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* * JIHAD 101 * * JIHAD 101* * JIHAD 101 * *
various ^ | various

Posted on 09/17/2001 7:17:33 PM PDT by Prodigal Daughter

Words sometimes have more than one meaning. I am not an expert on Arabic. I took some basic university Arabic classes and don't remember a thing. I have been trying for years to find out the definitive meaning of the word "deen" since it is part of my deceased grandfather's last name. he had a religious last name, a professor told me "deen" means religion, but different views and websites give different opinions. One says "deen" is Islam, one says it means way of life, one source says it means life transaction. I expect 20 different websites might produce 15 different opinions.

Jihad is another religious word that appears often in the quran. There have been several debates about jihad here at FR and there is a lot of confusion about the word.

Jihad can mean studying Islam or it can mean killing or lying to unbelievers or killing believers who refuse to kill or lie to unbelievers. It depends on what the circumstances are surrounding Moslems (namely radical Moslems) AND the definition and permission that Moslem clerics have assigned to jihad (literally "struggle"). Also, it matters if we are in the end times mentioned in the Quoran. Here is one iman's sermon on jihad that illustrates this well:

The Religious and Moral Doctrine of JihadImam Ibn Taymiyyah
From "al-Siyaasa al-shar`iyya fee islaah al-raa`ee wa al-raa`iyya"
(Governance according to God’s Law in reforming both the ruler and his flock) Transl. R.P.

The penalties that the Sharee`ah has introduced for those who disobey God and His Messengers are of two kinds: the punishment of those who are under the sway [of the imam], both individuals and collectivities, as has been mentioned before [in the chapter on criminal law], and, secondly, the punishment of recalcitrant groups, such as those that can only be brought under the sway of the Imam by a decisive fight. That then is the jihad against the unbelievers (kuffaar), the enemies of God and His Messenger. For whoever has heard the summons of the Messenger of God, Peace be upon him, and has not responded to it, must be fought, "until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s entirely." [K., 2:193, 8:39]

When God sent His Prophet and ordered him to summon the people to His religion, He did not permit him to kill or fight anyone for that reason before the Prophet emigrated to Medina.

Thereafter He gave him and the Muslims permission with the words:

"Leave is given to those who are fought because they were wronged - surely God is able to help them - who were expelled from their habitations without right, except that they say ‘Our Lord is God.’ Had God not driven back the people, some by the means of others, there had been destroyed cloisters and churches, oratories and mosques, wherein God’s name is much mentioned. Assuredly God will help him who helps Him - surely God is all-strong, all-mighty - who, if We establish them in the land, perform the prayer, and pay the alms, and bid to honour, and forbid dishonour; and unto God belongs the issue of all affairs." [K., 22:39-41]

Then, after that, He imposed fighting to them with the following words: "Prescribed for you is fighting, though it be hateful to you. Yet it may happen that you will hate a thing which is better for you; and it may happen that you love a thing which is worse for you. God knows and you know not." [K., 2:216]

He has emphasized this command and glorified jihad in many of the Medinese suras. He has criticized those who fail to participate in it and called them hypocrites and sick in their hearts. God has said:

"Say: ‘If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your clan, your possessions that you have gained, commerce you fear may slacken, dwellings you love - if these are dearer to you than God and His Messenger, and to struggle in His way, then wait till God brings His command; God guides not the people of the ungodly.’" [K., 9:24]


"The believers are those who believe in God and His Messenger, then have not doubted, and have struggled with their possessions and their selves in the way of God; those - they are the truthful ones." [K., 49:15]


"Then, when a clear sura is sent down, and therein fighting is mentioned, thou seest those in whose heart is sickness looking at thee as one who swoons of death; but better for them would be obedience and words honourable. Then when the matter is resolved, if they were true to God, it would be better for them." [K., 47:20-21]

There are numerous similar verses in the Koran and equally frequent is the glorification of jihad and those who participate in it, [for instance] in Surat the Ranks (al-saff):

"O believers, shall I direct you to a commerce that shall deliver you from a painful chastisement? You shall believe in God and His Messenger, and struggle in the way of God with your possessions and your selves. That is better for you, did you but know. He will forgive you your sins and admit you into gardens underneath which rivers flow, and to dwelling places goodly in Gardens of Eden; that is the mighty triumph; and other things you love, help from God an a nigh victory. Give thou good tidings to the believers." [K., 61:10-13]

