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TIME Exclusive: Cropduster Manual Discovered in Suspected Terrorist Hideout
Time.com ^ | September.22,2001 | MASSIMO CALABRESI AND SALLY DONNELLY

Posted on 09/22/2001 3:08:14 PM PDT by Reagan Man

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To: Straight Vermonter
"If someone can poke holes in my theory,"

FAE contain explosives in solution, that's what gives them their punch. It's the contained explosives that result in the whole disbused mass detonating. Straight fuels just burn, there's a flame front from the ignition source. FAE detonations are like knocking in an engine, they don't have a flame front that progresses from the igntion point as normal burn does. The knocks in a car engine are not smooth release of energy with a pushing force, but instantaneous release like a hammer blow.

With FAEs, is the stuff gets ignited before its disbursed, it just burns like napalm and doesn't explode.

101 posted on 09/22/2001 3:56:07 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: DistantVoice, Dog Gone
What you say is true; I read the article myself. Don't make me look it up again, though. :-)
102 posted on 09/22/2001 3:56:39 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: bluefish
Nuke where? We are certainly aware of terrorist nests abroad.

We won't be intimidated into ceasing to eradicate this menace, any more than the V-bombs (?) that Hitler sent upon Britain in WWII caused Britain to withdraw from the war.

103 posted on 09/22/2001 3:56:52 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Travis McGee
When will the "moderate" moslem clerics put out a Fatwa on Osama Bin Laden, as Osama has put out on ALL Americans, military and civilian, using the koran's surya 9-5 as the justifcation from allah for mass killing?

I'm waiting for that too. I haven't seen any positive sign they will. They seem to be either frightened of retaliation by the less moderate Muslims, or they aren't that upset by the killings of thousands of Americans.

104 posted on 09/22/2001 3:57:22 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: poohbah
FLAG
105 posted on 09/22/2001 3:58:12 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Impeach98
It would be great if our Nazi jihadists wore field gray uniforms with coal scuttle helmets, but sadly our Nazi jihadists wear civvies and live among the people while they plot mega murder.

So should we just accept it?

106 posted on 09/22/2001 3:59:21 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Reagan Man
These moslem soldiers are playing us like pianos. They're much more sophisticated about the way our society functions than I thought. They've obviously left little "turds" all across the country to keep everyone on edge.

The most terrifying chemical weapon is, obviously, panic. Second only to hate--and all other surrenders of rationality.

107 posted on 09/22/2001 4:00:04 PM PDT by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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To: bootless
three miles thats less than three minutes till impact,not very cautios at all
108 posted on 09/22/2001 4:00:13 PM PDT by eastforker
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To: vmatt
Price: $49,900
109 posted on 09/22/2001 4:00:24 PM PDT by Rustynailww
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To: FITZ
The manual shows them how to be nice and BLEND-IN. Don't wear a beard,smile when they smile,rent an apartment where neighbors don't know each other, don't break any laws,don't speed...on and on! That is why we need to deport ALL of them. If they "check-out" then they can come back?
110 posted on 09/22/2001 4:00:30 PM PDT by poweqi
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To: spunkets
Hi - I've got a question for you. I've heard from two different sources that (a) we just FAEs during the Gulf War, and (b) that we didn't. Do you know? Thanks...
111 posted on 09/22/2001 4:01:00 PM PDT by bootless
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To: Travis McGee
So I guess we must just wait for each mega murder, in order to not be called (heaven forbid!) intolerant.

Methinks only one such will suffice.... :-(

112 posted on 09/22/2001 4:01:16 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: FITZ
Exactly. Either they have been terrorized into silence, or they really don't disagree with OBL's Fatwa.
113 posted on 09/22/2001 4:01:39 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Impeach98
Oh yes Germans were rounded up including some of my mother's recently arrived relatives. People then knew they at war, they knew many Germans were Nazi sympathizers if not Nazis. They didn't make the assumption every single German who had just entered the US was a friend. You seem to suggest we treat every Arab with great respect, lend them our crop dusters, sell them our chemicals. That way we can't be seen as racists bigots. If they kill us ---oh well, we can just have a nice memorial made at the place that happened.
114 posted on 09/22/2001 4:01:44 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: freedomnews
The 220 pounds of sulfur and 13 gallons of acetone were found in an apartment above a North African fast-food restaurant in central Brussels late Thursday, said Laure Wynands, a spokeswoman for the prosecutor's office.

