Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

M-1 versus AR-15 versus FN-FAL versus 12-Gauge: What to buy in a time of crisis?
Classic Free Republic Threads ^ | 9-14-2001 | Flaming Vanity

Posted on 09/14/2001 5:48:10 PM PDT by SlickWillard

Not to be paranoid, but I have a bad feeling about this war we're entering. This summer I socialized with some Arabs, and, quite frankly, they're not the friendliest people in the world. Plus, they know my home address. Just to be on the safe side, I'd like to purchase a rifle or a shotgun in the next few days, but I have very little experience in these matters. I have long followed the FR threads on these matters (see below), and was hoping to draw on the expertise of the FR community. I am told that if I pass the phone-in test, I should be able to purchase a long gun or rifle in about 15 minutes. Would you please help me, and other Freepers like me, by offering your ideas about weapons for use in times of civil unrest? If possible:

1) Please limit your suggestions to things that the consumer has a reasonable chance to purchase in a store near his or her home. You aren't going to walk into the gun store down the street and find a $5000 fifty-caliber sniper cannon with a $1500 telescope.

2) Please limit your discussion to the practical effectiveness of the weapon, not its theoretical effectiveness. Theoretically, in close quarters, a fully automatic M-16 is superior to a semi-automatic M1, but, in practice, the consumer can only purchase a semi-automatic M-16 (AR-15). Theoretically, at 500 meters, a semi-automatic M1 is superior to a fully automatic M-16, but, in practice, unless you build your house next to the Bonneville salt flats, you'll never encounter a 500 meter line of sight.

3) Remember, the weapon has to be a long gun (rifle) that can be purchased on the spot. No handguns, or anything else that requires a waiting period. Note that this rules out the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP). Also, we're talking complete, fully functioning weapons here. You don't have six weeks to assemble the weapon from the very best parts made by the very best machine shops.

4) The cost of the ammo is very nearly as important as cost of the weapon. If a round costs $5, the newbie can't afford to become familiar with the weapon.

5) The tables below don't mention shotguns, because they haven't been the subject of much discussion here at FR. A pump action shotgun is probably about the best weapon you can have in close quarters (that, or a very large, very aggressive canine). Please give any suggestions you have concerning reliable, reasonably priced pump action shotguns and their shells.

6) Much of the information in the tables that follow is probably wrong. Don't hesitate to point out any mistakes or fallacies that you spot.

7) Finally, and most sadly, the weapon is not for killing squirrels, rabbits or deer. Instead, the weapon is to be kept at your side, in case the bad guys show up at your house and present a "you or them" situation. The purpose of the weapon is to maximize the probability that it's them, not you.


Classic Threads
AR-15 vs AR-10 Dec 16, 1999 154 Posts 264 KB
IAI Garand Rifle Mar 5, 2001 256 Posts 450 KB
Thoughts on Springfield M1A? Mar 28, 2001 53 Posts 98 KB
If you had to choose an "arsenal".... Oct 17, 1999 234 Posts 449 KB
New belt-fed upper for the AR-15 and M-16 Jun 19, 2001 49 Posts 84 KB
Gun Experts, need recommendations Jan 29, 2001 229 Posts 416 KB
(+) THE ART OF THE CACHE (+) Mar 1, 2001 168 Posts 284 KB


   Rifle       Manufacturer       PRO's       CON's   

  • M1   




  • highly accurate to 500m
  • simple mechanics, less prone to jamming
  • large rounds will pass through small trees
  • elegant, classic weapon


  • rifle expensive ($1250-$3500)
  • ammo expensive ($2.00 per round)
  • ? problems with ammo specs ? (metric versus English)
  • ? problems with ammo availability ?
  • large caliber means large recoil
  • large caliber means no target practice near civilization

   Rifle       Manufacturer       PRO's       CON's   

  • M-16/AR-15   




  • moderately priced rifle ($750-$1500)
  • moderately priced ammo ($1.00 per round)
  • widely available
  • small caliber means small recoil


  • lots of parts, prone to jamming
  • small caliber rounds easily diverted by leaves, blades of grass
  • not accurate at great distance

   Rifle       Manufacturer       PRO's       CON's   

  • AR-10   




  • large caliber rounds


  • rifle expensive ($1200 - $2500)
  • ammo expensive, proprietary ($4 per round)
  • large caliber means large recoil
  • ? mechanical stability ?

