Posted on 01/20/2023 5:00:44 PM PST by McGruff
Lots of German govt and otherwise seem to be tight with Russia like merkel an east german. I hope the poles tell the Germans to shove the bratwurst where the sun don’t shine
MSM is very successful at marketing.
PR company designed the ‘Putin is evil, Ukraine are good guys and will win’ selling.
MSM took it from there.
Its funny because Russia says if they lose in Ukraine they will nuke us.
I guess those Ukraine cheerleaders are ready to die.
Or they are too stupid to understand that Russia is not kidding.
My entire life is different now. I have become a bit more hedonistic while we await the outcome.
Live for today as the Grassroots sang.
I truly enjoy each day now and expect no future beyond a month or so.
Ridiculous post, Briton would have fallen if not for US aid. Hell Russia too remember which side they started on Poland does No one says Ukraine has won but hey Russia is doing so well that they are blowing their wad on Ukrainian apartment buildings and energy infrastructure oh by the way where is Russia getting their drones from???? 10000 pieces of equipment gone, ships that are now aquatic habitat, aircraft, helicopters lost that they can’t replace. Petro revenue slashed, budget surplus to budget deficit and oh tens of thousand of dead and wounded citizens but hey they may have lost half the territory they took early but after months they may have taken a salt mining town of 10000., but only with the help of convict mercs Bravo Is that “winning” ? big bad Putin thought he could roll over Ukraine and reestablish the Russian empire, he chose unwisely
Untermenschen.... is a Nazi term for non-Aryan people they deem as inferior, who were often referred to as “the masses from the East”, that is Jews, Roma, and Slavs (mainly ethnic Poles, Serbs, and later also Russians).....The term was also applied to mixed race and black people Jewish, Polish and Romani people, along with the physically and mentally disabled, as well as homosexuals and political dissidents, and on rare instances, POWs from Western Allied armies, were to be exterminated in the Holocaust
The maximum upside is that the Leopards work well in Ukrainian hand and they push the Russians back before the tanks are destroyed. In that case the Germans have strengthened another troublesome west Slavic state between themselves and the Russians.
The maximum downside is that the tanks are destroyed by Russian anti-tank missiles, artillery, drones, aircraft, etc. before they have any significant effect. In that case the German army is rendered completely questionable as an effective force and required a complete rearmament and reorganization.
A pretty paltry upside and an appalling downside.
Sending Leopards is not worth the risk.
England would have fallen if all we provided was aid. Germany would have probably won WWII if Hitler had not overplayed his hand by attacking Russia. That was the beginning of the end for him.
Russia is in a much better position that are we, for we are a house of cards right now, and that house of cards has a foundation made of sand.
What we are doing in immoral. We are using Ukraine for a battlefield, and the Ukrainian people as the fodder. But then we shouldn't have goaded Putin into a conflict in the first place. There was absolutely no reason to do so, except to use our hegemony to create a war with Russia in hopes of gaining even greater power over other nations by trying to weaken Russia & overthrow Putin.
But the real devious reason to do what we are doing was to also weaken us so that freedom can be toppled , and the world delivered to elites that are sure they can make a better world, not for the world, but for themselves.
People like you refuse to see what is going on. Instead you still see us as this great powerhouse that cannot be defeated. I guarantee you that if WWIII is the result, we will not be able to perform today what we performed 80+ years ago.
We have a struggling economy, we are depleting out munitions & weapons, and Joe Biden is gutting our military. We no longer have the factories, and our workforce is so much less resilient than it was back in WWII. We are in tremendous debt. We are becoming so diverse that we no longer have the cohesion we had back in WWII. Diversity is a strength only if a common thread runs through the citizenry that unites them. Otherwise, diversity is a hinderance, not a positive. That diversity becomes magnified with the encouraged & promoted invasion along our southern border, as our leaders use our own tax money to destroy this nation and make her citizens vulnerable from within, and you worry about Ukraine.
While Nero didn't really play his fiddle while Rome burned, you cheerleaders are doing a pretty good imitation of that scenario.
So, who really had the ridiculous post? Who is playing the ridiculous game? Who are the people that are blind as to what is going on? Who are the useful idiots aiding & abetting the enemy from within? Who are being distracted from the real goal of creating a One World Government/New World Order?
Time for you & the rest of you cheerleaders to wake up & start seeing what is really going on here. We outnumber them, and we are still armed, but time is running out. Time to unite, Ukraine is lost. Zelenskyy already sold his people down the river to enrich himself and secure a position in what they are trying to achieve.
Hi Robert
There is a lot to unpack in your response and I appreciate it. Though I disagree with much of what you said not all of it.
