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New Zealand's support of the US
me | September 19, 2001 | Doug Loss

Posted on 09/19/2001 9:16:32 AM PDT by Doug Loss

A few days ago I posted an article from the New Zealand Press in which the NZ Prime Minister Helen Clark was quoted as saying NZ was withdrawing from the ANZUS pact and wouldn't support the US in its time of need. This engendered quite a response, mainly from outraged Americans.

However, I've also heard from Kiwis who said that the newspaper report wasn't accurate, the PM doesn't speak for them, and that the NZ people heartily support the US. Most of the Kiwis were polite in their messages :-), too.

Now that things have cooled down a bit I'd like to thank everyone from NZ who replied for their thoughts. We welcome your support, both moral and material. However, I hope you can soon put your house in order. Your PM is an international embarrassment to you.


TOPICS: Announcements; Foreign Affairs
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1 posted on 09/19/2001 9:16:32 AM PDT by Doug Loss
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To: FReepers

My dear brother and sister FReepers,

At this, of all times in my lifetime, I would like nothing more than to be able to read these threads and reply to them.  I have much I would like to say.

BUT, I cannot!

Why?

Because I am trying hard to raise the finances needed to keep FreeRepublic up and running so that we can continue to share valuable information and respond to it.

I beg you, if you have not yet donated to FreeRepublic this quarter,  do so now!

If you have already donated, THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND GOD BLESS YOU, please ping your friends, and FReep on...!

I realize you are giving to lots of Relief efforts and I encourage you to do so.  But we need to help FR too.  Where would we be right now without it?

If you have no money, please come and bump the Fundraiser Thread.

I would really like to reach our goal quickly so that I and the rest of the dedicated FReepers who are working the Fundraiser Threads can participate in what is undeniably the most important time in FreeRepublic's history.

WHERE WOULD YOU GET YOUR NEWS FROM IF FREEREPUBLIC WASN'T HERE?<--click here

Support FreeRepublic! Support the U.S.A. <--click here

2 posted on 09/19/2001 9:19:44 AM PDT by 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember
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To: Doug Loss
Sorry ... but BS. We've had to put up with this kind of crap from NZ before - refusing to let our ships dock, etc., etc.. If the people feel differently then they better focus on making sure they let their government know because, as their leaders are being told, roll is being taken and it's only going to be called once. They're either for us or against us. And we'll remember forever & ever and particularly when foreign aid time rolls around again.
3 posted on 09/19/2001 9:26:03 AM PDT by Steven W.
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To: Doug Loss
I think the correct pronunciation is Hulun Cluck. (antipodean humor).
4 posted on 09/19/2001 10:07:03 AM PDT by Big Bunyip
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To: Doug Loss
LOL. Well done Doug. I was amazed, New Zealand counter FReeped FR. Lots of good comments. Perhaps you should link to the original thread.
5 posted on 09/19/2001 10:16:00 AM PDT by ScreamingFist
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To: Doug Loss
The Kiwi's need reminding that if wasn't for America, they would be cleaning out toilts for the Japannese about now.
6 posted on 09/19/2001 10:35:46 AM PDT by oyez
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To: ScreamingFist
It appears that that thread has been taken down; at least, I can't find it anymore.
7 posted on 09/19/2001 10:36:48 AM PDT by Doug Loss
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To: Doug Loss
"It appears that that thread has been taken down" You're right. What a pity.
8 posted on 09/19/2001 11:01:37 AM PDT by ScreamingFist
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To: oyez
Excuse me? Cleaning toilets?

As I said before, those attacks have obviously narrowed some minds and turned some Americans into worse xenophobes.

9 posted on 09/19/2001 12:00:13 PM PDT by Free-minded New Zealander
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To: Free-minded New Zealander
We had great fun on a NZ thread the other nite.
10 posted on 09/19/2001 12:08:13 PM PDT by cajungirl
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To: Free-minded New Zealander
OK, then you would fought the Nipponese to the last man. By calulation, if the USA had stayed out of WW2, NZ would have fallen to the Japs by 1946.