   Rifle       Manufacturer       PRO's       CON's   

  • FN-FAL   




  • moderately priced rifle ($500-$1250)
  • moderately priced ammo ($1.00 per round)
  • large caliber
  • indestructible


  • ? availability in U.S. stores ?
  • foreign design
  • ? problems with ammo specs ? (metric versus English)
  • large caliber means large recoil
  • inaccurate at distance


For Sale:
http://www.gunbroker.com
(a division of ebay)
http://www.galleryofguns.com
http://www.auctionarms.com
http://www.shotgunnews.com


THANKS!



TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-171 next last

1 posted on 09/14/2001 5:48:10 PM PDT by SlickWillard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
you don't get it
2 posted on 09/14/2001 5:54:53 PM PDT by sasquatch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
Well, right now, I can't afford another rifle.

I do have a 30-06 Remington and a 12 gauge 835 Mossberg, and also can PROBABLY get a hold of an M1 Garand within 20 minutes if need be.

If the SHTF, and I had one choice of weapon, I'd want the Mossberg.

3 posted on 09/14/2001 5:55:27 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sasquatch
you don't get it

Huh?

4 posted on 09/14/2001 5:56:22 PM PDT by SlickWillard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
Don't forget the M1 carbine. Light, reliable, copper jacket will penetrate 15 inches of pine wood and still keep going.
5 posted on 09/14/2001 5:58:04 PM PDT by RLK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
I have never shot the guns you listed. An Ak-47 though is very sweet. No recoil so to speak. Aimable with little practice. I have heard the SKS is good and very similar. I do not know if you can still get 30 round clips, but those are nice. You can go thru one in about 7-8 seconds very easily.

For close in work, I like the Dan Wesson 357 w/6inch barrel. Loud as heck, but once again, you can usually hit what you aim at with little practice.

For canines, I suggest pit bulls. Very sweet dogs and very lovable. Bestest breed that ever was IMHO. But, they are loyal and do not need to be taught to defend their people.

6 posted on 09/14/2001 5:59:18 PM PDT by parsifal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dan from Michigan
If the SHTF, and I had one choice of weapon, I'd want the Mossberg.

They've got like a gazillion models:

http://www.mossberg.com/pcatalog/model835.htm
Any suggestions on what features to look for, or what features to avoid?
7 posted on 09/14/2001 5:59:50 PM PDT by SlickWillard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
Mosberg 500 or remington 870 with extended mag and foldover stock for close in, you can vary the rounds to suit your situation and grandma can hit the broadside of a barn first time out, good general purpose weapon. out to 200 yards run a .223,mini 14 , ar-15 etc. good availabiltiy of ammo. If you need to reach out and touch someone a .308 is a good choice, again ammo availabilty Fn-fal is a good choice with some good machined american made recivers on the market. good luck and good hunting.
8 posted on 09/14/2001 6:01:01 PM PDT by gunsofbrixton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
If you have very little experience and little time to practice, get the 12-gauge. Most fire fights are (according to FBI statistics) at close range and it will be easy for you to hit your target, also you can use some of the smaller loads to prevent your shots from going clear through all the walls in your house and hitting someone you do care about.
9 posted on 09/14/2001 6:01:24 PM PDT by okie_tech
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
I have very little experience in these matters.

1. Find a friend or make a friend who is an NRA member with some years experience in handling firearms.

2. Buy the shotgun. Pump would suit a novice well, but have your friend show you and help you practice with DUMMY SHELLS NOT LIVE ONES until you can load and unload the thing safely.

If the pump is too complex buy a double barrel. Easy to operate and you get two shots instead of one.