And [elsewhere] He has said:

"Do you reckon the giving of water to pilgrims and the inhabiting of the Holy Mosque as the same as one who believes in God and the Last Day and struggles in the way of God? Not equal are they in God’s sight; and God guides not the people of the evildoers. Those who believe, and have emigrated, and have struggled in the way of God with their possessions and their selves are mightier in rank with God; and those - they are the triumphant; their Lord gives them good tidings of mercy from Him and good pleasure; for them await gardens wherein is lasting bliss, therein to dwell forever and ever; surely with God is a mighty wage." [K., 9:19-21]


"O believers, whosoever of you turns from his religion, God will assuredly bring a people He loves, and who love Him, humble towards the believers, disdainful towards the unbelievers, men who struggle in the path of God, not fearing the reproach of any reproacher. That is God’s bounty; He gives it unto whom He will." [K., 5:54]

And He has said:

"That is because they are smitten neither by thirst, nor fatigue, nor emptiness in the way of God, neither tread they any tread enraging the unbelievers, nor gain any gain from any enemy, but a righteous deed is thereby written to their account; God leaves not to waste the wage of the good-doers. Nor do they expend any sum, small or great, nor do they traverse any valley, but it is written to their account, that God may recompense them the best of what they were doing." [K., 9:120-121]

Thus He has mentioned [the reward] resulting from their deeds and the deeds they must practice.

The command to participate in jihad and the mention of its merits occur innumerable times in the Koran and the Sunna. Therefore it is the best voluntary [religious] act that man can perform. All scholars agree that it is better than the hajj (greater pilgrimage) and the `umra (lesser pilgrimage), than voluntary salaat and voluntary fasting, as the Koran and the Sunna indicate. The Prophet, Peace be upon him, has said: "The head of the affair is Islam, its central pillar is the salaat and the summit is the jihad." And he has said: "In Paradise there are a hundred grades with intervals as wide as the distance between the sky and the earth. All these God has prepared for those who take part in jihad." There is unanimity about the authenticity of this Tradition. Al-Bukhaari has transmitted that he has said: "Him whose feet have become dusty in the way of God [i.e. jihad] will God save from hellfire." And, as related by Muslim, he has said:

"A day and a night spent in ribaat [remaining at the frontiers of Islam with the intention of defending Islamic territory against the enemies] are better than one month spent in fasting and vigils. If he dies [in the fulfillment of this task], he will receive the recompense of his deeds and subsistence, and he will be protected from the Angel of the Grave."

It is related in the Sunan that "a day spent in ribaat in the way of God is better than thousand days spent elsewhere." He has said, "Two eyes will not be touched by the fire: the eye that has wept out of fear for God and the eye that has spent the night on the watch in the way of God." Al-Tirmidhi has said about this tradition that it is good (hasan). In the Musnad of Ahmad ibn Hanbal we find: "A night spent on the watch in the way of God is better than a thousand nights and days spent in nightly vigils and fasting." In the Saheeh of al-Bukhaari as well as the Saheeh of Muslim we find:

"A man said: ‘O Messenger of God, tell me of an act that equals jihad in the way of God.’ He answered: ‘You will not be capable of it.’ The man said: ‘Tell me anyway.’ The Messenger of God said: ‘Can you, when a jihad warrior has gone out on expedition, fast without interruption and spend the night in continuous prayer?’ The man said: ‘No.’ Then the Messenger of God said: ‘This then is what equals jihad.’ M In the Sunan we find that Mohammed has said: "Every community has its devotional journeys and the devotional journey of my community is jihad in the way of God."

This is a vast subject, unequalled by other subjects as far as the reward and merit of human deeds is concerned. This is evident upon closer examination. The [first] reason is that the benefit of jihad is general, extending not only to the person who participates in it but also to others, both in a religious and a temporal sense. [Secondly,] jihad implies all kinds of worship, both in its inner and outer forms. More than any other act it implies love and devotion for God, Who is exalted, trust in Him, the surrender of one’s life and property to Him, patience, asceticism, remembrance of God and all kinds of other acts [of worship]. Any individual or community that participates in it, finds itself between two blissful outcomes: either victory and triumph or martyrdom and Paradise. [Thirdly,] all creatures must live and die. Now, it is in jihad that one can live and die in ultimate happiness, both in this world and in the Hereafter. Abandoning it means losing entirely or partially both kinds of happiness. There are people who want to perform religious and temporal deeds full of hardship in spite of their lack of benefit, whereas actually jihad is religiously and temporally more beneficial than any other deed full of hardship. Other people [participate in it] out of a desire to make things easy for themselves when death meets them, for the death of a martyr is easier than any other form of death. On fact, it is the best of all manners of dying.

