Delenda est Carthago, My Brothers

U.S. Dept. of State, Roman General | Sept. 12, 2001 | General Caelius Fabius Maximus Decimus Meridius

[General Maximus]

...Annual U.S. foreign aid to Egypt: $2 billion
(Egypt votes against the U.S. in the U.N. 68% of the time)

...Making nice with Lebanon: $12-$35 million per year.
(votes against U.S. in the U.N. 79% of the time.)

...Aid to the Palestinian Authority via the Oslo "Agreement:" $500 million over five years.

Wiping the smiles off their faces:

priceless.

[General Maximus]

Virtute et armis.

[gore3000]

Yes, I do not know why we have not shut off all aid to the Palestinians before this even happened. We need to do much more than that though, blood for blood.

[Snuffington]

Oderint dum metuant.

[JMJ333]

bttt

[breakem]

Ironically and sadly, we probably paid for the arms shown in the photo.

[Dan from Michigan]

I think I might print this and Bin Laden's pics out and go to the shooting range and take my 12 gauge with me.

[paul544]

Does anyone have the photo of the explosions that supposedly show a "face" in the smoke? Thanks.

[CatoRenasci]

Ceterum Censeo Afghani et Mesopotamia Esse Delendam

Nothing less than a Carthagenian Peace will suffice. In modern terms that means turning much of Afghanistan and Iraq into glass parking lots so hot with radiation nothing will grow there for 10,000 years. And that's really too gentle a response.

[hinckley buzzard]

Cicero---"Cartago delenda est." Kill the pigs and plow them under -- salt the earth till nothing grows. We could start with some BLU-25's making small sterile pieces out of Kabul, and work our way West till the problem is no more.

My prediction is that by the time we sanitized the diseased pus-ridden infections formerly known as "Teheran" and "Baghdad" the surviving pig-sucking scum will have no more taste for trying to kill civilized people.

[General Maximus]

Nemo malus felix.

[SEA]

Great post, General. I wanted to pass along...no, I am not making this up...the murderous government of Afganistan has a web site where they show Afghan criminals (read: non-Taliban killers) and actually ask for suggestions and comments on any other possible Afghan criminals. Hmmmm? www.afghancriminals.com

[Snuffington]

Ut sementem feceris ita metes.

[General Maximus]

Maybe as a goof I'll email them Arafat's name.

[general_re]

Solitudinem fecerunt, pacem appelunt.

Tacitus

[General Maximus]

That's a fitting one.

[general_re]

It's funny, I was just re-reading Histories last week. It does seem strangely appropriate, doesn't it?

[CatoRenasci]

Our vengence should be so terrible that the name of America will strike terror into the hearts of those who have any connection to the scum who did this for 10,000 years.

May God show them mercy, for America shall not!

[BlueLancer]

Delenda est Islam

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Cui bono???

Or is that too terribly rude a question at a time like this? If you search hard enough I'm sure you can find pictures of these grinning men standing, arm-in-arm with their American sponsors, trainers and financiers. The American-backed mujahadeen have been dancing on the graves of Serbs and Russians lo these many years.

Oh, but THAT was different--eh???

Consider carefully the fact that due to the intellectual and moral somnolence of the American People, Carthage IS us.

[SurferDoc]

The line has been drawn in the sand...decide where you will stand...

[Dick Bachert]

Specifically to the three – perhaps more – heroes of UA 94 who resisted the hijacking SCUM and took the plane into a Pennsylvania hillside and generally to the countless unknown acts of heroism the heroes took to their graves:

``To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his gods,
``And for the tender mother
Who dandled him to rest,
And for the wife who nurses
His baby at her breast,
And for the holy maidens
Who feed the eternal flame,
To save them from false Sextus
That wrought the deed of shame?
``Haul down the bridge, Sir Consul,
With all the speed ye may;
I, with two more to help me,
Will hold the foe in play.
In yon strait path a thousand
May well be stopped by three.
Now who will stand on either hand,
And keep the bridge with me?''

“Horatius” by Thomas Babbington Macaulay

(Search out the entire poem. It will bring tears to your eyes in much the same way the heroic actions of those men in that doomed plane over Pennsylvania brought tears to mine. May God rest their souls and comfort their loved ones.)

[General Maximus]

Is that you, Tokyo Rose? It seems I'm not the only one wondering.

[CatoRenasci]

You are making the same mistake as the people who commited the atrocities against America. We Anglo-Saxons are slow to anger and hate, we wish peace with all those who can behave in a civilized way, but after barbaric atrocities of the sort committed by these Arab scum, we will let slip the Dogs of War and loose the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword. We shall be more terrible in our vengence than little peoples can imagine. This is serious stuff, not the small potatos stuff of the Arab-Israeli conflict. One should not lightly go to war with the only nation on the face of the earth that has used nuclear weapons.

