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Auburn University professors decry rhetoric
Montgomery (AL) Advertiser ^ | September 21, 2001 | Alvin Benn

Posted on 09/22/2001 5:56:59 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!

Edited on 05/07/2004 5:12:16 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

AUBURN An Auburn University professor said Thursday that using the word "war" to describe America's budding assault on terrorism may be a bad idea given the country's military record since 1945.

"The U.S. has not won a war it declared since World War II," Barry Burkhart said. "We didn't win the Korean War, we didn't win the Vietnam War, we didn't win the war on poverty and we damn sure aren't winning the war on drugs."


(Excerpt) Read more at montgomeryadvertiser.com ...


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Where does one begin? Why does EVERY "Academic" have to spew this nonsense? I work for Auburn University. I'm gonna let this person know how wrong they are.

"The U.S. has not won a war it declared since World War II," Barry Burkhart said. "We didn't win the Korean War, we didn't win the Vietnam War, we didn't win the war on poverty and we damn sure aren't winning the war on drugs."

What wars have we DECLARED since WWII? Do North Korean Communists command Seoul? If Vietnam was a failure, point out ONE military battle we lost there? The failure is soley on the heads of the politicans of that era, not our military. The "War" on poverty and drugs was and is not a war, just because some politican declared it so.

He said terrorists are "so single-minded" that they sacrificed themselves, "so if their own death doesn't deter them, what could?"

Ah, yes, there are soldiers true to the cause who will die, but their "leaders" do NOT wish to die. They are the true cowards here, sending brainwashed fanatics out to die for them. So you see Professor, the fight is with the cowardly leadership of these terrorist rings. and when we kill them, then the terrorist attacks will cease. And here is the most important thing I can tell you: If we do NOT take this fight, war, even, if you will, to the terrorist leaders, then they WILL assemble other fanatic peons to kill MORE of us. So we cannot, even if we are truely committed to peace and good feelings, ignore this challenge lest we allow many more innocents to die. That, my dear Auburn colleague, is why we MUST fight. We cannot shirk our duty, no matter how distasteful. Your advice is not only wrong, it will lead to more atrocities against an innocent American public. So go away.

1 posted on 09/22/2001 5:56:59 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Alas Babylon!
How dare you use logic and reason (and accuracy) at a time like this.
2 posted on 09/22/2001 6:01:51 AM PDT by danzaroni
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To: Alas Babylon!
Maybe you'll feel better to know that here at Penn State we've heard none of this kind of tripe. Students and faculty here seem to be on board with the president and the nation.
3 posted on 09/22/2001 6:07:46 AM PDT by zook
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To: Alas Babylon!
Does anybody have an e-mail for Mr. Burkett? Let's flood his e-mail like we did yesterday with that pri@k Jensen in Texas. I think that jackass will think twice before publishing anti- american garbage. We just gotta do the same for Burkett or anyone else spewing the "pacifist" line.
4 posted on 09/22/2001 6:09:20 AM PDT by Sir_Humphrey
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To: Alas Babylon!
Korea was a "police action", not a declared war.

I do not believe Vietnam was a "declared war" either.

This present action is not a declared war, as yet.

Poverty? Drugs? Barry Burkhart is probably not qualified to take a shower alone, nevermind teaching.

Parents with children at Auburn need to reconsider how they spend their money!

5 posted on 09/22/2001 6:11:21 AM PDT by G.Mason
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To: zook
But can you believe Auburn University? Heart of the Patriotic South? If the left wing whiners can take hold here, where can true conservatives, lovers of their country, learn? I am heartsick that there seems to be no college to send my kids that doesn't have these bozos infecting their thinking.
6 posted on 09/22/2001 6:11:42 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: Alas Babylon!
Sigh, guess they need a major FReeping...........
8 posted on 09/22/2001 6:12:23 AM PDT by Nuke'm Glowing
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To: Alas Babylon!
He said terrorists are "so single-minded" that they sacrificed themselves, "so if their own death doesn't deter them, what could?"

Their death by the hand of someone else (US). Call it: "Nipping it in the bud"

FReegards,

9 posted on 09/22/2001 6:14:30 AM PDT by VMI70
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To: Alas Babylon!
I always knew there was something terribly wrong with many of the professors at Auburn. While earning my BS in Industrial Management, I was required to take a Labor Relations course. The professor was so pro-union, we constantly butted heads. I mean, please, he was teaching future management and touting unions - it was beyond me.