Also can be used to make nerve gas, if I remember right.

115 posted on 09/22/2001 4:01:46 PM PDT by piasa
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To: FITZ
"...When will the "moderate" moslem clerics put out a Fatwa on Osama Bin Laden.."

Do you mean to say you believed shoeless George when he told us that Islam was a peaceloving religion?

116 posted on 09/22/2001 4:02:52 PM PDT by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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To: eastforker
True. I'm sure there's more to this than is published ... LLSS.
117 posted on 09/22/2001 4:03:18 PM PDT by bootless
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To: F.J. Mitchell
The mountains of Afganistan may prove to be a challenge.I heard a discouraging thing, 82 of Afganistans mtns. are over 4 MILES high,and the skys are not cloudy all day!
118 posted on 09/22/2001 4:03:31 PM PDT by poweqi
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To: bootless
You will not be seeing blimps or banner-tow planes over stadiums for a long time.

I wasn't aware of that NOTAM but am proud to hear of it. I'll definitely remember that if I see a plane approaching a stadium I'm in.

119 posted on 09/22/2001 4:03:56 PM PDT by MississippiMan
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To: eastforker
What kind of gun would it take to down such a plane? (Of course if it goes down you get a nice bio SPLASH but arguably that's better than scattering it far and wide in a mist.)
120 posted on 09/22/2001 4:05:14 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Travis McGee
And there are those freepers who call us "hysterics and bigots" for being a bit suspicious of the arab moslem covert jihadists living freely among us planning mega murder.

Travis as you are well aware there are crop dusting planes based on small fields and in many cases on farms in the United states.

The fly well below radar. Many take off and land on private grass strips. There is no way the air traffic control system could even see them. They don't even know where they are.

They all fly VFR (visual flight rules) and there are zero records as where they are at the moment. We grounded them, then let them resume flying. I think there is a reason.

You will notice that Bush, Powel,and Rumsfeld have not ruled out nuclear weapons. I think there is a strong possibility that Bush has notified all nations that if we are hit with biological weapons we will counter attack with both biological and nuclear weapons.

I suspect they have been told that all people in and around a nation that fostered the people or allowed such an attack to occur would die. They would get insant creametorium.

I think we gounded the planes until all nations were notified. I have litle doubt that Bush sent such messages and that the Arabs are certain that he would do it.

121 posted on 09/22/2001 4:05:59 PM PDT by Common Tator
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Yet even on FR you will be called an intolerant Nazi if you suggest the problem may lie hidden among us, and to avoid the next 9-11 we may have to do more than sit and wait for it.
122 posted on 09/22/2001 4:06:12 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
No one says anything about accepting any anti-US activities.

Some people here seem to forget that we had pretty good relations with the mujahiden in Afghanistan in the 1980s. After the U.S. withdrew (as the Soviets were faltering) a battle royale ensued amongst the various factions and the anti-Western Taliban prevailed being that they were the most militant. The opposition leader assassinated in northern Afghanistan on Setptember 9th was also a "freedom fighter" who did not share the anti-Western extremism of Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.

If you don't view your own comments as ugly prejudice will you at least take note that Muslims were GOP voters in the last election and many Muslim groups including the AMPCC-PAC. A surefire way to harm Republican interests is for us to apply a blanket definition of evil and suspicion to a people who are not evil and not supportive of terrorist networks who seek harm against the U.S.

If you don't believe me will you listen to Grover Norquist?

Bush Was Elected Because of the Muslim Vote

123 posted on 09/22/2001 4:06:52 PM PDT by Impeach98
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To: Reagan Man
Big Bump! Start off by nuking Afganistan! Only something terrible and mighty is going to put the fear of God in this movement. Nuke Saddam too while you're at it.
124 posted on 09/22/2001 4:07:14 PM PDT by abigail2
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To: Common Tator
That is the one way to deal with it.
125 posted on 09/22/2001 4:08:16 PM PDT by piasa
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To: FITZ
I agree . If the protesters want to be of HELP, why don't they go to New York and help pick up some intestines, heads,arms legs and try to match them up!!!!!!!!!
126 posted on 09/22/2001 4:08:59 PM PDT by poweqi
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To: FITZ
Wrong-o

We thus far have treated Arabs and Muslims as we treated Germans in the 1940s. Some were questioned, some were harassed by bigots in this country, but most lived without facing the kind of hostility a couple people on this thread wish now to impose on Muslims.

