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A bully with a bloody nose is still a bully (Eurotrash alert)
The Guardian (U.K.) ^ | 09/19/2001 | Charlotte Raven

Posted on 09/18/2001 5:43:36 PM PDT by Pokey78

Most people in the world had more than one response to what happened to the US last Tuesday. I think it is safe to say that apart from three or four Palestinians, everyone is sad to see so many of their fellow humans killed in such horrendous circumstances. That goes for most Muslims and the great majority of those who might have been quite pleased to see the US get a different kind of comeuppance. For this second group, in which I include myself, the unqualified sympathy extended to the victims is underpinned by a feeling that few have dared even to whisper. My next-door neighbour said it, and so did a rogue Palestinian whose views have not yet been censored in the name of "taste". They are better placed than I am, as a broadsheet commentator, to admit to a part of them that thinks that the US might benefit from an insight into what it feels like to be knocked to your knees by a faceless power deaf to everything but the logic of its own crazed agenda.

There's nothing shameful about this position. It is perfectly possible to condemn the terrorist action and dislike the US just as much as you did before the WTC went down. Many will have woken up on Wednesday with that combination of emotions. Some were more "ha" than sorrow, but most had the proportions right and none should be accused of inhumanity. If anti-Americanism has been seized, temporarily, by forces that have done dreadful things in its name, there is no reason for its adherents to retreat from its basic precepts. America is the same country it was before September 11. If you didn't like it then, there's no reason why you should have to pretend to now. All those who see its suffering as a kind of absolution should remember how little we've seen that would support this reading. A bully with a bloody nose is still a bully and, weeping apart, everything the US body politic has done in the week since the attacks has confirmed its essential character.

Given this, it is amazing that so many commentators should feel the need to stand shoulder to shoulder with a government that few used to support. Apparently, it is every American's duty to display their anti-terrorist credentials by refusing to criticise anything about its response to the crisis. For us British, the most pressing task is to reassure our friends across the pond that we don't support the demolition of their cities by ridding ourselves of any trace of anti-American sentiment. Apologising to the US ambassador for the "ill timed" Question Time in which one or two people suggested that America's slate was no cleaner than it had been the previous week, Greg Dyke shamed us all. The great thing about the media in this country is that they aren't often reduced to the univocal drone that expat friends complain of in the US. Those who have been there through this crisis have told me how much they miss Newsnight and how little respect they have for media that believe the whys and wherefores of this situation are somebody else's concern.

Like so many of the ideas America is going to war to defend, free speech is a nice thought that hasn't panned out in practice. The US may think of itself as a nation that nurtures debate but if that happens at all, it's only when there's nothing at stake. At this crucial moment in its history, it has eschewed the clamour of conflicting positions in favour of the voice it always returns to when its foundations are shaken. That voice is deeply dumb. Unable to engage with causality and contemptuous of attempts to do so, it explains what it sees in terms that bear no relation to reality.

When America speaks from its heart, it retreats into a language that none but its true-born citizens can begin to understand. At the root of this is an overwhelming need to control meaning. America can't let the world speak for itself. It was taken unawares last Tuesday and part of the trauma of that event was the shock of being forced to listen to a message that it hadn't had time to translate. The subsequent roar of anger was, amongst other things, the sound of the US struggling to regain the right to control its own narrative.

It did this by declaring war. By this means, Bush ensured that America only had to sit with the inexplicable for a couple of anxious days. After that, the sense, so unfamiliar to them, of not knowing what had happened or what it meant was replaced by the reassuring certainties of John Brown's body and calls for national unity. By turning what should have been a criminal manhunt into an all-out war, Bush was asserting his right to define America's reality. Instead of submitting to the reality, he created the situation he wanted, fashioning a plausible, beatable enemy that bore only a passing relation to the ragbag of loons in Bin Laden's camp. They weren't a worthy enemy of America, so rather than confront what this might mean, Bush has made one up. "International terrorism" has been talked up in the past week to the point where it almost looks like an ideology. Much as the US might want this to be the case, it isn't. Saying you're going to "eradicate" it is like pledging to defeat shooting.

Rather than run the risk of seeing what might happen if it listened to the rest of the world, America is going full square into a war that doesn't exist. It would rather have a virtual victory than submit to someone else's agenda. While understandable, this tendency is one of the reasons why some people still have issues with it.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS:
Andrew Sullivan's somments on this editorial:

A new low in hatred for America written by a woman called Charlotte Raven in the Guardian. I cite it not because it represents the people of Britain. Raven and her leftist, nihilist cohorts in London's chattering classes, have no real connection to the people of Britain. But they are sustained by the same decadent beliefs that sustain many of our own chattering elites. For Raven, America in these last few days has been what America has always been: "deeply dumb." For her, "Like so many of the ideas America is going to war to defend, free speech is a nice thought that hasn't panned out in practice." For her, delight at this horror is restricted to "three or four Palestinians." There is no war; and no real enemy. Bin Laden's network is just a handful of loons, and their cause, if not their method, is just: "If anti-Americanism has been seized, temporarily, by forces that have done dreadful things in its name, there is no reason for its adherents to retreat from its basic precepts. America is the same country it was before September 11. If you didn't like it then, there's no reason why you should have to pretend to now." That this was written in the wake of this hideous event shows how blind some people's hatred can be. I reprint it not because it is worth responding to. It is beneath response. But we might as well be aware of the enemy within the West itself - a paralyzing, pseudo-clever, morally nihilist fifth column that will surely ramp up its hatred in the days and months ahead.