Auburn is definetely a publish or perish university. Publish enough (regardless of the merit of the publication - the objective to have Auburn University credited) and you are the hero of your department and awarded tenure. Once these dolts get tenure, you can't get rid of them. Fortunately, the professor mentioned above and a few others did not receive tenure as I reiterated my experiences each day at lunch with my father, the dean.

10 posted on 09/22/2001 6:14:33 AM PDT by Quilla
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To: Alas Babylon!
Oh, I know! It amazes me to find this kind of thing at Auburn, Texas, Alabama, etc. I can't understand how such places become such pockets of lunacy. Fortunately, such nonsense is conspicuous in its relative absence!
11 posted on 09/22/2001 6:15:31 AM PDT by zook
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To: Alas Babylon!
Just so much hot air from the Liberal geniuses in the Academia:


Liberal Academia Spew. . .


12 posted on 09/22/2001 6:15:59 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: Sir_Humphrey
Here is a page for the Auburn Alumni Board of Directors--CLICK. There are email links to every director. they need to hear what their "professors" are saying.

I WILL be bringing this up with my bosses, co-workers, and others. I WILL let my students know that this thinking is wrong and what our duty as citizens really entails (I am a military retiree, so I can speak with authority). I am, as stated earlier, heartsick that this ideologue is spewing this nonsense at Auburn. In my conversations and relations with others here, I haven't met too many leftists. I thought we were better. I guess the socialists America-haters are truely everywhere.

14 posted on 09/22/2001 6:20:18 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Alas Babylon!
Burkhart, who moderated the discussion, said America's buildup against terrorism is likely to meet determined enemies such as those who hijacked U.S. jetliners and flew them into the World Trade Center and Pentagon last week.

YES that IS OUR INTENT BUTTWIPE...to MEET THE ENEMY AND WIPE THEM OUT...WERE YOU LISTENING TO THE PRESIDENT THE OTHER NIGHT??? AND NOT JUST THESE LOWLIFES OF THE WORLD...THEIR FRIENDS, IN OTHER COUNTRIES, WHO HELP THEM PULL OFF THIS ATTACK AGAINST AMERICA. "This is not an act of war," he said. "It's a criminal act and should be treated as such. We need to find the individuals who did this and bring them to justice. We don't need to go to war."

HEY MARRONEE....REMEMBER THESE WORDS: "Our grief has turned to anger, and anger to resolution. Whether we bring our enemies to justice, or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.
President George W. Bush, September 20, 2001

15 posted on 09/22/2001 6:20:22 AM PDT by Neets
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To: amundsen
The Constitution of the United States of America

Article II [The Presidency]

Section 8. The Congress shall have power......... To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;......

16 posted on 09/22/2001 6:24:09 AM PDT by G.Mason
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To: G.Mason, Auburn University Alumni, War Eagles
Bump for Auburn Alumni!
17 posted on 09/22/2001 6:26:04 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Professor Burkhart (alas!)
Burkhart said the U.S. may have to "connect" with people instead of deterring them as far as terrorism is concerned.

Hey Professor! I thought 'either/or' thinking went out with post-modernist deconstuctionism. I think the plan is to both 'connect' and deter our opponent! Once we connect with the ringleaders in the proper way, they should be able to 'make the connection.'

18 posted on 09/22/2001 6:27:48 AM PDT by pariah
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To: Alas Babylon!
HMM Wonder what the Police Action was called Desert Storm
19 posted on 09/22/2001 6:30:28 AM PDT by scooby321
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To: Alas Babylon!
He said terrorists are "so single-minded" that they sacrificed themselves, "so if their own death doesn't deter them, what could?"

Um... professor... the PROSPECT of their own death doesn't deter them. Actual death, however, does finish their career. Get it?

20 posted on 09/22/2001 6:34:41 AM PDT by Anamensis
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To: Alas Babylon!
United States "to get us to overreact."

Definition of overreact: To react with unnecessary or inappropriate force, emotional display, or violence.

Qustion for this "professor" and all the others that say we shouldn't respond militarily: just how many innocent men, women and children will have to die before you feel a reaction IS necessary?