Since lawful warfare is essentially jihad and since its aim is that the religion is God’s entirely [2:189, 8:39] and God’s word is uppermost [9:40], therefore, according to all Muslims, those who stand in the way of this aim must be fought. As for those who cannot offer resistance or cannot fight, such as women, children, monks, old people, the blind, handicapped and their likes, they shall not be killed, unless they actually fight with words [e.g. by propaganda] and acts [e.g. by spying or otherwise assisting in the warfare]. Some [jurists] are of the opinion that all of them may be killed, on the mere ground that they are unbelievers, but they make an exception for women and children since they constitute property for Muslims. However, the first opinion is the correct one, because we may only fight those who fight us when we want to make God’s religion victorious. God, Who is exalted, has said in this respect: "And fight in the way of God those who fight you, but transgress not: God loves not the transgressors." [The Qur’aan, 2:190]. In the Sunan it is reported from the Messenger of God, Peace be upon him:

"That he once passed by a woman who had been slain. The Messenger of God halted and said: ‘She was not one who would have fought.’ Then he said to one of [his companions]: ‘Catch up with Khaalid ibn al-Waleed and tell him not to kill women, children and serfs.’"

It is also reported in the Sunan that he used to say: "Do not kill very old men, nor small children or women." The reason is that God has [only] permitted to shed blood if that is necessary for the welfare of the creation. He has said: "Persecution is more grievous than slaying." [The Qur’aan, 2:191]. This means that, although there is evil and abomination in killing, there is greater evil and abomination in the persecution of the unbelievers. Now, the unbelief of those who do not hinder the Muslims from establishing God’s religion, is only prejudicial to themselves. In the same vein, the jurists have said that he one who propagates innovations (bid`a) that are contrary to the Koran and the Sunna must be punished much more severely than the person [who holds such beliefs but] remains silent. "A mistake that is kept secret," says a Tradition, "only harms the person who has committed it, but if it becomes public and is not denounced, it harms the community."

The Sharee`a enjoins fighting the unbelievers, but not the killing of those who have been captured. If a male unbeliever is taken captive during warfare or otherwise, e.g. as a result of a shipwreck, or because he lost his way, or as a result of a ruse, then the head of state (imaam) may do whatever he deems appropriate: killing him, enslaving him, releasing him or setting him free for a ransom consisting in either property or people. This is the view of most jurists and it is supported by the Koran and the Sunna. There are, however, some jurists who hold that the options of releasing them or setting them free for a ransom have been abrogated. As for the People of the Book and the Zoroastrians (Majoos), they are to be fought until they become Muslims or pay the tribute (jizya) out of hand and have been humbled. With regard to the others, the jurists differ as to the lawfulness of taking tribute from them. Most of them regard it as unlawful of taking tribute from them. Most of them regard it as unlawful to accept it from [heathen] Arabs.

If a rebellious group, although belonging to Islam, refuses to comply with clear and universally accepted commands, all Muslims agree that jihad must be waged against them, in order that the religion will be God’s entirely. Thus Aboo Bakr al-Siddeeq and other Companions, may God be pleased with them, have fought those who refused to pay zakaat. Initially some of the Companions hesitated in fighting them, but eventually they all agreed. ` Umar ibn al-Khattaab said to Aboo Bakr, may God be pleased with them,: "How can you fight these people? Has the Messenger of God, Peace be upon him, not said: ‘I have been ordered to fight people until they profess that there is no God and that Mohammad is God’s Messenger. If they say that, their lives and properties will be inviolable for me, unless there is a rule of law that allows taking them. [For their actions] they must render account to God.’’" Aboo Bakr then said: "The [obligation to pay] zakaat is such a rule. By God, if they refuse to give me one she-kid which they used to give to the Messenger of God, Peace be upon him, I shall fight them for this refusal." `Umar said: "Then I realized immediately that God had opened his heart for fighting and I knew that that was right."

