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America's New Religiosity: God Bless America, But Don't You Dare Tell Us To Repent!
Alpha & Omega Ministries ^ | n/d | Dr. James White

Posted on 09/22/2001 10:00:05 AM PDT by BibChr

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To: Conservative til I die
Yeah I have a personal hotline to Jesus as does others . It's called prayer .

The Church is all believers who have recieved Christ Jesus and have a personal relationship with God through Christ Jesus . A church would be a place of gathering where people are fed, edified and saved etc .

Religion however is crap .

Cheese .

151 posted on 09/23/2001 12:19:42 AM PDT by AmericanCheeseFood
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To: Conservative til I die
Click on the link I left intitled Allah of Islam VS. Trinity of Christianity . This is in answer to your reply to someone who explained the Trinity in simple, paraphrased though true, Biblical facts .
152 posted on 09/23/2001 12:24:02 AM PDT by AmericanCheeseFood
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To: MoJo2001
You're skeptical and rightfully so .

Cheese .

153 posted on 09/23/2001 5:58:17 AM PDT by AmericanCheeseFood
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To: mitch5501
You seem to be going around in circles.
It wasn't my intention to do that. I just wanted to point out that the reasons for your beliefs are similar to the reasons of those who believe other things but as far as I can see you acknowledged that.
I accept your beliefs and the reasons you hold them. As I can see you are so convinced of the teachings/holy book of your religion that you think they can win a direct comparison with the teachings, holy books, etc. of other religions.
Of course it's your good right to think so but I can tell you that this is not going to work and not just because this has been done over and over again with no satisfactorily result but because religious teachings/holy books are always subject to interpretation. Therefore if you're skilled enough you can make them mean whatever you want them to mean.
In science that's of course an other issue and it's done all the time because that's the way science works but concerning religions that's always a futile venture.

They certainly are and to be honest I think you have just demonstrated that yourself by going straight past my reason and saying the same thing again....ie:"what makes you so sure?"
I'm sorry I did this. You already gave me your reasons why you believe and as I said above I accept them. There's only one problem: most people told me they believe what they believe because it's true and it teaches the Truth (whatever that may be). You on the other hand use your religion and beliefs as theories and models are used in science. A scientist never claims a theory or a model to be true but that they describe reality the best (and if they don't they are discarded). Thus, if I see that right, you hold your beliefs not because they're true but because you think they're the best that exist. If that helps you I've no problem with that I just found it to be very unusual.

Do you believe you are immune to this?
No, I don't believe I am immune to this, I'm a human after all but I'm aware that it can happen. Therefore I try to question everything I think I'm really convinced of. And I don't see that doubts are strong held convictions. So I just want to make clear, before any misconceptions arise, that I am "not convinced that any god(s) exist" and not "convinced that god(s) don't exist" (and no, it's not the same). I hope you realize that "not being convinced" cannot be a strong held conviction.

And just to make it clear I never intended to offend anyone or take away his beliefs but I only tried to show where I see problems and flaws in this concept.

Regards

154 posted on 09/23/2001 6:58:10 AM PDT by BMCDA
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To: MoJo2001
Well, being a politician and hypocrisy go hand in hand. IMO there is always a point in a politician's career where he has to be a hypocrite in order to be reelected. That's the system.
155 posted on 09/23/2001 7:04:39 AM PDT by BMCDA
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To: AmericanCheeseFood
Yes, prayer is a personal hotline to Jesus. However, there is a little something more to it than "Jesus n' me." Jesus Himself would disagree with your opinion that "religion is crap." Jesus Himself was an observant and devout Jew. He also left a Church behind, with leaders, the most important of them being St. Peter. Now, its my personal belief that His Church is the Catholic Church, with the Pope as the leader. Some Protestants will say no such thing happened, some will say that the Catholic Church was the Church until it allegedly became corrupted, but the vast majority of the Protestant Churches do have an organized, religious structure, with rituals, hierarchy, and customs.

In the non-Gospel sections of the New Testament, hierarchal positions are mentioned, such as bishop.

I assume, that if you think religion is crap, that you ignore almost all the rituals involved. So does this mean that you do not engage in the act of Communion or any other sacraments??? Communion is the most sacred and important rite in Christianity.

