What I expect from American Muslims

Vanity | 9/19/01 | Antoninus

[Diamond]

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate your very perceptive analysis, particularly with regard to intelligence implication of the doctrine:

Another result is that every government in the Middle East is riddled with crypto-shi'ah, posing for generations as sunnis, according to a brother who is from that region and well-travelled. That means that not only the Israeli intelligence that the United States receives, but also the intelligence that the United States receives from every government over there has to be checked over with extreme care before it goes into analyses presented to our decision-makers. But it isn't always handled that way.

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The doctrine, as presented by the shi'ah, is a distortion, not a Qur'anic injunction in the slightest.

You are more of a doctrinal expert on this subject than I am. Could you please explain the following references from the Quran and authoritative commentary:

Reference 1:
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"Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti in his book, "al-Durr al-Manthoor Fi al-Tafsir al- Ma'athoor," narrates Ibn Abbas', the MOST renowned and trusted narrator of tradition in the sight of the Sunnis, opinion regarding al-Taqiyya in the Quranic verse: "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, (they) shall have no relation left with Allah except by way of precaution ("tat-taqooh"), that ye may guard yourselves ("tooqatan") from them....[3:28]"

that Ibn Abbas said:

"al-Taqiyya is with the tongue only; he who has been COERCED into saying that which angers Allah (SWT), and his heart is comfortable (i.e., his TRUE faith has NOT been shaken.), then (saying that which he has been coerced to say) will NOT harm him (at all); (because) al- Taqiyya is with the tongue only, (NOT the heart)."

NOTE: The two words "tat-taqooh" and "tooqatan," as mentioned in the Arabic Quran, are BOTH from the same root of "al-Taqiyya."

NOTE ALSO: The "heart" as referred to above and in later occurrences refers to the center of faith in an individual's existence. It is mentioned many times in the Quran."

Reference 2:
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"Ibn Abbas also commented on the above verse, as narrated in Sunan al- Bayhaqi and Mustadrak al-Hakim, by saying:

"al-Taqiyya is the uttering of the tongue, while the heart is comfortable with faith."

NOTE: The meaning is that the tongue is permitted to utter anything in a time of need, as long as the heart is not affected; and one is still comfortable with faith."

(permission to utter "anything" in "a time of need" looks to me at least like a loophole big enough to drive a truck through)

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Now let's discuss Paul's exhortations that lying is an acceptable way to spread Christianity. Or do you plan to deny those, as well? And should you admit them, since they're so plainly and indelibly in the New Testament, then when you say that you don't follow them, or that they apply to spreading the Gospel and not to the political colonialization that has always accompanied that spread, should we believe you?

That is the first time in my entire life that I have heard of "Paul's exhortations that lying is an acceptable way to spread Christianity". References, please?

(Btw, I hope you include America herself in your true phrase "the political colonialization that has always accompanied that spread":^)

Cordially,

[Antoninus]

Now let's discuss Paul's exhortations that lying is an acceptable way to spread Christianity. Or do you plan to deny those, as well?

Pardon me? I think you'll have to cite a chapter and verse before anyone on here will take you seriously on this.

[SeaDragon]

Allow all Mossad agents to operate freely in the U.S. without any restrictions whatsoever. If they need to selectively target troublemakers in America it is to be permitted.

This could be good or it could be bad. The only thing I know for certainty is that the Mossad has the balls to do it. Unlike our p***y whipped secret (ha ha) services.

[Countyline]

"In America there is only room for 2 kinds of people...American citizens, and those waiting to be American citizens. Everyone else is either a trespasser, a visitor, or a terrorist."

... for emphasis ...

America ... love it or leave it.

[NMC EXP]

Acording to your logic I am a hyphenated German-American.... Naturalized as a citizen 34 years ago.... Grew up in NJ and NYC at a time in the Fifties when that part of the world was noted for being a proud "Melting Pot" ... I regard myself then and now as a proud American - period.

Please go back and re-read my post. Believe me you and I are on the same page. I also despise the hyphenated labels. My last name is probably Scottish in origin. Call me a Scot-American, or European-American, and we will have a problem.

I have no idea when the first of my ancestors arrived here, but there was some whispered talk that one of my grandmothers had a little Cherokee in her. You want to call me something, call me an American. If you must further subdivide, call me a caucasian (that is scientifically accurate)....just don't call me late for dinner :-).

Regards

J.R.

[vome]

Dear ladies and gentleman, FYI we have an activist in here with nothing better to do than argue all day long. Having been asked to shut up about spreading propoganda about his religion and politics on news.grc.com, he proceeds to come here and spread more propoganda. Unemployed and scrounging off state welfare while exercising his freedom of speech which also covers telling lies and twisting anything people post and deliberately quoting out of context. You should be aware that (ankaboot) aka (Abujamal) aka (Sheikh Dawud Ahmad Al-Amriki) is well known across many newsgroups as a TROLL. A visit to grc.news.feedback and grc.ten-forward a week or so back will give you an indication of what this guy is all about. He loves nothing better than to expose peoples names and addresses if they disagree with him or his activist minions. He will argue forever about nothing just for arguements sake and he is best off completely ignored as he always has to have the last word. Ignoring him completely like so many others do upsets him all the more and he goes away with his tail between his legs to spread FUD elsewhere. You will also find his propoganda on muslim groups on deja. A visit to his website at http://www.muslimamerica.net will give you an idea that this guy is a troublemaker first class. He uses 3 different email addresses that are well known muslims@earthlink.net abujamal@pchelpers.org and muslims@muslimamerica.net. Sheikh Dawud Ahmad Al-Amriki, Muslim America, P.O. Box 231, Springdale, WA, 99173-0231, tel. (509) 258-9031, fax 1 (800) Muslims. Springdale, WA USA Here are some other useful details about this TROLL that is trying to hide his identity under this new alias. Beware like all TROLLS he has many aliases but he is easy to spot from his email addresses and the propoganda he spreads. He claims the only hope for America is Islam and that if you insult him that you should be careful his more militant brothers do not get to hear of it from him. Do a little research on him with the above search criteria and you will turn up alsorts of fundamentalist and radical activist crap, screaming for jihad and many more of his cut and paste ramblings posted to enflame and poke a reaction. Hey Abujamal, Give it up TROLL the game is up. We know what you are. We know what you stand for and we know what you are up to. *vome*

