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Clinton's Allies in Bosnia - The 7th Mujahedeen Brigade
BalkanPeace ^ | 2001 | unkwn.

Posted on 09/07/2001 7:36:19 AM PDT by vooch

7th Bosnian Muslim Brigade, based in Zenica - the international Islamic mercenary force known as the mujahedeen

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7th Bosnian Muslim Brigade, based in Zenica - the international Islamic mercenary force known as the mujahedeen


Alija Izetbegovic with memebrs of 7th Brigade

"... The first and foremost of such conclusions is surely the one on the incompatibility of Islam and non-Islamic systems. There can be no peace or coexistence between the "Islamic faith" and non- Islamic societies and political institutions. ... Islam clearly excludes the right and possibility of activity of any strange ideology on its own turf. Therefore, there is no question of any laicistic principles, and the state should be an expression and should support the moral concepts of the religion. ..." page 22 "The Islamic Declaration" book ("Islamska deklaracija"), written by Mr. Alija Izetbegovic, Bosnian Muslim leader.

In preparing the ground for the conflicts between Bosnian Cristians (Croats and Serbs) and Bosnian Muslims, residents of different Arab countries who in the B&H had recognized the elements and challenge of “a holy war” - jihad. Coming from different Arab countries, most of them were from Yemen, Algeria, Egypt, Tunisia and Afghanistan, and bringing with them experience from a war from some of the Islamic trouble spots.

Mujahedin, or «holy warriors», is a generic term for Muslim volunteers fighting in the former Yugoslavia. Many Mujahedin originate from Muslim countries outside the former Yugoslavia. It was reported that the Mujahedin began arriving in BiH as early as June 1992. (Tom Post & Joel Brand, «Help from the Holy Warriors», Newsweek, 5 October 1992, at 52). Reports on the number of Mujahedin forces operating in BiH vary, but it is unlikely that the Mujahedin forces have made a significant military contribution to the BiH Government's war effort (Christopher Lockwood, «Muslim Nations Offer Troops», Daily Telegraph, 14 July 1993, at 14. According to Lockwood, Muslim nations depended on Western logistical support to deliver troops to BiH. He concludes that the same logistical troubles which kept the Muslim troops promised in July of 1993 from joining UN forces in the UN declared «safe havens» also limited the number of Muslim volunteers in the BiH armed forces. He states that the number of Mujahedin in BiH never exceeded three or four hundred. See also Mohamed Sid-Ahmad, «Muslim World Between Two Fires», War Report, January 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 63744. However, the Belgrade Daily, Vecernje Novosti, reported that as many as 30,000 Mujahedin were operating in BiH. «Other Reports in Brief: Muslims from Abroad Settling in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Belgrade Daily Claims», BBC, Summary of World Broadcasts, 19 September 1992. )

The Mujahedin forces came from several Muslim states and many of them were veterans of the Afghan war. (Andrew Hogg, «Arabs Join in Bosnia Battle», Sunday Times, 30 August 1992)

Reports submitted to the Commission of Experts alleged that the Mujahedin have been responsible for the mutilation and killing of civilians, rape, looting, the destruction of property, and the expulsion of non-Muslim populations. The deputy commander of the BiH Army, Colonel Stjepan Siber, has said, «it was a mistake to let them [the Mujahedin] here . . . They commit most of the atrocities and work against the interests of the Muslim people. They have been killing, looting and stealing.» Andrew Hogg, «Terror Trail of the Mujahedin», Sunday Times, 27 June 1993.

Several reports indicate that the Mujahedin were placed under the command of the BiH Army.(See «Some 400 Mujahedin Volunteers Fighting with Bosnian Muslims», Agence France Presse, 22 September 1992; Andrew Hogg, «Arabs Join in Bosnia Battle», Sunday Times, 30 August 1992; see also Charles McLoed, ECMM, «Report on Inter-Ethnic Violence in Vitez, Busovaca and Zenica», April 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 20178- 20546, at 20207; Croatian Information Centre, Weekly Bulletin, No. 9, 4 October 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 36434-36438, at 36435; US Department of State, 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 62612-62877, at 62648, 62724, 62730, and 62756)

The Mujahedin forces were closely associated with the 5th Corps, the 6th and 7th Zenica Brigades, the 7th Travnik Brigade, and the 45th Muslim Brigade which belongs to the 6th Corps in Konjic of the Army of BiH (US Department of State, 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 62612-62877, at 62648; see also Croatian Information Centre, Weekly Bulletin, No. 9, 4 October 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 36434-36438, at 36435; «Continuing Clashes in Northwestern Enclave Reported from Both Sides», BBC, Summary of World Broadcasts, 14 December 1993.)

They also allegedly fought alongside the Muslim Police, the Krajiska Brigade from Travnik, units of Kosovo Muslims, Albanian soldiers, and paramilitary groups such as the «Green Legion» and the «Black Swans».(Charles McLoed, ECMM, Report on Inter-Ethnic Violence in Vitez, Busovaca and Zenica, April 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 20178-20546, at 20207; Croatian Information Centre, Weekly Bulletin, No. 9, 4 October 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 36434-36438, at 36435; US Department of State, 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 62612-62877, at 62648, 62724, 62730, and 62756.)

