Text of Fatwa By Bin Laden Ordering Moslems to Kill Americans

World Islamic Front | 9-23-2001 | Osama Bin Laden

[neutrino]

Good post. And a question I have repeated again and again, with no answer -

If a death fatwa can be pronounced against a novelist, why not against a terrorist - specifically Oscuma bint Larden?

A comment suggested that only the head of a nation/state can issue a fatwa...but on this very board, we learned that Oscuma was commander in chief of armed forces of Afghanistan!

Be that as it may, is there no moslem cleric anywhere, even in the US that will pronounce a death fatwa against Oscuma? And if there isn't, what conclusions are we to draw?

[JeepInMazar]

Like I said, I have no doubt the Koran can be interpreted that way. I have no doubt the Bible can be either.

Yes. But can you please tell me the names of people and organizations who interpret the Bible in "that way". Those who attend church and who quote Bible verses about war and who are actually committing acts of violence? What are these organizations who do this? What churches do their followers go to? Who are the leaders of these movements and can you describe the theology that they ascribe to based on what they say about the Bible? What are the specific acts of violence they are committing?

[aruanan]

a. It seems that if you use the words 'they' and 'them' enough you can generalise any group into anti-americans.

b. And it doesn't mean that you're making one iota of sense, either.

a. No, merely much use of pronouns won't generalize anyone into being anti-American or anything else. It's what "they" actually say that will specifically identify "them" as anti-American.

b. It does if you read in the context provided. Of course, your 'it' is lacking a referent. The point, though, is that although there are plenty of Muslims who don't hew to bin Laden's fatwa against Americans, it doesn't make sense to talk about "true" Islam not condoning bin Laden's actions as though that has any protective effect against those actions. Regardless of whatever "true" Islam teaches, the fact is that there indeed exists a group of people who consider themselves to be representatives of the true Islam who are calling for the murder of Americans as a sign of highest religious duty. This is of greater practical importance than those who consider Islam to be teaching no such thing. From those there is nothing to worry about. Although it's important to be able to distinguish between Muslims who follow bin Laden's fatwa from those who don't, the fact that some do not doesn't make the problem posed by those who do go away.

[aruanan]

Thanks. So, "true" Islam is whatever gets the job done, ie., conquering the non-Muslim world; the praxis is variable, depending on the situation. Sounds a lot like another totalist faith practiced in Russia, China, and elsewhere.

[Travis McGee]

I look forward to your shredding this Fatwa, and will gladly pass along your refutations to all comers.

It is my sincerest belief that American moslem arabs will be our greatest asset in the war against terrorism.

The problem I see though is that apparantly millions of arab moslems DO see Osama as their leader, and WILL act on his false and blasphemous Fatwa. That's why Koranic refutations are so critical.

[JeepInMazar]

I just checked the link you gave. Just a quick glance at the posts show that people are talking about spriritual warfare, not physical acts of violence to promote their religion. Maybe you had a specific post in mind?

Well, start with the Crusades, progress through to the Spanish Inquisition, notice the Holocaust and continue through to some fundamentalist Christians around today.

What Christian fundamentalists are telling their followers to wage a war and commit acts of violence againt their enemies? What organizations are they?

And the holocaust...what is your point? Did Adolph Hitler teach the Bible? Did he use the Bible as his basis to kill Jews? What verses of the Bible did he use to teach this?

[imperator2]

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war",[Surya 9-5]

Every Moslem knows that "Pagans" in the Koran specifically does not refer to Christian or Jews, who are described as "People of the Book" who also worship Allah.

Pagan refer to the pre-Islamic natives of Arabia who were not familiar with Allah (God).

This Fatwa was obviously written in behalf of the Iraqi regime, in an effort to revenge their Desert Storm defeat. Saddam Hussein is the mastermind who must be punished.

[Travis McGee]

The Koran can be interpreted in a fundamental way, justifying violence. So can the Bible.

Perhaps so, but only Moslems are being urged by Mullahs in Mosques to become holy martyrs (shaheeds) by blowing themselves up with as many Israelis or Americans as possible. Don't bother denying it, I have seen and heard the "sermons" preaching "martyrdom" and recruiting shaheeds. If you can show me a parallel TODAY in Christianity or Judeaism, I'd be happy to hear about it.

Yet modern Islam, like modern Christianity, has rejected such an interpretation of their holy books...

Is that so? Can you point out the MAJOR Moslem clerics who have condemned the Osama Fatwa as blasphemous of Allah and the Koran? Millions of Moslems today see Osama as their leader, so presumably they respect his Fatwa. Where are the MAJOR Moslem clerics condemning Osama and his blasphemous Fatwa? Please name them, and what they have said to all Moslems.

[Travis McGee]

"Who cares whether "true" Islam teaches this or that? That's irrelevant when there are lots of people trying to kill you for what they think is true Islam. Those folks aren't going to care what you say about the 'true meaning' of their religion, because they've already decided that its true meaning is that you should die."

Exactly!

[angkor]

Sounds like Osama and Saddam might have a few mutual interests. Saddam was in on this . . .

