Posted on 09/16/2001 7:40:35 PM PDT by jays911
Toward the end he got wound up. He said that it is the responsibility of Christians to protect the innocent. He said If you have a gun and you see someone with a knife about to harm a child you need to shoot them!! Then he said a few more things about how we need to eliminate those responsible with determined and devastating attack.
Then he said now we know we do not have a pacifist preacher. LOL It was grand!
Then people from the audience spoke. Geez. We really are a bunch of wusses here. More than half the people basically said we shouldn't engage in violence, and/or we shouldn't escalate the conflict. It was really damned excruciating to listen to. There were a bunch of Quakers saying non-violence is the answer (apparently, the other side doesn't feel this way!). One of the Quakers read this poem that he wrote. Kept going on about we are we and we are they or some damned thing about how all humans are the same. Except he didn't mention that not all of us feel the need to hijack a plane and try to kill 5000 people so we can go to paradise and get our 17 virgins in paradise after killing the great satan. And we had your standard dingbat female high school student announce that politicians didn't understand the younger generation or some crap like that. This Sikh guy spoke (about 10 Sikhs came), and he said that the Sikhs supported the US and that just because they had turbans and a beard didn't mean they advocated violence or holy war, etc. He was actually fairly eloquent). One guy said that we should finish the job if we start it, and not stop halfway a la Desert Storm, but damn, most of the comments were just crazy. You really have to wonder if there's something in the water up here. Shays is going on, meanwhile, how his committee had 17 hearings about terrorism or something. I'm not sure what committee that might be, but it may be the same one as Condit is STILL on.
To be fair, it was a beautiful day here in CT, and turnout was fairly light (the event was hardly promoted. I only went because I volunteered to help set up, etc).
Hymms finished up on "Battle Hymm of the Republic"
As he died to redeem us
let us die to make men free
His truth is marching on
Glory, glory, halleluiah...
Very inspriring, and an appropriate hymm to remind us of the sacrifices that martyrs to Christian faith, and martyrs to our american liberty have made.
Wednesday night is a county-wide service at a local stadium with Kirbyjon Caldwell speaking. I can't wait!
I will hazard a guess, however, as to why The Immaculate Conception is the patron of the U.S.: Seems to me that to the Vatican of the 18th century, the conception (and the birth) of our country may have seemed "immaculate." I mean, the thought of a nation conceived and built upon such radical ideas must have seemed otherworldly to them.
Of course, I could be competely, totally, and utterly wrong about this, but hey! it's a good guess, no?
Regards,
A war for justice is not only acceptable it is what Jesus would do.-MM
Don't ask my why, but I was nervous of attending and hearing some wimpy pacifistic sermon. Boy were those fears unfounded!
I don't remember what all Father Joel discussed, but he mentioned that while one is supposed to turn the other cheek against insult, there is a moral imperative to defend one's neighbors. He spoke in a loud and forceful tone of voice I've never heard him use before, and he mentioned and praised those who were flooding recruitment offices.
Methinks our attackers had no clue about our real strength.
"Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
"Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them--do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish"
My pastor pointed out that, like the people in these tragedies mentioned by Jesus, those people who died in the attacks in our country were just like each of us, living our lives and not expecting that they would die that day. He said we may hear about the salvation that Jesus provided for us on the Cross and say to ourselves, "I'll respond to that message someday." But, we may lose our lives unexpectedly, so we should respond today. Today is the day of salvation.
Different individuals also prayed aloud for our country and for the families and friends of those killed.
Maybe I can help you find a new Church.
FReepmail me.
God... Why?...
Dr. Jerry S
God… why? Given the reality of Tuesday’s events, this question is being asked throughout our country and the world. There is a very good possibility that God temporarily lifted His hand of protection from America and has judged us for our sins. For years we have sown the wind and now we have reaped the whirlwind of judgment.
It was ironic to see Daschel, Dodd, Kennedy, Gephardt, Mrs. Clinton and other political leaders commiserating in Washington in the midst of this tragedy, singing "God Bless America" and asking the people of America to "pray to God"! Many of these same government "leaders" have been totally opposed to the Lord Jesus Christ, prayer in school or within the halls of government. People who support and promote sexual immorality, sodomy and the wholesale genocide of the unborn stand together and ask the nation to "pray to God".
But what does God have to say about all of this:
24 "Because I called and you refused, I stretched out my hand and no one paid attention;
25 And you neglected all my counsel And did not want my reproof;
26 I will also laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your dread comes,
27 When your dread comes like a storm And your calamity comes like a whirlwind, When distress and anguish come upon you.
28 "Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently but they will not find me,
29 Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of the LORD.
30 "They would not accept my counsel, They spurned all my reproof.
31 "So they shall eat of the fruit of their own way And be satiated with their own devices.
32 "For the waywardness of the naive will kill them, And the complacency of fools will destroy them.