So here goes
To the historical part. Germany and Russia started as “allies” but it was more an alliance of convenience. I have read several opinions that believe that Germany’s initial successes were due to Russia not being in an defensive position but preparing for an offense against Germany. In other words if Germany had not attacked Russia, Russia was going to attack Germany.
Your points on diversity and NWO, weakens economy and debt are all valid but from there we diverge
IMO Putin was not goaded into attacking Ukraine that was his plan all along. He never accepted Ukraine as a sovereign country. He once told president bush that George you know that Ukraine is not a real country. His ambitions were shown with Georgia Chechnya Crimea….. it is interesting that his words on Ukraine are almost identical to Hitler when referring to Russia bust down the door and the rest will fall. He miscalculated whether he ignored counsel to the contrary or more likely no one was willing to disagree with him. Again much like Hitler, his paranoia has been growing as well as his belief that he was the next czar to return Russia to its rightful place as a world power
.
To the house of cards, I would argue that as much trouble as we are in Russia is even worse. Their income is largely based on oil and gas exports and that has collapsed, the surpluses they had are gone and deficits have replaced them. Their income from military exports is gone, and with the performance of most of their equipment not likely to return. Their bankroll of Soviet military stockpiles are dwindling. The recent assault where they lost 5-7 bmp-1s shows they are scraping the bottom of the barrel. Then there is the loss of people both from the war and those who have fled to avoid the war. What has that done to the economy.
As to immoral, what is moral about putins invasion and his escalation to attacking civilian infrastructure?
Russia already has NATO nations Poland Lithuanian Latvia and Estonia on its borders and there has been no attack on Russia. Even if Ukraine joined NATO do you really believe NATO was going to attack Russia? Now Putin may have believed that but where is the evidence. As a bonus his actions have prompted Sweden and Finland to apply for NATO memberships well there’s a big whoops.
As to depleting arms, I have said several times what are these weapons stockpiles for? Why do we have them? To fight Canada or Mexico? England or France and Germany? They existed to fight a war with Russia which Russia started and they are being used for their intended purposes. When I say this some bring up China, again in my opinion some based on almost 40 years and the military and dozens of deployments a war with China will not involve tanks and artillery but naval and air resources none of which have been deleted by this war. If it devolves into abrams and bradleys it is already over
Finally the Ukrainians are fighting for their country a country Putin never recognized that is their right and I believe we should support them. This whole war is solely on putins shoulders and ego. I suppose you are saying we should have let Putin just take Ukraine well ask the 30 million or so who Stalin starved to death what they think or rather those whom did survive that tragedy. If Putin does regard Ukrainians as fellow Russian brothers he has an interesting way of showing that.
Sure I missed a few points doing this on a phone bus a bit difficult
Hope your day goes well
Keith
... and published in the Red Morning Star - the paper of the Communist Party of Great Britain.
Some Freepers frequent the strangest sites.
Gosh, maybe the Germans don’t want to get sucked into going to war with Russia? It didn’t turn out so good for them last time.
Perhaps it’s dawning on the Germans that powerful GLOBALIST forces did not want the Germans to have direct access to plentiful, cheap, good quality Russian natural gas through the Nord Stream pipeline network. The Poles and Ukrainians also did not want to see the Germans be able to avoid the easy money “transit fees” that those countries were getting from the pipelines that transited their lands.
Eliminating/preventing that cheap access to Russian energy was necessary for the globalists’ Deindustrialize Germany Project.
Good
Soros/Biden will let ukes die until the last US taxpayer dollar is spent.
it’s time for a ceasefire.
Will Z high heels beggar start paying us back?
This article is by a member of the German far-left Die Linke party. They famously worship Moscow whatever it does. They don’t represent many Germans holding only 5% of the seats in the Bundestag.
Everyone, including me who is in no way a war buff, knows that they had signed a pact Aug. 22, 1939. That pact spelled out as to how they would divide up Poland, along with the rest of eastern Europe. On Sept. 1, 1939 Germany invaded western Poland, about 2 weeks later the Soviet Union invaded the Poland's eastern border. By Sept. 22, 1939 they celebrated their complete capture of Poland.
While we both incorrectly referred to Russia, to be accurate we should have both used the Soviet Union, because as of 1922 Russia and the satellite nations were known & referred to as the Soviet Union.
At the same time the Soviet Union military began to also invade the Baltic states. Near the end of Nov. 1939 the Soviet Union entered Finland. In 3 1/2 months of fighting the Soviet Union had suffered about 127K dead & about 265K wounded.
