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The Bottom of the "Slippery Slope"
9/27/01 | Pakrman

Posted on 09/27/2001 5:41:55 PM PDT by Pakrman

I don't post here often, but I have enjoyed reading the thoughts of a great many smart (and some not so smart) people. Most of the time I agree, at least in principle, with most of what is said here. I feel it is time for me to put in my 2 cents worth and get a few things off my chest. I suspect I will be flamed to high heaven, called petty names and branded a commie, pinko rat fink...well then so be it.

I feel that our nation has become a nation of hollow, shallow emotions. We bellow for justice and beg our President to strike our enemies down with all our military might, we wave our flags and sing our songs when we claim to be a nation of solidarity...but I believe we are further removed from justice than ever before.

We claim to be a nation of goodness and prosperity, but goodness cannot be something we show only when a tradedy occurs, goodness must go on and on, each and every day there is not a calamity. Prosperity must apply to all in our nation or it really applies to no one. I have been in the working world for some 25 years now, and I have the same dishonesty, greed and pettiness rise to the top of the corporate ladder, time and time again. A company gets profitable...cut some jobs, make it more profitable.

We are shallow nation, a nation of weak commitment. Bill Mahr of Politically Incorrect was essentially correct, we are a cowardly nation, hiding behind our robotic bombs to do the work we dare not do, lest we shed some of OUR blood. We rattle our sabre and drop a few bombs, then call out for the bar tender, get some hollywood bimbos to bare themselves on the deck our our largest aircraft carrier and call it a victory. Our enemy is willing to take the time to learn to fly an aircraft into a building. How many of YOU would do that?

We will lose this fight against terrorism, for we only practice our own form of terror. We are trying to kill what we have become, we just have better weapons and better looking whores. We are not willing to shed our blood for the cause of right, we don't have a clue what right is anymore. We have become a nation that demands others respect us because of our fancy home appliances, and jazzy television commercials, not because we are doing any good in the world anymore.

We are not a nation of right or justice any longer. We are mired in the filth we helped to create and no amount of violence will every get us clean, no amount of killing can ever make us just. I make no distinctions between Republican and Democrat, we are all just part of the larger machine, the goal is the same, we just take a slightly different approach.

So now we find ourselves at the bottom of the slippery slope we started sliding down many years ago. We will have military units at our airports, our cars, bags, and persons will be searched at random and whenever it suits the government, our speech will be curtailed, our mail, phone and private coversations will be monitored all the time, and it won't make any of us any safer, it won't make the world any safer.

So I have said my piece, some of it at least..so go ahead, tear in to me now, ask me how I would like a long weekend in Kabul or a .9mm sandwich, or some other ugly comment, it won't make any difference, the bombs are gonna fall, kids are gonna die and in the end we won't be a better or safer country.
Thanks


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1 posted on 09/27/2001 5:41:55 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: Pakrman
What I read here is a diffuse disconnected catharsis.
2 posted on 09/27/2001 5:47:54 PM PDT by RLK
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To: Pakrman
I think that America has just been asleep--lulled into complacency by prosperity. The acts of Sept. 11 has changed our nation forever and for the better. Heads up and have a little confidence in the American spirit. ;-)
3 posted on 09/27/2001 5:48:10 PM PDT by lawgirl
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To: Pakrman
I don't post here often

How's about next time posting this in Opionions where all the vanities (are supposed to) go? Thanks.

Regards,


Tony

4 posted on 09/27/2001 5:48:59 PM PDT by TonyInOhio
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To: Pakrman
Your concerns about curtailment of liberty are correct.

But that's the only thing correct.

Prosperity must apply to all in our nation or it really applies to no one.

A baseless assertion of Marxist origin. Liberty must apply to all or it applies to none.
Equality of outcome contradicts all notions of liberty.

We are not willing to shed our blood for the cause of right, we don't have a clue what right is anymore.

Do not project your own inadequencies on others.

5 posted on 09/27/2001 5:49:12 PM PDT by Storm Orphan
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To: Pakrman
You need to read more
6 posted on 09/27/2001 5:53:14 PM PDT by JmyBryan
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To: Pakrman
I agree with you about some things, not about others. We certainly are a weak nation in some ways. I think we have too many left wing turncoats if not outright traitors among our midst.

I don't believe in all of the sometimes hollow boasting and bragging and verbalized threats. I was always taught that bragging or boasting was bad manners. I believe in quiet resolve and not telling a lot of people what your doing until the ceililng falls in on them. I believe in walking quietly and carrying a big, big stick, semi-automatic, or full automatic. I don't believe in bragging. It's very gauche. Action, and the death of our enemies, not words.