There are various authentic Traditions according to which the Prophet, Peace be upon him, has ordered to fight the Kharijites. In the Saheeh of al-Bukhaari as well as the Saheeh of Muslim it is reported on the authority of `Alee ibn Abee Taalib, may God be pleased with him, that he said:

"I have heard the Messenger of God, Peace be upon him, saying: ‘Towards the end of time a group will emerge, young of age and simple of minds, who will speak the most beautiful words, but whose faith does not go deeper than their throats. They will abandon the religion just like an arrow pierces and then abandons a game animal. Wherever you will find them you must kill them since those who kill them will be rewarded on the Day of Resurrection.’"

Muslim has reported that `Alee, may God be pleased with him, said:

`"I have heard the Messenger of God, Peace be upon him, saying: ‘A group of people will emerge from amongst my community, who will recite the Koran [very well]. Your recitation is nothing compared to theirs. Likewise your way of performing salaat and your way of fasting are nothing compared with theirs. They will recite the Koran believing that it[s text] supports them, whereas [in reality] it condemns them. Their recitation does not go deeper than their collarbones. They will abandon the religion just like an arrow pierces and then abandons a game animal. If the army that reaches them would know how much [reward] the Prophet has promised them, they would rely on this deed [alone and not worry about other good deeds]."

In another version of this Tradition, transmitted on the authority of Abu Sa`eed from the Prophet, Peace be upon him, we find the following words: "They will fight the people of faith and leave the idolaters. If I live long enough to meet them, I shall kill them in the manner the tribe of `Aad was killed. There is unanimity about the authenticity of this tradition.

In another Tradition reported by Muslim it is said: "My community will fall apart into two parties. From amongst them there will emerge heretics (maariqa). The party that is closest to truth will be in charge of killing them."

These were the people that were killed by the Commander of the Faithful `Alee, when the breach between the people of Iraq and the people of Syria took place. They were called hurooriyya. The Prophet, Peace be upon him, has made it clear that both parties into which the community had fallen apart, belonged to his community and that the partisans of `Alee were closer to the truth. He incited to fight only those heretics that had abandoned Islam and had left the community and that had permitted the taking of the lives and properties of the other Muslims. It has been established on the authority of the Koran, the Sunna, and the Consensus of the Community, that those who depart from the law of Islam must be fought, even if they pronounce the two professions of faith.

The jurists disagree about the permissibility to fight rebellious groups that abandon an established supererogatory act of worship (sunna raatiba), such as the two [extra] rak`as of dawn prayer. There is, however, unanimity that it is allowed to fight people for [not observing] unambiguous and generally recognized obligations and prohibitions, until they undertake to perform the explicitly prescribed prayers, to pay zakaat, to fast during the month of Ramadaan, to make the pilgrimage to Mecca and to avoid what is prohibited, such as marrying women in spite of legal impediments, eating impure things, acting unlawfully against the lives and properties of Muslims and the like. It is obligatory to take the initiative in fighting those people, as soon as the Prophet’s summons with the reasons for which they are fought has reached them. But if they first attack the Muslims, then fighting them is even more urgent, as we have mentioned when dealing with the fighting against rebellious and aggressive bandits.

The most serious type of obligatory jihad is the one against the unbelievers and against those who refuse to abide by certain prescription of the Sharee`ah, like those who refuse to pay zakaat, the Kharijites and the like. This jihad is obligatory if it is carried out on our initiative and also if it is waged as defence. If we take the initiative, it is a collective duty, [which means that] if it is fulfilled by a sufficient number [of Muslims], the obligation lapses for all others and the merit goes to those who have fulfilled it, just as God, He is exalted, has said:

"Such believers as sit at home - unless they have an injury - are not equals [of those who struggle in the path of God with their possessions and their selves. God has preferred in rank those who struggle in the path of God with their possessions and their selves over the ones who sit at home; yet to each God has promised the reward most fair; and God has preferred those who struggle over the ones who sit at home for the bounty of a mighty wage, in ranks standing before Him, forgiveness and mercy." [K., 4:95-96]