I'm not sure of your beef with religion. All religion is is an organized system of beliefs focusing on certain unchangeable truths. You can't just make up your Christian beliefs as you go, which is one of the dangers of doing it on your own.
156 posted on 09/23/2001 7:19:11 AM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: atlaw
Did I leave anybody out?

Yeah.

Smart asses.

Dan

157 posted on 09/23/2001 8:58:38 AM PDT by BibChr
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To: MoJo2001
Actually, I find hypocrisy in watching the same members of Congress that absolutely want God removed from every institution in America up there last week singing "God Bless America".

Oh, MoJo, you know it's just because those rules don't apply to them! They're for the peons!

Dan

158 posted on 09/23/2001 9:01:00 AM PDT by BibChr
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To: BibChr
Touche.
159 posted on 09/23/2001 9:07:00 AM PDT by atlaw
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To: Conservative til I die
Again religion is crap .

A man could do communion, go to a church every day of service, be Baptised, pray etc . and still not enter the kingdom of Heaven .

Cheese .

160 posted on 09/23/2001 9:07:12 AM PDT by AmericanCheeseFood
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To: AmericanCheeseFood
Rituals are the soul of religions. Without them religions decay. And without religion everyone's going to believe whatever he wants and as a result you have many one-man-religions. IMO this is pretty much the case today, at least in the western world.
161 posted on 09/23/2001 9:51:40 AM PDT by BMCDA
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To: BibChr
bump for a great article
162 posted on 09/23/2001 10:16:02 AM PDT by boxlunch
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To: BMCDA
John 14:6

I am the way the truth and the life; NO MAN cometh unto the Father BUT BY ME." --Jesus Christ, Matthew:

Jesus speaking
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: 1 depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Revelations 3:15-16

Again gods words.

15 I know your works and that you are neither cold nor hot, I could wish you were cold or hot.

16 So then, because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

The last is to a church btw . These go for everyone .

I am to share the Truth and bring souls to heaven . To watch out for my fellow brethren that they may not stumble . To follow that which Jesus taught as well as maintain my Life (Relationship) with God .

Jude 20-25

20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 On some have compassion making a distinction;

23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by flesh .

I like this prayer in Jude so I'm putting it here to share with others as well.

Glory to God

24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

25 To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, be glory and magesty, dominion and power, both now and forever Amen .

Anyways, acts don't save anyone, the "soul" if Christianity is in a relationship with the One true king that is Jesus .

Religion, is crap .

Only repentence from sin and acceptence of the Truth may one be with God . This is an open ticket for anyone willing to ride .

Cheese.

163 posted on 09/23/2001 12:10:29 PM PDT by AmericanCheeseFood
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To: BMCDA
John 14:6

I am the way the truth and the life; NO MAN cometh unto the Father BUT BY ME." --Jesus Christ, Matthew:

Jesus speaking
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: 1 depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Revelations 3:15-16

Again gods words.

15 I know your works and that you are neither cold nor hot, I could wish you were cold or hot.

16 So then, because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

The last is to a church btw . These go for everyone .

I am to share the Truth and bring souls to heaven . To watch out for my fellow brethren that they may not stumble . To follow that which Jesus taught as well as maintain my Life (Relationship) with God .

Jude 20-25

20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 On some have compassion making a distinction;

23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by flesh .

I like this prayer in Jude so I'm putting it here to share with others as well.

Glory to God

24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

25 To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, be glory and magesty, dominion and power, both now and forever Amen .

Anyways, acts don't save anyone, the "soul" if Christianity is in a relationship with the One true king that is Jesus .

Religion, is crap .

Only repentence from sin and acceptence of the Truth may one be with God . This is an open ticket for anyone willing to ride .

Cheese.

164 posted on 09/23/2001 12:10:40 PM PDT by AmericanCheeseFood
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To: moneyrunner
Religious liberals may mock our “literalistic” reading of the Bible at this point, preferring to simply label us “fundamentalists” and ignorant

Look, I agree with a lot you folks have to say. And [almost] all of you are fine folks. But statements like those I quoted are what piss me off. The sentence essentially says, "We read it and do what is says." Well, I read it too. That's not the problem. The problem is reading it and knowing what it DOES say. That's where well-intentioned people disagree.