Welcome aboard.

11 posted on 09/19/2001 2:18:05 PM PDT by oyez
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To: Free-minded New Zealander
I'm sorry.That should be; By my calulation, if the USA had stayed out of WW2, NZ would have fallen to the Japs by 1946.
12 posted on 09/19/2001 2:24:16 PM PDT by oyez
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To: Doug Loss
Guys Guys, Perhaps if the postings were correct then there would be an informed debate......May I correct matters? 1 ... NZ does support the US in it's Tragedy 2.... NZ has offered it's military in support ( our SAS are on stand-by for any requests from the US)and our military will respond to requests in general to the best of our ability 3.... As far as cleaning toilets for Japan, may I remind those learned correspondants that New Zealand was engaged in a war of survival along with the Commonwealth and European countries against terrorism some 2 plus years before the US was FORCED into it by an attack on it's forces 4.... The US has designated mainland China as a more favoured friend than NZ.....? a great move....a good ally to have...I see that you are even able to use their airfeilds to land your P-3's on. 5 ....Get the facts right and have some informed comment.And by the way....our Prime Minister may be an embarrasment in your eyes, but she does not have a prediliction for cigars and staffers. I write this as an ex serviceman who spent 20 years in the service of his country, who has spent time in the US working alongside your servicemen and in other countries, and who is ready to stand in defence of his country again when and if required. So don't bag the little guys...look to your own faults and fix them first.
13 posted on 09/19/2001 2:24:31 PM PDT by Dac
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To: Doug Loss
http://www.encyclopedia.com/articlesnew/31196.html

This states that back in 1985 we would not let nuclear ships in, so in 1986 you abolished your responsibilties to New Zealand under the ANZUS treaty.

You can boycott NZ products if you want but we were abolished from ANZUS and we are still willing to help, I can't see why we are being attacked for it.

14 posted on 09/19/2001 2:31:14 PM PDT by KiwiGirl
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To: Dac
The pattern over the past few days has been to take a BBC or CNN quote, either poorly translated or taken out of context, usually made by the Assisant Deputy Minister of Western Schleswig-Holstein, and use it to provoke a slew of my-d***-is-bigger-than-yours comments.

Usually, a correction (or the truth) is posted a day or two later, but funny, no one ever apologizes. Carville would be proud.

15 posted on 09/19/2001 2:48:17 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Doug Loss
Hi Doug, Your inaccurate reading of a N.Z. press release is offensive. As you know, our non participation in ANZUS is only due to not being included by the U.S. since 1986. Kiwi soldiers have fallen in Africa, WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam and more recently East Timor. We have all grieved for the loss in the U.S. and have offered intelligence and S.A.S. support. New Zealand Fireman are collecting for a fund for the New York Firemen. Public gatherings are being organised to show support for the New York victims. We are a most worthy ally.
16 posted on 09/19/2001 3:11:35 PM PDT by ziggy7 (Helen Clark was stating your position on ANZUS, not ours.)
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To: Steven W.
Excuse me Steven: "Foreign Aid" - who do you think your talking about. New Zealand is not a third world nation. We've backed the West all Century and are currently helping East Timor get back on its feet. Read my reply to Doug and you may understand that he totally got the article wrong. The main point being Helen Clark was not withdrawing from ANZUS, just stating that we haven't been included in it since 1986. If it ever came down to it, you'd be lucky to have a Kiwi by your side. And we will be.
17 posted on 09/19/2001 3:26:14 PM PDT by ziggy7
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To: All
I think that the biggest problem here is that (some) Americans are being too hasty to see where the rest of the world stands on this. Like a school boy who knows he is coming up against a good fight, looking to see see who he can count on. I know this is serious stuff, And to any Americans, NZ is with you. My GreatGrand father was in WW1 and my Grand father in WW2, both along side Americans. It's pretty much the same for any guy my Age. I have a mate who has never meet his grand father because of this. No one has even talked about where the U.S's intrests were in regards to WW2 BEFORE Pearl Harbour. Also, either whoever read this article or whoever wrote it got it way wrong, considering America has excluded NZ in ANZUS since '86. We're not honoring it?? Learn some facts before you start dogging one of your most avid allies for the past 90 years and please stop disrespecting the blood we spilled for world causes. NZ is here and ready, It's just a shame that Americans believe too much of what they read without investigating the facts.
18 posted on 09/19/2001 3:58:37 PM PDT by Aaryn_015
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To: Aaryn_015
As far as I am concerned, it was NZ who abrogated the treaty when they refuse U.S. Ships port.