Reports also indicate that the Mujahedin had the support of President Izetbegovic and his government. *57 This was demonstrated in the Bihac pocket, where the Mujahedin joined BiH forces loyal to Izetbegovic. Together, these forces battled separatist forces who entered into a separate peace treaty with Bosnian Serbs («Continuing Clashes in Northwestern Enclave Reported form Both Sides», BBC, Summary of World Broadcasts, 14 December 1993)

In Zenica, between 31 August and 2 September 1992, 250 Mujahedin troops allegedly come to BiH from Turkey, Qatar, Bahrain and Iran. These troops worked alongside the Green Legion and HOS paramilitary groups stationed in Zenica. The Mujahedin allegedly also operated a camp at Arnauti.(Charles McLeod, ECMM, Report on Inter-Ethnic Violence in Vitez, Buscovaca and Zenica, April 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 29043-29131, at 29064; Biljaja Plavsic, Republic of Serbia Presidency, To Serbs All Over the World, 30 September 1992, IHRLI Doc. No. 48072- 48093, at 48081)

It was reported that a unit of the Mujahedin, called the «Guerilla», participated in the 16 April 1993 attack on Vitez and attempted to exchange 10 HVO hostages for foreign prisoners held in HVO prisons. (US Department of State, 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 62612-62877, at 62629; see also Charles McLeod, ECMM, Report on Inter-Ethnic Violence in Vitez, Busovaca and Zenica, April 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 29043-29131, at 29072 (attack on Vitez).

The Croatian Ministry of Defence is reported to have provided information about an event occurring in June 1993 -- a joint BiH/Mujahedin unit reportedly attacked Travnik, allegedly forcing 4,000 Croatian civilians and military personnel out of the town. (US Department of State, 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 62612-62877, at 62650. Media reports however claim that Croats left Travnik voluntarily. The incident was investigated by an organization, which reported that the forceful eviction did not take place)

The Mujahedin allegedly fought alongside the 6th Muslim Brigade from Zenica and the Krajiska Brigade from Travnik. Witnesses stated that they saw Mujahedin operating in small patrols ahead of the approaching BiH troops.

According to HVO intelligence, Mujahedin forces arrived in Travnik sometime before June 1993 and came from Algeria, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. The Mujahedin trained at a camp at Mehurici, where they were allegedly financed and equipped by a man named Abdulah, the owner of the «Palma» video store in Travnik. Once in town, the Mujahedin were linked to the Seventh Brigade of the BiH Army, and were reportedly assembled into units of 10 to 15 men, and moved about on regular patrols. The Mujahedin created tension in Travnik in the days prior to the attack on 3 June. One witness stated that the Mujahedin directed their actions towards the HVO personnel in town. They allegedly demonstrated, shouted slogans and fired their rifles in the air.

Mujahedin allegedly participated in the attack on Maljine in Novi Travnik on 8 June 1993, killing 20 to 30 HVO members and transporting Croatian women and children to the training centre at Mehurici.(Croatian Information Centre, Weekly Bulletin, No. 1, 9 August 1993)

In Konjic, the Mujahedin were part of a 100 member force stationed at Liscioi and led by Haso Hakalovic. The unit was assembled in February 1993 and included some Kosovo Muslims and members of the Black Swans from the Igman mountain region. (US Department of State, 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 62612-62877, at 62756)

Allegedly, Mujahedin troops killed and expelled villagers, and looted and burned homes, when they moved against the Jablanica- Konjic area. The Mujahedin troops and members of the Black Swans reportedly conducted occasional raids without members of BiH forces. (at IHRLI Doc. No. 62752 and 62756. The village of Vrci was attacked on 25 May, and the village of Radesine was attacked on 10 June. See also Tadeusz Mazowiecki, Fifth Periodic Report on the Situation of Human Rights in the Territory of the Former Yugoslavia, U.N. Doc. E/CN.4/1994/47, 17 November 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 52399-52435, at 52405 (alleging that the Mujahedin were involved in attacks at Kopjari on 21 October, Doljani on 27 and 28 June, and Maljane on 8 June). UN Special Rapporteur Mazowiecki claims that corpses of Mujahedin victims displayed evidence of protracted cruelty and mutilation. )

Reportedly, the Mujahedin volunteers arrived in Konjic in small groups. It was reported that they were from Afghanistan and that they claimed to be students. They were allegedly armed with Hekleri automatic weapons and former JNA equipment. Some Mujahedin were reportedly former students with no military experience.