For those that assert what the man claims, it is wrong. For those, like the writer, who assert that every disagreement is either misguided or caused by not reading the Bible (ignorance?), is just as wrong.

165 posted on 09/23/2001 12:20:08 PM PDT by jammer
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To: jammer, All
Hey, in 163 (164 OOPS) it says what the Bible says in it in pretty plain English . For you I suggest that you go and seek fellowship with believers at a good local Christian church .

If you haven't reieved Jesus, it's as simple as asking Him in . Talking to Him is easy, it's the basis of what's called Prayer . No ritual needed . An example of this would be .(You can either use these words or another.) Jesus, come into my life, I realise that I have sinned and now repent to follow You . Wash me as pure as the driven snow so that I may be reborn into a life with You and be accepted by the Father . Father God, I thank you for your Son, that you sent Him to die for me, so that I may come to You and that I may recieve Your Holy Spirit . Amen .

Basic blue print . It's up to you wether you recieve Him or not .

Cheese .

166 posted on 09/23/2001 12:56:15 PM PDT by AmericanCheeseFood
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To: AmericanCheeseFood
In my post I was refering to religion in general. Rituals and dogma are the cohesive forces in religion. Without that people can believe whatever they want and that particular religion isn't stable anymore and falls apart. Therefore one can observe that religions with very strict rules and rituals represent the most stable systems (e.g. Judaism).
167 posted on 09/23/2001 1:51:17 PM PDT by BMCDA
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To: BibChr,the_doc,all
James White wrote: "..... If they [Christians] speak in accordance with the Word they may well find themselves being called "unpatriotic" and "judgmental.".

And I just saw (and videotaped) blatant evidence ot that just now during the prayer service at the football stadium in NY.

Someone (a firefighter, I think), was introduced who got up and quoted the words of Paul in the last 5 verses of Romans 8 (verses 35-39).

Well .... all the words in those verses .... EXCEPT for one minor little detail; the last seven words in verse 39.

Of course that was done so as not to "offend" anyone.

I wonder if the young man who read those verses even knew that the last seven words were DELIBERATELY excluded. I'm betting he didn't.

I've been watching in vain for "the _whole_ Truth of God" to be spoken .... AT LEAST .... out of the mouths of those who profess to speak and teach in the name of the *Christian* God.

ESPECIALLY since, "Christianity ___IS___ the Lord Jesus Christ."

Oh yeah .... the part of verse 39 he quoted was: ".... nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God" but left out: "WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD."

Those who left out that part, fear men more than God.

168 posted on 09/23/2001 1:53:53 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (Soothsayers and hirelings value a phony "unity" over TRUTH.)
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To: BMCDA
Study to show yourself approved .. With Jesus comes grace . Religion is bondage from grace with rules that hold sed religion together .

Avoid bondage . Avoid crap .

Cheese .

Dale Jr. won!

169 posted on 09/23/2001 4:57:02 PM PDT by AmericanCheeseFood
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To: atlaw
I didn't see Southern Baptists or Billy Graham on your list, whew, am I relieved! =:0)
170 posted on 09/23/2001 5:16:19 PM PDT by texgal
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To: american arnie james
Yes, those things miss the mark of God's perfection. Things go much better the way He designed them.

Giving Him the finger as though He didn't know what He was doing is not a great survival skill. He happens to be The Boss. He also happens to have The Power to back up His position.

But He's interested in freely chosen Loving dialogue with Friends. Alas, relatively few seem eager to pay the price of giving up their pride and rebellion to have authentic intimacy with Him.

Personally, I think Pride is a more foundational and destructive evil than any you listed. . . . Pride, rebellion, idolatry, defiance--not good survival traits.

171 posted on 09/23/2001 7:02:56 PM PDT by Quix
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Comment #172 Removed by Moderator

To: american arnie james
Having counseled many homosexuals, I have found they can be about as varied as other sub-groups.