3. Go to the range. Learn to hit targets.

I recommend the shotgun because it has good stopping power, is easier to aim, and the situation you describe is mostly very short range.

10 posted on 09/14/2001 6:02:48 PM PDT by LibKill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
Get a 12GA pump. Devestating at any range likely in a home defense situation. Load it with #4 buckshot or large birdshot so it won't go through the your wall and into the neighbors house if you miss. And it'll cost about a half to a quarter of what an FAL, M1, AR etc will. So you can afford to buy a revolver for the nightstand too.
11 posted on 09/14/2001 6:02:53 PM PDT by Hugin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
12-gauge for home defense, auto or pump. Any of the above rifles would be just dandy, whichever feels right to you and most importantly, whichever you will have plenty of ammo for. Consider a removable red-dot sight such as an Aimpoint for night use, you can't see the sights on any of them after dark.

I noticed you didn't include any Kalashnikovs on your list. Most reliable of the lot, but not quite as precise as the fine rifles you listed. Notice that all the sand-terrorists carry Kalashnikovs. This is because they continue to work, even when full of sand and neglected for decades. Something to think about.

12 posted on 09/14/2001 6:03:53 PM PDT by Sender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
Okay, first you need a trained personal protection/guard dog. My preference is Rottweiler: they are quiet, hardly ever bark so they are not disturbing your daily life and very loyal but you have to be "firm" not "mean" but firm with a Rott and you must be involved daily in the continuing "working" read "training" of a Rott. There can only be one Alpha in a pack. Next a pistol grip pump action 12 gauge as opposed to the "assault rifles" that rounds will go through walls and possibly hit someone in the other room. You better get some professional training and be prepared to kill someone although if you have a Rott there is a 99% chance no one will ever enter your home so you will probably never have to use it. Semper Fi, Mike
13 posted on 09/14/2001 6:04:37 PM PDT by HEFFERNAN2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
Well, I have a 835 Mossberg 12 gauge. Reliable. Ammo ranges in price, but for $30, I can get a case of small birdshot ammo.

I can also get 3 1/2 inch shells of .00 buckshot with it as well.

Once I get a slug barrell, that gun can do almost anything outside of rapid fire and sniping.

14 posted on 09/14/2001 6:05:52 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
I forgot to mention, any of the above rifles would shoot completely through several layers of sheetrock and vinyl siding, possibly through your neighbor's house. That's also a good reason for the 12-gauge at home.
15 posted on 09/14/2001 6:05:54 PM PDT by Sender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: SlickWillard
bump for later ....
17 posted on 09/14/2001 6:07:15 PM PDT by Centurion2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hugin
Get a 12ga. Semiautomatic.

It can be fired with one arm if you take a hit.

18 posted on 09/14/2001 6:07:35 PM PDT by Abcdefg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Sick-Willard
re:
"..they're not the friendliest people in the world.
Plus, they know my home address. Just to be on the safe
side, I'd like to purchase a rifle or a shotgun in the
next few days, but I have very little experience in
these matters..."

Rule #1:
Prejudiced paranoia is the wrong reason to purchase
your first firearm, or in making the decision
to own one.

(The decision to take a human life should not come
as easy as you seem indicate)

Two:
A nice light, 20ga shotgun will offer you all
the home protection you'll need. The noise will
scare the bejesus out of anyone and the kick won't
bowl you over. At close range, it can near cut a human
body in half. Keep that in mind.

Oh... and enroll in your local gun club. They will
be happy to assist you.
19 posted on 09/14/2001 6:08:11 PM PDT by Deep_6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Deep_6
20 Gauge.

Well it depends I guess. I would go 12 gauge but if Slick is built small and has little firearms experience maybe a 20 is the ticket. Certainly the recoil and noise are less and that is good for a first time shooter.

20 posted on 09/14/2001 6:12:27 PM PDT by LibKill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Deep_6
(The decision to take a human life should not come as easy as you seem indicate)

I assure you, I am not looking for trouble. I just want to be ready if it comes up my driveway looking for me.