More than you may think:

THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BOMB:
Who is Ramzi Yousef? And Why It Matters

"Few Americans are aware of the true scale of the destructive ambition behind [the WTC 1993] bomb, this despite the fact that two years later, the key figure responsible for building it--a man who had entered the United Stares on an Iraqi passport under the name of Ramzi Yousef--was involved in another stupendous bombing conspiracy. In January 1995, Yousef and his associates plotted to blow up eleven U.S. commercial aircraft in one spectacular day of terrorist rage. The bombs were to be made of a liquid explosive designed to pass through airport metal detectors. But while mixing his chemical brew in a Manila apartment, Yousef started a fire.

[snip]

"But what if Ramzi Yousef, who eluded the grasp of U.S. authorities until after his second bombing conspiracy, is neither a follower of Sheikh Omar nor a Muslim fundamentalist? That if he is an Iraqi agent?

Stratfor
U.S. May Be Refocusing on Iraq
2000 GMT, 010920

"The Israelis argued from the beginning that Iraq was deeply involved in last week's attacks, but their claims were a bit suspect because of their interest. They badly want Iraqi President Saddam Hussein crushed and his weapons of mass destruction -- existing or potential -- obliterated. They also do not want to see the United States enter into a dependent relationship with Pakistan. With all these factors in mind, Israel's claims of Iraqi culpability were given second place to Afghanistan.

"Clearly U.S. intelligence is now taking a second, and quite public, look at Iraq. There is no question that Hussein is interested in any militant movement that would be prepared to strike at the United States. It is therefore possible that to the extent the attackers required state support, hardly valuable coming from Afghanistan, they would turn to Iraq.

DEBKA-Net-Weekly
WorldNetDaily

Terrorists had top-secret presidential codes

"Air Force One is next," read the message received by the U.S. Secret Service at 9 a.m. Sept. 11, after two hijacked planes struck the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York.

Three minutes later, Secret Service agents grabbed Vice President Dick Cheney from his seat opposite a television set in the White House and hustled him down to the president's emergency operations center, a bunker built to withstand a nuclear blast.

The terrorists' message threatening Air Force One was transmitted in that day's top-secret White House code words. As the clock ticked away, the Secret Service reached a frightening conclusion: The terrorists had obtained the White House code and a whole set of top-secret signals.

[harpseal]

This same type of Fatwah was used by the Mahdi to attack the British in North Africa in the Nineteenth Century. i am not familiar enough with Islamic texts to be specific about the Mahdi prophecies that seem to reccur throughout many of them. Suffice to say there may well be some who believe that OBL fits this description.

We expect rationality from those we have allied with in the past and we may get this or at least the seem to get that even though within their minds is the lagging doubt about maybe OBL really is a messamger of God.

I tend to think that this belief will grow within the Muslim faithful. I hope I am wrong.

I further think that the cells within the USA are hunkered down waiting for another strike when security relaxes a little bit more and it will.

Stay well - stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[TKEman]

BUMP for later reading of this thread. I too would like to see a serious scholarly discussion of this guy's Islamic justifications for his actions.

[Travis McGee]

Right, at this time the remaining terror cells are digging deep, waiting to see who the FBI has captured, and who the FBI has turned.

If the terrorists opsec was a crappy as it seems to have been, there is a good chance that more than 80-90% of the active terrorists will be rounded up.

The other 10-20% will be lurking until the smoke clears though.

[My back yard]

Bumpmark.

[Travis McGee]

They have not God's help with this call, it is denied by the authority of the shari'ah as articulated above. God has issued no such order "to kill the Americans and plunder their money," this is a call of pretenders and brigands to brigandage. Sadly, hundreds of thousands (at least) of Moslems on the streets of Cairo, Karachi etc do not agree with you, because they are holding up large pictures of Osama, and repeating his Fatwa.

Any obedience to this claim of allegiance invokes the shari'ah law of brigandage, and where blood is shed the malefactor muslims, on proper evidence of material facts and judicial verdict, are to be crucified, tied and bound erect, cutting off alternate hands and feet, and left to die. This is binding on all with explicit oath of allegiance pursuant to shari'ah. Okay, then, let's see it happen to the author of this false and blasphemous Fatwa.

I find no evidence of sufficient probity to determine Osama Bin Laden a signatory to this pretense and outlawry. If this has been released by Osama in his name, and it is on cassettes and videos and radical Moslem websites world wide, does that not convince you at all that Osama is the author?

[Travis McGee]

bttt

[Kevin Curry]

Every Moslem knows that "Pagans" in the Koran specifically does not refer to Christian or Jews,

Apparently not "every Moslem." Bin Laden and his henchment clearly reject such an interpretation. And judging from the groundswell of cheers and applause emanating from ordinary Muslims throughout the Middle East, not even many Muslims "know" or believe that.

No, it would appear that only a minority of Muslims rejects the interpretation that bin Laden gives the Koran on this point. I welcome them as allies and encourage all such Muslims living in America to help us root out the terrorists, to wholly deny them aid and sanctuary.

[imperator2]

I should have said "Every intelligent Moslem", which is only about 15% of the total Moslem population.