Many seem to sort of defiantly glory in giving God the finger and going their own way. I suspect that even they are full of inner angst and would prefer less pain in their lives.

Some are in great surface anguish as well and would give all they had to be free of values and habits at cross purposes with society and God's design. And they can be incredibly sensitive and kind.

In fact, I sometimes wonder how God will look at some such on the one hand and arrogant pharisees on the other. I think I know who'll be isolated furthest. . . . especially if one is repentant and the other self-righteous.

173 posted on 09/23/2001 7:56:12 PM PDT by Quix
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To: Quix
I have no problem with a repentant homosexual. But a person who has never come to loathe his homosexual tendencies is not a Christian.

The Wesleyans were the first to make the mistake of regarding unrepentant homosexuals as Christians if they were nice and if they professed faith in Christ.

Now, most of the major denominations are defying God in this way. Please don't make that awful mistake thinking you are just opposing Pharisaic arrogance. That's an altogether different problem.

174 posted on 09/24/2001 10:44:53 AM PDT by the_doc
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To: Quix
The Wesleyans were the first to make the mistake of regarding unrepentant homosexuals as Christians if they were nice and if they professed faith in Christ.

I just didnt want to leave you with the impression that this is totally true

The United Methodists like many main line churches has caved into political pressure..and stopped listening to Gods word..however the Weselyans,the Church of the Nazarene.the Free Methodists ,the Salvation Army..are all holiness Wesleyan Churches and would not admit to membership,let alone ordain unrepentant,practicing homosexuals..

Most of the Wesleyan,holiness family do not consider United Methodists Wesleyan anymore

175 posted on 09/24/2001 12:48:22 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: the_doc
QUITE AGREE
176 posted on 09/24/2001 2:08:08 PM PDT by Quix
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To: RnMomof7
Quite so.

RE all the above. . .

I don't want to encourage tab A in slot Z by any means. Things really do work better the way God designed them.

I do want to caution many believers who tend to look down their haughty noses at other believers about the other believers's WORSE sins--that many times--that is not God's perspective. He lumped cowards in with homosexuals in one Scripture.

Whether it is truly objectively possible for practicing homosexuals to be more loving than SOME practicing heterosexual believers--I'm not strictly sure in stict senses of the key words. But sometimes, it sure seems like it. And I'm not sure how God would view that except to be very grieved over both of them.

I say that in the sense that Love puts the other person's best interests first. Violating God's standards tends to do the opposite whether for upside down lust or arrogance. . . . which is usually the forerunner of all such lusts and other junk.

177 posted on 09/24/2001 2:13:40 PM PDT by Quix
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To: Quix
I believe that God calls ALL of us to be holy...and do note that Revelation says ALL liars will go into the lake of fire..that should be very sobering to everyone
178 posted on 09/24/2001 2:20:13 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: BibChr
Good question. I don't remember when I first read the phrase. But it did stick in my mind.

Love and peace.

179 posted on 09/24/2001 6:57:06 PM PDT by moneyrunner
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To: american arnie james
This article makes some good points. We would be a lot better off and probably have avoided this tragedy if we hadn't ceded so much ground to the evils of atheism, socialism, feminism, homosexuality, fornication, and pornography.

What about covetousness?

180 posted on 09/24/2001 7:10:53 PM PDT by Looking for Diogenes
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To: DJ MacWoW
Mohammed wrote the current version of the Koran...

Are you implying there was a version earlier than Mohammed?

181 posted on 09/24/2001 7:20:03 PM PDT by Looking for Diogenes
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To: Sci Fi Guy
Barry Lynn of Americans for the Separation of church and state is theatening to sue Dr. White. It seems the two had a debate about homosexuality, and Mr Lynn is afraid that James White will make the tapes available to publice

Regarding the James/Lynn debate:
The host congregation for the debate was so distressed by the disrespectful conduct of the debate, that they asked for an apology from White.
http://members.aol.com/presbycmoriches/debate.htm

182 posted on 09/24/2001 8:56:09 PM PDT by Looking for Diogenes
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To: Matchett-PI
It concerns me too that President Bush — whom I support, like, and admire — also omitted those words in the national prayer service. I share your concern.