PS: This thing could get really ugly before it's all said and done (as though it hasn't been mighty ugly so far...)

21 posted on 09/14/2001 6:14:48 PM PDT by SlickWillard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
I am no expert, but I'd go with a pump shotgun for the following reasons:

1)Ammo is cheap and readily available anywhere

2)You don't have be an expert marksman to hit what you point it at (it's called a "scattergun" for a reason)

3)If you choose to, you can go for a disabling shot and have a reasonable chance of actually hitting a leg, arm, etc.

4)Also If you choose to, it can be quite lethal (though maybe a little messy)

5)If you have neighbors like I do, you worry about penetration. Steel shot probably won't penetrate your wall AND your neighbor's

6)Deterrance: The sound of a shell being jacked into a pump shotgun's chamber has to be the scariest and most distinctive sound in the universe.
Enough to put most burglars to flight without firing a shot.

22 posted on 09/14/2001 6:15:19 PM PDT by ZOOKER
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LibKill
I have a small 18" gun gripped 20ga "snake gun".

I'd never part with it...very handy.
23 posted on 09/14/2001 6:16:33 PM PDT by Deep_6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
I agree with Dan of Michigan. A good 12 gauge pump is inexpensive, easy to operate and reliable. You do not have to be a great shot to be effective. Most important there is nothing during the still of night like the sound of a pump shotgun to make an intruder think he might want to be elsewhere.
24 posted on 09/14/2001 6:17:26 PM PDT by JonH
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
For home defense, nothing can beat a shotgun. I'd recommend a 12 ga. pump of any major brand. I've owned 3 Mossberg 500's and fired hundreds of rounds and never had a problem. My latest is a Persuader that holds 8 rounds. I'd also recommend 00 buckshot, which will easily drop a man at 50 yards.

If your looking for an assault rifle and money is a concern I'd recommend an AK-47 type like a MAK-90. They can be had for as little as $250 and the ammo (7.62x39) is about $80 for 1000 rds. They are very reliable and fun to shoot. I just got a Dragunov stock for mine and boy is it evil looking. A AR-15 type rifle starts out at about $600.

My own favorite rifle is my M-1 Garand. Loading the clips is a little tedious and if your not careful inserting the clip you can lose a thumb. But they are very accurate and fun to shoot. The first time I ever shot mine I put 6 of 8 rounds in a 12"x12" at 100 yards shooting freehand. I picked it up at a gun show for $700 but you can get them for as little as $400 if you don't have to have USGI matching parts.

25 posted on 09/14/2001 6:18:17 PM PDT by Jaxter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard

Don't forget your handgun!!!

Go get yourself a CHL (Concealed Weapons Licence) licence now!

I have a sweet titanium snubnoze 38, with "ticket to Allah" written all over it and Mohamed will not no where or if I have one.

If you live in Kalifornia or some other totalitarian state, revolt against the state for your rights back, or move now! It could be possible that your state allows you to go about non-concealed. Take whatever your state allows, and now is the time to undue the harm against the 2nd Amendment that was inflicted on it that past 50 odd years.

26 posted on 09/14/2001 6:20:35 PM PDT by lormand
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
And remember a few things. Have a lawyer and have his number handy. Not a joke.

Understand that discharging a firearm in your house is LOUD. Be prepared for it. Your ears will ring for 20 minutes. Or more.

Understand that people shot will also create a scene. They will scream, yell, cry, plead, bleed all over the carpet, and leave particles splattered on your living room wall. Prepare yourself for it now.

Not trying to deter you from protecting yourself, just letting you know that it will be loud and messy and in many states you will be subjected to a grand jury investigation, etc.

In our case the police took over 14 hours to quiz, measure, quiz some more, take pictures, smoke, talk, etc. Then there were the months wondering whether I'd be charged.

Just letting you know. I like the Remington 870.

27 posted on 09/14/2001 6:20:57 PM PDT by thatsnotnice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
You can get a nice Yugoslavian SKS for about $350 now and my friend the chief of police just got a very nice Cetme G-3 for about $400.

