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Self-Defense: Defendants requirement to prove
ER Services ^ | 11/12/2021 | Lumen Learning

Posted on 11/12/2021 1:19:38 PM PST by Az Joe

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To: AndyJackson
I am not an attorney, but you probably are correct.

It is obvious from the comments that most posters, if any, did not click on the link and read it.

The post that started all of this was posted as a copy of New York State Law. So calling it BS is in fact BS.

I call everyone's attention to the name Mike Nifong.

Mike Nifong was and is not the only “Mike Nifong””. At the same time he was ruining the college life of his victims, there were two other Prosecutors in NC, almost two hundred miles apart, guilty of the same tactics in court.

So from what I have learned as a long time concealed carrier, all prosecuting attorneys do not prosecute with the same vigor. They read the law and read into it their own understanding of right and wrong....and political ambition helps them in their reading.

So what I believe is that if you are unfortunate enough to be prosecuted by a Nyfong, you will be forced to prove all of the points made in the original post, so in that sense you will be required to prove enough of those points to make an effective defense.

So all of the positions taken here are interesting. It reminds me of the heated arguments over which came first...the chicken or the egg.

61 posted on 11/12/2021 3:14:21 PM PST by old curmudgeon (There is no situation so bad that the federal government can not make worse.)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

This is why I have Second Call Defense.


62 posted on 11/12/2021 3:25:22 PM PST by jimbug
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To: TexasGator

I don’t have to. There is no general rule, every state is different and they did not cite Wisconsin specifically.


63 posted on 11/12/2021 3:45:42 PM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (Let's go Brandon)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

“every state is different and they did not cite Wisconsin specifically.”

You state nonsense in reference Wisconsin law. Please cite Wisconsin statutes that are in conflict with these statements.


64 posted on 11/12/2021 3:52:31 PM PST by TexasGator (UF)
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To: Az Joe

Sorry to chime in, but there are two things happening. First, the prosecution has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, the charges against KR. Several of the charges are not contested. KR did shoot and kill JR and AH, for example.
That said, the defense can raise affirmative defenses, in this case self-defense. Having raised the defense, the burden shifts back to the prosecution to disprove self defense, beyond a reasonable doubt.
The way that is done is to disprove one of the four elements, not all of them. Here, the state’s only chance is to argue that KR provoked the attacks, which the state has to prove, again, beyond a reasonable doubt.


65 posted on 11/12/2021 4:15:04 PM PST by Consistent
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To: Consistent

In WI, a defendant who claims self-defense must prove all 4 elements I listed. Nothing you said matters.


66 posted on 11/12/2021 4:18:56 PM PST by Az Joe ("Scratch a Liberal, and a Fascist bleeds")
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To: TexasGator

The article did not reference Wisconsin just general information end of story. Wisconsin law is in question not general principals and they do differ. You picked garbage facts.


67 posted on 11/12/2021 5:04:18 PM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (Let's go Brandon)
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To: TexasGator; Az Joe
The State must prove by evidence which satisfies you beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act lawfully in self-defense.

Wisconsin Jury Instruction (Criminal) 805.

68 posted on 11/12/2021 5:10:47 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: Alberta's Child
I think we are saying the same thing.

It is the defendant's state of mind which is important, within limits. Not the objective facts.

If the defendant reasonably believed self defense was necessary, that meets the requirement (at least one of the requirements)

69 posted on 11/12/2021 7:43:09 PM PST by marktwain (President Trump and his supporters are the Resistance. His opponents are the Reactionaries. )
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To: Az Joe

Reread my post. I very clearly stated that an affirmative defense was presented.


70 posted on 11/12/2021 9:47:01 PM PST by WASCWatch ( WASC)
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To: Az Joe

Rittenhouse not in federal court idiot.


When insulting others, it is important to avoid irony. You forgot the comma. 😜


71 posted on 11/13/2021 6:32:01 AM PST by cuban leaf (My prediction: Harris is Spiro Agnew. We'll soon see who becomes Gerald Ford, and our next prez.)
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To: AndyJackson

“and becomes “beyond a reasonable doubt.””

That is what I posted via the statute in response to your post that it was NOT the criteria for burden of proof.


72 posted on 11/15/2021 8:40:03 AM PST by TexasGator (UF)
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