Had this been the NRA attacking us for supporting Britain I certainly hope the hate posts here would not be advocating the roundup of Irish civilians.

127 posted on 09/22/2001 4:09:29 PM PDT by Impeach98
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To: freedomnews
{{The 220 pounds of sulfur and 13 gallons of acetone were found in an apartment above a North African fast-food restaurant in central Brussels late Thursday, said Laure Wynands, a spokeswoman for the prosecutor's office.

``At face value, it is suspect,'' she said. ``It is rare to have 100 kilos (220 pounds) of sulfur and acetone at home, especially in a snack bar.'' }}

ROFLMCO... WHO writes this stuff?

128 posted on 09/22/2001 4:11:03 PM PDT by cibco
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To: Yellow Rose of Texas, Alamo-Girl
hummm
129 posted on 09/22/2001 4:11:19 PM PDT by amom
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To: Travis McGee
Authorities in Death in Venice also ignore the disease, with disastrous results.
130 posted on 09/22/2001 4:12:22 PM PDT by aristeides (demosthenes@olg.com)
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To: Dog; Travis McGee
The Plague by Albert Camus is a superb existential book, but I found it more valuable a read of human drama and emotion than a how-to for stopping biological terrorism. Actually, The Plague also came into my mind after WTC II because it examines how people faced with tradgedy change their life perspective - i.e. they try assure loved ones how much they love them while they still can.

For a graphic nonfiction book (written like a novel) on viruses, nothing beats THE HOT ZONE by Preston about the Ebola virus.

For biological warfare, there was a frightening book out called BIO-HAZARD by one of the former heads of the Soviet Unions biological weapons program. The Soviet's had worked out many of the kinks for using biological weapons and unfortunately much of their workproduct can't be accounted for.

131 posted on 09/22/2001 4:12:36 PM PDT by True Capitalist
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To: Smittyat90210, Reagan Man
I saw "North by Northwest". I know what those cropdusters can do.....
132 posted on 09/22/2001 4:12:40 PM PDT by Lazamataz
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To: Impeach98
I know you know the difference between the good guys and the bad guys and most here do.

How do you know? The guys in the little boat that came up to the USS Cole before exploding it to smithereens had huge smiles on their faces and were waving. 

They ALL smile real big. 

How do you tell a genuine, heartfelt smile from one of those "I'm-about-to-blast-your-evil-American-a$$!!!" smile? By the way, has Carl Cameron reported this yet? Who believes Time, anyway? I won't believe it until I hear Carl say it with my own ears.

Are we having fun yet?!

133 posted on 09/22/2001 4:13:03 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: MississippiMan
One of the Dulles hijackers rented a Cessna a few times in the week or so before Sept. 11 from a Maryland airport, and flew all round the D.C. area.
134 posted on 09/22/2001 4:15:28 PM PDT by aristeides (demosthenes@olg.com)
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To: Rustynailww
Thanks, I wuz too lazy.
135 posted on 09/22/2001 4:15:40 PM PDT by vmatt
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To: bootless
Re: FAEs used in the gulf. No I don't know, but the FAE ordinance designations can be found at FAS.org. I'd guess summaries of what was dropped might be listed there also.
136 posted on 09/22/2001 4:15:56 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
Do you mean to say you believed shoeless George when he told us that Islam was a peaceloving religion?

I don't believe Islam per se is peace loving, I believe their may be some Muslims who are tired of the killing and the constant wars they seem to find themselves in. If they are we need and want them on our side but he did make it clear----they are either with us or against us. Here on the US border they keep finding Muslims trying to get in the US, some have been picked up by the Mexican government trying to use the routes the illegal Mexicans use, which is not through US customs.

No one yet has told me how I can tell when I see an Arab looking person walking over toward my neighbor's crop dusting plane if they have good or bad intentions. I know calling the FBI on them just because they have a towel on their head or otherwise appear to be Arab nationals is going to be too biased and bigoted.

