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A truth nobody wants to face
www.thebereancall.org ^ | Sept. 2001 | Dave Hunt

Posted on 09/22/2001 8:44:49 AM PDT by PietroA

Full text of article can be found also HERE

It would be extremely naive to imagine that terrorists who are willing to blow themselves up in Israel or to crash a plane at the loss of their own and many other lives do so for some commendable humanitarian cause. The courage comes solely from a unique doctrine of Islam. Abu-Bakr, the first Caliph to succeed Muhammad (and one of the few to whom Muhammad promised Paradise without martyrdom), declared that even if he had one foot in Paradise he could not trust Allah to let him in. The only sure way in Islam of achieving Paradise is to sacrifice one's life in jihad. Yes, suicide is forbidden as self-murder. But to sacrifice one's life in killing infidels carries the highest reward.

And what reward does Paradise bring to the jihad martyr? He is promised a palace of pearls in which are 70 mansions; inside each mansion are 70 houses and in each house a bed on which are 70 sheets and on each sheet a beautiful virgin. He is assured that he will have the appetite and strength of 100 men for food and sex. This is the fantastic dream that is fed to Muslim boys from earliest childhood. This motivation alone gives the reckless courage and determination to train and execute terrorist deeds in which they sacrifice their lives in bringing death and destruction to "the enemies of Allah."


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It's not courage or bravery that motivates these terrorists.

They just take to the max (extreme) what they have been thought since children. The question then arises, "why then aren't all Muslims like that?"

They have good sense.

1 posted on 09/22/2001 8:44:49 AM PDT by PietroA
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To: PietroA,lent,rebdov,patent,MHGinTN,nunya bidness,gonzo
The specific Fatwa issued by Osama Bin Laden ordering moslems worldwide to kill all Americans, military and civilian, specifically quotes and uses the koran's surya 9-5 as its justification.

This Fatwa, read personally by OBL and taped and played and read millions of times, constitutes the "standing orders" of all Jihadist in the world.

And it quotes directly from the koran.

2 posted on 09/22/2001 8:50:20 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: Samaritan
Please explain why Osama Bin Laden's Fatwa quotes directly word for word the Koran's Surya 9-5 in issuing his call to kill all Americans, civilian and military, and why we have not heard Surya 9-5 specifically denounced by CAIR, AMC, or any other major "moderate" islmaic groups?

BTW, do you know where the Pentagon bombers lived? With the founder of the San Diego Islamic Center, a major figure in CAIR and a professor at SDSU.

Just a coincidence I suppose.

4 posted on 09/22/2001 9:01:48 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Samaritan
I hear what you say, and there is general agreement to that. But we MUST at the same time consider how the other side (the Muslims) view it. Ignoring that, it's fatal.
5 posted on 09/22/2001 9:22:12 AM PDT by PietroA
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To: Samaritan
But Allah is sure to run out of virgins up there in Paradise pretty soon, haven't these fellows thought out the logistics on this? And perhaps Paradise is not all that infinitely expandable either.

Seems a pity that their side should get a perk like that, and our own boys don't.

6 posted on 09/22/2001 9:35:35 AM PDT by alloysteel
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To: PietroA
FYI

BIBLE vs. KORAN

7 posted on 09/22/2001 10:51:54 AM PDT by PaxMacian
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To: PietroA
So let me get this straight. The reason they hate us is because of our materialistic love of wealth and our decadent immorality...and their reward for murdering us all would be...mansions, pearls and the promise of voracious sex for eternity?

Yeah, I get it.

8 posted on 09/22/2001 11:01:39 AM PDT by LisaFab
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To: Travis McGee
Thanks.
9 posted on 09/22/2001 1:17:55 PM PDT by nunya bidness
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To: PietroA
I can understand their resolve then. Along about puberty I would have volunteered for a suicide mission, if I had been promised an eternity of what unlimited supplies of what filled my daydreams and starched my drawers in night dreams. Yep that is every young mans vision of paradice when their harmones are so active they sparkle in the dark all around their body.

These terrorists are even more dangerous than I thought.

10 posted on 09/22/2001 1:31:57 PM PDT by F.J. Mitchell
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To: Samaritan, Travis McGee
You are doing exactly what the terrorists hoped for.. This is not about religion.

