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What I expect from American Muslims
Vanity | 9/19/01 | Antoninus

Posted on 09/19/2001 8:34:09 PM PDT by Antoninus

An insidious, monstrous criminal atrocity has been committed against our country. There's now little doubt that this barbaric act was committed by fanatical Muslims as part of a jihad against the 'Great Satan' America. In the aftermath, we are treated to platitudinous and largely unnecessary calls for Americans to exercise 'restraint' and not take out our anger against other Americans who happen to be of the same religious extraction as the maniacs who perpetrated this act. These calls for restraint could be made unnecessary if American Muslims would simply do the following...

Convene a very public, nationally televised 'town hall' meeting of Muslim clerics and high-ranking officials with in their communities around the country. Within this public forum, allow presenter after presenter to state unequivocably that they:

1. Decry the dastardly attack on the World Trade Centers in no uncertain terms.

2. Declare to be false and pernicious the notion that a murderous, suicidal death leads one's soul to heaven. State in no uncertain terms that this teaching is contrary to true Islam.

3. Renounce the use of terroist violence to achieve political ends, and call for ALL foreign governments to do the same.

4. State publicly that they support the right of the United States to wage war against those nations and groups which harbor and abet terrorism whether they be Muslim or otherwise.

5. Put forth a dire warning to the terrorist cells that may be in their midst that Muslim-Americans will not think twice about turning these perfidious scoundrels over to the US government.

6. Mention that any public celebration of these attacks by Muslim-Americans is a deplorable act which harms not only the Muslim community, but America as a whole.

What I don't want to hear in relation to this is one single word about:

1. How this would never have happened if the US didn't support Israel.

2. How our 'imperialist' oppression of Arab nations brought on this attack.

3. Any kind of justification for terrorist barbarism.

Individual statements along these lines have surfaced here and there, but until the Muslim community as a whole does this in a very public fashion, I will have to view them with some suspicion. The mere fact that we haven't seen more of these kinds of statements indicates to me (and I hope I'm wrong on this) that there is decent amount of clandestine approval of the attack within the Muslim-American community...


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Heck, if it were some extremist Catholic group that did this, we might expect to see every single priest, nun, bishop and the Pope too begging the world for forgiveness. A little more condemnation and consternation from the Muslim community would go a long way at this point.
1 posted on 09/19/2001 8:34:09 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Antoninus
BEST POST I've seen this week...BUMP!
2 posted on 09/19/2001 8:40:28 PM PDT by NewLand
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To: Antoninus
I must say, it would be welcomed - especially if it is not combined in any way with the last 3 items you list.

I'm not convinced, however, that the Muslim community can agree on #2 in your first set of 6. While there is scripture to suggest that Mohammedism would rule out suicide, others of their scriptures suggest that anything necessary to rid the world of infidel dogs is acceptable.

3 posted on 09/19/2001 8:42:17 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Antoninus
Wouldn't it be simpler to make them sign loyalty oaths?
4 posted on 09/19/2001 8:43:15 PM PDT by NovemberCharlie
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To: Antoninus
Another suggestion-- raise your own regiment like the Japanese-Americans did in 1942 to fight for your country. This was the most decorated regiment in World War II and performed with distinction in Italy. The 142nd's bravery and patriotism led to an early closing of the notorious relocation camps which, themselves, were engineered by a LIBERAL coalition of FDR and Earl Warren, then California's attorney general.
5 posted on 09/19/2001 8:45:30 PM PDT by Vigilanteman
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To: Antoninus
Bumping this! But really you wouldn't think they'd have to be told to do this. I'm not sure all that many were opposed to the would-be outcome.
6 posted on 09/19/2001 8:46:15 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: Antoninus
Don't hold your breath.
7 posted on 09/19/2001 8:47:19 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: Antoninus
BINGO!!

I am an observant Catholic, and I therefore oppose abortion. But when an abortion doctor is shot, do you think I would get positive media attention if I made statements like "this wouldn't happen if he didn't perform abortions?"

It's nut-cutting time at the Mosque. Decent Moslems better step forward right now and stand with the USA to kill every last terror organization and terror-sponsoring state, and not hide behind the Islamic brotherhood. It may not be fair, but that's the way it is.

8 posted on 09/19/2001 8:48:15 PM PDT by SEA
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To: NovemberCharlie
Wouldn't it be simpler to make them sign loyalty oaths?

Nope. I'm more interested in the PUBLIC nature of such an event. No oaths are involved. They should just be speaking from the heart that which they truly feel (at least what we are told they feel by the media...)
9 posted on 09/19/2001 8:48:41 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Antoninus
Here, here, Antoninus. I've heard enough of this "we're victims" crap. Time to prove that they are indeed Americans, in which case we will embrace them and protect them as brothers - otherwise expect our wrath.
10 posted on 09/19/2001 8:48:46 PM PDT by bootyist-monk
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To: Vigilanteman
Another suggestion-- raise your own regiment like the Japanese-Americans did in 1942 to fight for your country.