Yes, I'm afraid we won't do anything or that it will be a pipsqueak, ineffective and show bizzy, public relations action rather than a long term solution that results in the death of islamic fundamentalist terrorism and hatred of the West and America. It will depend on Bush and his cabinet's courage, resolve, principles, ethics, values and manhood to follow up with long term answers rather than temporary sops.

This country is being destroyed from within by the leftists and tratiors in the media and universities.

7 posted on 09/27/2001 5:57:55 PM PDT by garyhope
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To: Pakrman
Wrong on a few points, Pakrman. We are attacked precisely because of our goodness and prosperity and our willingness to shed our blood in foreign lands for a just cause. Our people are out there openly while our cowardly enemy hides behind the long skirts of the Taliban.

BTW, what is YOUR proposed solution. I don't think I saw it in your post.
8 posted on 09/27/2001 6:03:09 PM PDT by Chi-townChief
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To: Pakrman
We have become a nation that demands others respect us because of our fancy home appliances,
and jazzy television commercials, not because we are doing any good in the world anymore.

Um, I notice at every world disaster, the first people there are Americans.

Not that we should be forced to pay for it through tax-supported foreign aid, but I think
you are quite ignorant.

9 posted on 09/27/2001 6:08:21 PM PDT by Storm Orphan
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To: Chi-townChief
Sounds like you may be describing yourself. I am daily impressed by the goodness of the people around me. I think you may need to get out more, go to church, volunteer.
10 posted on 09/27/2001 6:08:21 PM PDT by cajungirl
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To: Pakrman
We have become a nation that demands others respect us

Actually I think are primary beef is that we would like to
be horribly murdered less frequently. Yes, that flag
burning, Death to America chanting stuff sometimes gets on
my nerves but frankly I'm starting to be more concerned with the
death and destruction bit.

the bombs are gonna fall, kids are gonna die and in the end we won't be a better or safer country

You say people gonna die?

OK Jar-Jar here's the deal:

Lots of people are trying to kill us.

If we bomb them they will probably die.

Dead people are rarely very dangerous and the chances
that there rotting corpse can still harm us is greatly reduced.

Therefore we are safer.

Class Adjourned.

11 posted on 09/27/2001 6:11:39 PM PDT by avg_freeper
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To: Pakrman
Place your replies on threads they will be appropriate.

Don't save them up like this.


Jump in, it only hurts for a little while.

12 posted on 09/27/2001 6:19:17 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: Pakrman
Prosperity must apply to
all in our nation or it really applies to no one.

If I prosper, I prosper.  If you sit on your
clymer, you don't.  Prosperity doesn't
apply.  It results.

13 posted on 09/27/2001 6:22:46 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Pakrman
It's all over. Not much left to do but roll over, die, and rot. Thank you for your concern.
14 posted on 09/27/2001 6:23:27 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: Pakrman
"I suspect I will be flamed to high heaven, called petty names and branded a commie, pinko rat fink...well then so be it." You got that part right. I cannot believe people like you exist in America. What a putz.
15 posted on 09/27/2001 6:59:59 PM PDT by zip
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To: lawgirl
What spirit would that be - the spirit of the right which harbors ill will twords those that oppose it - or the spirit of the left which is no better - which spirit? - your idea of the American spirit, or someone elses? There is no ONE American spirit, no ONE American ideal, there never was, there never will be, by virtue of the people that make up this country, there never can be

Pakrman
16 posted on 09/27/2001 7:09:33 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: Pakrman
Do you want some prozac?

Seriously, your generalizations have some truth, but you're watching too much TV. Your views would be true if you judged the country on tv, but does it truly fit the reality of what you see in your own neighborhood?(unless, of course, you live in Berkely)

The heroism of the firefighters is nothing new: I have seen local men who are volunteer fire fighters, who risk their lives running to car wrecks and house fires. I know "hot shots" who spend weeks on the line fighting forest fires. I know EMT's, doctors and nurses who put up with abuse, blood, guts, and even being shot at to serve the sick and injured. And how many simple actions go unnoticed everyday, neighbors who bring food for their sick neighbors, spouses who nurse a sick or handicapped spouse or child, women who refuse to abort a child even after pressure from boyfriends or parents, and who work while being both father and mother, and moms who pinch penneys to stay at home and home school on one income, when it would be more glamourous to work and let a daycare center do diaper duty.

The best thing about this terrible deed is that the elite are now recognizing the wholesome goodness of the average American...