This is most certainly about religious hegemony amongst other things but the fact Islam is the common denominator in all of our enemies (except perhaps the Palestinian leader, Habash) cannot and should not be ignored nor whitewashed.

I have yet to see an uprising of Muslims in this country proclaiming their loyalty and denouncing their brethren. All I see are PC talking heads hand wringing for tolerance and Muslim clerics and political leaders complaining about "profiling" and "not feeling safe". Our leaders are in a tuff spot and are encouraging folks to remain level headed with regards to Islam. I understand this. We don't need widescale panic and lynching but it's becoming more apparent daily just how widely intertwined the zealots are with alleged Muslim "moderates". Our leaders are also trying to prevent this from becoming a war against Islam as a whole. Again I understand the logic and I hope it works but much like the Muslim clerics here, I don't feel terribly safe either for myself or my family.

We are facing an enemy that wishes to destroy us if at all possible or (hard to believe)..covert us. We may have to steel ourselves to measures that we have never imagined in order to prevail.

I would recommend all non-resident Muslims to go home..for now. I have spent a large chunk of my life in countries where at times anti-Americanism boiled over. I sure didn't hang around and ask for understanding or special attention.

11 posted on 09/22/2001 1:57:31 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: wardaddy
I think that all arab moslems who have come to America in the last five years would be wise to go home.

If there is, for example, a "biological 9-11" which kills another five or ten thousand (or many more) Americans, and the trail to the killers leads through the mosques and cultural centers (again) then all bets will be off.

12 posted on 09/22/2001 2:31:54 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Samaritan
"hysterics and bigots and dummies"

Six thousand innocent people lay dead under rubble, killed by arab moslem covert jihadists, and we Americans are "hysterics and bigots and dummies" to question the loyalty of newly arrived arab moslems.

What will it take to get YOU hysterical? A bio attack? A million dead? Ten million? What?

13 posted on 09/22/2001 2:35:57 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
The specific Fatwa issued by Osama Bin Laden ordering moslems worldwide to kill all Americans, military and civilian, specifically quotes and uses the koran's surya 9-5 as its justification.

And, along with the truth nobody wants to face - a question. If there are a billion moslems worldwide, and there has been a death fatwa issued against a novelist (Salman Rushdie), and now against ALL Americans...where is a single fatwa...just ONE...that orders all good moslems to kill the terrorist bint Larden?

We're told the war isn't about religion. Very well. Show me ONE such death fatwa issued by an American mosque. There are seven million moslems in the US. Where is the clear declaration of their loyalties?

Could the answer be....nowhere?

14 posted on 09/22/2001 2:38:44 PM PDT by neutrino (Neutrino)
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To: neutrino
Could be. The Pentagon killers were living with the founder of the San Diego Islamic Cultural Center.
15 posted on 09/22/2001 2:49:26 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: PietroA
>The question then arises, "why then aren't all Muslims like that?" They have good sense.

I encourage everyone to look into this question as deeply as they can. It's very, very interesting in and of itself, plus it's very, very interesting in evaluating the place of religion in America's future -- I suspect Red Nation America and Blue Nation America would have different views on the question and what the future should be.

For instance, the practical background of Islamic Fundamentalism in the middle east gets real interesting around the middle 70s. Around that time, religious extremists in the Muslim world were few and far between and weren't very influential. They were there, but more or less ignored. Then, when the Shah came to power in Iran, two things happened. 1) Global culture tried to "modernize" Iranian culture. Sex and women's lib and all that crap became big issues. Many of the people hated that change to their culture. When they had no where else to turn, they turned to the only people who shared their hatred-- the Muslim clerics who were fundamentalists. 2) THEN the Islamic Fundamentalists rose rapidly in power and became a political force. They conquored Iran (and for the first time in a big way suicide fighters were used -- not against the West per se, but in the Iran-Iraq border wars) and the paradigm of Islam Revolt spread to Lebanon and then beyond.

It started in Iran because of the way the globalist tried to impose global culture on the Iranians. (For more of this discussion, check out The Coming War in the Middle East It's good stuff!) Mark W.