Mujahedin forces were present in Mostar since early June 1993. They were reportedly stationed in the Santica neighbourhood on the Muslim/HVO front, where they manned bunkers, usually in groups of six or seven, armed with 7.62 millimetre semi-automatic weapons, machine-guns, and Zolja anti-tank weapons. They were billeted in a building they shared with the Muslim military police on the east bank of the Neretva River. The Mujahedin forces apparently left Mostar on 15 August. (US Department of State, 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 62612-62877, at 62742 and 62677. For more details on the location of the Neretva living quarters, see Id. at 62739)

FRY reported that the Mujahedin began operations near Teslic in July and August of 1992. Troops from Saudi Arabia allegedly killed three Serbian Territorial Defence members and placed the victims' severed heads on poles near the «Tesanj turret». (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Second Report Submitted to the Commission of Experts, 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 28401-29019, at 28533)

Beheadings of Serbs by Mujahedin forces have also been reported in other areas.

The Mujahedin were also alleged to be part of the forces that invaded the village of Trusina near Foca on 15 April 1993. According to the report, attackers wore white ribbons on their arms and fought beside Albanian Muslim troops. Twenty-two civilians reportedly died in the attack. (US Department of State, 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 62612-62877, at 62648; Croatian Information Centre, Weekly Bulletin, No. 9, 4 October 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 36434-36438, at 36435)

The Mujahedin allegedly performed crude circumcisions upon Serbian police forces, who were later treated by an American surgeon at the Kosevo hospital in Sarajevo. (Letter dated 7 December 1992 from the Deputy Representative of the US to U.N. Secretary-General, U.N. Doc. S/24918, 8 December 1992, IHRLI Doc. No. 3160-3177, at 3173; Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Second Report Submitted to the Commission of Experts, 1993, IHRLI Doc. No. 28401-29019, at 28566)



This photograph was seized from Saudi Arabian fighters captured in Crni Vrh near Teslic, Bosnia. A Muslim solder displays the severed head of Blagoje Blagojevic, a Serb from the village of Jasenovo near Teslic.


The severed heads of three Serbs (identified as Blagoje Blagojevic, Nenad Petkovic, and Brana Djuric) beheaded by Muslim fighters. This picture was seized from Saudi Arabian solders captured near Teslic in Bosnia.



7th Brigade, loyal Islamic force
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/timbeat4.htm

Director of the U.S. Congress' Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional warfare: "Some Call It Peace"
http://members.tripod.com/Balkania/resources/geostrategy/bodansky_peace/bp_part1.html

7th Muslim "Liberation" Brigade
http://www.wargamer.com/sp/military/bih/armija/foreign.asp

Washington Post - Iranians Form Terror Force in Bosnia
http://impact.users.netlink.co.uk/namir/sreport.htm

Bosnia losing the pluralistic character
http://www.bosnet.org/archive/bosnet.w3archive/9501/msg00252.html


No future for Muslims in Europe unless they have a state of their own
http://www.amber.ucsf.edu/homes/ross/public_html/bosnia_/mus.txt

US Senate Document; Clinton-Approved Iranian Arms Transfers Help Turn Bosnia into Militant Islamic Base
http://www.senate.gov/~rpc/releases/1997/iran.htm

A BOSNIAN VILLAGE'S TERRORIST
http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Aktuelno/BIVSE/BiH/wpost11032000_e.html


The Second Coming of Alija Izetbegovic
http://www.balkanpeace.org/our/our05.shtml

Selling the Bosnian Myth to America: Part I-Buyer Beware
http://reagan.com/HotTopics.main/HotMike/document-12.11.2000.3.html


Army suspects munitions manufactured for Bosnian army
http://archive.nandotimes.com/newsroom/nt/0204yugfff.html

Similarity - The 13th Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS Handschar
http://www.wssob.com/013divhnd.html

Jihad - the "Holly War"
http://blaskic.croat.net/jihad.htm
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This web site, intended for research purposes, contains copyright material included "for fair use only"


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: balkans
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1 posted on 09/07/2001 7:36:19 AM PDT by vooch
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To: Hoplite, Ranger, Bluester, DTA, Balkans, crazykatz
Some of Hoplite's buddies in action. Hoplite's Humanitarian Warriors supplied, funded, and promoted these paramilitary killers thereby smearing our country with their crimes.

The ICTY has determined that defacto command responsibility (ie supply, funding, and promotion) is enough evidence for proving guilt in the event of war crimes. It is only just that those Humanitarian Warriors who supported such paramilitaries as the 7th Mujahedeen face trial for their crimes. For more see USFM 27-10 chp. 6, para 366

could someone pluz post the photos which accompined the article they are illuminating.

2 posted on 09/07/2001 7:42:27 AM PDT by vooch
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To: vooch
The Serbs declared a Jihad against the Muslims in Bosnia starting in April of '92. The Muj show up in June.

This whole cause and effect thing escapes you, doesn't it.

3 posted on 09/07/2001 9:36:46 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
hmmm....I'll take your post as implict assent that the Humanitarian Warriors are proud of their support of the 7th Mujahdeen and the corrupt poster boy.....Sarcibey.

as for cause and effect.....perhaps the Lisbon Agreement may ring a bell ?

4 posted on 09/07/2001 9:44:48 AM PDT by vooch
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To: vooch
Great, tell me how the Lisbon agreement forced people like Arkan to, against their will, rape, murder, plunder, and generally act like modern day vandals.