[zerosix]

I'd just settle for having my neighbor hoist an American flag or if that's too inconvenient, try not running down the neighborhood children whenever he drives down the street (he did that before September 11!)

[Last]

Imagine the way you will feel if the FBI declares that it was not Muslims who were behind the attacks. Imagine how all you guys in this thread would feel. I know that Muslims are not behind it, so you can imagine how I feel towards you, and all the current argument means utter nothing to me.

I am a Muslim American, and you guys want me to stand entirely with the government to kill innocent Muslims, with my knowing that Muslims are no where behind the attacks? Never. I thank God I'm not as brainwashed as you are. I don't care about what you like to believe, but if you put yourselves in my shoes, perhaps you would look at things with a more critical eye. No evidence revealed is yet enough for me to stand against my fellow innocent Muslims in Afghanistan. Our objectiveness as an American nation brought us to an advanced position among the nations of the world, and I'm just practicing that objectiveness. You are destroying it, and you're taking us all down with you.

*I* spent the day of the attacks not being able to get my head together. *I* spent sleepless nights afterwards, not because of fear, not because of the discrimination against me that was to come, but because I was terrified. I could as well have been there in Manhattan. The next attack could very much kill me. You are making the real killers feel so good when they read your posts. That terrifies me more. But whatever I say or do cannot bring you out of your brain shower. I'm not supposed to follow what you say and think that *you* are the one who gives me freedom. I'm as free here as I can be anywhere. *I* am the one who determines when and what to say or do, not you, not the government, and not Rednecks.

Bush said that we are a great contribution to the society. We damn sure are. I am a dentist, working at a hospital. My brother is a pediatrician, treating all colors of babies, and my other brother is a chemical engineer, designing towers for industrial plants in this country. If we leave, you're the only losers because I will still be a dentist, and you will lose me to another country.

Moreover, you want Muslims to denounce Usama Bin Laden personally. When I hear him say THREE TIMES that he did not have anything to do with the attacks, I believe him, just like you should. Think about it. This single fact is more than enough for me to exclude him as a perpetrator or a mastermind. I will not explain how, because I need not to. And even if you heard my explanation, you will go on with your racism because you just can't leave the mainstream of fish is the brainwashing river.

And since your majesty ordered me "not to" say the things you were "sick of hearing", I want NO hate replies to this post. I've had my share already.

Abdul Hameed

[rbmillerjr]

Yeah I believe BIn Baden too...and so does our Pres. and our military......

Boom. His fate is sealed. Die or live like the stinking dog that he is.

[Darlin']

Last, On 2 October, the day you registered on Free Republic, you say you are an American Muslim. Further you say that you and your family contribute to American society. Then you say, "...I want NO hate replies to this post. I've had my share already."

How could you have had your share already on 2 October ? You only made 2 post yesterday. Today, on another thread you said that you're a Palestian. Did you forget that you had posted on this thread that you're an American ? If you are a naturalized American citizen you took an oath to disavow any allegiance to your former homeland. If you are an American born citizen then how can you be a Palestian ?

[Letitring]

Ok. You doubt OUR President Bush, you doubt OUR Sec. of State, Colin Powell, you doubt the UN, you doubt NATO, but yet you BELIEVE Bin Laden because he said something THREE times? Gimme a break. If that is what it takes for you, then here goes. Bin Laden did it, did it, did it. That makes THREE times. I'm sorry. Your argument makes NO sense. I still want to know, who do you think DID do it?

[Talcminer]

Hey Last, Bill Clinton said that "I did not have sex with that women" at least three times, and he had a whole cadre of people to back him up. What's my point talk is cheap, and you have to go by what a person's actions are. If you look at Usama, he always has an AK47 in his hand, he is trained to use it, and he has trained others to use it for the purpose of killing. He IS a terrorist, and promotes terrorist ideology. He was in fact linked to the first WTC bombings, and the money trail is leading to him now. Get it, this is the equivalent of the blue dress. Usama should quit acting like a democrat, and take responsibility for what he has sown. The guy needs to be brought to justice for his past deeds.

[HeartOfDixie]

This was the most decorated regiment in World War II and performed with distinction in Italy.

They fought against white Christians though, which is basically what Japan was fighting against, not a valid comparison in my opinion. FWIW

[mathurine]

I liked a comment by Winston Churchill about some fellow being the kind of person who gives pedastry a bad name.

[PhilipFreneau]

I know that Muslims are not behind it, so you can imagine how I feel towards you, and all the current argument means utter nothing to me . . . I am a Muslim American, and you guys want me to stand entirely with the government to kill innocent Muslims, with my knowing that Muslims are no where behind the attacks?

Your arguments mean less than nothing to us. You admit you are with the terrorists, knowing that is not a very bright thing to say in this climate. But no one every made a good case for Muslims being that bright. But we all know that those who think like you are evil.

[father_elijah]

A brilliant post, simply brilliant and spot on.