16 posted on 09/22/2001 2:52:21 PM PDT by MarkWar
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To: Travis McGee
Near Condit Country.
17 posted on 09/22/2001 2:56:41 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: PietroA
The question then arises, "why then aren't all Muslims like that?"

My question is why aren't all the hundreds and hundreds of millions of so-called "good" Muslims, who do not believe Allah wants them to slaughter thousands of innocent women and children, denouncing this perverse heresy from every rooftop in the Middle East -- instead of dancing in the street and handing out candy to children? Answer: There are no good Muslims.

18 posted on 09/22/2001 3:09:52 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: Travis McGee
"...And it quotes directly from the koran..."

I know, Travis. I studied these people eons ago.

I've never seen a People poison their own wells so effectively....FRegards

19 posted on 09/22/2001 9:36:43 PM PDT by gonzo
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To: PietroA
"And what reward does Paradise bring to the jihad martyr? He is promised a palace of pearls in which are 70 mansions; inside each mansion are 70 houses and in each house a bed on which are 70 sheets and on each sheet a beautiful virgin. He is assured that he will have the appetite and strength of 100 men for food and sex. "

Hmmmm, this allah sounds like a sex maniac. This is bogus crap that appeals to the macho, sex starved male. Why is it with these charletons that SEX has to be the major prize? It really emphasizes what these males think with. No, not impressed.

20 posted on 09/22/2001 9:40:30 PM PDT by nmh
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To: Samaritan
actually, what *you* don't want to admit is that this *is* about gutter religion and the culture it lends itself to. there is right and wrong, and either muhammad is right or Jesus is. islam is a false gutter religion sending all kinds of people straight to hell.
21 posted on 09/22/2001 9:41:34 PM PDT by Anonymous2
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To: alloysteel
hmmmmmmmm..........

Once the martyrs "do them", they ain't "virgins", anymore.

In any event, what sort of "virgins" are being offered? Human?

From the perversity I've seen of these "faithful", I wonder.

22 posted on 09/22/2001 9:42:17 PM PDT by Thumper1960
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To: F.J. Mitchell
lol. it's such a sick perversion from satan it's not funny anymore though.
23 posted on 09/22/2001 9:43:21 PM PDT by Anonymous2
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To: wardaddy
well said.
24 posted on 09/22/2001 9:44:55 PM PDT by Anonymous2
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To: Travis McGee
amen. it's about time the truth about this spiritual warfare be stared down. either that, or let's pack it in and go up to heaven.
25 posted on 09/22/2001 9:47:38 PM PDT by Anonymous2
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To: PietroA
Thanks fo posting this. I hope others read it in its entirety. It accurate.

"And what is it but Islam that unites the otherwise divided Arab world in an implacable and unreasoning hatred against Israel? No Arab map in the world admits Israel's existence. It is only Islam's claim that Ishmael, not Isaac, was the son of promise and that the Holy Land belongs to them which unites Arabs in the "fanatical" determination to destroy the Jews."

Yes, it's all about religion. U.S. supports the Israelis and hence they are evil too.

The Koran differs from the Bible. It falsely states that Ishmael is the proper heir and they were promised the land rather than the Jews, God's chosen people.

It is a violent religion but people don't want to hear it. It makes em feel bad. As stated, sucide is acceptable when it suits their agenda. I suppose allah has a double standard. On and on it goes.

26 posted on 09/22/2001 9:48:11 PM PDT by nmh
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To: LisaFab
So let me get this straight. The reason they hate us is because of our materialistic love of wealth and our decadent immorality...and their reward for murdering us all would be...mansions, pearls and the promise of voracious sex for eternity?

Yeah, I get it.

Excellent point. The irony is lost on them.

27 posted on 09/22/2001 9:51:08 PM PDT by bootless
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To: PaxMacian
Virgins as fair as corals and rubies.

Gee, I wonder what the women get when they make it to heaven?

28 posted on 09/22/2001 9:54:26 PM PDT by Slyfox
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To: PaxMacian
Thanks fo rposting the link clearly hihglighting the differences between Chritianity and the koran.

It's all true.

"The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, was no more than Allah's apostle and His Word which He cast to Mary: a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His apostles and do not say: "Three." Forbear, and it shall be better for you. Allah is but one God. Allah forbid that He should have a son! His is all that the heavens and the earth contain. Allah is the all-sufficient Protector."