All the West's fault. Just keep repeating your mantra.

5 posted on 09/07/2001 9:54:33 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
>>>The Serbs declared a Jihad against the Muslims<<<<

Dear Holplite,

Oops, again those difficult foreign words.Here is the cheat sheet:

From Webster''s

Main Entry: ji·had
Pronunciation: ji-'häd, chiefly British -'had
Function: noun
Etymology: Arabic jihAd
Date: 1869
1 : a holy war waged on behalf of Islam as a religious duty 2 : a crusade for a principle or belief

If you haven;t heard, jihad is the term used to describe holy war against the infidels ( Christians, Jews, Hindus, Animists,and everybody else)

Your comments are perfect example what happens when zeal is not followed by basic education.

Get some courses at Community college. It is cheaper than veery expensive help.

start from here

or, if reading is too hard for you, here is crash course in pictures:

This photograph was seized from Saudi Arabian fighters captured in Crni Vrh near Teslic, Bosnia. A Muslim solder displays the severed head of Blagoje Blagojevic, a Serb from the village of Jasenovo near Teslic.

6 posted on 09/07/2001 11:31:40 AM PDT by DTA
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To: DTA
Wow! Thanks. Have a pic for yourself.

That's April '92, sparky. And those dead people are dead simply because they're Muslim, not for anything they have done.

Your comment is a perfect example of what happens when basic education comes face to face with such advanced concepts as irony.

2 a : the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning

7 posted on 09/07/2001 12:11:59 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: DTA, hoplite
Thanks for the photos

lez figgur this one out. Hoplite's allies are photo'd gleefully holding up heads of their beheaded victims. Hoplite's enemies are photo'd verfiying (albeit brutally) if the bad guys are still a threat.........

hmmmmmmm beheading vs. verification

and still through all that Hoplite refuses to condemn the 7th Mujahedeen which BTW fought a ferocious campaign against the loyalist Muslims under Fikret Abdic (who also happened to be the legally elected President of BiH)

8 posted on 09/07/2001 1:47:39 PM PDT by vooch
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To: Balkans, pericles
and still Hoppie fails to see the key issue here namely

The guys doing the beheading were supplied, funded, & promoted by Clinton et. al........therefore, somewhere, someplace our country is besmirched with the blood of those beheaded victims.

It was done with our tax dollars, by our elected officials.....Hoppie and therein lies the difference.

9 posted on 09/07/2001 1:51:46 PM PDT by vooch
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To: Hoplite
Hoplite, you are great source.

Quote from Canadian Ambassador to Yugoslavia, J. Bissett. who was there at the time:

In March 1992, each of the three leaders: Izetbegovic for the Muslims, Boban for the Croats, and Karadzic for the Serbs, signed the so-called Lisbon Agreement. Among diplomats in Belgrade there was general relief and for the first time a sense of hope for the future. Alas it was not to be.
Within days of the Lisbon Agreement, the United States Ambassador, Warren Zimmerman flew to Sarajevo and met with Izetbegovic. Upon finding that Izetbegovic was having second thoughts about the agreement he had signed in Lisbon, the Ambassador suggested that if he withdrew his signature, the United States would grant recognition to Bosnia as an independent state. Izetbegovic then withdrew his signature and renounced the agreement.
Within days the war had spread to Bosnia.
end of quote.

As you rightfully mentioned, pictures are from April 1992, AFTER Bosnian Muslims unconstitutionally declared independence of Bosnia. That happened after Lisbon agreement was torpedoed by Zimmerman and Izetbegovic. (pics appeared in TIME originally)

All innocent deaths are regretable and all criminals should be punished.

paramilitaries from the picture should be punished for war crime. Warren Zimmerman and Izetbegovic should be punished for CRIME AGAINST PEACE, like Nazi criminals in Nuremberg

Hoplite, you can change hair colour, you can change accent, but you can not change the facts.

Ugly facts come back to haunt you.Only communists and liberals disregard the facts as something irrelevant. And you are neither, aren't you?

10 posted on 09/07/2001 1:53:28 PM PDT by DTA
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To: vooch
Do you know for sure that those people are dead there? I always thought they looked like they were cringing.

If they are dead, how were they killed? Notice that the woman's white vest has no blood on it whatsoever - none on her hair or hands either. The other man doesn't show any stains on his sage-colored vest, nor does the man in the black leather jacket with the white socks show any evidence of violence.

If these people were killed, how were they killed. It looks too clean to have been done by shooting.

Those "soldiers" with the painted faces - has anyone identified them? This photo reminds me of the photo shoots that the West is doing these days of the Albanian "rebels" in Macedonia - they have that same "set-up" style.

11 posted on 09/07/2001 2:07:55 PM PDT by joan
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To: joan
If you look at the head of the person lying closest to the two soldiers, you'll see what looks like a pool of blood. It could be the reflection of the brick on water, but I think it's blood.
12 posted on 09/07/2001 2:50:42 PM PDT by constitutiongirl
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To: joan
I just love this picture because it always brings out the B.S. artists in full force.