I think that's a fantastic idea. It could be #7, no doubt.
11 posted on 09/19/2001 8:49:39 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Antoninus
I have yet to hear a single Muslim unequivocally denounce the WTC attack. Not one. They always will say "yet it is bad, but Israel..." "Yes, but America..." It is always "yes, but..."
12 posted on 09/19/2001 8:52:37 PM PDT by ambrose
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To: Antoninus
Excellent idea. I've been saying, since the 11th, that a very public renunciation of the specific horrors as well as a general show of support for US interests would do a great deal. I, too, think the calls for restraint are, so far, unnecessary.
13 posted on 09/19/2001 8:54:05 PM PDT by bluebeowulf
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To: Antoninus
I supervise a Muslim Pakistani at work who would eagerly sign up for this...

He, and my Korean born wife, are probably far more cognizant of the freedoms afforded by this country than the vast majority of native born, "Americans." (sometimesthetruthhurts...)

14 posted on 09/19/2001 8:54:27 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: Antoninus
Quite right! Here in Ohio the most vocal supporters of Islam have been Christians. I've heard plenty of ministers explaining that the terrorists do not represent the Islamic faith, but I haven't heard too many Muslims say it. I haven't heard ANY of their leaders say it.

I have heard them express their concerns about the potential for violence being directed at THEM. I haven't heard them express any concern re future attacks against non Muslims.

I'm beginning to think that this notion that the terrorists don't represent the mainstream of Islam is false...

16 posted on 09/19/2001 8:58:29 PM PDT by Skip Ripley
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To: Antoninus
Bump! What really gets me are all the lies circulating about the Koran, that it's a loving book, something akin to the New Testament,knowing full well that most non-muslims won't take the time to check it out for themselves.
17 posted on 09/19/2001 8:59:10 PM PDT by goodieD
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: SEA
I am an observant Catholic, and I therefore oppose abortion. But when an abortion doctor is shot, do you think I would get positive media attention if I made statements like "this wouldn't happen if he didn't perform abortions?"

A brilliant point. Similar equivocation from muslims and the far left should be similarly intolerable!
19 posted on 09/19/2001 9:01:52 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Malachi
Then immediately free the great hero Jonathan Pollard as a demonstration of America's solidarity with the greatest ally in all of recorded history. Provide all and complete intelligence gathered without restriction by our FBI, CIA, NSA, et al to the Mossad. Allow all Mossad agents to operate freely in the U.S. without any restrictions whatsoever. If they need to selectively target troublemakers in America it is to be permitted.

This tragedy has brought a number of Jew-haters out into the open.

20 posted on 09/19/2001 9:05:51 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Antoninus
Your vision can't be appreciated more, but... it's based totally upon Christian values and notions. Don't forget, that in Muslims' mind the world is divided in two parts: one is "The land of Islam", another "the land of War", or of infidels. The state of war with the infidels thus is constant, and so a Muslim doesn't owe his enemy either fair play, or sincerity, or anything. And they'll be ready to sacrifise not only themselves, but their own too, for the final victory over the Satan dogs. Look on Palies' children pushed with the stones against rifles. And do you think the murderers of 5 thousand people in WTC and the Pentagon didn't guess that a lot of Muslims would be among their victims? You can have all the public statements of loyalty, or written and signed oaths... so what? Expect to be stabbed in the back allright.
21 posted on 09/19/2001 9:06:54 PM PDT by Neophyte
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To: Antoninus
I like your post. My wife and I had a very similar conversation this evening. I agree that some public comments would go a long way. As you know, the FBI has a doctor in custody who may be deeply involved in the plot. A doctor, someone's coworker and neighbor, a person entrusted with health and well being of many people.

The terrorists used the "Melting Pot" to attack our nation. Obviously there are those here in pursuit of dreams, but if they don't speak up, how can we know who they are?
22 posted on 09/19/2001 9:09:12 PM PDT by Sooner
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To: Antoninus
You seem to have a nice grasp on our situation here in the US of A. Of course, we will take it one step at a time and eventually own that country. But then who knows what the Muslims will do, they are SNEAKY(not).

I think they are all little scared mice. Who need a better home with a higher standard of living. Personally I can find better things to do with my time besides managing a Quickey Mart.

Let them say they are sorry, imprison the leader, take the country, everyones happy =)

Eventually things will pass from generations mind and everyone will strive agian for unity. UNITY is key!

