomas Jefferson
Government is authorized/exists ONLY as a steward on our behalf to protect our liberty & natural rights... not impose- upon/interfere-with them. Gov job is to DEFEND OUR WAY OF LIFE!... not constrain it, provide for it, or redistribute it! Gov must yield to the chains of its supreme maker, the Constitution.
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” -John Adams
When Congress oversteps its bounds (which is the only thing it does today), it does not secure liberties, it destroys them. For, every liberty that it foolishly tries to secure for one individual, it destroys countless others for all the rest — for both States and individuals — denying and destroying freedoms of choice and the FUNDAMENTAL Right of each of the individual smaller societies (i.e. the States and true sovereigns) composing this Union from governing themselves independently of each other without aggression or interference from their AGENT (Federal government) or their neighbors. In other words, the “Federal” Government is NOT the sovereign, the member States are the sovereign — not collectively, but individually!
The Federal government was not created to rule, judge or govern the States (or to be the source of such aggression on behalf of other member or foreign States). Rather the complete opposite was intended, as was simply stated on June 27, 1787 in convention,
“...the General (Federal) Government was meant merely to PRESERVE the State Governments: NOT to govern individuals: that its powers ought to be kept WITHIN NARROW LIMITS; that if too little power was given to it, more might be added; but that if too much, it could never be resumed: that INDIVIDUALS as such have LITTLE to do BUT with their OWN States;”
So, where is it in the Constitution (or suggested anywhere in Convention) that the other way around was intended — i.e. that the People have little to do with their own States instead of little to do with the Federal Government, and that the People’s business was with each other’s States and not with their own and that the business of the “Federal” government was the welfare of individuals?
How is interfering with the State governments (regulating all that which has to do with the lives, liberties, choices, morals, habits, customs, health, wages, etc. of individuals) preserving the State governments? — And, going so far as to sue States in order to PREVENT them from supporting and upholding the Constitution and all the “legitimate” laws made in pursuant of it (such as Arizona) that every State official is obligate by oath to support and uphold? How are such acts against the States “preserving” their governments, or the Constitution for that matter?
The Second Amendment was not inserted for gun collectors or for sportsmanship or for feeding one’s family. The Second Amendment was inserted so that the People and their individual sovereign societies (States) can defend themselves from tyranny from a corrupt and lawless governing head, to wit —
DECEPTION: from TALLY -> to ELECTOR
An Elector’s vote tally is representative and UNCHANGEABLE.
The Constitution rightly states:
1) A Tally
Colonists had no electricity for communication, so vote “tallies” were carried by persons. That is the only reason for an Elector. They are NOT a representative.
A State CANNOT modify a vote after the tally, which Democrats want to do to defeat all elections.
Big Foreign money intervened and sells the deception that an Elector represents the vote, when truthfully the Tally is the vote.
This is a lie our enemies use to rig the election.
They switch from the Tally (unchangeable), to the person Elector (changeable).
— If I have to explain this one more time to smart Freepers, our Republic is DOOMED.
— If I have to explain this concept to our Supreme Court, were are lost.
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