I'm more in the Ishy .308 line for around $150 a ten round mag and bayonnet lug too,plus you get to use all that good british slang.

Sir,What is a napature? Sir,a napature is a nole you look though,Sir.Kersnickety snack and much pounding of the feet.

Or a good Rem 870 will do all you need,buy one send it to wilson combat and get back a real working piece for only $200 more dollars.

28 posted on 09/14/2001 6:22:30 PM PDT by tet68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Deep_6
I have a small 18" gun gripped 20ga "snake gun".

I'd never part with it...very handy.

I like that. I think I will get one myself someday.

Pump or other?

29 posted on 09/14/2001 6:25:37 PM PDT by LibKill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
re:
"..I assure you, I am not looking for trouble. I just
want to be ready if it comes up my driveway looking for
me..."

The person[s] would have to come up the drive; break into
your home and give you reason while inside your home,
to feel your life is endangered.

And unless they're armed, the jury would likely return
a 2nd degree manslaughter.

I assume you're also ready for a twenty-year stint
with "Big Ralph" as your surrogate spouse?

The "it" by the way, is very human; has a name; a
mom, pop and family; and probably works harder than
either of us.

If "it" comes looking for you at your home, "it"
probably wants to ask for your friendship in these
very trying times.


Dump the prejudice, willya'? This country has got
to pull together; all of us, all faiths, religions
and heritages.



Thanks
30 posted on 09/14/2001 6:27:52 PM PDT by Deep_6 ("Where there is no vision, the people perish")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
Hell, buy one of each!

Seriously, a basic Mossberg pump or Remington 870 is ideal for in-house defense work. Most 870's now come with screw-in chokes - use full culinder for in the house (shot scatters widely and in a hurry). Use #4 shot or bigger (lower the shot #, bigger the shot- BUT, bigger the shot, less pellets in a round).

One question - where the hell have you been pricing ammo? Really good shotgun shells are about 6-8 dollars per 25 round box, and you can often find them on sale for $4-5.
7.62mm and .223 surplus ammo can be gotten for about 20 cents per round. 30-06 for the Garand is slightly higher.

$2.00 per round? That's about the going rate for .50 caliber BMG. ,

31 posted on 09/14/2001 6:31:55 PM PDT by Morgan's Raider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Deep_6
Deep_6-- question: I have a remington 12Ga. semi-auto gas operated. 1 in the chamber, and five in the tube would seem to do the trick. Are you recommending AGAINST a semi-auto all together, or just against the expense of buying a semi-auto versus a pump?

Thanks

32 posted on 09/14/2001 6:33:24 PM PDT by Blueflag
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
One good thing about the AR-15: you can get tons of 30 round pre-ban USGI mags cheap. Around 15 bucks for VG to Excellent used USGI mags if you order on-line. There's also a lot of surplus ammo out there as the table says, and it's relatively inexpensive to plink with.

The AR-15 of today is not the M-16 of the 70's. They are finely manufactured pieces of machinery that have really come into their own in terms of reliability and accuracy, and are popular both for varmint hunters and precision shooters (even at pretty long ranges -- most of us won't ever need to hit anything beyond 500 yards really, in which case I'd probably want a good bolt action in .300 Win Mag or somethign).

As far as usefullness when the SHTF, the Carbine versions especially are excellent in an "urban combat" environment as they combine compactness, rate of fire, and low recoil in a package that is not "overpowered" for close quarters battle.

Obviously, they are not infinitely flexible. That's why everyone needs several guns of different types! :-)

33 posted on 09/14/2001 6:33:35 PM PDT by RogueIsland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
The best weapon is the one which you are trained to use well

You don't have firearms experience? Well, then what the @#$%& are you doing considering stuff that will put holes thru your neighbor's kids bedroom if you screw up?

First, find someone who will be a good teacher. Find out what HE teaches best. Then get that, buy LOTS of ammo for it, and spend a few days practicing with it.