21 posted on 09/22/2001 6:37:01 AM PDT by meisterbrewer
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To: Alas Babylon!
Listen to danzaroni, we have a sickness here in the USofA that is just a vile and deadly as radical Islam. It is called PC Liberalism, and those that practice it are just as intolerant and wish you just as much harm as Ben Ladin.

The only difference I can observe between the two is that Ben Ladin and his ilk want to kill you fast. Liberals want to kill you slow by squeezing every ounce of production out of you first to support their weird ideas.

22 posted on 09/22/2001 6:38:03 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: Alas Babylon!
Go to

http://jaredp.com/rwbout/main.shtml

At Texas A&M students have made 40,000 T-shirts to sell for $5, the proceeds going to victims.

The shirts are be worn to today's game with the top tier RED, the middle WHITE and the bottom BLUE.

As of midnight, they had sold over 38,000 shirts.

Gig 'em!

23 posted on 09/22/2001 6:38:31 AM PDT by lonestar
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To: Alas Babylon!, ALL
A nationally known psychology professor, Burkhart said the U.S. may have to "connect" with people instead of deterring them as far as terrorism is concerned.
Dear Professor Burkhart:

We are proud to advise you that you are the lucky winner of 4 (Four) One-way tickets to Kabul, Afghanistan. Your tour guide for this lovely and cherished vacation wonderland is the one and only Osama bin Laden. He is Soooo proud to have your assistance in accomplishing his mission in New York and Washington, D.C. and looks forward to your joining his Club. . .

Puke!


Excerpt of President Bush's radio address to the nation September 15, 2001 after the WTC/Pentagon Terrorists Attacks of September 11, 2001:

"This is a conflict without battlefields or beachheads, a conflict with opponents who believe they are invisible. Yet, they are mistaken. They will be exposed, and they will discover what others in the past have learned: Those who make war against the United States have chosen their own destruction."



Please Support President Bush ! ! !

24 posted on 09/22/2001 6:40:19 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: Alas Babylon!
My first reaction was to post "Well, what can you expect from Auburn! Roll Tide!" Pretty trivial stuff and I'll leave save any Auburn 'bashing' for the Iron Bowl.

I'm sorry to hear this coming from Auburn. My cousin married some egghead from the University of Alabama and at the wedding were many of his fellow eggheads. Those folks were a whole different breed of people who all seemed like working in Alabama was more missionary work than anything... guess they thought we all needed enlightenment (cause we were all simply hicks, donchaknow).

keep em straight up there in Auburn. Btw... Could you send me some of those yummy wings from up there? Can't exactly recall the name of the place... Willys Wings maybe?

26 posted on 09/22/2001 6:49:15 AM PDT by sweet_diane
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To: Alas Babylon!
We have to keep clearly in mind as the Left ratchets up its resistance to America that these professors hate Americans as much as the WTC terrorists did. Like the terrorists, the professors hate what we have become and hate what we stand for. Like terrorists, the professors will, if allowed, use the freedoms that we treasure to destory those freedoms for the rest of us.
27 posted on 09/22/2001 6:53:14 AM PDT by Whilom
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To: G.Mason
I think we should call it a "War Against Professors"
28 posted on 09/22/2001 6:56:56 AM PDT by nancetc
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To: Alas Babylon!
First, I got my undergrad degree at Auburn University at Montgomery (stationed there in USAF). I'm embarrassed (but not surprised) to read this. Second, the difference between handling our security as a law enforcement matter versus a military matter is crucial. The only hope of preventing terrorist acts is to treat it as a military matter - evidence is simply a trail to terrorists that allows you to intercept them; you don't worry about "whether it will hold up in court".
29 posted on 09/22/2001 7:08:44 AM PDT by go_avs
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To: Alas Babylon!
A nationally known psychology professor, Burkhart said the U.S. may have to "connect" with people instead of deterring them as far as terrorism is concerned.

"Connections" made through explosives are the most lasting. So paint a smiley face on your next cluster bomb ...

"This is not an act of war," he said. "It's a criminal act and should be treated as such.

What is war but crime on a grand scale?

30 posted on 09/22/2001 7:14:30 AM PDT by IronJack
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To: Alas Babylon!
We didn't win the Korean War

When I was there - 1952 and 1953, it was called a Police Action, not a war. It wasn't called a War until about 15-20 years ago.