1 posted on 09/18/2001 5:43:36 PM PDT by Pokey78
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To: Pokey78
Andrew Sullivan's somments on this editorial - someone who understands!

Great thread! and to everyone else........

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2 posted on 09/18/2001 5:45:36 PM PDT by 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember
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To: Pokey78
And a dead wimp is still a wimp.
3 posted on 09/18/2001 5:47:25 PM PDT by Paul Atreides
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To: Pokey78
after radical murdering islam, we're coming for nazis and communists next.
4 posted on 09/18/2001 5:49:55 PM PDT by Anonymous2
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Andrew Sullivan's somments = Andrew Sullivan's comments.
5 posted on 09/18/2001 5:52:01 PM PDT by Pokey78
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To: Pokey78
Sigh...another commentator blaming the victim instead of the criminal. Are these the same folks the blame the rape victim?
6 posted on 09/18/2001 5:52:57 PM PDT by TheDon
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To: Pokey78
</marquee up></marquee up></marquee up></marquee up> Sod this idiot.
7 posted on 09/18/2001 5:53:05 PM PDT by dighton
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To: Pokey78
Why is it that anyone that becomes successful is hated and despised by all his neighbors?
8 posted on 09/18/2001 6:00:35 PM PDT by Texaggie79
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To: all
Where did this eurotrash dickhead get the idea that it was palestinian terrorists who did this? The evidence points to other fanatics in other parts of the middle east. Unless this dickhead has unwittingly revealed intelligence about who the attackers really were. Would not surprise me.
9 posted on 09/18/2001 6:03:21 PM PDT by The Kitten
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To: Pokey78
"...a paralyzing, pseudo-clever, morally nihilist fifth column..."

Could Charlotte Raven be what Maureen Dowd and Molly Ivins wish to become?

10 posted on 09/18/2001 6:03:48 PM PDT by okie01
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To: Pokey78
Unfortunately, there are some Brits who feel this way. I have one on a listserver I'm on. She is beyond understanding us. And I return the favor, I do not understand this attitude that Raven is bleating about. This woman on the list honestly believes that the US brought this terrorist action upon ourselves by not ratifying the Kyoto treaty, by not forcing Israel and the Palestinians to get along, and a few other things. She has no basis in reality. She actually called our hanging the American flag and waving it "acts of drunken hooliganism."

I didn't call her on it, because the many American liberals jumped on her about her comments. Her response? "Oh, I didn't know that." Argh, this is a woman who says how intolerant we are as Americans and how we don't understand any other culture besides our own. Sorry to be so long.

11 posted on 09/18/2001 6:06:19 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Pokey78
When America speaks from its heart, it retreats into a language that none but its true-born citizens can begin to understand. At the root of this is an overwhelming need to control meaning.

And this is a criticism why? Of course you can't really understand the heart of a nation unless you're born to it. That's what makes nations unique. And "controlling meaning" is a perjorative term applied when others do what she does for a living.

America can't let the world speak for itself.

That wasn't the "world", that was Osama bin Laden.

It was taken unawares last Tuesday and part of the trauma of that event was the shock of being forced to listen to a message that it hadn't had time to translate. The subsequent roar of anger was, amongst other things, the sound of the US struggling to regain the right to control its own narrative.

I know that was my primary reaction. I got back from class, turned on the TV, and as I saw NY engulfed in smoke I thought, "Darn it! Someone sent an untranslated message! How dare they! I must regain my narrative!"

As is customary, I leave this closing thought: If it weren't for America, that tripe would be in German.

12 posted on 09/18/2001 6:08:35 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage
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I think it is safe to say that apart from three or four Palestinians, everyone is sad to see so many of their fellow humans killed in such horrendous circumstances.

Demonstrably false and the bitch knows it. All reports put that number of celebrating Palestinians closer to 1,400. And according to Canadian sources the Palestinians are holding an AP photographer hostage and have told the AP their photographer will die if that footage gets out.

13 posted on 09/18/2001 6:22:34 PM PDT by ICU812
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To: Pokey78
I am appalled at the article written by ms. Raven. I lived in the U.K. for 4.5 yrs. and my son was born in Oxford, however I feel it my duty to point out a few salient facts to Ms. Raven. Please remember that a significant portion of the developed countries in this world owe their very existence to the military strength and resolve and the generosity of the United States of America. Can you imagine your country if the USA had not entered WWII? All of Europe would be goose-stepping right now. And after freeing you from the tyranny of Adolf and his boys we poured hundreds of billions of dollars into your country to rebuild it. We have shed blood to defend your country, and the freedom that you have to utter your completely uninformed opinions. Most of Asia and the pacific rim nations have benefitted from USA'a generosity as well. All anyone has to do is ask and the American people for our help and we are there with money, food military help, or whatever is necesary. Please remember that in our 200+ year history we have never STARTED a war with another country. We have finished many but have never committed an act of agression by marching unbidden into another country with armed tropps and subjugated a people. We left that to your allies in spirit, the Soviets! We have been the worlds banker, benefactor, farmer, baker, philanthropist, and friend. , and we have asked nothing of the world in return. but Now I'd like to say that if you do not wish to give us the respect that we have so richly earned then perhaps you should do without our generosity and see how that lifestyle appeals to you. signed, Mark R. Acciard
14 posted on 09/18/2001 7:28:47 PM PDT by cristo40 (macciard@genlyte.com)
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To: Charlotte Raven
We should dump your commie a** off in Kabul, without a veil. ;-)
15 posted on 09/18/2001 8:05:04 PM PDT by an amused spectator
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