Dan

183 posted on 09/25/2001 7:11:38 AM PDT by BibChr
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To: Looking for Diogenes
Thanks for the link; very revealing! Looks like another apostate church, desperate to be "liked" by the world, impressed by what impresses the world, embarrassed by Christians who aren't. Shame on them.

Dan

184 posted on 09/25/2001 7:15:36 AM PDT by BibChr
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To: BibChr
People who get too obssesed with any religeon end up behaving just as bad as the Taliban! Once you imerse yourself deep in a religeon, you can not compromise, and you start to think that your religeon is superior to others.
185 posted on 09/25/2001 7:22:17 AM PDT by philosofy123
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To: BibChr
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Corinthians 3:17

bump

186 posted on 09/25/2001 7:41:33 AM PDT by ThinkNot
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To: BMCDA
Thanks for your reply BMCDA.

You have been very cordial in your replies and for that I thank you.

"I accept your beliefs and the reasons you hold them."

I don't understand this statement.You accept my belief? Wouldn't you then claim to be a christian?I'll assume you mean you accept my right to believe what I believe.You accept my reasons? I disagree.

ie: "Of course it's your good right to think so but I can tell you that this is not going to work and not just because this has been done over and over again with no satisfactorily result but because religious teachings/holy books are always subject to interpretation. Therefore if you're skilled enough you can make them mean whatever you want them to mean."

So you see,you do not accept them.However,say I put the bible away and explain to you how I see the world and you decide wether it lines up with what you see?

You also did not address my reasons for believing....you went straight past them as though they were non-existant and that more than once.You now say you accept them.....but in reality you don't.

"In science that's of course an other issue and it's done all the time because that's the way science works but concerning religions that's always a futile venture."

That's a bow you have drawn past the breaking point.It simply isn't true,at least not in the absolute sense you have stated it.

"No, I don't believe I am immune to this, I'm a human after all but I'm aware that it can happen. Therefore I try to question everything I think I'm really convinced of. And I don't see that doubts are strong held convictions. So I just want to make clear, before any misconceptions arise, that I am "not convinced that any god(s) exist" and not "convinced that god(s) don't exist" (and no, it's not the same)."

It's good that you question what you believe,not many do.However,I gave you a reason why I believe what I believe and surely (if you claim to be rational)you must compare it with what you see to determine wether it lines up with reality or not yes?

"I hope you realize that "not being convinced" cannot be a strong held conviction"

What if a person doesn't want to be convinced?.

You are right when you say these things can go on forever.You can site me a ton of web-sites that argue that what I believe is not a sufficient description of reality and I can do likewise.There are some things that can be argued almost endlessly it seems....provided certain things are kept out of the arena of discussion.

Let me put this to you as another reason for beleiving what I believe.

In the field of human competition,there is almost always the need for an umpire...somebody the contestants mentally assent to as being the highest authority in the game.The higher the competion factor and the more there is at stake...the greater the need for the umpire.If the contestants already know the rules and conditions of play (and we'll assume that most who compete are mentally competent enough to understand them) then why can't we simply rely on reason to rule and dispense with the uneccessary intrusion of an umpire?

Isn't it true to say that if anyone has an agenda,then their reasoning can be suspect?

Imagine what might happen if a society adopts (or has it forced upon them) a world-view in which the competition factor simply kept multiplying...(let alone the actual stakes)while at the very same time the reality (and therefore the mental assent) of the umpire kept diminishing?

How long do you believe the Superbowl game would last if the umpire became irrelevant to the players?...the answer to that goes a long way to explaining why the world is like it is.

Assuming the game would continue regardless,eventually those who hold the most physical strength would win,wether that be money,political power,military power,the loudest mouth etc etc etc.In the end numbers would determine what was acceptable....we might not like that (especially considering the 'herd' element)but it is the reality of the situation.

I'll leave it up to you as to wether this lines up with the real world or not.

"No, I don't believe I am immune to this, I'm a human after all..."

LOL...Aren't we all!

Wouldn't it be fair to say that to best be in a position to see reality as it is,warts and all,we need to be in a position where we had no sub-concious agendas lurking around?(wether that's actually possible or not is another matter,but you get my drift yes?)