31 posted on 09/22/2001 7:15:40 AM PDT by jackbill
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To: MeeknMing
Is That Hillary?......
32 posted on 09/22/2001 7:21:11 AM PDT by AmericanDave
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To: Alas Babylon!
Winston Churchill: "If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be even a worse fate. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - From NewsMax Website.
33 posted on 09/22/2001 7:21:14 AM PDT by SamKeck
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To: Alas Babylon!
You are so right, we have to fight now, they are striking us till we finish them off.' But maybe the academic has a point in that we haven't done to well in undeclared wars, such as Korea, Viet Nam, So who can we "officialy" declare war on in this instance? Afghansitan has a gov't we want to remove....
34 posted on 09/22/2001 7:24:04 AM PDT by AmericanDave
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To: Alas Babylon!
There is an element of truth in what the professor says. There has been too much use of hyperbole in the last 50 years; e.g. "Evil" instead of "Bad". The use of superlatives has grown by leaps and bounds. Every noun has its string of modifiers. It might help to tone it down. A small point but useful as an aid to keep a clear head.
35 posted on 09/22/2001 7:24:38 AM PDT by HENRYADAMS
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To: Alas Babylon!
What the good professor doesn't realize, in fact the idea is probablly beyond his comprehension , that if backed against a wall many Americans understand the value of self sacrafice. Witness the attempt to retake the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania. That type of self sacrafice is not eaisly understood by a tenured professor who lives in the vacuum of the University!
36 posted on 09/22/2001 7:28:25 AM PDT by fightu4it
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To: Sir_Humphrey
Intimidate him eh? You love of freedom is touching.
37 posted on 09/22/2001 7:28:31 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Quilla
What are you saying? Are you calling for the abolition of academic freedom? If so, the conservative academics will be the first to suffer.
38 posted on 09/22/2001 7:30:21 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Alas Babylon!
I find this most amusing coming from Auburn, whose deafening battle cry at every football game is WAAAAARRR EAGLE, as an eagle is released from the upper deck of the stadium to circle and show off and finally dive down to the trainer on the 50-yard-line.

If memory serves, that battle cry began in WWII.

MM

39 posted on 09/22/2001 7:31:53 AM PDT by MississippiMan
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To: Austin Willard Wright
No sir, I'm thinking that academia has been flooded with lazy cowards who attempt to impress their personal beliefs in the form of education. A comment of this nature from an AU (or any) professor is akin to Julia Roberts giving me her opinion on government policies.
40 posted on 09/22/2001 7:44:05 AM PDT by Quilla
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To: Quilla
I would be first to agree with your assessment of academics. Having said that, I am even more worried about those here who are calling for witch hunts. Once "pubic opinion" shifts in different directions, these same PC folks would love to use "public opinion" as an excuse to fire conservative and libertarian academics who have spoken out at great risk including Alan Kors, John Lott, and Marvin Olasky.
41 posted on 09/22/2001 7:47:50 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Alas Babylon!
The good professor doesn't like the word "war." It's so harsh, so mean, so brutal. He also seems to have zero concept of the tragic difference between limited war, and war to the finish. Here's a clue, Prof: WW II WAS A WAR TO THE FINISH, THE GULF WAR WAS A LIMITED WAR.

Here's how you can test the difference between a general war and a limited one: Did the bad guy who started the war wind up dead at that end? Hitler did. Hussein didn't. Are we starting to grasp the picture here, Mr. Ph.D. guy?

For a serious academic discussion of the law of war, rather than this twaddle from Auburn, click below. The second one is far more detailed.

The (More er Less) Honorable Billybob,
cyberCongressman from Western Carolina

Click here for Billybob's latest, "The Engineering (and Law) of War."

Click here and go to "ALCU Watch" for a detailed legal discussion of how the US declares war, both historically and in this instance.

42 posted on 09/22/2001 7:56:23 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob
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To: Alas Babylon!
Does the word "War" give us the rights of conquest? Or is this a noble action that will be taken in our name to defend our country, its people, and our way of life? Why it is called "Operation Noble Eagle" or was that changed to "Infinite Justice"? What property rights and other rights will we acquire when we have a victory? And just who will acquire them?
43 posted on 09/22/2001 7:57:50 AM PDT by MtnMover
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To: G.Mason
Ooops for your cite. The power to declare war is in Article I that deals with Congress, not Article II that deals with the Presidency. Still, it is Section 8, clause 11, and you did quote it correctly.