Sura 4:171

Christian believe otherwise.

It's no wonder that leaders of this religion cannot condemn their actions since it is part of their religion to destroy others of a different belief. This is exactly what they are doing.

29 posted on 09/22/2001 9:54:56 PM PDT by nmh
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To: wardaddy
"I have yet to see an uprising of Muslims in this country proclaiming their loyalty and denouncing their brethren. All I see are PC talking heads hand wringing for tolerance and Muslim clerics and political leaders complaining about "profiling" and "not feeling safe".

You're not alone. That's what I have been seeing and hearing. The reason is because they don't disagree with what the terrorists have done. It's an aspect of their religion being acted on.

30 posted on 09/22/2001 9:59:07 PM PDT by nmh
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To: Travis McGee
If there is, for example, a "biological 9-11" which kills another five or ten thousand (or many more) Americans, and the trail to the killers leads through the mosques and cultural centers (again) then all bets will be off.

You're right. They should just leave, and those that don't volunteer should be visited by INS and strongly encouraged to go back from whence they've come. People are showing great restraint right now, by and large...but another hit like 9-11 and all hell is likely to break loose.

31 posted on 09/22/2001 10:03:26 PM PDT by pgkdan
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To: Slyfox
Gee, I wonder what the women get when they make it to heaven?

They're somewhere else. Those women in the mansions are in their hell.

32 posted on 09/22/2001 10:03:37 PM PDT by bootless
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To: LisaFab
I have a house, some sheets and a few pearls. Wanna engage in a little research project, just to get an understanding of how the other side thinks?

Did I REALLY say that just now? What a pig! I should be slapped silly! :)

33 posted on 09/22/2001 10:05:36 PM PDT by Critter
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To: Travis McGee
If there is, for example, a "biological 9-11" which kills another five or ten thousand (or many more) Americans, and the trail to the killers leads through the mosques and cultural centers (again) then all bets will be off.

I agree with this. I also think it won't stop at our borders. Whole countries will be nuked, just to lower the odds of it happening again.

I think your estimate of the deaths in a biological attack are low by 2 or 3 orders of magnitude. A simultaneous anthrax attack in ten cities would kill 20 to 30 million. Think about it: this could be done by ten people who are already in the country and who bought their crop dusters five years ago and have them safely stored in hangars, ready to go.

This is very serious, and very dicey.


34 posted on 09/22/2001 10:07:54 PM PDT by Nick Danger
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To: PietroA
All I can say about this pearl and 70 virgin stuff, now that it is all said and done, How do they like all that suffering and high fire burning their butts???
35 posted on 09/22/2001 10:11:14 PM PDT by GUIDO
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To: Nick Danger
A lot of people think that the next attack will be in big cities, but there are an awful lot of us that feel mighty secure in our country abodes. I wonder if the next attack might not be one to unsettle those of us a little off the beaten path?
36 posted on 09/22/2001 10:12:44 PM PDT by Critter
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To: alloysteel
But Allah is sure to run out of virgins up there in Paradise pretty soon, haven't these fellows thought out the logistics on this? LOL!  I figure by the time the boys are 10 years old any kind of  thinking outside of what they are taught religiously is totally gone.  Now I'm thinking these fanatics have tremendous weaknesses.  Like our slippery slope if we could start to change their doctrine from all the food they want plus a little bowl of bacon bits for your salad ("oh oh, that's just if you want them"), now use your imagination and run with it to you have like the movie Godfather scene with the horses head in bed with the guy to pig heads with each sheet?  See?  Now they're f**ked.  No Moslem would follow that.  Terrorism gone.
37 posted on 09/22/2001 10:12:53 PM PDT by jwh_Denver
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To: Nick Danger
IF the terrorists perform such an act of genocide, calculate the possibility of American nuclear retaliation towards those areas of the world that have sheltered and supported those same terrorists.

6,000 dead have brought this amount of retaliation to the bin-Laden's of the world; 20-30 million would rate middle east annihilation.