But if the enemy wants to attack the Muslims, then repelling him becomes a duty for all those under attack and for the others to help them. God, He is exalted, has said: "Yet if they ask you for help, for religion’s sake, it is your duty to help them." [K., 8:72] In the same vein the Prophet has ordered Muslims to help fellow Muslims. The assistance, which is obligatory both for the regular professional army and for others, must be given, according to everybody’s possibilities, either in person, by fighting on foot or on horseback, or through financial contributions, be they small or large. When the Muslim were attacked by the enemy in the year of the Trench, God did not permit anybody to abandon jihad, although He did allow them not to take part in jihad [after the siege was lifted[ in order to pursue the enemy. At that occasion He divided them into two categories, those who sat at home and those who marched out, and He criticized those who were asking the Prophet for leave [not to take part in jihad]: "[And a part of them were asking leave of the Prophet,] saying, ‘Our houses are exposed’; yet they were not exposed; they desired only to flee." [K., 33:13]

So the latter [form of jihad] consists in defense of the religion, of things that are inviolable, and of lives. Therefore it is fighting out of necessity. The former [type of jihad], however, is voluntary fighting in order to propagate the religion, to make it triumph and to intimidate the enemy, such as was the case with the expedition to Tabook and the like. Now, this form of punishment [i.e. jihad] must be administered to rebellious people. As for inhabitants of the territory of Islam who are not rebellious ]but refuse to carry out religious duties], they must be forced to carry out their obligations such as the five fundamental duties of Islam and others like the delivering of trusts to their owners and the preserving of covenants in social relations.

TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous

1 posted on 09/17/2001 7:17:33 PM PDT by Prodigal Daughter
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To: Prodigal Daughter
Good post!
2 posted on 09/17/2001 7:18:53 PM PDT by neutrino (Neutrino)
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To: Prodigal Daughter
goos one. You know, when I was first married, I had neighbors who were Palestinian. They named their daughter Jihad!
3 posted on 09/17/2001 7:22:57 PM PDT by Temple Drake
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To: thread
Right now, the majority of Moslems do not believe in forcing religion and the majority of Islam teaches peaceful coexistence, not forcing an unbelieving wife to convert to Islam, etc.

However, if a cleric were to declare jihad due to non-Moslem aggression which can be defined any number of ways, eviction from homes, for instance, it ceases being a peaceful religion. (I think this must be why the PLO acts from within neighborhoods, so that they can later claim non-Moslem aggression against them (and the necessity of "self defense" jihad) because homes are involved) .

Killing non-muslims

4 posted on 09/17/2001 7:38:50 PM PDT by Prodigal Daughter
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To: Prodigal Daughter
Look at the nations where Islam is in absolute authority. That will tell you Islam's intent and nature.
6 posted on 09/17/2001 7:49:08 PM PDT by RLK
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To: thread
First paragraph is striking: The punishment of recalcitrant groups, such as those that can only be brought under the sway of the Imam by a decisive fight. That then is the jihad against the unbelievers (kuffaar), the enemies of God and His Messenger.

And this one: "That he once passed by a woman who had been slain. The Messenger of God halted and said: ‘She was not one who would have fought.’ Then he said to one of [his companions]: ‘Catch up with Khaalid ibn al-Waleed and tell him not to kill women, children and serfs.’"


Remember if jihad can be defined as propaganda by at least some clerics, then it stands to reason that many articles online in English directed to non-Muslims that claim jihad can never mean killing, MIGHT BE PROPAGANDA!!

The Levels of Jihaad

7 posted on 09/17/2001 7:51:02 PM PDT by Prodigal Daughter
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To: Prodigal Daughter

Date:  Tuesday, September 11, 2001

From:  Steven Snyder, President, International Christian Concern

"The LORD is my light and my salvation-- whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life-- of whom shall I be afraid? When evil men advance against me to devour my flesh, when my enemies and my foes attack me, they will stumble and fall. Though an army besiege me, my heart will not fear; though war break out against me, even then will I be confident." Psalms 27:1-3

Dear friends of International Christian Concern:

America is reeling with grief from today's attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. The United States has been plunged into a state of war, a war against a stealth terrorist-force that will be difficult to fight. The enemy is not necessarily a government, an individual, or a single nation. There is speculation that the attack was carried out by Muslim terrorists. If this proves to be correct, America is witnessing what Christians in other parts of the world have been enduring for some time. We are at war with an unseen enemy that has demonstrated its resolve to launch a "jihad" (holy war) on Americans, Christians, and Jews - and will show no mercy for innocent lives. We have turned a new page not only in American history but in the history of the world.