Roman's 4:16 "Therefore it is of faith(trusting/leaning fully on what Jesus Christ has done through His crucifiction AND resurrection),that it might be by grace(the unmerited favour of God),to the end that the promise might be sure..."

I do believe the bible because it is the best description of the world I see and in particular because of it's profound understanding of the human race.

Thanks again for your reply friend.

I have been candid with you BMCDA,and maybe a little blunt.However I think you will agree that if the bible actually is the message of the creator to His created then we cannot posibly hope to entirely comprehend the scope of what is happening...but we surely must try.

To that end....

"For God so loved the world,that He gave His only begotten Son,that whoever believes on Him should not perish but have everlasting life" (John 3:16)

May God bless you BMCDA

and may God bless America.

187 posted on 09/25/2001 7:50:08 AM PDT by mitch5501 (Jesus is Lord)
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To: BibChr,the_doc,all
#183: "It concerns me too that President Bush — whom I support, like, and admire — also omitted those words in the national prayer service. I share your concern."

Depending upon how familiar he is with those Scriptures he quoted, he may or may not have known that whoever prepared the text of what he was to say, left anything out. I'm fairly certain he probably _trusted_ those with *credentials* who claim to teach God's Word, to supply the texts which would be faithful to the Scriptures.

It was deliberately left out, however, of BOTH presentations .... probably by the same "politically correct" speech writer, who may not even be a "professing" Christian.

Along those same lines, I happened to have my car radio on the night the Hollywood types held their telethon. The man who began the telethon with the "Pledge of Allegiance", deliberately left out the one nation "under God" part. That's when I shut it off.

BTTT

188 posted on 09/25/2001 8:00:27 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (There can be is NO *true* UNITY ... unless it's around *The Truth*.)
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To: All
First thing Jesus said when he began his ministry was, "REPENT." He also spoke to the crowds a certain "Tower of Siloam" which collapsed and killed 18 people, and told the crowd not to think that the people killed were more sinful then others. But he told them, "unless you REPENT, you shall ALL in like manner perish."
189 posted on 09/25/2001 8:02:39 AM PDT by Zorobabel
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To: philosofy123
People who get too obssesed with any religeon end up behaving just as bad as the Taliban! Once you imerse yourself deep in a religeon, you can not compromise, and you start to think that your religeon is superior to others.

I kind of think that people who get too obssesed [sic] with avoding [sic] religeon [sic] end up behaving just as bad as the Taliban! Once you imerse [sic] yourself deep in irreligeon [half-sic], you have no principle beyond your own prejudices, and you start to think that your irreligeon [half-sic] is superior to Jesus.

Dan

190 posted on 09/25/2001 8:42:26 AM PDT by BibChr
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To: BibChr
Looks like another apostate church, desperate to be "liked" by the world, impressed by what impresses the world, embarrassed by Christians who aren't.

The commentary does not concern who was right or wrong in the debate, but rather the breach of debate protocol, and apparently good manners, by White and his fans. Intentional disrespect to an invited guest is just plain bad form. Civility, especially in a church when debating another minister, is not too much to ask. You make the apostacy accusation very easily. I guess you set that threshold very low.

191 posted on 09/25/2001 9:48:36 AM PDT by Looking for Diogenes
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To: Looking for Diogenes
I'm surprised at your apparent naivete. To groups like this, anyone who views Biblical slam-dunks as slam-dunks is rude. Anyone who unapologetically and assertively presses the Biblical viewpoint is rude. That page bears out what I'm saing. I know Barry Lynn, and he's a smarmy, shallow, snide man who stands up hard and solid for evil. I very much doubt the writer's perspective.

Dan

192 posted on 09/25/2001 10:16:31 AM PDT by BibChr
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To: BibChr
Yes, I guess I am naive. It appears that inter-church arguments are common. I came across this website of a ministry that claims White is apostate. It is not surprising that there are not more church going Christians in this country: the preachers seem to enjoy tearing each other down too much.