A few years ago, I talked to a friend who had just got back from New Zealand. He told me about how beautiful the country was and that the people were friendly and intelligent. The only problem was he said he could barely stand the place because every person there was a flaming leftist.

I will say one thing. If all those girls on Hercules are really from NZ then it is primo girl country.

19 posted on 09/19/2001 4:09:54 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: Free-minded New Zealander
If it had not been for America there would have been no battle of the Coral Sea, The Japanese would have easily taken over Australia then New Zealand, that is unless the huge NZ Navy had won the battle of the Tasman Sea.

The Kiwi's did fight well in WW II.

20 posted on 09/19/2001 4:16:50 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: Doug Loss
According to the CIA World Factbook 2001 "ANZUS (US suspended security obligations to NZ on 11 August 1986)" That is what Ms. Clark was referring to. NZ has a great deal of its own problems right now, and does not have the resources that the US does. She did however state that NZ would support the US in any way it could. I am an American living in New Zealand, and I thought I would get the facts straight.
21 posted on 09/19/2001 4:20:29 PM PDT by mrbluesky
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To: KiwiGirl
New in town? Or just changing your name again...

KiwiGirl member since September 19th, 2001

22 posted on 09/19/2001 4:24:15 PM PDT by skraeling
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To: All
According to the CIA World Factbook 2001 "ANZUS (US suspended security obligations to NZ on 11 August 1986)" That is what Ms. Clark was referring to. NZ has a great deal of its own problems right now, and does not have the resources that the US does. She did however state that NZ would support the US in any way it could. I am an American living in New Zealand, and I thought I would get the facts straight.
23 posted on 09/19/2001 4:31:46 PM PDT by mrbluesky
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To: Free-minded New Zealander
You sure are busy changing your name.

Free-minded New Zealander member since September 19th, 2001

 

24 posted on 09/19/2001 4:31:57 PM PDT by skraeling
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To: ziggy7
And another one?????????

ziggy7 member since September 19th, 2001

25 posted on 09/19/2001 4:33:55 PM PDT by skraeling
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To: mrbluesky &amp; others
Thanks for that clear-up, mate, appreciate it. I'm just as patriotic about my country as any American is of his/her. No offense to anyone. Yarddog, you're right about the warship thing, but the thing is, and you probably won't really care, that the ships in question, were nucular powered or capable, and at this stage NZ was at it's height of anti-nucular policies. Surely Americans can't pass a judgement on Kiwis just for these events considering the sacrifices we have made for the world's trust!? I think that by the time this war has even kicked in fully, past ANZUS relations will be inconsiquential as America realises that NZ is with them just as they have been before. p.s Please do not make comments about international aid handouts(I can't remember who made this comment) as if America must be apeased to live a civilised life. Because it is offensive, and the US is NOT the hand the feeds the rest of the world.
26 posted on 09/19/2001 4:38:39 PM PDT by Aaryn_015
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To: Doug Loss
Good to see there is less rabid Kiwi-bashing (apart from one or two ignorant people). Thanks for your clarification. PK
27 posted on 09/19/2001 4:45:23 PM PDT by Kiwi and Proud
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To: Kiwi and Proud
LOL, I think we can let this thread die. Now just get rid of those idiots you have running the place before I can visit! We did it even though we endured 8 years of torture.
28 posted on 09/19/2001 4:49:52 PM PDT by Nuke'm Glowing
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To: Kiwi and Proud
There have been several threads about your stupid P.M. refusing to help and kind of waffling about to check the breeze before stating any support.