ICC has been responding to an increasing number of cries for help worldwide where Christians have been targeted for "jihad" by an extremist-brand of Islam that justifies its violence and treachery on the teachings of the Koran. The war is as much a spiritual war (religious some would say) as it is a war of contrasting ideologies and cultures. The lives of Christians worldwide are in greater danger today than they were 5 years ago - even more so than just 24 hours ago.<.b>

Christians in Indonesia are fleeing for their lives as Muslim jihad warriors continue their latest plans to bring all Indonesia under Islamic "sharia" law. In Ambon, the terrorist group Laskar Jihad Ahluss Sunnah Wal Jamaah is now ready to pursue a Jihad mission in Poso, central Sulawesi. A banner on the web site of the Laskar Jihad ( promotes violence and incites Muslims to join the ranks of the jihad to fight against the Christians in Poso, throughout Indonesia and beyond.

As once declared in Senayan, Jakarta on May the 6th 2000 and evidenced by its current presence in Ambon, "Laskar Jihad will never compromise its commitment to defending oppressed Muslims wherever they may be." Another Islamist statement of the Laskar Jihad reveals their intentions: "Anyone who prepares the necessities of a Ghazi (a warrior of jihad) striving for sabilillah (in Allah's cause) is (rewarded equal to that of) a Ghazi, and anyone who looks after dependents of a Ghazi striving in Allah's cause is (rewarded equal to that of) a Ghazi" (Recorded by Bukhari, a Muslim).

Islamic extremists try to justify their actions on the Koran: "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful" (Sura 9:5).

Intolerance toward Christians has again been demonstrated in Saudi Arabia where 14 Christians have been detained in recent weeks and Afghanistan where more than 50 Christians (including Muslim accomplices) have been detained - for no other reason than they are Christians whose faith cannot be tolerated.

As Christians, we are not at war against people of the Islamic faith. But we are at war against the evil spirit that spurs radical Muslims, or that of any other radical force, whose agenda is to hate and kill. Muslims who follow the Islamic faith have rights, as do people of all faiths and cultures; to practice their beliefs and freely speak their opinions. However, when those opinions turn to violence and forced conversions (as we see happening in Indonesia and elsewhere) and when citizens (as we have seen today in the United States) are held hostage to their brand of abusive power, then we need to recognize that this is no longer an issue of religion or politics, but is a matter of serious threat to human life, freedom, and justice. The perpetrators of such evil must be dealt with.

The role of government, both foreign and domestic, clearly is to protect and defend those who are oppressed and those whose lives are threatened. Everything at our disposal should be and must be used to combat this threat that has been perpetrated on America and all freedom-loving people. No more appeasement! A rational plan is needed. Our president and all international leaders must come to grips with what has happened and deal with this threat. If any country, be it Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Libya, has in any way helped finance or endorsed treachery of this magnitude must be dealt with ever so firmly.

The staff and partners worldwide of International Christian Concern extend our heart-felt sympathy with every individual and family who has suffered injury or the loss of a loved one. We call on every Christian to consecrate this day as a time to pray for America, for the victims, and the families of all who have suffered a loss today at the hands of those responsible for this diabolical attack. The reality of the threats we now face in this day and age have most certainly hit home.

Steven Snyder 
International Christian Concern

Posted:  September 15, 2001

8 posted on 09/17/2001 8:17:49 PM PDT by hope
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To: hope
Bold off.

Interesting post. Thanks.

9 posted on 09/17/2001 8:31:25 PM PDT by Cleburne
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To: Cleburne
:) thank you for restoring the font!
10 posted on 09/17/2001 8:41:11 PM PDT by hope
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To: Prodigal Daughter

A very informative post indeed!!

Thank you very much Prodigal Daughter.


14 posted on 09/19/2001 2:00:17 PM PDT by Eaker
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To: Prodigal Daughter
Killing non-muslims link above was pulled, now it says that question hasn't been translated yet, how convenient. Hopefully I saved it and will post it here when I find it.
15 posted on 10/29/2001 5:43:19 AM PST by Prodigal Daughter
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