33 "But he who listens to me shall live securely And will be at ease from the dread of evil." (Proverbs 1:24 - 33)
We have a biblical mandate to pray for President Bush and those in leadership, we have a responsibility to pray for the nation. It is our Christian duty and privilege. But God's word is clear: "we reap what we sow". America has chosen and supported many ungodly and unrighteous political and religious leaders because they are reflective of what many Americans themselves believe and how many of us morally and spiritually live our lives. We have been willing to overlook their ungodly conduct and policies because "character does not matter, it is the economy stupid." Well, God will NOT be mocked. That said, He holds out this promise:
13 "If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people,
14 and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land. (2 Chronicles 7:13 - 14)
We as a nation, founded upon faith in Christ Jesus and biblical principles have replaced Him with other "gods" (which are NOT gods). Many have made a concerted effort to reject Him and tear God out of the very fabric of our society and personal lives. We have tended to treat the Lord Jesus like a "dixie cup" which we use and throw away at our convenience. We expect God not to judge us while asking Him to run to our rescue and protect us from our enemies.
I have an honest question I would like you to answer, whether you agree with me or not. Before the events of September 11th took place, were we as individuals and as a nation living righteous and godly lives? Lives pleasing to God who is Holy, absolutely righteous and totally just? Or had we chosen to forget Christ, spurn His Word and do whatever was right in our own eyes? If the answer is the latter, then no matter how painful it is, the truth is this: We are being judged, as a people for our sin. It is not my intention to offend but we can not use God and expect Him to be at our beck and call. Nor can we call upon Him to "protect" and "defend us" when it is convenient or politically expedient and spurn Jesus and His Word the rest of the time. There is a simple yet profound principle in His Word and it is this: God is not mocked, you reap what you sow and what you reap is multiplied. That is true for individuals, it is also true for nations.
Another question that is being asked boils down to this:
How could God use a nation or individuals even more evil to judge another nation less evil than itself? ... Because He loves us! He did this numerous times throughout the Old Testament. Israel (the Northern kingdom) had turned away from following the Lord and He allowed the Assyrians to overcome and conquer them. The Assyrians were brutal beyond comprehension. They ripped open pregnant women and dashed their babies against walls and pavement, they impaled their living victims, skinned them alive and crushed them under huge threshing sledges. This is just a small sample of what they did to Israel. The Southern kingdom of Judah was later conquered by the Babylonians. A wicked nation, totally given over to idols, worshipping their own strength, and immorality. Why did God allow this? Because His people had persisted in wickedness and in rejecting Him.
God is loving, gracious and long suffering, but there comes a time when His patience is at an end. God is not only a God of love, He is also holy and just. He must judge sin, even the sin of nations. History has shown that no nation can spurn God, reject His Word and law and get away with it. Not Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, Israel, or the United States of America.
Fortunately, God is still in control, He has not forsaken us, there is hope, it is not too late. God loves us and holds out this promise to us as individuals and as a nation:
13 "If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people,
14 and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:13 - 14)
What has happened is an unprecedented tragedy, but we are not without hope. I believe that God can use these events to produce spiritual revival throughout America if we respond in humility and repentance. We have been given a wake up call and a window of opportunity. How we respond is up to us.
One other issue must be addressed. Our nation has been mercilessly attacked. Thousands of civilian citizens are dead and whether we like it or not we are at war. Those responsible, along with those who sponsor and support them must be held accountable and punished. The sword of justice must be now be applied and applied strongly and swiftly upon those who have made themselves our enemies. Otherwise the events of September 11, 2001 will be repeated on an ever-increasing level throughout our land in the days ahead.
If our enemies were able to accomplish all of this with box cutters. Think what they WILL attempt when they obtain biological and nuclear weapons of MASS DESTRUCTION! Do not be under any illusion that they would not dare to use them. They WILL, GLADLY, they will rejoice and pass out more candy to their children as hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of Americans lay dead in the streets.
This is the enemy we are up against and it is the face of pure evil and hate. They will not listen to a message of "love" or "hugs". The only message they will understand, the only message that will get their attention and deter their plans, activities and ultimate goals is the message of overwhelming force leading to THEIR utter destruction.
I do not say these thing because I hate them. (I pray for their souls and for their salvation through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ who can save them and forgive their sins.) I say these things because this is reality. This is the enemy we face and must defeat. If we do not, he alternative will be too horrendous to endure. May God in His mercy grant us repentence and victory. In Jesus name, amen.
REMEMBER THE TOWERS!
First of all, get thee to a traditional Catholic parish/Mass. If you live in Manhattan, St. Agnes on E. 43rd St has a Latin Mass on Sundays at 11AM. From what I know the priests there are not Modernist/Liberal wimps.
Second of all, yes, Egan gave a very good sermon. Were you there? I waited in line for over an hour to get into the Cathedral. I didn't make it in, but I think it was actually better to be outside the Cathedral. I ended up on the front steps. The energy and electricity of the crowd outside was amazing.
I had the same fear that I would find handwringing at church, or worse, silence on the issue (as we had in the pulpit during impeachment).
However...
There was a clear message from the pulpit today, the same as yours. There were so many great thoughts-- I knew I would miss some in my post above (#37)."When your neighbor is struck stand by him and defend him" was one.
Here's an observation: There is a certain grimness in America, everywhere, that's like a wild animal laid low, assessing his attacker. Today following the service there was the annual church picnic, on a beautiful early fall day. The sun was shining, people we talking and laughing, but...
In the air was a sense of determination that I have never, ever felt. It was palpable.
Our attackers will know our full fury for which we will never apologize.
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