Now it wasn't until June 22, 1941 that Germany decided to invade the Soviet Union. Regardless of who was planning to invade who, it doesn't really matter. The reality is that Germany had decided to invade the Soviet Union. It's amazing, even to historians, that the Soviet Union survived that invasion. It wasn't until Jan. 1, 1942 that the Soviet Union joined the Allies to take on the Axis alliance of German, Italy & Japan. but it still doesn't change the fact that Germany's decision to invade the Soviet Union was the beginning of their demise. Though it was by no means evident at the time. In fact, it remained to be a very tough victory, where at times it looked as though Germany would still prevail.
IMO Putin was not goaded into attacking Ukraine that was his plan all along.
We were ready to invade Cuba when the Soviet Union was attempting to put nuclear weapons in that island nation. Why would we do that? Could it be that we did not want that threat so close to our border? The answer is absolutely we didn't want that threat. Well, just like we have the right to secure the areas within our sphere of influence, so does Russia. There was a coup d'etat in Ukraine, and it was fomented by the Obama administration. That event caused Putin to react by once again taking back the Crimean, that Nikita Khrushchev gifted to Ukraine in 1954. When Russia, pre Soviet Union, captured the Crimea it wasn't in the control of a nation called Ukraine. It was under the control of Muslim Turkic Crimean Tatars who were under the influence of the Ottoman Empire.
When Putin decided to take back the Crimea, it was in retaliation for the coup d'etat when the sitting president who had agreed to hold the election early. By the consensus of foreign observers the sitting president had been legitimately elected. We know it was a coup d'etat that the Obama administration was involved in by the presence of Victoria Nuland handing out cookies, but even further damaging evidence exists:
Leaked audio reveals embarrassing U.S. exchange on Ukraine, EU
F*** the EU: Alleged audio of US diplomat Victoria Nuland swearing
Until you accept that the Obama administration orchestrated the revolution & the ensuing violence in brought, then I am wasting my time trying to inform you. They did, and it was indeed a coup d'etat.
I'll just say, that I am not interested in your opinion, because in your opinion you are on the side of the good & the righteous, for you are trying to preserve the freedoms of the Ukrainians. Problem is they have never known or had freedoms. Just the illusions of freedom, as they were being manipulated from the very beginning.
But the reality is that you are on the side of evil that plotted & schemed to engage in armed conflict, as well as, holding up a man as a sort of saint among men who agreed to sacrifice his country to become a warzone, and his citizens to become fodder for a proxy war. The proxy war has many goals, but it's stated goal is to weaken Russia & hopefully foment the ouster of Putin. The unstated goals are to facilitate the laundering of federal money into the defense industry, of which they are all heavily invested in, and also to finance the Democrat Party. The other major unspoken goal is to create a distraction from the big unstated goals. The big unstated goals are to weaken the U.S. by promoting the invasion along our southern border, and to spend our nation's money like drunken sailors, sending jobs to foreign countries which guts the middle class, and thereby creating disunity. To further this goal is the decision to create warring factions within the nation creating more disharmony & division. Not sure what it takes for you to start coming to the realization that you no longer live in the nation you were born into. That nation has been taken over by forces that have executed that long march through our institutions that no longer support law & order, the American dream, private property, or freedom. In essence, each & every person supporting this conflict & our involvement in it are either useful idiots or they are part of the plan to destroy this nation & are your handlers & influencers.
His (Putin's)ambitions were shown with Georgia Chechnya Crimea
Putin was asked in by the Georgia president to quell a rebellion. Putin went in, quelled it and left. He did not annex even 1 square inch of Georgia into Russia.
Chechnya was a a country controlled by two Muslim tribes that Russia defeated in 1859 by Russia. They were granted autonomy in 1920 by the Bolsheviks. They declared their independence from Russia in 1992. They then broke into 2 republics, and the CF ensued from their. Too long of a story to go into here, but the short version is they brought a lot of hardship upon themselves by engaging in terroristic acts. Russia had every right to strike back against the terroristic acts, just as we always did.
I addressed Crimea already above.
To the house of cards, I would argue that as much trouble as we are in Russia is even worse.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Russia's national debt is a quarter of a trillion dollars, Please remember, this is government debt only, Total external debt (more regularly quoted) is over 500 Billion (half a trillion). While U.S. debt is 31. 5 trillion dollars, and the unfunded liabilities (from 2019) are about $122 trillion in payments the government owes and has promised its citizens — without the funds to fulfill those obligations. I'm sure that figure is far greater than that now.
Even if Ukraine joined NATO do you really believe NATO was going to attack Russia?
Not important what I believe or you believe. What's important is what Putin believes. Just like I said above; we were about to invade the island nation of Cuba because Russia was trying to place nuclear weapons there.
Do you think that Cuba would have used them? Americans were certainly concerned about the prospect of nuclear weapons being placed there. They weren't debating where Cuba would use them or not.