People are mad, rightly so.

29 posted on 09/19/2001 4:51:19 PM PDT by super175
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To: Free-minded New Zealander, KiwiGirl
bump #29
30 posted on 09/19/2001 4:52:47 PM PDT by super175
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To: yarddog
No U.S. ship was refused port. It was the U.S. navy that refused to disclose whether they are carrying nuclear arms by their neither confirm or deny policy. So the crux of the ANZUS disagreement was not about being a good ally but about the U.S. objection to New Zealand's nuclear-free policy. We in New Zealand are pretty proud of our nuclear-free status. And thereafetr New Zealand was not allowed to play with Big Brother. As for your friend and his comment that we are all leftist, it is very easy to put labels on people. Besides what is wrong with the left ? In any democracy you have left and right and middle and all sort ... that is what makes a democracy great.
31 posted on 09/19/2001 4:56:46 PM PDT by Kiwi and Proud
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To: super175
The threads started from a mis-informed article but people are so quick to condemn without checking the facts. We have already expressed our 100% support for the U.S. ... what more can we do for now ? Like all your other allies we are waiting for the next stage.
32 posted on 09/19/2001 5:02:26 PM PDT by Kiwi and Proud
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To: Kiwi and Proud
Living in NZ there are very few of us who do not have family members who fought (some of which lost their lives) in most of the major conflicts of last century, standing along side Americans, British, Australians and a multitude of other countries. The importance of this for NZers is evidenced by the rememberance of ANZAC day in our country. Being a young NZer myself and knowing what those before me sacrificed for the freedom we all experience when the call is made I will again stand alongside the rest of the world in this war regardless of what my Prime Minister says. By not doing so would be to deny the legacy left to us by those who fought for our future in wars past.
33 posted on 09/19/2001 5:06:43 PM PDT by NZ Citizen
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To: Kiwi and Proud
I guess it is a little bit like the chicken or the egg but I am sure the Americans had a policy of not telling if their ships were nuclear armed way before NZ began its policy and since they knew the American position, they also knew it would in effect bar all U.S. Navy ships.

I have a real problem with liberalism or socialism. The problem is they are inherently evil. Not to say all liberals are evil but they must either be evil or mistaken.

the nuclear free zone is more than a little selfish too, although foolishly so. The idea is that by not allowing nuclear weapons you will not be attacked by them yet will still enjoy the benefits of being protected by the U.S., tho you would claim that you do not want the protection.

As far as cleaning toilets for the Japanese, I doubt you would be alive to even do that if not for the American Navy.

One more thing.

The U.S. either does or has fed the World. I know NZ is not a third world nation and probably exports mutton but much of the world would have starved without U.S. help.

34 posted on 09/19/2001 5:11:33 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: NZ Citizen
Good on'ya!!!
35 posted on 09/19/2001 5:15:45 PM PDT by itwasntme
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: KiwiGirl, Shaggy eel
KiwiGirl, I have a good friend who lives in Wellington who is a member of your ACT party and I can sympathize with you on what is going on here. While I believe most of your countrymen do support the U.S. it is your PM Clark who is bringing on this anti-NZ sentiment from the folks here at FreeRepublic.

Unfortunately everyone here has strong feelings about the recent events but only a handful know the true facts about your political predicament (sp?). Specifically, that your country had so many different parties running for the last election that Clark won on only about 30% of the popular vote.(That % may not be quite accurate but the fact remains that Clark certainly did not have the majority of the country behind her).