For the novice, a semi-auto shotgun in 20-gauge may be best. The recoil is managable, and novices tend to "short-stroke" pump shotguns under stress (this makes them jam -- you don't want that when you're fighting for your life)

34 posted on 09/14/2001 6:33:52 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SauronOfMordor
SOM-- I'll ask you as well-- I have a remington 12Ga. semi-auto gas operated. 1 in the chamber, and five in the tube would seem to do the trick. Others have pushed the pump. You recommend the semi-auto cuz the gun does the work for you. Why would these guys be so hot on the pump?

BTW, the 12 Ga has quite the kick. But at 6'4" and 235, it's a draw ...

35 posted on 09/14/2001 6:38:04 PM PDT by Blueflag
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: All
On a shotgun, what are the best type of sights for home defense? Red dot? Ghost Ring? Or are you more likely to end up just instictively pointing it at what you want to shoot, without using the sights?
36 posted on 09/14/2001 6:41:08 PM PDT by xm177e2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hugin
You nailed it ... a 12 pump (preferably a Winchester 1300!) and have #2, #4 and a few sabo rounds, for shooting through the damn wall when you need to or through a car if necessary. The revolver is best suggestion, though I luvs my ol' 1911A with Hydra Shoks.
37 posted on 09/14/2001 6:41:46 PM PDT by MHGinTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
Three comments:

For home defense I side with those who favor a 12 gauge pump. Almost any brand I have ever been around (Remmington, Winchester, Ithica (sp), Mossberg and undoubted others) has worked flawlessly.

Whoever was quoting ammo prices (e.g. 30'06 at $40 per box??) in the tables above was either looking to sell something at a huge markup or was buying something gold plated.

If you are looking for a dependable handgun at a very moderate price, there have been a lot of police surplus Model 10 S&W 38s around at very good prices from time to time. As a lot of police officers who shot themselves with 70s era autoloaders proved, a modern double action revolver is probably a lot safer for the shooter who may not always be focussed on safety.

38 posted on 09/14/2001 6:42:59 PM PDT by R W Reactionairy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: thatsnotnice
So did the guy die? I have a sword and a 9mm by my bed. I figured the sword is going to make a huge, gruesome mess. I'll probably opt for my 9mm first.
39 posted on 09/14/2001 6:45:24 PM PDT by Brett66
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Deep_6
The "it" by the way, is very human; has a name; a mom, pop and family; and probably works harder than either of us.

Earth to Deep_6: The "it" just flew two jet airplanes into the World Trade Center, which, thanks to the "it," no longer exists. Neither do about 5000 former tenants.

Consider the following scenario: Massive, possibly nuclear, counter-retaliation by the United States on Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, et al. Massive, possibly unconventional, counter-counter-retaliation by many non-citizen Arabs in the United States (think visa and green card-carrying engineers, post docs, grad students, undergrads, wives, domestic workers, etc.). Like I said, I spent some time with non-citizen Arabs this summer, and they aren't real fond of us.

40 posted on 09/14/2001 6:46:01 PM PDT by SlickWillard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: R W Reactionairy
Mossberg 500 Series

Mossberg 835 Series

Remington 870 Series

Wilson Combat Scatterguns


41 posted on 09/14/2001 6:48:42 PM PDT by SlickWillard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
7) Finally, and most sadly, the weapon is not for killing squirrels, rabbits or deer. Instead, the weapon is to be kept at your side, in case the bad guys show up at your house and present a "you or them" situation. The purpose of the weapon is to maximize the probability that it's them, not you.

For close-in work, nothing, and I mean nothing compares with a scattergun. Mossberg, with a short barrel, would be the best thing. Rifles are good at long range, but they're simply too clumsy for truly close encounters.

Nothing else comes close.

FReegards,

42 posted on 09/14/2001 6:50:15 PM PDT by Capitalist Eric
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag
re:
"I have a remington 12Ga. semi-auto gas operated..
...Are you recommending AGAINST a semi-auto all
together.."