[Austin Willard Wright]

Great purple prose. What are you implying by your last comment? That we should nuke millions of Arab babies.

[MarkWar]

>One should not lightly go to war with the only nation on the face of the earth that has used nuclear weapons.

Sadly, we are a nation of men and women, run by businessmen and businesswomen.

EVERYONE knows in their hearts that the people in charge of responding to these "acts of war" will manage their "responsibilities" and do something "appropriate."

Even the terrorists who did this horrible act understand that. Even if they -- as individuals -- die, I'm sure they'll die happy knowing that they killed almost as many Americans in _one strike_ as died over the entire course of the Vietnam War. And the terrorists -- as individuals -- know that though they may die, the culture that gave birth to them, the culture that supported them, the culture that _cheered_ them, will live on and thrive. Because NO US politician would attack Fundamentalist Islam as a whole -- it wouldn't be "appropriate."

They won't do what we want them to do. And they won't do what is right.

They will do something "appropriate."

God help us. Because we can no longer help ourselves. Mark W.

[CatoRenasci]

Only if it's really necessary. I hope it isn't, but we must do whatever it takes to break the power of radical Islam. Permanently. Like Rome broke Carthage.

[hellinahandcart]

Cicero---"Cartago delenda est."

I will sheepishly admit my total ignorance of Latin as I ask for a literal translation. This sounds like a phrase I will want to use and I want to know exactly what it means (Carthage I already know about).

[General Maximus]

Cato the Elder talking to the Roman Senate: "Delenda est Carthago:" Carthage must be destroyed.

[hellinahandcart]

Thanks. Okay, quick grammar/spelling lesson too please: Is it "Delenda est Carthago" or "Cartago delenda est"?

Your help is appreciated; I'm composing a response to a pansy-assed Wiccan organizing a 9-day "peace action" (read "group spell") on an email list, and I want them wetting their pants instead of correcting my (nonexistent) Latin. :D

[General Maximus]

My sources all say "Delenda est Carthago."

[general_re]

...and to give a sort of follow-up to General Maximus's reply, you'll see it both ways if you look around for back-translations. I don't recall the word-order of the original source, but in Latin, "syntax" doesn't have much meaning - word-order in Latin is almost completely irrelevant.

What I mean is, in English, sentences are typically arranged in a particular order - subject-verb-object. Obviously, there are exceptions, but that's sort of the standard form.

In Latin, however, the speaker/writer has much more freedom, so typically what you'll see is that the writer will emphasize the part that he feels is most important by putting it first. So if the destruction is the important thing, you'd see "Delenda est Carthago." But if the writer feels that it's important to stress that Carthage is the thing to be destroyed, you'd see "Carthago est delenda." And the way you figure out that they both really mean the same thing is by looking at the noun declensions.

My Latin is awfully rusty, but that's pretty close, I think.

And if you need it, feel free to use the quote I used in #15 that the General and I found appropriate. Tacitus is discussing (IIRC - I don't have the book in front of me) how the Romans pacified Britain:

They made a desert, and called it peace.

[hellinahandcart]

I learn something new every day. "Delenda est Carthago" it is, then (destruction being the most important in this context).

Thank you, generals!

[PRND21]

Gotta link to your "Farewell" thread, General?
You are as good as your word.

[Austin Willard Wright]

Thanks for the honest answer. Under what precise conditions, would nuking millions of Arab and Afghan babies be "really necessary" in your view?

[CatoRenasci]

No, No, No.

It was Cato the Censor (also known as Cato the Elder) who ended every speech in the Roman Senate with the following:

Ceterum Censeo Carthago Esse Delendam
Approximately: I am of the opinion that Carthage must be destroyed.

After Scipio Africanus defeated the Carthagenians and conquered the city (killing all males and selling the women and female children into slavery, pulling the buildings down stone by stone and salting the earth -- a Carthagenian Peace) his message to the Roman Senate announcing his victory was the famous:

Carthago Delenda Est
Carthage is destroyed.

[CatoRenasci]

Another honest answer: I don't really know right now. When I was in the Army, there were questions you didn't know enough facts to answer, so you said "DOTS" -- It Depends on the Situation. I think that's what we have to say now, we cannot know in advance precisely what conditions we and our forces will face. What we do know is that we must successfully prosecute this war, and we must give our troops whatever support is necessary. If it's nuclear, then so be it: Just as the Japanese brought destruction upon themselves by attacking the United States, so have these terrorists and those who have supported and tolerated them. Let God show them mercy, for we shall not.

[Zorobabel]

If hyperbole were lethal we could put yours in a bomb and wipe out the entire Islamic world.

[tomkat]

LLAN-DDEUSANT

Disruptor ? since July 25th, 2001

[hellinahandcart]

Okay, so if I wanted to say "Carthage must be destroyed" would it be "Carthago Esse Delendam" or what?

[CatoRenasci]

yes, Carthago Esse Delendam.