23 posted on 09/19/2001 9:11:51 PM PDT by Fleck78
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To: Antoninus
Great post. I would add, that they should root out the terrorists in their own communities!
24 posted on 09/19/2001 9:13:15 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: Neophyte
You can have all the public statements of loyalty, or written and signed oaths... so what? Expect to be stabbed in the back allright.

All I can say to this is you mistake the strategy of the public statement...
25 posted on 09/19/2001 9:13:39 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: TheLion
See point #5 in the original post...
26 posted on 09/19/2001 9:14:26 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Sooner
Let's be clear: we Americans will annihilate the terrorist Islamism cells and likely kill a lot of innocents in the doing, such is the nature of war, but we must stop this radical faction of Islam now or our Republic will be no more; if the Islamic leadership doesn't stop the extremists and root out this satanic cancer in Islam, we will do it. That should have been enough incentive for these leaders of Islam to get to work, but it doesn't appear so, because they hate Israel also and so much they will accept the killing of innocent individuals. That worries my heart greatly, but it will not remove my resolve to annihilate this extremist sect of Islam in a war against it. The leaders of Islam have been warned. They can stop these fanatics, unless they agree with them!
27 posted on 09/19/2001 9:19:10 PM PDT by MHGinTN
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: Fleck78
I think they are all little scared mice.

I do wonder if they may be hesitant as to how far they stick their neck out... thinking that one of bin Laden's folks might come knocking on their door right here in the good ole USA to make them an offer they can't refuse.

29 posted on 09/19/2001 9:25:35 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Malachi
Allow all Mossad agents to operate freely in the U.S. without any restrictions whatsoever. If they need to selectively target troublemakers in America it is to be permitted.

I don't know that I'd agree with all you wrote, but I'm beginning to wonder now if we hadn't made so sure Israel couldn't spy in the US if thousands of Americans might still be alive. Our own government wasn't in there protecting us from these bloody killers, it would have been nice if someone was. Not spying on US citizens but on the foreigners we let in who plan to destroy us.

30 posted on 09/19/2001 9:25:48 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: boston_liberty
Because the calls are ineffective at stoping some attacks anyways?

No, because the 'attacks' are few and far-between. Most of the ones reported that I've heard included nothing more than verbal confrontations. In my opinion, the restraint has been little short of amazing considering the events.
31 posted on 09/19/2001 9:25:53 PM PDT by Antoninus
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BTTT
32 posted on 09/19/2001 9:28:54 PM PDT by Blade
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: Skip Ripley
"I'm beginning to think that this notion that the terrorists don't represent the mainstream of Islam is false... "

You are absolutely right. As a group, they are the most self-centered, their way or no way people I've ever encountered. Every time I, as a woman, have had to deal with them in their capacity as convenience store clerks - we're talking 20-30 times at least, they have all but spat on me. Slamming the change down on the counter and so on. All of my female friends and co-workers are treated the same way. When we complain about this, our husbands and boyfriends all say things like, "Oh, I don't think they're so bad." Of course not - when they deal with a man. The point is, they have no intention of assimilating - just using this country as a giant ATM machine.

One more time - we are infidels and so not quite human - their writings that forbid murder or mistreatment refer to the murder of each other. Don't believe the Disney version they hand out for the tourists. Why do you think they cause so much trouble everywhere they go? They clash with all other religions and cultures.

34 posted on 09/19/2001 9:31:03 PM PDT by Let's Roll
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To: Antoninus
American Muslims don't need your patronizing advice.
I mean, listen to yourselves. "Loyalty oaths"?
yeeeesh.
35 posted on 09/19/2001 9:31:20 PM PDT by KenPhil
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To: Antoninus
Congressman David Dryer just said on Fox News that there would be no halt to immigration that we would lose our place as a world leader.

The plan is to do a check before allowing them into the country and if anyone is shady they will be tracked by human intelligence, in other words spied on. It was pointed out that once they enter the country they have the same rights as every other citizen not to be spied on, Congressman Dryer's answer was, "well that will have to be changed". Changed to what? All citizens being spied on so as to be sensitive to new arrivals, and not discriminate against them?

The unfortunate thing is that the F.B.I. have so far picked up a black muslim terrorist, and two from S. America, we don't even know who we are looking at anymore. There are also members of radical Islam in Indonesia and the Spice Islands.

Obviously, if people do not address this with their congressmen, in very strong and no uncertain terms, then we will face continued terrorism. I would suggest making this a huge issue in 2002, and remove David Dryer and those of his mindset from office.

David Dryer brought out the old saw about how we are a nation of immigrants. Well pal, I am not an immigrant, no one in my family has been an immigrant since my g-grandfather lost two sons in the American Revolution where they fought for MY future. And I feel an obligation to their shed blood not to allow MY future and that of my heirs to be played fast and loose with.

36 posted on 09/19/2001 9:31:30 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: Antoninus
Most of the ones reported that I've heard included nothing more than verbal confrontations.

