Reports: NATO-member Norway Follows the Netherlands, Denmark to Donate F-16 Fighters to Ukraine

Breitbart ^ | 08/24/2023 | SIMON KENT

[buwaya]

Poland has been invaded by Russia or what’s now Russia a half-dozen times or so.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

—> I hope the Ukrainians can protect these new airplanes.

I hope the globohomopedos in control of ukraine are defeated with fury.

[glorgau]

> It seems that “donating” what was planned to be scrapped is a fine bit of show business.

Bingo. The intent is to make a show, not a difference.

[Daveinyork]

IMO the best way to defeat Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is to unleash American oil and gas production. it would bankrupt Russia. You may have noticed that Russia didn’t invade Ukraine when energy was cheap during the Trump administration, and invaded during the Obama and Biden administrations when energy was/is expensive.

[ransomnote]

I think this is a show to ‘justify’ Biden flushing more tax dollars down the Ukraine.

[BlackbirdSST]

With the 61 already committed, the total will be 135

How many Uke pilots are rated for the F-16?

[PIF]

I have no idea hows many went for training or how man in the on-going training. But, they have a gut of pilots and a shortage of planes, so I imagine they will fill the ranks handily

[Worldtraveler once upon a time]

It would be interesting to try and make a complete list of all the photo-op / diplomatic visits made to Ukraine by European and US politicians. It would be longer than many might imagine.

[Paul R.]

Any info. on pace of deliveries? Denmark and The Netherlands were just a trickle. This will bump that up, but likely still not exactly a flood. (I’m assuming 20-25 F-16’s from Norway by the end of 2024, at most.)

Who else is retiring fighter jets?

[Paul R.]

There is a LOT of surveillance support from NATO countries flying missions near the relevant borders. Not over Russia or Belarus, of course, and not over Ukraine. YouTuber “Suchomimus” had a pretty illustrative vid on that a few days ago.

I’m still unsure how far out NATO can detect Russian aircraft or, say, S-300 launches.

[Paul R.]

That would make quite a difference. It’d take some time, but quite a bit less time if we’d embarked on such an energy program the day our intel indicated that yes, Pooty would invade. Plus the benefits to the US would be enormous.

[Paul R.]

As iof they all called ahead to find if a missile barrage wasn't planned for that day...."

Well, pretty simple, the way that works is that Russia refrains from heavy bombardments close to visiting dignitaries. Knocking off a NATO country PM or something like that would not go over well.

Even with Norway's donation, I'd be surprised if Ukraine actually received over 30 ready-to-go F16's by the end of 2024. Trained pilots won't be the problem.

Granted, that could change if other countries retiring fighter jets chime in. The US certainly has plenty to dispose of.

[Worldtraveler once upon a time]

--- "...pretty simple, the way that works is that Russia refrains from heavy bombardments close to visiting dignitaries."

For this to be, there would have to be back-channel communications between combatants. Is that your assertion?

Were that true, between US and European elite, there could be every day a state or celebrity visit. Better cover than actual air defense.....

[CodeJockey]

Very bizarre war. Seems if Uke lives matter, these jets would be fast tracked to the arena. Something tells me this war is more about politics than victory.

[Worldtraveler once upon a time]

--- "Something tells me this war is more about politics than victory>/B>."

You, sir, have said a mouthful! Kudos.

[Paul R.]

These trips are usually announced and public knowledge in advance. When not, sure, the UK Foreign Ministry, for example, would surely alert their Russian counterparts that some significant official would be arriving.

Were that true, between US and European elite, there could be every day a state or celebrity visit. Better cover than actual air defense.....

I thought of that too, but, Ukraine is in actuality a pretty big place, with lots of targets. So, it might be possible to "cover" Kyiv (at least the airport, downtown, major gov't offices, etc.) on any given day, but Russia could just hit Odessa or Kharkhiv or Kherson or Dnipro or Lviv or...

[blitz128]

That may be,
A. Doesn’t change the fact that Russia has done its fair share of invading,

B how many times has Ukraine invaded Russia?

C. Then why didn’t he invade Poland, militarily Ukraine was no threat IMO just the last low hanging fruit he thought he could grab

D. He chose unwisely

[blitz128]

No idea, all training data comes from how we do the pipeline, with that said. This is war and things tend to happen faster and for specific purposes as I discussed earlier

I would imagine they have a fair number of English speaking pilot, for airlines English is required

[Worldtraveler once upon a time]

--- "I would imagine they have a fair number of English speaking pilot, for airlines English is required"

Being curious on all sides of things, I come up with the following, all recent:

"Eight Ukrainian pilots ready to train on F-16s"
Source: https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2023/08/04/eight-ukrainian-pilots-ready-to-train-on-f-16s-00109827

" 'Only 8 Pilots Have Adequate English' | Language Hurdle Pushes Ukraine's F-16 Timeline To Mid 2024"
Source: https://www.news18.com/videos/world/only-8-pilots-have-adequate-english-language-hurdle-pushes-ukraine-s-f-16-timeline-to-mid-2024-8534893.html

"An initial cadre of Ukrainian pilots may not be fully qualified to fly F-16s until next summer at the earliest." In "Ukraine Situation Report: F-16 Pilot Training May Be Delayed Until January"
Source: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-f-16-pilot-training-may-be-delayed-until-january

"The Ukrainian pilots will need to go though 'significant English-language training,' to be ready to fly the F-16, and that will take some time, Singh said. Additionally, the total number of pilots who will need training will be determined by the Ukrainians. 'Ukraine will be the one, and I think it is still putting together how many pilots they have that are going to be able to be trained,' she said. 'I don't have those numbers yet'." Aug. 21, 2023
Source: https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3499633/us-open-to-training-ukrainian-f-16-pilots-if-needed/

[buwaya]

“B how many times has Ukraine invaded Russia?”

This is an interesting question. Parts of Ukraine were at one time parts of the Empire of the Golden Horde, the Tatar Khanate, or the Turkish empire, or Poland-Lithuania, or Austria-Hungary, etc. All of these warred with Russia at one time or another.

Ukraine as a “native” polity never invaded Russian lands that I know of, those times that they had their own state - in the days of the Cossack Hetmanate say.

Ukrainians have often joined others who were invading Russia. One notable case was when Ivan Mazepa supported the invading Swedes of Charles XII.