Shame on you, Joan, we've been over this before.

13 posted on 09/07/2001 2:55:31 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: constitutiongirl
The whole pavement is wet; it looks like it had been raining that day. How do you explain that man's white collar?
14 posted on 09/07/2001 3:05:04 PM PDT by joan
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To: constitutiongirl
Also, do you know the names of any of those "soldiers" or people on the ground - you'd think with such wide circulation of the photo we'd have names and photos of them with their identities? How do you know those people on the ground are not Serbs anyway?

Those people do not even look like any photos of Serbs I've seen.

15 posted on 09/07/2001 3:11:21 PM PDT by joan
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To: joan
I wasn't even making a guess at the identities of the people on the ground. I just said it looks like a pool of blood. My brother was shot in the head and bled out, face down and he didn't have any blood on the back of his head or the back of his shirt. It ran under the front of his body towards his feet. It looks like the two people closest to the 'kicking' soldier are cringing. Their fingers look 'fisted' and tight.
16 posted on 09/07/2001 3:29:02 PM PDT by constitutiongirl
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To: joan
Also, Joan, I distrust 'photo-journalism' as much as I distrust print journalism. A photographer can put any 'slant' he wants onto a single photo. I'd like to see every single shot he took from the beginning to the end.
17 posted on 09/07/2001 3:37:59 PM PDT by constitutiongirl
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To: constitutiongirl
"It looks like the two people closest to the 'kicking' soldier are cringing. Their fingers look 'fisted' and tight."

Yes, I agree, and the coloring of their ears, sides of their faces, and fingers looks like that of the living.

Do you know how long it takes the coloring to drain from someone's complexion after they've been killed? I mean, do they pale immediately, in several minutes, in hours...?

18 posted on 09/07/2001 3:40:30 PM PDT by joan
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To: joan
I have no idea. Maybe a couple of doctors will find their way to this thread and let us know.
19 posted on 09/07/2001 4:02:12 PM PDT by constitutiongirl
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To: constitutiongirl, Hoplite, vooch, joan
A kick in the head is a lot better I would say than no head at all. Those civilians suffered less at the hands of those uniformed men than Rodney King or Abner Loumia did at the hands of American police.

Besides, better to be safe than sorry and make sure those civilians have their faces down and hands exposed, they might be hiding a weapon that can be used when your back is turned. I find this photo that Hoplite likes to show not horrifying at all.

What I find horrifying is that Clinton turned the power of the USA into supplying the head cutting Islam Jihadists.

20 posted on 09/07/2001 4:04:48 PM PDT by Pericles
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To: DTA
And did Izetbegovic and Zimmerman go about planning and then executing a scheme involving the cleansing of 70% of Bosnia and bring back Concentration Camps to Europe after a 47 year hiatus?

No, they didn't, did they.

Lisbon would have resulted in the partitioning of Bosnia into 3 ethnically based areas, and the Croats, Muslims, and Serbs were mixed up enough to make it an unworkable scheme, given what was transpiring next door.

The Lisbon plan, by the way, allotted 44% of Bosnia to the Serbs (in discontiguous lumps), yet in '92 they went and grabbed an extra 26% of the country.

Just to show that they were bargaining in good faith, I suppose.

21 posted on 09/07/2001 4:14:00 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Pericles
King and Louima got to face their tormentors in court and they're not dead.

Thanks for helping to illustrate post #13.

In 1993 Iran offered to provide 10,000 troops to help secure the safe areas of Srebrenica, Zepa, and Goradze.

Those troops were turned down.

I wonder why that was...

22 posted on 09/07/2001 4:31:51 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
Camps... those without barb wire, gun towers - right? Or you mean the concnentration camp on football field of Prishtina?
23 posted on 09/07/2001 4:57:54 PM PDT by Alexandre
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To: Alexandre
Go away and read some more Living Marxism articles.

Back issues, of course.

24 posted on 09/07/2001 5:02:20 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
All you have to say, braindead one?
25 posted on 09/07/2001 5:14:18 PM PDT by Alexandre
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To: Hoplite
This whole cause and effect thing escapes you, doesn't it.

Oh c'mon, you're full of sh#t on that one, Hoplite - who illegally seceded first? Was it the Serbs who decided to forcefully tear apart the country first? Of course, shame on those evil Serbs for not promptly destroying all their churches and cultural landmarks and meekly giving way to Mr Islamic Manifesto Izetbegovic. How dare they fight back, and - gasp - even get the upper hand. Surely they all deserve to have their heads chopped off by the noble mujadeen, right?

26 posted on 09/07/2001 5:20:37 PM PDT by bob808
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To: Alexandre
hoppie is not braindead...his head is just so far up klintoon's A--h---e that he cannot think straight! HE really believes that klintoon is America's greatest prez.....eeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkk.....YUK......he is a kla lover too.
27 posted on 09/07/2001 5:32:31 PM PDT by crazykatz
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To: Pericles
I'm in perfect agreement with you.
28 posted on 09/07/2001 6:09:17 PM PDT by constitutiongirl
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To: bob808
Guess what, Bob. No Russian invasion of Afghanistan, no Mujhadeen - Western backed or not.