137 posted on 09/22/2001 4:16:00 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: Common Tator
I think we gounded the planes until all nations were notified. I have litle doubt that Bush sent such messages and that the Arabs are certain that he would do it.

The big question is would the local operatives STILL operate if their home countries were turned into a cinder. If so it would prove nasty trying to catch them all.

For a guy who has not particularly been a militia-head, I am beginning to see why we do need our citizen militias back, double time. According to the first clause of the 2nd Amendment the militias will have to be answerable to their home states. (They'll have to coordinate with the office of homeland defense anyhow, or the state liaisons.) But get them going! I wonder why scenarios like this were not discussed on the zillions of 2nd Amendment threads here???

138 posted on 09/22/2001 4:16:31 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Dog
Re: Sounding like a Clancy novel - have you read Executive Orders yet? Vince Flynn - Transfer of Power - eerie similarities to 9/11/01 events. People coming to house at 7:30 - darn - wanted to follow this thread.
139 posted on 09/22/2001 4:17:14 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Impeach98
Bush Was Elected Because of the Muslim Vote

He won't need it the 2nd time around LOL

140 posted on 09/22/2001 4:17:40 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Reagan Man
bump
141 posted on 09/22/2001 4:18:42 PM PDT by RaceBannon
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To: Lazamataz
North by Northwest cropduster bump.

I was at a conference in the Plaza Hotel in New York a couple of years ago, so I asked the bartender in the Oak Room whether the Oak Room scenes in the movie had been shot there. He didn't have the slightest idea what I was talking about. But I got a videotape of the movie recently, which includes a documentary of the shooting of the movie. Turns out the Oak Room scenes were shot in a facsimile of the bar built in Hollywood.

The cropduster scenes were shot outside Bakersfield in California.

142 posted on 09/22/2001 4:19:18 PM PDT by aristeides (demosthenes@olg.com)
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To: Impeach98
I think you also forget that non-citizens have NO RIGHTS to stay permanently in the US. They are here at our whim, they can be sent back at any time for any reason.
143 posted on 09/22/2001 4:20:30 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: bluefish
"Huh? Nuke 'em where?

I was being facetious, evident in following posts...gotcha! Now I know your paying attention.

144 posted on 09/22/2001 4:21:43 PM PDT by vmatt
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To: Smittyat90210
Just kick these people out of the country.

Simple!

145 posted on 09/22/2001 4:21:48 PM PDT by Bogie
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
While its true, terrorists have upset the normality of American life, lets not forget since the attacks on the WTC/Pentagon took place, our military buildup has thrown the Middle East into complete and utter turmoil. No one in the Middle East knows where America might strike first. Everyone 'over there' is running around pulling their beards out and wondering what will happen next. They're scared shitless!

Will America strike first at the Taliban, or may be Hamas? Perhaps the Muslim Brotherhood, or may be the US will attack the National Islamic Front. Then again, may be our first strike will be aimed at Hizbullah in Lebanon.

The USA is throwing around its own "turds" in the Middle East right now. And its nice to see these anti-American haters get some of their own medicine thrown right back at them!

God Bless America

146 posted on 09/22/2001 4:22:24 PM PDT by Reagan Man
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To: MississippiMan
AOPA.org has updated information on what's going on. I'm sorry that legitimate banner towers and other pilots (like traffic watch) are not able to fly. Many small businesses here at the airport (ours included) were hammered by this. But I do NOT want to see anything flying over a crowd of people.

BTW, Geoff Metcalf, in his Saturday rerun from Thursday, had some critical words for the open-air memorials... and I agree. Not prudent at this time...

147 posted on 09/22/2001 4:22:29 PM PDT by bootless
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To: Plummz
I think this thread and my #134 will interest you.
148 posted on 09/22/2001 4:22:36 PM PDT by aristeides (demosthenes@olg.com)
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To: aristeides
I also picked up on the fact you can see Cary Grant near a sign saying I-47 in the corn field. Well, I know the film was filmed years ago, but I-47 is very short and very near Chicago, and it would have been overtaken by the city even then.
149 posted on 09/22/2001 4:23:06 PM PDT by Lazamataz
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Comment #150 Removed by Moderator


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