Ukrainians are fighting for their country a country Putin never recognized that is their right
That's a far stretch from his statement that Ukraine is not a real country, as history tells us that is more of a factual statement then it is a fictitious one. He had not moved against Ukraine for the 23 years prior to the retaking of the Crimea in 2014. Russia actually had a more solid case of the Crimea being historically Russian land than Ukraine did.
Bottom line is you are supporting extremely evil forces. You are being deceived, just like Satan so convincingly deceives, that you are supporting the good & righteous endeavor of securing the sovereignty & freedom of Ukraine. Which is so beyond ludicrous if you look what they are doing to your own nation by allowing a much greater invasion, in size & scope, along our southern border. Do you think that 5 5 million person invasion of our nation will have a positive impact upon you & your family's lives? I honestly wonder if there is a functioning brain cell amongst the lot of you. For anyone with critical thinking skills would quickly recognize the disconnect you are being told about Ukraine and what is happening to your own country.
Sorry, I know of no other way to put it , other than you are a useful idiot, and ever one of you cheerleaders are the same, or you are an evil person who supports the destruction of this nation. This nation has not been perfect, but it has, until recently, done far more good for the entire world, then it has done bad. But it is now controlled by evil people, and you are assisting them and following their orders like a bunch of lemmings jumping off the cliff.
You keep proving that my post you originally responded to as being ridiculous, as being totally accurate about you cheerleaders. There is nothing that can be said to get you to see the reality, because none of you can get past the phrase; Russian invaded Ukraine.
Go to the 23:30 mark to the 24:50 mark and listen to the comments of an Australian collogue & observer.
The whole video is worth the listen, but I want you to listen to that 1 minute first.
Okay well have a great day I am obviously not near as smart and informed as you
But perhaps you can educate me on how is it that Ukraine has lost all their professional army Russia has lost a fraction and yet Russia has lost over half the territory they initially took and feel the need to mobilize a million folks to fight the destroyed Ukraine military
Putin came in very soft with about 80,000 troops. He did so to keep the destruction & casualties of civilians low and destruction to infrastructure to a minimal. He thought the resistance would be low. He miscalculated.
He ran into a Ukrainian force that far outnumbered the force he brought to the fight. He also faced a fighting force that had been trained & armed to a much higher degree than he had anticipated. Even facing that though, they captured a good deal of land mass. But spreading the Russian forces over larger land mass, means that it becomes harder to retain. Which of course happened. Putin is no longer is operating under that false assumption, supposedly,
Most of the Russian force were new recruits who were told that they were amassing along the border as a training exercise.
Listen to the audio only youtube discussion I sent you. You will hear a more realistic take on what is happening over there.
Here is another worthwhile article to read:
Is a Real War about to Break Out in Ukraine?
I am not the enemy, and I am not trying to prove I am smarter than you either. I'm trying to get you to realize that you are being lied to, with both what is going on, and that this is absolutely not a humanitarian campaign being waged. It's pure evil at work.
Stop listening to the propaganda and start seeking out the truth. Start employing critical thinking skills. Question why they would be so concerned about Ukraine, while they show zero concern about what is happening to our nation. Once you start to do that you begin to see that the face they are projecting to the public, is a far cry from their true intentions. Because you do not sacrifice your own family to save a family that is thousands of miles removed which you have never met. Nor do you believe those who have been lying to you for several years now. The same people are are intent on taking away freedoms and robbing you blind, while they enrich themselves & their families with the money they are taking from you. It's important for people to awaken from their slumber and start realizing how they are screwing you. You kind of realize it, but you still don't quite believe it.
You say that you are not smarter than me but I should employ critical thinking.
Well I think I do and some of your numbers are suspect 80,000 don’t think so more like 200,000 and I really don’t mean to be insulting but Macgregor has been wrong almost 100%. I listen to him but shake my head. Kiev will fall in 3 days, Kherson will never fall to Ukrainians, November offensive, December offensive, January offensive….
You still didn’t answer the question if Macgregor says the entire trained uke army has been destroyed and the Russians only lost 80,000 (which would be the entire invading Russian force by your count at least numbers wise)why do they need to draft one million more men, buy drones from Iran and munitions from NK
you are telling me that a destroyed army now full of conscripts has held the Russian army at bay for 11 months with just a handful of western weapons and the second largest military in the world needs 50000 mercs and convicts to get any victory
That is my attempt at critical thinking
As to the rest I am fully aware of the corruption here and elsewhere stolen elections, dimes difference between republicans and dims. Fbi, nsa cia doj congress all corrupt. Deep state WEF Schaumburg soros xiden
So with all of that the proper response was to let Putin annex Ukraine
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