17 posted on 09/27/2001 7:11:49 PM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: zip
"What a putz."
Not bad...not too creative
I would have thought that big right-wing brain could do better than putz

"I cannot believe people like you exist in America"
People like me? People who disagree with you and what this country has become?
18 posted on 09/27/2001 7:12:54 PM PDT by Pakrman
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Pakrman
Well, that was your WRWC insult, pakrman. Cherish it. Now, how about trying to respond (constructively, I hope) to some of the very good counterpoints that were raised by Freepers here?
20 posted on 09/27/2001 7:25:19 PM PDT by Post Toasties
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To: Storm Orphan
Until the playing field is level, there will always be a great many dividing lines in the society - don't try to tell me that everyone in the country "plays fair" and everyone has exactly the same OPPORTUNITY as everyone else - that is just not true and you know it.
21 posted on 09/27/2001 7:25:47 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: LadyDoc
So we are going to follow up the "wholesome goodness of the average American..." with...what? Some bombs, bullets a hollow trial in some courtroom?
We have been playing world cop so long, a bomb here, a small incursion there, that it only makes sense that at sometime, somplace, someone would get mad enough to strike back.
We know we are "right" Our enemies know their "right" - So what are we going to try to do, hack away at them until...until what?

For every one we kill, ten more will stand up to take their place, then what? Kill some more.

God said, "thou shalt not kill", I think he meant that those words applied to each and every day, not just when we find it convienient.
22 posted on 09/27/2001 7:32:54 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: Pakrman
Why do you hate this country so? I mean, someone so upset with it surely would simply leave and find somewhere he was happy, no? Listen, pal, nobody's forcing you to stay. If all you can do is whine, SHOO! It just bores and annoys people of good will.
23 posted on 09/27/2001 7:35:10 PM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Kevin Curry
I never said I don't have concern, nor did I every imply that it is over and done with, I am concerned with continuing violence that will get us no where.
We are going to lose some more liberties, make no bones about that, but that really won't make anyone safer, not us not our allies.
24 posted on 09/27/2001 7:35:59 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: dantm58
"We owe nothing to anyone who isn't willing to earn it. As a nation we are more than willing to help those who aren't able to do it on their own, but we are not going to make everyone prosperous, no matter what. Socialism can't do that either "

So we throw band-aids at bullet holes and consider our conscience clear?
25 posted on 09/27/2001 7:40:45 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: Pakrman
By the way, what upsets you more, that we might win this war, or lose? c'mon, Turbo, let's hear an answer!
26 posted on 09/27/2001 7:44:37 PM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Pakrman
By the way, I'm military, and not only is my conscience clear, I sleep like a baby. How about you? Ever serve your country? Well?
27 posted on 09/27/2001 7:48:00 PM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Storm Orphan
"We are not willing to shed our blood for the cause of right, we don't have a clue what right is anymore. Do not project your own inadequencies on others. " What inadequencies would those be? Is my difference of opion an inadequency to you?

What is right about supplying arms to one side or another in a civil war in a foreign country. What? Is it the logic, of "if we don't do it someone else will?"
Fixing foreign elections
disposing of people who have different politics than we do...what is so right about those things. We have been doing those things and more than likely will continue to do those things and worse, so how can we be so right.
28 posted on 09/27/2001 7:48:26 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: Pakrman
God said, "thou shalt not kill", I think he meant that those words applied to each and every day, not just when we find it convienient. Posted by Pakrman You can't even quote God accurately, so how do you expect to be understanding the world around you? Turn off the TV, stop playing whenever you can get off work, and go volunteer to help someone else, like at a nursing home or a soup kitchen. Your whine is terribly hollow and most telling of your state of life ... but what you rail against isn't the true nation around you. Whining changes nothing but the sound level in the room. Get a life.
29 posted on 09/27/2001 7:49:02 PM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: Long Cut
That this war will never end...my children, my grandchildren will be fighting this war, and will get worse not better.
When we kill one of them, 10 more will stand up to take their place...how many are we willing to kill?
When I was growing up I believed that world would get better and better, safer and everyone would be able to share the blessings I had been given. They would be able to share, not because they were God fearing Americans, but because they were people, human beings like me.
30 posted on 09/27/2001 7:52:58 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: Pakrman
"Until the playing field is level, there will always be a great many dividing lines in the society"

There will always be dividing lines. We are individuals, and any attempt to define the ideal life for 'us' will be oppressive.
31 posted on 09/27/2001 7:53:12 PM PDT by gjenkins
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To: MHGinTN
So God said it was ok to kill...whenever we want?
32 posted on 09/27/2001 7:54:54 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: Pakrman
Man, no sweat. We MEN will protect your childeren and grandchildren. We have LOTS of ammo and even more guts. most importantly, we do not doubt ourselves or live in fear. No one promised anyone peace outside a box, anyway. But my initial questions are still unanswered...
33 posted on 09/27/2001 7:58:18 PM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Long Cut
"ask me how I would like a long weekend in Kabul "
It's ironic how people with a differnt opinion suddenly hate this country and should go someplace else.
Sorry to dissapoint you but I am staying, and voting and going to make my opinion heard when I feel is is appropriate. Also, I don't hate this country. I just want it to keep getting better.
34 posted on 09/27/2001 8:00:18 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: Pakrman
Oh, yeah, the things which did this weren't people. They were animals, dogs. Don't attach YOUR ideas of humanity to them.
35 posted on 09/27/2001 8:00:41 PM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Long Cut
"No one promised anyone peace"