"The Winner [of the Skull and Crossbones Award] is James White! for changing the grace of God into a "license for immorality" (Jude 4) with the following statement:...
What White thinks is the gospel of grace is really a license for immorality, which Christians are to contend against (Jude 3,4)."
link

193 posted on 09/25/2001 10:44:55 AM PDT by Looking for Diogenes
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To: AlGone2001
But Don't You Dare Tell Us To Repent!

There seems to be very little discussion of this part of the thread title. It deserves better, certainly better than I can render, but...

My take on repentance makes a distinction between self-hatred and sincere regret for one's actions or lack of action. God forgives those who repent. In other words, your participation is necessary in the process of forgiveness.

As a nation, where we've been wrong, we should repent...no we MUST repent to be granted God's grace. It has to happen. If we've done His will, He knows, too.

Do we go off on a "We're so bad, God could never forgive us." funk? No. Repentance and forgiveness are both an end and a new beginning. Realization of error and sin should lead to repentance. Repentance should lead to a new heart that strives to do the things expected of us. "Love the Lord with all our heart, our soul and mind....and love our neighbor as ourselves."

God keeps score, but we're the one's running up the total. He is merciful and willing to forgive...if we're willing to admit it when we're wrong. The need for repentance existed before the WTC attack, it exists now, it will exist tomorrow. We're just not perfect. So, until we are, repentance will be a necessity. Thanks for reading.

194 posted on 09/25/2001 11:01:02 AM PDT by stboz
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To: Looking for Diogenes
You may be looking for Diogenes, but you seem to have more of a knack for finding the head-cases!

No more links! I'm depressed enough! /c8-

Dan

195 posted on 09/25/2001 11:10:59 AM PDT by BibChr
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To: BibChr
We need to lift up the name of Jesus in all that we do. We need to welcome the searching for a spiritual awakening and pray that the revival comes. There is only one name that is Glorified over all the earth and that is Jesus Christ our Lord. This is a spiritual war that is over this country and Thank God we have a born again Christian in the WH. The enemy will have his victories but he is being defeated in churches everywhere. Prayer warriors are critical in this fight.

Pray for GW and NY!

God Bless America

196 posted on 09/25/2001 11:14:41 AM PDT by bray
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To: BibChr
You may be looking for Diogenes, but you seem to have more of a knack for finding the head-cases!

It isn't hard.

I guess I'll just keep going to my old church, which is doubtless also apostate, and leave the theological bickering to those who enjoy it.

197 posted on 09/25/2001 11:25:08 AM PDT by Looking for Diogenes
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To: bray
Amen to every word, and I'd add this one refinement:

You say prayer-warriors. Actually, I think (Peretti and Charismaticism to the contrary notwithstanding) Satan is not terribly intimidated by prayer.

But what he hates is Bible-warriors! Remember, when he tried His moves on the Lord Jesus, Satan was not overcome by naked divine power, nor was he repelled by prayer! How did our Lord respond to Satan?

"It is written!"

"It is written!"

"It is written!"

"It is written!"

Remember, too, that Paul identified only one weapon in the Christian's armory: the sword of the Spirit, which is the WORD OF GOD! (Ephesians 6:17b).

One brother's encouragement.

Dan
Encouragement for New Christians

198 posted on 09/25/2001 11:53:25 AM PDT by BibChr
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To: stboz,BibChr,BMCDA
"God keeps score, but we're the one's running up the total. He is merciful and willing to forgive...if we're willing to admit it when we're wrong. The need for repentance existed before the WTC attack, it exists now, it will exist tomorrow. We're just not perfect. So, until we are, repentance will be a necessity"

Amen!

"There seems to be very little discussion of this part of the thread title."

True enough...sorry Dan.

However, I do believe I am trying to help BMCDA (and hopefully some lurkers)'change his mind' so I assume Dan will indulge me.

grace and peace to you all

God bless

ps:BMCDA I won't be near a 'puter for 4-5 days so I will be a while getting back to you.take care friend.

199 posted on 09/25/2001 12:54:16 PM PDT by mitch5501 (Jesus is Lord)
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To: BibChr
Nails it. This is the apostate church.
200 posted on 09/25/2001 12:58:48 PM PDT by The Grim Freeper
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