You're right, the other night on NPR an Arab woman called in gloating how we deserved what we got for being on Israel's side and then she went on to whine about her friends now felt like they were being watched and they thought people were looking at them funny now. And since this one made it a point to call NPR and complain about such insignicant events, it leads me to believe real harassment is very few and far between.

37 posted on 09/19/2001 9:33:15 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: MHGinTN
I agree whole heartedly.
38 posted on 09/19/2001 9:33:17 PM PDT by Sooner
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To: ambrose
You just haven't been listening.
39 posted on 09/19/2001 9:34:26 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic
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To: NovemberCharlie
Wouldn't it be easier just to send the non-citizens home? Are they really necessary for our society to function?
40 posted on 09/19/2001 9:34:30 PM PDT by Ol'Grey Head
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To: KenPhil
"Loyalty oaths"?

I think people are sick and tired of their flag burning on campus and their hate speeches against the US. If they intend to stay in the US ---since they were not born here, YES they should take loyalty oaths.

41 posted on 09/19/2001 9:35:22 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: KenPhil
American Muslims don't need your patronizing advice.

Not patronizing at all. I would like some assurances that the Muslim community is aware of the problem and is taking steps to resolve it. It would go a long way towards defusing the mistrust. The longer they remain silent - or worse say we deserved it - the uglier this will get.
42 posted on 09/19/2001 9:39:25 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: FITZ
Yep, and you can bet that is the general feeling amoung most of the American-Muslim. But unfortuatly thats their people and they must stick with thier people! UNITY
43 posted on 09/19/2001 9:39:38 PM PDT by Fleck78
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To: Antoninus
Odd. Every day for a week I've seen various American Muslims in newspapers and on TV decrying
the attack, damning suicide bombers and explaining that Islam is not what the Taliban
and the jihadists say it is.

Would signed loyalty oaths and a blood sample be sufficient, Mr. McCarthy?

44 posted on 09/19/2001 9:40:47 PM PDT by Storm Orphan
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To: Antoninus
There have already been a couple press conferences along these lines in the last couple of days. If the one I saw last night on C-Span2 was any indication, I think you are going to be sorely disappointed.

After the 7 or 8 speakers had finished their spiels, there was a Q&A session with the media. After a few questions, it became apparent that the media wasn't too impressed with the various condemnations of this attack put forth by the speakers. A question came up regarding a comparison of the beliefs of extremist Muslims vs. non-extremist, which caused one of the speakers to grab the microphone and forcefully condemn the actions of the terrorists minus any "buts...". Clearly, that one speaker realized that they hadn't done a very good job of distancing themselves from this attack, but I'm not sure the rest of the Muslims had a clue.

45 posted on 09/19/2001 9:40:52 PM PDT by Major Matt Mason
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To: Antoninus
Haven't heard much "Osama bin Laden is a criminal and a murderer and deserves to be killed," from the Muslim-Arab community, but they sure have been getting busy holding press conferences about stopping hate crimes against Arabs. I think they're blowing a few scattered incidents out of proportion in order to avoid addressing the issue of how they really feel about Osama and the gang.
46 posted on 09/19/2001 9:41:57 PM PDT by Cinnamon Girl
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To: Ol'Grey Head
If they're security risks, sure, send them home. But Antonius gave the impression he expected this from Muslim citizens as well.
47 posted on 09/19/2001 9:44:08 PM PDT by NovemberCharlie
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To: Roscoe
Then immediately free the great hero Jonathan Pollard as a demonstration of America's solidarity with the greatest ally in all of recorded history. Provide all and complete intelligence gathered without restriction by our FBI, CIA, NSA, et al to the Mossad. Allow all Mossad agents to operate freely in the U.S. without any restrictions whatsoever. If they need to selectively target troublemakers in America it is to be permitted.

This tragedy has brought a number of Jew-haters out into the open.

Pollard is a traitorous criminal who first tried to sell our secrets to the highest bidder. He is a criminal who should never see the light of day except from behind bars. I don't hate Jews, but I sure as hell hate traitors. As for Mossad operating freely in our country, that is absolute madness. They are not US citizens and they have no allegiance to our constitution. Maybe this was a parody post and I just missed something.

48 posted on 09/19/2001 9:47:15 PM PDT by AlaskaErik
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: Storm Orphan
Would signed loyalty oaths and a blood sample be sufficient, Mr. McCarthy?

Actually, an official public rally like I described above would be sufficient. No loyalty oaths, no blood samples. And for the record, as we now know Joe McCarthy, buffoon that he was, was more right than wrong. Or are you one of the six people left who still believe that Soviet money wasn't funding American communism?
50 posted on 09/19/2001 9:51:13 PM PDT by Antoninus
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