No Serb cleansing of Muslim areas of Bosnia, no Mujhadeen in Bosnia.

It's not that complicated at all.

Just think what could have been if Milosevic was actually interested in keeping Yugoslavia together instead of creating ethnically pure adjuncts in Croatia and Bosnia.

If the Serbs were interested in keeping Yugoslavia together, they weren't interested in having the Croat or Muslims in it, based on their actions in the RSK and RS.

Those poor guys in the picture weren't the only Serbs who lost their heads in the '90s.

29 posted on 09/07/2001 6:30:16 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
We declared "jihad" on Nazism, Fascism and Islamic fundamentalism in Europe. We defended our own! Not an inch of the land that hadn't belonged to them in the first place was taken over by the Serbs - ever.

Hey, take a look at our enemies and you'll learn a lot about us!


30 posted on 09/07/2001 7:10:17 PM PDT by Vojvodina
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To: Hoplite
What concentration camps, B? Will you ever, ONCE IN YOUR LIFE, provide some evidence? Oh yeah, those "Serbs" in the photo have WHITE STRIPES hanging from their shoulder. Pretty uncommon for the BSA, if you ask me.
31 posted on 09/07/2001 7:18:38 PM PDT by Vojvodina
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To: Vojvodina
Your enemies include women and children who aren't Serbs.

As to the white stripes, you can be so forgetful at times, you know?

Am I the only one around here who remembers previous threads?

32 posted on 09/07/2001 7:42:42 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Vojvodina
Your enemies include women and children who aren't Serbs.

As to the white stripes, you can be so forgetful at times, you know?

Am I the only one around here who remembers previous threads or actually reads what has already been posted before sticking my oar in?

33 posted on 09/07/2001 7:44:32 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hate it when that happens...
Feh.
34 posted on 09/07/2001 7:55:43 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite, Alexandre, vooch, randalcousins
Iran, Hoplite??? Gotcha!! You do know that the Iranians sponsor suicide bombers in Lebanon and Israel??? Of course you do. I so love it when I make you hang yourself with your own words.

PS: Judging by the fighting qualities of the Iranian military (who pioneered the tactic of charging Iraqi machine gun nests with unarmed children) against the much smaller Iraqi army, I think that would have been 10,000 more notches on the Serbian military's belt.

35 posted on 09/07/2001 9:14:41 PM PDT by Pericles
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To: Pericles
Gotcha

Your logic escapes me.

Elucidate.

36 posted on 09/07/2001 9:54:38 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
should I re-type it in Iranian?
37 posted on 09/07/2001 11:18:38 PM PDT by Pericles
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To: Pericles
Sure - Noose is kamand in Farsi, btw.

Not that you'll need help or anything.

38 posted on 09/08/2001 12:02:51 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite,Vooch,Joan,Pericles,Vojvodina,constitutionalgirl,wonders
Both pictures posted here are genuine and true!About the second one from Bjeljina:people on the ground are Muslims and are dead!I have some others,even more gruesome,but can`t post it!Soldiers on the picture are Arkan`s boys!But...There is always,but!What was done in Bjeljina,in the presence of reporters is a crime and stupidity,and has no excuse!It doesn`t metter that Bjeljina Muslims promised Serbs that they will be slaughtered.It doesn`t metter that all Serbs in the police were fired in `90,and many of them from schools,hospital and municypal services!It doesn`t metter that lists were prepared in the SDA(Muslim Party)of the prominent Serbs and their failies to be killed!Bijeljina is a strategic point in Bosnia and when Serbs performed this preemptive strike to secure the town(and that is what it was)killings like this were unnecessary and inhumane!One picture(despite the fact that number of civillian casualities was very low,arr two dozen) was enough to criminilize the whole thing!The fact that this family was taken out of the house from which fire was opened on Serbian forces,makes no difference!Dead woman,kicked in the head,is enough for me!Army doesn`t fight like that!Period!

Hoplite,I admire your "simplistic" view of history!If Soviets didn`t invade Afganistan we wouldn`t have Taliban and Mujahedins in Bosnia!!!!!

The fact that Russians introduced civic society,with schools for everybody,medicare,and our(Christian) sistem into Afganistan is unknown to you!It would be nice if you could,as a great researcher,find a monumental TV series "Cold War"!Maybe,just maybe,than,you would learn some things!

Your comment about "Serbs in April-Mujahedins in June" is so sad and laughable that doesn`t deserve an answer!

Another pearl of wisdom is "Iranian offer of 10 000 soldiers refused"!Well,Hopie,we(US) can`t so blatantly introduce Iran into the hearth of Europe!Volontiers are more convinient!