Because your country had so many different political factions that could not come come to agreement on the important issues that truly affect your country, you are now saddled with a communist bitch who is willing to sell you out to the Chinese......

So I am pleading with all the FReepers here who are condemning New Zealand to please think out your comments about NZ before posting. To condemn the great folks from NZ who are part of our FR network is the same as outsiders condemning FReepers because of all the atrocities clinton committed.

There has not been one FReeping New Zealander here who has not shown solidarity with the United States and any criticism directed towards them as a result of their communist PM Clark is unfair......

39 posted on 09/19/2001 5:57:37 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco
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To: ziggy7
We are a most worthy ally.

Yes you are ziggy and I certainly appreciate your support. Unfortunately many folks here are not aware of the circumstances surrounding the election of your communist Clark and that is unfortunate. If it is any consolation to you, there are many folks here that do understand and certainly don't harbor any ill feelings against New Zealand. Thanks for your support!

40 posted on 09/19/2001 6:01:19 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco
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To: oyez
That's probably true,because at the time,our servicemen were too busy overseas protecting France and Italy and fighting in the Middle East. Just ask any old Frenchman or Italian about our contribution to their countries during WW2. They treat our nationals like gods!
41 posted on 09/19/2001 6:15:00 PM PDT by NZ747
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To: Kiwi and Proud
Guess this is your original name, as of yesterday. Do you have a license to be a ventriloquist?

Kiwi and Proud member since September 18th, 2001

42 posted on 09/19/2001 6:15:28 PM PDT by skraeling
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To: Aaryn_015
Either they are a lot on newbies here or some posters reproduce by mitosis.
43 posted on 09/19/2001 6:22:20 PM PDT by oyez
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To: Kiwi and Proud
Besides what is wrong with the left ?

While I have supported several other NZ'ers on this thread I can not support your above statement. One only has to look at your failing economy and the thousands of Kiwi's fleeing your country because of the policies of your leftists. Sorry, but leftists do not contribute to a democracy!

Instead, their actions bring a democracy to its knees and allow socialists/communists such as your PM Clark to assume power, destroy the infrastructure via the promise of government handouts/protection and then force the hard working producers of your country to pay for all your socialist handouts only to assure their re-election.

The leftists are the blood sucking leaches of society and need to be eradicated!

So tell me Mr. Leftist, why are the educated so eager to leave NZ and are doing so in droves????????

44 posted on 09/19/2001 6:22:46 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco
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To: NZ747
I think someone said the Churchill would defind North Africa to the last Australian. Those were some dicey times. The Allies were third and long about the time of Coral Sea and Guadalcanal.
45 posted on 09/19/2001 6:29:41 PM PDT by oyez
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To: oyez
One thing I recall from Churchill's 6 volume history of WW II is the real trouble he had from Australia's socialist prime minister. The Anzac troops were desperately needed in N Africa but the PM (his name may have been Hawk) told the British he was going to bring them home to protect Australia. I think they were able to keep them until after el Alamein.

I don't really know the history of Anzac troops but am surprised they were in France. My Father went over on D-Day plus 2. To this very day he likes the French, who he claims are much more like Americans than the English, who he grew to dislike.

He did like Montgomery tho.

46 posted on 09/19/2001 6:50:33 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: Doug Loss
Good! I can still watch Xena! ;)
47 posted on 09/19/2001 6:53:10 PM PDT by rintense
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To: yarddog
Correction.

I just got out my history of WW II and the Australian PM was named Curtin.

48 posted on 09/19/2001 6:54:31 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: yarddog
Yep, The French are really great when they are on their knees.
49 posted on 09/19/2001 7:09:13 PM PDT by oyez
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To: rintense
,,, back to posting Dubya's pictures Rintense. This is way out of your forte.
50 posted on 09/19/2001 7:11:15 PM PDT by shaggy eel
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