Clinton repeatedly committed acts of war with our military, without seeking authority from Congress through a declaration. The first President Bush knew better than that. He asked Congress to act, and it did, before a shot was fired in the Gulf War.

I hope that this President Bush will follow his father's example, not the Clinton example. I hope he will respect the Constitution, and ask Congress to act officially (on House Joint Resolution 63, as amended), before the first shot is fired.

The (More er Less) Honorable Billybob,
cyberCongressman from Western Carolina

Click here for Billybob's latest, "The Engineering (and Law) of War."

Click here and go to "ALCU Watch" for a detailed legal discussion of how the US declares war, both historically and in this instance.

44 posted on 09/22/2001 8:04:26 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob
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To: Alas Babylon!, dighton
"The U.S. has not won a war it declared since World War II," Barry Burkhart said. "We didn't win the Korean War, we didn't win the Vietnam War, we didn't win the war on poverty and we damn sure aren't winning the war on drugs."

Barry Burkhart
Professor
223 Thach
334/844-6476
E-mail: burkhbr@mail.auburn.edu

Ph.D. Florida State University, 1974; ABPP; Professor. Research interests focus on violence and victimization, especially sexual violence and response to trauma. He is on the editorial board of Aggression and Violent Behavior as well as serving as a consulting editor for the Journal of Sex Research and Criminal Justice and Behavior. He is a Fellow of Divisions 12 and 29 of the American Psychological Association. Teaching interests include courses on psychotherapy and behavior change, human sexuality, and clinical methods in psychology. He is also a part owner of a psychology practice in the Auburn community and has extensive forensic experience.

Terre,L. & Burkhart, B.R. (1995). Problem sexual behaviors in adolescence. Adolescent dysfunctional behaviors: Causes, intervention, and prevention. Newbury Park: Sage Publishers
Burkhart, B.R. & Fromuth, M.E. (1996). Psychotherapy for victims of acquaintance rape. In T. Jackson (Ed.). A menal health professional's guide to dealing with acquaintance rape. Professional Resource Exchange Press: Sarasota, FL.
Alata, C.A. & Burkhart, B.R. (1996).Post-traumatic stress disorder among college student acquaintance assualt victims. The Journal of Psychology and Human Sexuality, 8, 79-92.
Alata, C.A. & Burkhart, B.R. (1996).Post-traumatic stress disorder among college student acquaintance assualt victims. In E.S. Byers & L.F. O'Sullivan (Eds). Sexual Coercion in Dating Relationships. Haworth Press: Binghamton, NY.
Alata, C.A. & Burkhart, B.R. (1998). Coping appraisals and adjustment to non-stranger sexual assault. Violence against women: An international journal, 4 (2), 224-239.

45 posted on 09/22/2001 8:05:16 AM PDT by Orual
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: Alas Babylon!
Alas Babylon you are reaching more Auburn men and women than you think. Me, my sister (lurker), and brother (rare poster, mostly lurker) are thankful for showing us the rotten part of melon so we can attempt to cut it out. My emails are going now. Thanks for the links.

God bless our men and women that fight for freedom and justice.

47 posted on 09/22/2001 8:16:06 AM PDT by LowOiL
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To: amundsen
Thanks proper language usage is a small point. However, it clears the mind by avoiding hysteria.
48 posted on 09/22/2001 8:20:29 AM PDT by HENRYADAMS
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To: Alas Babylon!
"This is not an act of war," he said.

I work for Auburn University. I'm gonna let this person know how wrong they are.

Please ax 'em what they consider an act of war. I'm not sure if you'll be able to get details from the squishy-minded...

49 posted on 09/22/2001 8:24:35 AM PDT by Libloather
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To: Alas Babylon!
Have you seen this: It is from an Auburn person. Plays like an film.

http://www.auburn.edu/~peckrob/wtc_tribute.html

Sorta mushy but it is not anti-american at least. Well worth viewing.

50 posted on 09/22/2001 8:29:57 AM PDT by LowOiL
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