I thought we were supposed to try at least..oh I know, we didn't start this (or did we) but we sure are going to finish it.
36 posted on 09/27/2001 8:02:38 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: Pakrman
Prosperity must apply to all in our nation or it really applies to no one

It doesn't work that way. Never has, and never will. Life - including economic life - can be described by some form of normal distribution curve. Thus, there will always be rich and poor.

Those companies that cut workers to become more profitable may well be making others wealthier by upping the stock price.

37 posted on 09/27/2001 8:05:03 PM PDT by neutrino (Neutrino)
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To: Pakrman
Just as I thought. Hates the country (obvious from the original post), but shucks! He's going to stay, anyway, and enjoy the benefits of being an American (voting his conscience). Isn't it nice that you get to do that, and guys like me get to PROTECT you, Pac-man? You are not only a coward, you are also a hypocrite.
38 posted on 09/27/2001 8:05:30 PM PDT by Long Cut
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To: avg_freeper
"Lots of people are trying to kill us. If we bomb them they will probably die. Dead people are rarely very dangerous and the chances that there rotting corpse can still harm us is greatly reduced. Therefore we are safer."

Are we?
Until their children grow up and learn to hate our children
Then what, our children kill their children...and this crap stops where?
39 posted on 09/27/2001 8:06:22 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: Pakrman
I'm afraid your depression is getting the best of you.
40 posted on 09/27/2001 8:09:42 PM PDT by paul51
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To: Pakrman
Equality before the law is the only guarantee you get.

If you don't succeed in life, that is your fault.

41 posted on 09/27/2001 8:10:53 PM PDT by Storm Orphan
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To: Pakrman
I will never understand how so many people got suckered by this "peace" crap. Get over it. It has never existed. The way of the world is conflict. Sorry to burst your balloon, but how else save competition can anything develop strength and stamina? It is simply a fact of existence that the Peace Pansies (PP's) prefer to wish away, and in the process of fantasising, endanger others.
42 posted on 09/27/2001 8:11:03 PM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Long Cut
I would fight if called upon to do so, but I do believe that it is an endless fight - a fight that no one wins - we are not going to blow up the entire middle east and the more we kill, the more folks will step up to take us on.

And since this is still a free country, for a while at least, So yes I will stay, and I will enjoy the blessings that this country has to offer, but just because I am different that you are, does not make me a coward, nor a hypocrite - it just makes me different, a person with different concerns, different dreams, different plans for the future.
43 posted on 09/27/2001 8:11:23 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: Pakrman
God said, 'Thou shalt not murder' ... you need to read more deeply and broader if you're gonna use up bandwidth like this.
44 posted on 09/27/2001 8:12:43 PM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: paul51
I'm not depressed..not at all - in fact I am quite enjoying myself. Thanks for your concern though
45 posted on 09/27/2001 8:12:55 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: MHGinTN
I believe that word on my church wall is kill.
But I suppose you can read a lot into that if you want.
46 posted on 09/27/2001 8:14:41 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: Storm Orphan
"Equality before the law is the only guarantee you get. "
and you honestly think that EVERYONE who goes before a court gets equal treatment?
47 posted on 09/27/2001 8:16:01 PM PDT by Pakrman
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To: Pakrman
Those blessings you refer to were bought with blood, in war. By people who loved this nation more than you obviously do. So you'll serve if called? Don't do us any favors. Like I said, we'll protect you despite your opinions. Enjoy wrapping yourself in that "blanket of liberty", sport.
48 posted on 09/27/2001 8:16:17 PM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Pakrman
And sorry, but you are indeed a coward and hypocrite. You do have a right to your opinions, but they define you as well.
49 posted on 09/27/2001 8:19:03 PM PDT by Long Cut
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To: neutrino
"making others wealthier by upping the stock price. "
and enlarging the divides in this country.
I'm not saying Capitalism is wrong, not at all, I am saying that there a lot of folks who do, and are real unhappy with the system

We can't just say to heck with them, let them find another country, we have to deal with that issue at some point.
50 posted on 09/27/2001 8:19:20 PM PDT by Pakrman
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