You see,Hopie,(you don`t mind if I call you Hopie,do you?)some of us have an (dis)advantage of living previously in Yugoslavia!You,I assume,don`t!So,some of us knew the atmosphere,bar talks,TV programs,newspapers,participated actively in some events!And expirienced war!

You didn`t!

You ,Hopie,don`t know a thing about Yugoslavia,former or present!And,not only about Yuigoslavia!

It is a pity that time machine is impossible,because I would like to invite you (and not only you) on a trip in `89!So that you can listen fascist rant of Tudjman`s followers in my birth town of Mostar!"We didn`t kill enough of you,Serbian dogs!This time we`ll finish the job!" "Ante(Pavelich) rise !" "Serbs on willows! Dogs(Serbs) go over Drina!"Or that you can see letter U (for Ustashe) written everywhere!

Or,I would take you on the other side of town to hear Muslims saying"You and Croats were always raya(serfs) and we were always beys(masters)!When we reach 50,0001% of Bosnian population we (Muslims) will fuck your mother!"Nice,isn`t it?

Or,I would give you a Motorola in 91 to listen the conversation between Croat and Serbian policemen in Krajina in which a Croat(former colleague and "friend" of thhe Serb) is describing what he and his palls will do to the Serbs and someones wife and children in particular!I would like you to see the tears of a man who didn`t cry when I amputated his foot but cried at the hatred and betrayal of a man who he considered to be a family friend!And,I would like you to hear a Muslim guy from Bihach,joining in the converstaion and promising that "next year (92) will be a play-off in Bosnia and that both Chedo(Chetnik-Serb) and Ujo(Ustasha-Croat)will have their throaths slitt!Alahu Akbar!"

I would really like to introduce you to your friends, nice Croats and innocent Muslims,not to mention your beloved KLA!It would be a true memorable expirience!

But,for what purpose?People like you don`t learn!


39 posted on 09/08/2001 2:20:42 AM PDT by branicap
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To: branicap
Nice incoherent rant.

Did you make up the part about the Tigers taking fire from the house those people were pulled from or did someone else? Also, there were no lists - this was a common ploy to scare Serb residents into distrusting all of thier Muslim neighbors, playing off of the fears of a repeat of the 1940's.

Not surprised you fell for it. You seem to be a perfect example of the ignorant puke who's head was filled with B.S. in order to get you to hate people who haven't done a damn thing against you or your 'kind' in their entire lives.

At least you seem to have some scruples against killing innocents, at least until someone tells you they took fire from where they were pulled from.

It's a start, I suppose.

40 posted on 09/08/2001 10:27:31 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: branicap
Since you say you are familiar with the case - who are the soldiers - name each one, and each person on the ground. And let us see the photos of their faces. Also, who is the photographer and what is the exact date this photo was taken.

Are their more photos from the scene as well?

41 posted on 09/08/2001 1:05:02 PM PDT by joan
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To: joan
Are their more photos from the scene as well?

check April 1992 issues of TIME magazine

42 posted on 09/08/2001 2:07:56 PM PDT by DTA
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To: Hoplite
>>>>The Lisbon plan, by the way, allotted 44% of Bosnia to the Serbs (in discontiguous lumps), yet in '92 they went and grabbed an extra 26% of the country.<<<<<

Thanks, Hoplite, the private property is the pillar of Western Civilisation if you havent' heard.That's why communists were agaist private property.
Prior to 1991 Serbs OWNED 67% of land in Bosnia Herzegovina. Serbs were mostly peasants who owned land, forrests, Muslims were were townsfolk and owned litle lland and forrest.

Even Lisbon Agreement was infavorable to Serbs, they ACCEPTED IT. Muslims were ones who rejected it.

"Grabbing" of Serb own land occured AFTER Muslims rejected the plan.

You are so helpful in exposing common misconceptions and outright lies that I consider you valuable asset on FR. But Bosnian Muslims are not very happy about your performance, for sure. Just to keep you up to date, Bosnia will be forced to compensate Serbs for stolen land and envoys are already begging for money in Arab states to build compensation fund.

43 posted on 09/08/2001 2:23:20 PM PDT by DTA
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To: Hoplite
#40

Thank you for describing yourself so nicelly!

I am anything but "ignorrant puke",but I will not go into that area(insults)!

And,I didn`t fall for anything,pal!

If you can`t give an answer on the relevant topics in the post or article,being arrogant ind abusive says more about you than people that you talk about!

As far as alleged "hatred" go,I fill no hatred at all!

Only a deep sorrow,when I reminisce about Yugoslavia!

You,in the other hand look like a poster boy"for hatred!

44 posted on 09/08/2001 9:29:53 PM PDT by branicap
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To: DTA
Perhaps if you are so concerned about private property you can explain how it is that the mostly rural Serb populations (they being farmers, mostly, and owning all the farmland so we've been told here on F.R.) felt it was necessary to boot non-Serbs out of the cities?

Wait, wait, don't tell me... those cities were built on old Serb farmlands so there was ample justification for the ethnic cleansing campaigns carried out in the cities in the Republika Srpska.

Whatever. Neither logic nor law are on your side in this matter, but thanks for trying.

45 posted on 09/09/2001 11:12:50 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
Do you mean towns like Mostar, Sarajevo or towns where genocide against Serbs was commited in WWII, like Srebrenica? Or villages along Drina, or villages in Kozara mountains?

Do you know that in Herzegovina, after WWII, the first conscripts of Serbian nationality went to complete military duty in 1958? All born before 1940 were wiped out in WWII by friendly Croatian and Muislim neigbors?

(Picture is reproduction of SS recruitment poster that can be found on neonazi site that glorifies Bosnian WWII Nazis, Croatians and Muslims alike.

In Bosnia-Herzegovina, atrocities happened on all sides in 1990's war. No angels there. All responsible for crimes should pay.The problem with Serbs is that some fell to the level of their Croatian and Muslim neighbors, unpunished and unrepented Nazis from WWII.

Golda Meir's thought can be applied to Bosnian Serbs. ("we can forgive Croats and Muslims for killing our children, but can not forgive them for forcing us to kill theirs.)

Some Serbs became animals the same as their Muslim neigbors and that is moral dimension of Serbian defeat in Bosnia.

I feel that speaking of moral issues with you is like appealing to mercy with loan shark, but at least I try.

Mirracles do happen.

46 posted on 09/09/2001 3:28:38 PM PDT by DTA
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To: DTA
Hoplite talks about Serbs cleansing Muslims from cities in the RS, but what about Serbs from the cities of the Federation who were ethnically cleansed. Wasn't it a Serb from Sarajevo who was killed there in March 1992 at his son's wedding? And see this recent news from inet, it looks like the Muslims are still killing Serbs who try to return to their homes in Sarajevo - even if they are elderly:

Thursday, September 6, 2001

High representative Wolfgang Petritsch has condemned the murder of Rade Rajkovic (73), a Serbian, who has recently returned home to Sarajevo, and who was killed on Tuesday evening when so far unidentified persons set fire on his house. Petritsch has stated also that he believes that the authorities of the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina (FBiH) are doing their best to find perpetraters of this gruesome attack.

47 posted on 09/09/2001 8:33:50 PM PDT by joan
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To: DTA, constitutiongirl

Notice that in the littler picture that hoplite linked in his post #13, the red on the man's hand is much more marked and even seems to extend beyond places where in ends in the bigger picture, and it is also proportionately thicker. Does it look like photo tampering has been going on to you?

DTA: And as for you pointing to Time magazine, why should western press be fair. Was it Newsweek or Time that featured a Bosnian Muslim woman who said she was raped by Serbs but then gave birth to a black child who's father was serving with the French UN forces in Bosnia.

constitutiongirl: Notice we do not see the man in the black jacket's head because the woman's calf is in the way. You can see dirt and shadows on her shin, but I can not make out any definite blood. Also, her white sock - just above the man's hand - is clean looking, and if that was a pool of blood there, why isn't even the corner of her white vest even darkened a bit?

48 posted on 09/09/2001 8:58:58 PM PDT by joan
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To: joan
Joan, I am pointing to TIME magazine from April 1992 for specific reason. It is widely available in libraries all over the world and it can be used as a prooof that Serb "attrocities" occured AFTER Bosnian Muslims unconstitutionally declared independence APRIL 6 1992.

Warren Zimmerman and Izetbegovic are guilty for crime against peace (torpedoing Lisbon agreement) They kickstarted horrible events.

Bosnian Muslims are like someone causing fire on a gaspump by playing with matches and later claiming to be victim of fire hazard.

For Serbs April 6 is the same as December 7 for Americans-day of infamy,day when Hitler attacked Yugoslavia. Bosnian Muslims who fought on Hitler's side, deliberately chose that day to proclaim independence.

49 posted on 09/09/2001 9:54:57 PM PDT by DTA
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To: joan, Pericles, Balkans, braincap
couple of points buddies

1) Hoplite has dominated the agenda....he posts a photo and now it is the sole topic. Instead of focusing on the Beheading of Civilians by the likes of the 7th Mujahedeen Bgd. , PAID, SUPPLIED, & PROMOTED BY CLINTION you allow your selves to be tricked into yammering endlessly about the Tigers.......I thought the subject of this thread was

"Clinton's support of killers such as the 7th Mujahedeen sullied this country, until we come to terms with our support of such killers as the 7th...."

2) Hoppie posted this gem
Lisbon would have resulted in the partitioning of Bosnia into 3 ethnically based areas, and the Croats, Muslims, and Serbs were mixed up enough to make it an unworkable scheme, given what was transpiring next door.

The Lisbon plan, by the way, allotted 44% of Bosnia to the Serbs (in discontiguous lumps), yet in '92 they went and grabbed an extra 26% of the country.

I do believe this is a wide open invitation......Hoppie is telling us that the Lisbon Plan was worse than War.......Hoppie in his statement is saying the Iztbegovic move towards War was fine........and you all let him get away with such stuff...............

50 posted on 09/10/2001 8:11:07 AM PDT by vooch
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