If faced with actually having to depend on
any firearm to save my life, I would prefer
NOT to depend on an automatic loading device
to set the round.

And as someone else mentioned, the mere
"chunk-chunk" of the pump action scares
even those that have never heard a pump
shotgun before. It's a very serious sound.

My wee 20ga is a single-shot, as most
"snake guns" are. Why would I need a second
round?

The author of this thread isn't serious
anyway. It's just another thread to raise
hell..

Thanks
43 posted on 09/14/2001 6:50:34 PM PDT by Deep_6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Deep_6
The author of this thread isn't serious anyway.

Actually, the author of this thread is very serious. He intends to make a purchase tomorrow and to begin target practice in the woods behind his house tomorrow afternoon.

44 posted on 09/14/2001 6:57:16 PM PDT by SlickWillard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
re:
"..Earth to Deep_6: The "it" just flew two jet
airplanes into the World Trade Center.."

The Oklahoma building fell thanks to a white
Christian born Caucasian.

A white, Christian born Caucasian killed and ate
numerous men.

A white, Christian born Caucasian sliced the necks
of many woman.. While another sat atop a hospital
building sniping at innocents.. And another formed
a following that brutally murdered others to his
request...

What do you do, when "it" comes up your drive?
Or is it just foreign speaking "it's" that worry
you?

It's topics like this, that make me wonder what's
happened to this fine Nation.....

I find it saddening.


Thanks.
45 posted on 09/14/2001 7:06:45 PM PDT by Deep_6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
Er... proprietary ammo for the AR-10?

$4 per round?

46 posted on 09/14/2001 7:07:07 PM PDT by Skibane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bang_list
Added to bang_list. (Click HERE to show most gun-related articles recently posted on FreeRepublic.com.)
47 posted on 09/14/2001 7:09:10 PM PDT by Skibane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
So you spent a significant amount of time with these people, right?

Now that someone has committed an act of terror, these same people you thought enough of to spend time with, have become evil?

You're now afraid these people who thought enough of you to spend their time with you are coming to your home to hunt you down?

You're a perfect example of why some people want to mandate waiting periods for firearm purchases.

Sounds like you need a friend, someone who will listen to you, far more than you need a gun, and I'd wager that one of your Arab 'friends' (one of the people you're talking about killing) would be happy to oblige you.

48 posted on 09/14/2001 7:11:29 PM PDT by jra
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: jra
re:
"..You're a perfect example of why some people want to
mandate waiting periods for firearm purchases..."

It's amazing how many read the FR posts and repost data
from it to the usenet and other media.

It's unfortunate, but you've hit the nail on the head.
It's dialog like "SickWIllie's", that will be used in
the reasons to promote longer waiting periods and checks.

I often wonder if the democraps and libbies don't
plant these bozo topics, just to generate the
fodder they need.


Thanks.
49 posted on 09/14/2001 7:24:37 PM PDT by Deep_6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: SlickWillard
If you're prepping for home defense, that's one thing; but, if you're prepping for invasion.. Buy yourself a good 12 ga. shotgun and a decent side arm - you pick it. Doesn't have to be expensive - just has to work a hand full of times in actual use before you lift weapons and ammo from the other side for replenishment. Most groups outside the US are Not using Nato arms, they are using Russian and Chinese made SKS and AK47 for standard armament and a varienty of side arms like the Tokarov (sp).

For side arms I like the expensive (roughly $375-$500) - Walther PPK/PPKS. It's small, inexpensive to fire, easily concealed, accurate, median on recoil and comfortable to fire. You don't have to go too big - you want stopping power, not something that will go through someone and keep on Going. You want something that will put them down, not a rocket launcher that is unweildy and goes right through. A good Mossy 12 ga. and Walther would put you in under $1000 and prepare you for anything close range, though the Walther may surprise most on it's range capabilities. There are many reasons it has been a weapon of Choice in Security agencies. I've heard stories of jam rates; but, I've yet to see one actually Jam.

50 posted on 09/14/2001 7:25:35 PM PDT by Havoc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-171 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson