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Is this the start of the new world order?
Naspino

Posted on 09/14/2001 9:47:12 PM PDT by Naspino

There have been a lot of religious and occult inferences to what is going on -- and for the most part "tin foil hat" responses. However, there could be an undertone to what will soon happen that we -- as Free Republic members -- should keep an eye out for.

If a New World Order could be built, literally a revived Roman Empire, it could not be built during our lifetimes through diplomacy without a massive life-changing, earth-shaking event that demanded its creation. What we could possibly be seeing is the formation of this New World Order.

Just think about these things:

1. For the first time -- in my lifetime and most likely in the last 60 years the partisan rankor in this country has been nearly abolished.

2. To question the congress or the President immediately implies that one is a traitor (rightfully so) because of the need to keep the response to this action moving forward.

3. We are for the first time (both sides) questioning our need to surrender some our freedoms. We are for the first time considering placing troops within our country, in our airports, on our airplanes.

4. We are considering whether to completely close our borders (I don't know how long its been since we've done this).

5. Article 5 has been invoked in NATO.

6. We are forming a coalition of nations outside of NATO, most likely one larger and more resolved than the one Bush Sr. created. The tone to this coalition may very well be "if you are not for freedom -- then you must be against freedom".

7. We are considering weapons of mass destruction (at least many Americans -- maybe not the President).

8. Congressmen are seriously questioning the need for identification technology -- for which we have been fighting against for years (FaceIt, National Ids, bio-implants). Gephardt remarked that most Americans were against this technology, but in light of resent events we may have no choice.

9. The US has stood in the way of many nations attempts to eradicate their Islamic problems (China and Russia most notably) because of "human-rights abuses". Any coalition involving these nations will have to address their needs to eradicate these people -- without those objections.

All of this can very quickly lead to the formation of a larger "entity" that does not necessarily fight for "freedom" but fights against those that are against it -- to begin with Islamic Fundamentalism. While out militaries fight this war we will no doubt see a blank check given to intelligence agencies due to the "shadowy" nature of our enemy. Using the same logic we will likely see the erosion of some of our freedoms through increased security measures to safeguard those freedoms, perhaps initial introduced as temporary measures.

The most notable things we will see will be the increased security at our borders and on our travel -- the level of security will likely exceed that that El Al and Israel have in place. We might see our borders guarded by the military instead of internal law-enforcement -- not only ending illegal immigration but the drug-trade as well. We might see internal check-points placed on our highways and roads through-out the country. We might see the Washington DC airport never re-open to the public -- all public transport to and from DC will have to occur through heavily guarded roads and railways.

Finally, and perhaps most horrifyingly we might see the liberals among us -- after some time -- not only single out Islam as an enemy of our new world, but radical Christianity as well. Already we remark about Falwell and Robertson for their beliefs that we are the cause of this -- a point that many of us agreed with before the bombing. How many has it been said that America's naivety, our acceptance of the evils within our borders like the defense of mass murders, and specifically that of abortion would eventually cause God to lift his protection from this nation?

Those that believe in the Bible and in Revelations have always known that one day the devil would be thrown to the earth, that he would go after the Jewish people (protected by two Eagle's wings -- Revelations) but not be able to harm them. In frustration he would turn on her children...which has long been thought of as Christians.

Further -- those that believe in Revelations know that the "beast" will have victory over the "saints" and that those that accept the mark of the "beast" (666) will never be allowed into Heaven. All of this would lead to the "bowl judgements" which then lead to the eradication of billions of people from the earth and end in the return of Christ.

We've all seen the prophecies posted here hundreds of times and my point for bringing this up is that I've always held the belief that the "mark" of the beast are bio-implants that identify that person as belonging to the nation -- not actually a 666 tattooed on your forehead. It says the mark allows those that receive the ability to buy and sell. I did my college speech on bio-implants and the majority on their WONDERFUL benefits and the last 5 minutes on a "what-if" scenario. My scenario was this:

Imagine Hitler in the 1930's just coming to power. However -- having all of the technology we have today and all of his citizens implanted with identification (check Ditigal Angel -- the technology is so small it can be injected via a needle). Now, Hitler decides its time to pass the laws restricting Jewish rights within Germany. He opens Windows 2000 Professional, opens SQL Server, and runs:

UPDATE CITIZENS SET ACTIVE=0 WHERE BLOOD="Jew" -- Run

In an instant...all Jews across the country lose the power to buy, to sell, to travel on railways, and on planes. Checkpoints can be setup -- scan each person passing through and remove those that are inactive. Essentially the round-up of Jews is no longer based on appearance or the subjectivity. Its based on the result of a scan done on the person's hand or forehead.

Now -- the advantages of the chips are extremely long. It allows a true paperless society, reduced waits at airports, at ticket counters, at checkout lines, at banks. Monetary crime is nearly eliminated with the ability for the MASSIVE CIA and FBI resources to track all transactions and see the history of transactions for as long as the person was implanted. The ability to locate and apprehend criminals, and located the kidnapping and missing.

No one in that room believed we would EVER consider such technology -- however many years ago we did not like the idea of ATMS because there were not personal enough -- now we don't like cashiers because they're inconvinient. This event -- could be the catalyst for the implementation of the bio-implant technology. Certainly I don't believe bio-implants will show up tomorrow or the next year or the next. This is a gradual process of easy people into acceptance -- and each event like this that occurs will expose the flaws of its predecesors (like SmartCards or National Identity Cards) and increase the acceptance for something better -- however frightening.

I close with this -- whether you agree with my Biblical beliefs, we here at the Free Republic have always fought against this kind of invasion of privacy. We need to keep a very close eye on what freedoms we are willing to give up -- no matter the cause.


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1 posted on 09/14/2001 9:47:12 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: Naspino
The only New World Order that looks to be coming out of these events is one that has as a cornerstone United States sovereignty.
2 posted on 09/14/2001 9:51:07 PM PDT by My2Cents
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To: Naspino
Yes... it seems possible. The Congress is certainly acting to make one think it is so...

But prepare to be flamed. And that's the worst part.... finally something has happened so large, that even people I would consider patriots can no longer think clearly.

Those that would have stood against the government, are now the first that would turn you in.

If this intensity continues, we're going to be seriously screwed within the year...

3 posted on 09/14/2001 9:55:25 PM PDT by DAnconia55
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To: My2Cents
The litmus test can happen in six months. We should take account of the measures and the freedoms that are questioned from now until then -- these will be the ones on the chopping block from then on.
4 posted on 09/14/2001 9:56:04 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: DAnconia55
Those that would have stood against the government, are now the first that would turn you in.

Well I'm one of them. :-) I've been pretty vocal about my belief that we need all of the things I just outlined. HOW ELSE CAN you stop terrorists within our borders. I don't think any prophecy person ever considered that terrorism would be the catalyst. It has always been the invasion of Israel.

It just makes sense now. How can you defend against a shadowy enemy -- one that could have 100's or thousands of soldiers living and working in our own border without a MUCH larger military presence, security measure, and intelligence gathering arm?

Like they've been saying -- the limits have been withdrawn..

5 posted on 09/14/2001 9:58:53 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: DAnconia55
"Those that would have stood against government, are now the first that would turn you in."

I see you haven't lost your touch...:)

By some of the replies that I have seen on other posts of questioning the loss of freedoms or liberties, or even questioning the President, one is considered a heretic or traitor. I guess it's the time of..damn the torpedos..full steam ahead.

6 posted on 09/14/2001 10:10:07 PM PDT by mqg25
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To: DAnconia55
If a New World Order could be built, literally a revived Roman Empire,

"Deos fortioribus adesse." (The gods are on the side of the stronger.) Tacitus c.56 - c.177 AD

A good,solid Roman!

7 posted on 09/14/2001 10:11:43 PM PDT by mdittmar
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To: mqg25
By some of the replies that I have seen on other posts of questioning the loss of freedoms or liberties, or even questioning the President, one is considered a heretic or traitor. I guess it's the time of..damn the torpedos..full steam ahead.

Well there is some truth to the criticisms of people that question the President. You should be able to question the loss of freedom all day long. To question the President -- before we even know what he's doing -- is to just be partisan and we've seen many partisans. We need to show a united front behind the President, the 100 senators, and the house members (-1) that support the President.

However, we should keep a wary eye towards the "agendas" that will come from this -- they don't necessarily have to come from the President. I see a whole new "age" of partisan politics over freedom vs security.

8 posted on 09/14/2001 10:13:44 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: Naspino
I don't quite agree with your interpretations' of Revelations, but with that said I agree with you that.."times are a changing."
9 posted on 09/14/2001 10:14:48 PM PDT by mqg25
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To: mdittmar
A good,solid Roman!

What are you trying to say? That that would be cool? Romans lost to Barbarians. No -- our empire would be unstoppable compared to the Romans....

10 posted on 09/14/2001 10:14:57 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: Naspino
Those that would have stood against the government, are now the first that would turn you in.

Well I'm one of them. :-)

You'd have to decode that for me.

You're one who thinks a battle of Armeggedon is coming?

The 'I'm one of them' part is throwing me also...
.

Look if Bush get us through this, without allowing a permanent loss in freedom - I'll even vote for him next time... because he will have proven he could be trusted with power. And I'd add to that, I think he's handling himself very well.. It's Congress that is currently scaring the piss out of me..
But don't hold your breath. Even FR has become a bastion of conformity. Once - this place was about liberty, protections of Constitutional rights, a return the values of our Founders. Now it's more and more... monthly... becoming an arm of the GOP...

I'm totally for pounding these terrorist muslim idiots into the sand. But there's not ANY excuse for attacking the Constitution.

I'm looking at the magic eight ball... and asking the question...

"Your future is fascism." is the reply.

Well. I hear Canada is nice....

11 posted on 09/14/2001 10:15:46 PM PDT by DAnconia55
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To: mqg25
I don't quite agree with your interpretations' of Revelations,

I'd be interested in hearing yours at some time.

12 posted on 09/14/2001 10:15:49 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: DAnconia55
You'd have to decode that for me. You're one who thinks a battle of Armeggedon is coming? The 'I'm one of them' part is throwing me also...

Both -- sort of -- I think the majority of battles and trials are over before "Armeggedon" but I'm also one that sees the need for the loss of freedom to protect security. We have to realize the threat we face this day -- if they had bio, chem, or nuclear weapons they would use it -- only a VERY powerful and aggressive intelligence gathering community and internal security is going to stop that.

And I'd add to that, I think he's handling himself very well.. It's Congress that is currently scaring the piss out of me..

Agreed. Bush is doing a very good job for the moment. I was worried in that first speech. Its Powell's statements about arrest and trial that are worrying me right now -- but I'll let that pass as disinformation for the moment.

Now it's more and more... monthly... becoming an arm of the GOP...

Well, I see them as the same thing.. GOP = return to founding fathers -- gradually. We can't afford to lose elections to Socialists that will drag us farther into chaos.

"Your future is fascism." is the reply.

Its a definite quandry. There is a reason Bush is taking so long to ponder this. Our enemy can't be beaten on the battlefield alone. He has to be uprooted from his positions within our own country and excluded from re-entering it. How can you tell someone's religion by looking at them? We are talking about a religion -- Islamic Fundamentalism...maybe all Islamics...depeding on their reaction to our reaction.

13 posted on 09/14/2001 10:22:20 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: Naspino
Welcome to the real world my friend..better late than never....we the "tin foil" crowd have been saying this for decades... we are not anti-government rather pro constitutional.....we were "patriots" when patriot meant some kind of kook....I have no problem with the rise of new patriot rantings on FR...just hope they now start to read and learn starting with George Washingtons farewell addres....

As for you other fears...from a early post today

I actually heard Dickhead Gephardt say on national TV last night that it might be time for American citizens to have to carry ID cards with them at all times. These cards would be so called "smart cards" containing all of your personal information. I thought that living in America and being an American citizen meant that we didn't have to worry about "showing our papers" to go out and about. I'm scared - really scared - not of the terrorists, but of our representatives in Washington! The plain fact that they haven't declared WAR on terrorists and the countries that harbor them yet tells me that they are stalling until the public outcry dies down so that they won't have to do anything - as usual.�

14 posted on 09/14/2001 10:24:53 PM PDT by robnoel
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To: Naspino
Gun and ammunition sales have been going through the roof over the last few days, and people now realize that nobody can protect them better than they can protect themselves.

Sounds like someone's NWO plan backfired.

15 posted on 09/14/2001 10:25:42 PM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Naspino
My two cents list:

Clintons Land Grab = Prison Camps aka Habitat for the environment.
If the Blue Helments show up as aide assitance = We Are all in a Ssheeeeze load of trouble.
Praise to Jesus Christ and may we trust in him even in the muck and mire.
God Bless Amerika
16 posted on 09/14/2001 10:27:25 PM PDT by oceanperch
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To: All
By the way I should say that I totally disagree with Falwell that God gave America what it deserves. If God did anything, he removed His protection from our nation. I just read God disciplines the one He loves. We are the most Christian nation regardless of what evils we allow in this country. I think we're like the Church that does great deeds but tolerates the Nicolatians...

We have to just hold on and see what happens.

17 posted on 09/14/2001 10:28:09 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: Alberta's Child
Sounds like someone's NWO plan backfired.

Don't be too sure. You aren't going to use those weapons on our fellow policemen and soldiers. To do so would be traitorous.

The NWO is a good thing -- your security will be assured by the full faith of our armed services.

18 posted on 09/14/2001 10:31:15 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: oceanperch
If the Blue Helments show up as aide assitance = We Are all in a Ssheeeeze load of trouble.

You know -- I think the UN may have had a purpose once for being the NWO -- but its been overrun by anti-globalists. Which is odd. I think this will be a new creation that includes OUR friends and excludes OUR enemies.

19 posted on 09/14/2001 10:32:49 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: Naspino
"We need to show a united front behind the President..."

I agree, but let me ask you if..Slick Willy was still President do you think he would have the same support among freepers? Do you think there would be a united front of support, or do you think a lot of second guessing, finger pointing and even criticism? Be honest.

20 posted on 09/14/2001 10:33:37 PM PDT by mqg25
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To: Naspino
We can hope.
At the Battle of Zama the Roman cavalry quickly routed the Carthaginian cavalry and then attacked the rear of their infantry.
The result was the slaughter of Hannibal's army.
Although Hannibal escaped, 20,000 Carthaginians died and 15,000 became prisoners.
The Romans suffered minimal losses numbering around 1,500.
With the defeat of Hannibal's army, Carthage was forced to sue for peace and to accept Scipio's terms.
Carthage handed over all warships and elephants, agreed not to make war without permission of Rome, and agreed to pay Rome 10,000 talents over the next 50 years.
Carthage was never again a major threat to Rome.

The islamic nations must go the way of Troy, Carthage, and Azteca.
We will be victorious.

21 posted on 09/14/2001 10:33:46 PM PDT by MrBambaLaMamba (M.I.W.S. cavaliers@dare_to_speak.com)
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To: Naspino
Bush picks up father's quest for New World Order

By Gay Alcorn, Herald Correspondent In Washington

On Monday, George Bush was looking forward to a hellish few months. There was a divided Congress squabbling over a shrinking budget surplus, doubts about the wisdom of turning welfare over to religious groups, the souring economy, and a dearth of funds for his defence and education plans.

Americans liked the president well enough, but his aides fretted about his poor performances on big occasions. The New York Times reported that his political aides had decided that "polishing the president's performance skills is an urgent political task". What a lovely little world it was. By week's end, the president of just eight months had declared war. Not an ordinary war against a defined adversary, but a "monumental struggle of good versus evil".

The foreign policy neophyte, who irked allies with his strutting unilateralism and hostility to global treaties, was commander-in-chief of a superpower at war.

Bush quickly phoned leaders in Europe, the Middle East and Asia to forge a coalition to fight the "first war of the 21st century" against terrorists and any state that harbours them. He leaned over his desk in the Oval Office, his face quivering with emotion and resolve. "I'm a loving guy. I'm also someone who's got a job to do and I intend to do it ... this country will not relent until we have saved ourselves and others from the terrible tragedy that came upon America".

22 posted on 09/14/2001 10:35:50 PM PDT by robnoel
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To: mqg25
I agree, but let me ask you if..Slick Willy was still President do you think he would have the same support among freepers? Do you think there would be a united front of support, or do you think a lot of second guessing, finger pointing and even criticism? Be honest.

I think there would be a wait-and-see undertone. I've not criticized the President, but I have been worried about our Resolve with all the talk of arrests. Not so much worried about our resolve -- but I think ANY weakness on our part will create MORE islamic fundamental terrorists.

Clinton deserved all criticism related to foreign matters after his first "widely acclaimed" bombing campaign. He showed no resolve -- he would not finish what he started -- and he's why we're in this mess now.

23 posted on 09/14/2001 10:39:14 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: Naspino
"I be interested in hearing yours (view on Revelations) at sometime."

Would love to discuss it with you at some time in the future....

24 posted on 09/14/2001 10:39:33 PM PDT by mqg25
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To: Naspino
Those that would have stood against the government, are now the first that would turn you in.
Well I'm one of them. :-) I've been pretty vocal about my belief that we need all of the things I just outlined. HOW ELSE CAN you stop terrorists within our borders. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


You have got to be kidding! No matter what safe guards that are put into place you will never (NEVER) completely stop terrorism. Terrorism is just another form of crime. AND as we all know, whatever law is passed and enforced crimes are still committed. (i.e. a very simple example is fuzz busters. Some one invented a device that can detect a police radar to prevent speeding tickets. So the cops came up with a radar that fools the original fuzz buster ....so another person invented the FUZZ BUSTER II that beats the new and improved cop radar..and so on and so on.)


What the first step will be is the implemtenation of more cameras. ID cameras like the ones used in Europe. In malls, Airports etc. They will get pictures of everyone and immediately check their faces against a database of known criminals. "Not so bad" most people will say? (Right Naspino?)

Well, soon that will evolve into ID and checks against the database for people whose expressions are similar to that of people known to get violent. (patterns, profiling etc)

"Not so bad" most people will say? (Right Naspino?)

25 posted on 09/14/2001 10:39:57 PM PDT by FUSSBALL
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To: Naspino
If the time comes when congress imposes a non-removeable "body id" mechanism device (such as Digital Angel) upon it's own citizens. and a) the President vetoes the act and is overturned or b) signs the act into law, the United States will cease to exist. There will be a terrible confligration within our borders. At that time the Good Lord will step in and end it at His own choosing.

While I have some doubts about the congress' willingness to oppose such and act, I have no doubts about our what our current President's attitude to such an act would be. He would veto it without a second thought. He is a Good Man, well versed in the teachings of the Scriptures, and would never sublimate himself or his people to such an outragous indignity.

National ID card? Not this year, or next. If this thing drags on long enough and enough Americans are killed in the upcoming Nuke, Chem and Bio attacks, it may happen in 2003. The question then will be will GW have the Will to resist signing it into law. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

26 posted on 09/14/2001 10:41:43 PM PDT by rmccullo
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To: Naspino
He opens Windows 2000 Professional, opens SQL Server, and runs: UPDATE CITIZENS SET ACTIVE=0 WHERE BLOOD="Jew" -- Run

Seek treatment immediately. And, for God's sake, resume your thorazine prescription.
27 posted on 09/14/2001 10:41:50 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: MrBambaLaMamba
Carthage was never again a major threat to Rome.

Well Caesar was awesome -- surrounded 30-1 (I think near Scotland) his army built a series of fortress walls leading up to the castle he'd just conquered. By the end of the battle he'd slaughtered the entire enemy army with hardly no losses on his on side. I think the final assualt ended up in burning to death over 20,000.

Not bad when you are the one surrounded..

28 posted on 09/14/2001 10:41:53 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: robnoel
The foreign policy neophyte, who irked allies with his strutting unilateralism and hostility to global treaties, was commander-in-chief of a superpower at war.

Even if we do end up with a NWO -- I don't think this is some Illuminati, Skull & Bones, thing that Bush and his father cooked up. I think the move towards a NWO is a logical move based on the need for security against a shadowy enemy.

Bush did not invent Islamic Fundamentalism and did not anger these people 5 years ago to come over here and do what they did.

29 posted on 09/14/2001 10:44:16 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: My2Cents
PAX AMERICA and FORTRESS AMERICA
30 posted on 09/14/2001 10:44:46 PM PDT by TD911
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To: Naspino
You and I are thinking in the same lines. Now airlines won't even allow shaving razers or pins onto the plane. Why? All we will end up doing is disarming those who don't have the intent or desire to commit these acts. I can snap a plastic ruler across my knee and get a weapon, or even a pencil is sharp enough.
Remember those who fought back. Tell the terrorist that we ain't afraid of THEM no more.
31 posted on 09/14/2001 10:45:15 PM PDT by In veno, veritas
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To: robnoel
Thanks for the rational note in an irrational thread.

The trick here is to get unity and security for our actions without giving up the freedoms that we'd like to protect.
Otherwise, who cares who is in charge?
In reality, that would be "who can care about who is in charge".

Ain't no great religious crusade here, not on our part.
We are, like it or not, a Judeo-Christian nation and that shapes our goals and responses.
It does not dictate our actions beyond things like the ten commandments.

We are also the product of English legal and social evolution - as in Magna Carta.
In that light we must remain on guard against another FDR, another Lincoln, who would dispense with our constitution and our hard won rights in order to defeat an enemy that, unlike the lost rights, will fade away after the fight.
All right, the South did not fade away, it merely fell all over itself trying to prove it's loyalty (see casualty figures in all subsequent wars) without convincing the other side.

32 posted on 09/14/2001 10:45:59 PM PDT by norton
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: FUSSBALL
Well, soon that will evolve into ID and checks against the database for people whose expressions are similar to that of people known to get violent. (patterns, profiling etc)

I think your right. I think we will see more terrorist acts, maybe worse than this one -- because of its difficulty in stopping it. Each time I think we'll see a new "resolve" to tighten the noose down on it.

However, I would not be surprised to see a very RAPID move to all of these things as the immediate result of this action -- while you still have this "feel" that questioning the decisions of the President will label you as a traitor. Now is the time to get MUCH done. Your right though it will never be enough to stop ALL terrorism, but it will surely stop a lot of it.

If we don't have a SERIOUS military response that eliminates --- the religion of terrorism -- then there will surely be MANY of attempts. The problem is that we can't identify them -- and we can't blanket label all Islamic people as terrorists. So -- I'm thinking our military response will be limited and the majority of the changes will happen here at home and in our NWO friends. We'll make it very hard for THEM to get here and even harder to move about.

34 posted on 09/14/2001 10:49:15 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: Naspino
Short Answer to Question Posed by Article's Title: Yes.

Tuor

35 posted on 09/14/2001 10:50:24 PM PDT by Tuor
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To: rmccullo
National ID card? Not this year, or next. If this thing drags on long enough and enough Americans are killed in the upcoming Nuke, Chem and Bio attacks, it may happen in 2003. The question then will be will GW have the Will to resist signing it into law. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I don't know. I think the President will veto an implant -- maybe not the national id -- he has some pretty radical thoughts on immigration.

Our "friends" will surely lead the pace in new technology implementation because of their already eroded sense of freedom.

36 posted on 09/14/2001 10:50:59 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: Old Hickory
We see patriotism, gun ownership and prayer are on the increase because of this attack.

Although I do agree....personally I think Americans greatest security blanket will be there right to keep and bear arms....if you start to see any further efforts to take this right away then I am afraid to say it will be the time this grand 235 year experiment in freedom has run its course....the events this week were IMHO the result of decades of lies from politicians on both sides and the biggest failure of all... the so called press to be honest with the American people

37 posted on 09/14/2001 11:07:27 PM PDT by robnoel
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To: Naspino
Certainly I don't believe bio-implants will show up tomorrow or the next year or the next.

The company that produced Digital Angel fully expects to have the device implanted into humans starting next year.

The article can be found here:

http://www.catholictradition.org/cfn-digital.htm

There is a whole lot more that could be added to your list concerning world affairs, including that Israel is a nation with a homeland for the first time in 2500 years.  Little Israel has beaten the odds more times than we can count.  That can only be by the hand of God.  It seems that things are happening at a much faster rate of speed all the time.  IMHO, anything can happen at any time.

BTW, ignor the flamers.  They will find out the Truth one way or another - and this is not a flame towards them.  It is just that some people have to learn the hard way.

38 posted on 09/14/2001 11:07:45 PM PDT by ratdog
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To: In veno, veritas
All we will end up doing is disarming those who don't have the intent or desire to commit these acts. I can snap a plastic ruler across my knee and get a weapon, or even a pencil is sharp enough.

Well we've been telling libs for years that knives are just as dangerous as guns except the gun gives us a chance to win at a distance. There is NO WAY security can stop all weapons from getting on board -- just today they announced a 68% ability to get knives through the NEW security checks. We have to stop the people from moving in our country based on WHO they are not WHAT they have.

39 posted on 09/14/2001 11:09:15 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: Old Hickory
so I fail to see the NWO-Zionist-conspiracy angle that people on this site are proposing lately

I think thats what makes it so incidious. Becoming nationalistic is part of the NWO -- to a certain extent it involves being able to pinpoint and persecute those that are suspicious and might endanger the public. Question is -- how do you do that? Closing the borders is impossible...one terrorist that makes it through can kill 5000 people...

40 posted on 09/14/2001 11:12:15 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: robnoel
Although I do agree....personally I think Americans greatest security blanket will be there right to keep and bear arms

I see this stopping criminals... not terrorists? They don't have to stand in front of you are look you in the eye. They pack a car full of explosives and drive it up to your house -- and they may even sit in it while it blows up...

Guns are the answer to THIS particular threat. I don't think anyone in government will argue that.

41 posted on 09/14/2001 11:14:10 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: Naspino
The NWO is a good thing -- your security will be assured by the full faith of our armed services.

Are you being sarcastic? I hope so.

No one can assure my security...or yours either.

Only the dead are perfectly safe.

Tuor

42 posted on 09/14/2001 11:15:22 PM PDT by Tuor
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To: MrBambaLaMamba
Do you actually think these enemies of ours are going to stand up together and fight us face-to-face?

Hah! They know they can't fight us that way. That is the whole reason they resort to terrorism to fight us.

Tuor

43 posted on 09/14/2001 11:17:37 PM PDT by Tuor
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To: Naspino
Closing the borders is impossible...one terrorist that makes it through can kill 5000 people...

I'll add to that. The terrorists that did this had expired visas -- they should have been hunted down and removed anyway. I think these issues are going to take on a BIG role in future debates about our internal security. We will obviously look more like Israel after this. If you are in Israel you see people with M16s in the malls, at checkpoints, walking down the street, even driving between cities you'll see them up on the hills walking across border lines.

Its a free society -- I can walk around all I want because I don't look like an Arab. However -- you might occasionally be stopped and asked to prove your identity. Getting into the country is VERY easy -- getting OUT is extremely hard -- don't ask me...

They control their airspace and the airports are a considerable distance from the cities. They have marshals on every flights.

44 posted on 09/14/2001 11:18:54 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: Naspino
Guns are the answer to THIS particular threat.

Sorry meant "Guns are NOT the ..."

45 posted on 09/14/2001 11:19:38 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: Tuor
No one can assure my security...or yours either.

No one can assure your security from a criminal -- however -- if they implement internal security -- you'll see daily lives resume to normal without fear from islamic fundamentalists.

46 posted on 09/14/2001 11:20:50 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: Naspino
You are very wise. If the big brother supporters think we were not loosing our freedoms before then just wait about a year from now. Will we all be allowed to chat here ? If so how much will we still be able to say before they come and get us ? It is rather frightening.
47 posted on 09/14/2001 11:21:37 PM PDT by Revel
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To: Naspino
Where is Maurice Strong these days?
48 posted on 09/14/2001 11:22:38 PM PDT by oldlizzie
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To: Naspino
if they had bio, chem, or nuclear weapons they would use it -- only a VERY powerful and aggressive intelligence gathering community and internal security is going to stop that

I consider myself of above average - when it comes to tactical things...
And I could tell you, I wouldn't use it.
Seriously, want to know what I'd do, in their position?

One of two things. Attack like they have been, and wait for a counter attack... then use the nuke (it will be a backpack device)... on a city.
Or... if I only had one...
I might wait for the American armies to take the field... and use it on them.

Using your best weapons first is not necessarily the best tactic. It depends on your overall strategy.

Its Powell's statements about arrest and trial that are worrying me right now -- but I'll let that pass as disinformation for the moment.

Well, disinfo from his own mouth is rather damning, IMO...

Well, I see them as the same thing.. GOP = return to founding fathers -- gradually. We can't afford to lose elections to Socialists that will drag us farther into chaos

Disgree. Each election no matter WHO wins drags us farther into socialism and chaos. If this were not the case, we'd see gradual returns of freedom when Republicans were in power. We don't. We see SLOWER erosions of freedom.

Our enemy can't be beaten on the battlefield alone.

On that, I disagree again. Hard to win a battle when you're dead. We can simply kill them all.

49 posted on 09/14/2001 11:25:22 PM PDT by DAnconia55
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To: robnoel
I'm scared - really scared - not of the terrorists, but of our representatives in Washington

I didn't want to post it, but I've been thinking the exact same thing. I can live with random violence...

I don't think I can live in a police state. For long at least...

50 posted on 09/14/2001 11:26:29 PM PDT by DAnconia55
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