38 posted on 09/22/2001 10:14:09 PM PDT by Thumper1960
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To: gonzo
This seems like a final kamikaze mission for islam, a grand case of "strategic over reach". They have no chance of ultimate victory, and a great chance of mass expulsions and crushing defeats.

In the mid term the West may suffer bio attacks, randoms shootings and bombings, infrastructure attacks and ruined economies.

But this will merely hone our steel to go and sort them out for good.

This is a war between 21st century civilization, and the zealots who want to pull the civilization down and return to the tenth century. They can hurt us all, but we can crush them absolutely.

39 posted on 09/22/2001 10:14:58 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: PietroA
bttt
40 posted on 09/22/2001 10:14:58 PM PDT by Don Myers
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To: LisaFab
Indeed, why not cut out the middleman, and let the lads have a weekend in Vegas, do as much boozing and whoring as possible.
41 posted on 09/22/2001 10:15:39 PM PDT by habs4ever
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To: Samaritan
With all due respect, I don't think it is helpful to label all those who are a little uneasy about those non citizens who are Muslims, "bigots, dummies, and hysterics." It would seem to me, with the authorities telling us there are more terrorists among us, we have some reason to be concerned. That does not mean we are bigots, or dumb, or hysterical.
We just saw carnage in our nation caused by Arabs who are in a "holy war" against us.
42 posted on 09/22/2001 10:15:53 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: neutrino
Great point. I am also confused, at least by the American Muslims, at the failure to stand up in our country to demonstrate their rejection of fundamentalist/extremists. I saw the American Muslim Association of some sort stand up and tell us that we should be careful in our retaliation, the FBI was mistreating them, and Americans were lashing out against them.

The fact is, Muhammad said he was ordered by God to fight the unbelievers. bin Laden and others believe they have the same angels speaking to them now. What is a moderate Muslim, someone who doesn't think about this day to day, someone who rejects the words of their prophet, or is it someone who cannot turn from this calling when the rubber hits the road. Perhaps this is why they remain silent except in complaints.

43 posted on 09/22/2001 10:16:14 PM PDT by Dolphy
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To: wardaddy
I have yet to see an uprising of Muslims in this country proclaiming their loyalty and denouncing their brethren.

This is the proverbial elephant in the living room that no one wants to see.

I'm a few miles out of NYC - I will perish when they unleash the chemical/biological weapons. (And they WILL). I have one wish - please use nukes after I'm gone.

44 posted on 09/22/2001 10:16:59 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: pgkdan
Damn right it will. Have you read the new "cropduster" threads?
45 posted on 09/22/2001 10:17:40 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Dolphy
I am also confused, at least by the American Muslims, at the failure to stand up in our country to demonstrate their rejection of fundamentalist/extremists.

Excellent point. I think this says a great deal.

46 posted on 09/22/2001 10:20:54 PM PDT by Mulder
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To: Nick Danger
I agree with you, my numbers were very optimistic lowballs based on only one or two anthrax attacks, where the terrorists do not optimize the dispersion or the climate and weather factors for their targets.

If OBL already has ten cropdusters ready, and uses them, we will respond with nukes.

I just hope that if this is so, they do not have a default plan where if OBL is killed or captured, say, they launch right away.

And I hope and pray the FBI is doing yeoman's work rounding up these insane death cultists.

47 posted on 09/22/2001 10:22:39 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
Just one question. How are we going to fight this war after our economy is shattered, our infrastructure is attacked, our supplys are depleted and worst of all, our manufacturing is held hostage by Red China? Who stands to benefit from this war on terrorism? Makes me wonder which nation is sponsoring this terrorism after all.
48 posted on 09/22/2001 10:23:51 PM PDT by The Westerner
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To: Travis McGee
Take a look here on this FReeper Thread, where I posted the e-mail for the Berean Call October Newsletter --

http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3baa10ae698c.htm


49 posted on 09/22/2001 10:29:29 PM PDT by Star Traveler (aldebaran6640@hotmail.com)
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To: nmh
Me thinks the muslims here for the most part were not prepared for what happened 9/11/01. I'm thinking they are asking the American people not to put them all in the same basket, be patient towards them, which will only to give them time to CIRCLE THEIR WAGONS BETTER.
50 posted on 09/22/2001 10:31:14 PM PDT by annieokie
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