Posted on 09/19/2001 9:16:32 AM PDT by Doug Loss
A few days ago I posted an article from the New Zealand Press in which the NZ Prime Minister Helen Clark was quoted as saying NZ was withdrawing from the ANZUS pact and wouldn't support the US in its time of need. This engendered quite a response, mainly from outraged Americans.
However, I've also heard from Kiwis who said that the newspaper report wasn't accurate, the PM doesn't speak for them, and that the NZ people heartily support the US. Most of the Kiwis were polite in their messages :-), too.
Now that things have cooled down a bit I'd like to thank everyone from NZ who replied for their thoughts. We welcome your support, both moral and material. However, I hope you can soon put your house in order. Your PM is an international embarrassment to you.
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While I have supported several other NZ'ers on this thread I can not support your above statement. One only has to look at your failing economy and the thousands of Kiwi's fleeing your country because of the policies of your leftists. Sorry, but leftists do not contribute to a democracy!
Instead, their actions bring a democracy to its knees and allow socialists/communists such as your PM Clark to assume power, destroy the infrastructure via the promise of government handouts/protection and then force the hard working producers of your country to pay for all your socialist handouts only to assure their re-election.
The leftists are the blood sucking leaches of society and need to be eradicated!
So tell me Mr. Leftist, why are the educated so eager to leave NZ and are doing so in droves????????
I don't really know the history of Anzac troops but am surprised they were in France. My Father went over on D-Day plus 2. To this very day he likes the French, who he claims are much more like Americans than the English, who he grew to dislike.
He did like Montgomery tho.
I just got out my history of WW II and the Australian PM was named Curtin.
I have not particularly forgiven them for their refusal to allow porting of our war vessels, but let's not go back to WW2 to toss about cheap and inaccurate charges. They did their part. Right now, we need all the friends we can get in this effort. Let's not reject the Kiwis too quickly, when we are having to buy just about every country's support except possibly Great Britain. At this point, until we know exactly how our response is to materialize, I for one will take even just moral support if that's all NZ is prepared to offer right now.
I now realize that the radicals on this thread were right. It appears the Kiwi's are a bunch of leftist appeasers. At least a goodly portion are. We should not expect any real support from NZ because when it comes right down to it, they are not our friends.
This morning I donated $500 towards a fund that our firefighters have set up to assist their colleagues in NYC. This is a not unsubstantial amount to me as I am not rich, but it is an indication of my feelings and those of most of my countrymen, to the tragic events of the past week. So understandably, I am pretty p***** off at the amount of Kiwi bashing that I have seen on this site over the past couple of days citing us as a bunch of deserters.
The truth of the matter is, our Government has pledged our support, President Bush has expressed appreciation for that.
If needed,this would probably be in the form of Special Forces (NZ Special Air Service),the same group that was responsible for destroying the Scud missiles so that coalition forces could mount their air raids in the Gulf War without the threat of being blown away. Our conventional forces are busy with the East Timor situation; this wouldn't be a suitable operation for them anyway.
As for our leadership, we know we have a Government that is leading us down an isolationist path. I mean, an Air Force with no combat capability; this would be laughable if it were not so serious! Helen Clark had her aircraft barricaded by Australian protestors last week at Melbourne Airport. They prevented her from leaving for five hours. We're pretty mad at those Aussies; cos' they eventually let her go!
One thing that we have in common with the US, is that we don't go storming Parliament when we don't like what the Government is doing. This is part of living in a Democracy; our time comes around at the next elections. Hopefully we will still have people here to vote by then!
Well then, take your sh*tty little country and go to h*ll. While you are at it, quit exporting those lousy apples to the United States.
Frankly speaking, the game plan really doesn't hinge upon which way New Zealand goes. For goodness sake, you economy is probably no bigger than Oklahoma's (no offense to Oklahoma).
Finally, the WTC bombing wasn't caused by anyone in the United States, it was caused by a bunch of nasty men in the Middle East. Your rhetoric sounds like classic "blame the victim" talk (she was raped because she was asking for it).
If they are glutons for punishment, we can handle that, too.
In case anyone is still confused, New Zealand, a small nation of approximately 4 million people, without major military sea or airlift capability, currently stretching its military resources to the limit to deploy in East Timor (with the full support of the US, who felt obliged and would have been tied up in this role, had the Australians and New Zealand not offered) has pledged it's full support for the US.
We are not a large nation, and nothing can alter that fact - but the concept of a small nation seems too much of a stretch for some people - how many American cities of 4 million are expected to maintain their own welfare, health funding, armed forces, police fisheries, provide support to the UN, manage the environment or care for parks the size of several large cities and guard one of the largest coastlines in the world? We simply don't have the resources to deploy large numbers overseas, and the most we can realistically offer is intelligence support, light logistics and special forces. That is full support.
Why this spurns talk of ANZUS is strange - when New Zealand became anti-nuclear, the Russians began to try to court us - to turn us into one of their allies - we politely told them where they could stick that idea, and our support remained with the US. Our reason for rejecting nuclear ship visits is unarguable - the Russians would not let American ships use New Zealand as a safe haven in a nuclear war - we became a target. In such a large country as America you can be forgiven for saying 'so what - couldn't you take human losses like the rest of us?' - it's nothing like that at all - the Russians had our major centres targeted - these weapons radius of death was huge, covering our nation from cost to cost.
In global nuclear war, we would have lost everything.
No country has the right to ask another to be obliterated, just so they can have one more insignificant port of call.
As for some peoples comments about the Japanese threat, I don’t mind feeling gratitude towards the US, but I don’t like getting the impression you are giving that America was the selfless, heroic saviour of New Zealand, since America considered our nation just an option of advance towards the Japanese mainland, and as far as the battles of the Pacific go, would have taken any opportunity to defeat a major Japanese naval concentration.
If there is something you read time and time again about New Zealand’s involvement in the Second World War, it's the surprise of the Axis soldiers that someone could come from the other side of the world, to fight in someone else's war. That feeling is alive today - many of us would love to be there fighting the good fight - but it is not possible. But that is just the way New Zealanders are - in wwII we didn't like Hitler much from the start, and we felt people deserved a fair go. We offered our support then as we do now - as quickly as we could. Which is why we've felt so riled by some of these posts, some which are lies, and an insult to our national spirit. It's a fact that New Zealand gave more of itself during the Second World War than any other allied nation aside from Russia. Our soldiers were constantly thrown into the breach on Crete, in North Africa, and beside American troops in Italy, and our losses were greatly disproportionate to our size. We are all grateful to Americans who lost their lives in the Second World War - but we have no debt to you, just as no nation has a debt to us for our losses and sacrifice.
I seriously suggest some of you adjust your attitude from one of misplaced anger, and big-headedness, to one of mutual gratitude. At the end of the day, we are Allies.
As for all this talk of lefties and communism, you’ve got it all wrong – New Zealand government is usually made up of either a centre right, or a centre left party – centre is the operative word - the difference between the two is pretty small. Right, and the economy does alright but welfare suffers, so people seek a change and vote left, and we get a bit of a breather, then we need a bit of a change and vote back the other way. It means nothing.
I can’t get over how some people STILL don’t realise that that ONE article from yesterday does not represent the opinion of the PM – she is for supporting the US, as validated by the US President himself.
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