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Joe 6-pack's Questions for Liberals
Self ^ | don't remember | self

Posted on 09/29/2001 7:44:31 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack

Our ranks have been joined by many as of late, due no doubt, to recent events. As we carry our battle forward, here are a few arrows for your quivers:

"Joe 6-pack's Questions for Liberals:"

1. If, conceding the liberal argument, homosexuality is a genetic predisposition, and a test becomes available to let expectant mothers know if their, "fetus," is predisposed to homosexuality, should that mother be allowed to abort the "fetus," on that basis? If she would abort a "homosexual fetus," does that constitute a "hate crime?" Does preventing her from doing so impose on a woman's right to choose?

2. If we were not meant to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?

3. Suppose you and one other person were shipwrecked on a desert island, not under the jurisdictional law of any state and/ or country. Is it morally right for that person to kill you, or you to kill that person to stretch the food supply? If not, what makes it morally wrong?

4. If sexual activity of any sort is "ok," provided it is between consenting adults, does this include incest between children over 18 and their parents? If not, why? Why not... 17? 16? 15? 14?

5. If the government can arbitrarily set the minimum wage at $5.35 an hour, why not set it at $200.00 an hour? Wouldn't this improve the lot of the poor and lower working class? To what degree should the employer be able to determine the value of labor?

6. If you over-paid a shop owner $20.00 for a new carpet cleaner, would you not expect a refund or credit? Would you consider it theft if the business kept the overpayment without refunding or crediting you? Does not, an anticipated multi-billion dollar surplus indicate an overpayment on the part of the American taxpayer?

7. If your 23-year old daughter had an internship with a major corporation, and had spent her summer on her knees, under the desk of the married CEO, would you demand his resignation, or support his retention because he had been a "good," CEO? What if the CEO lied outright about the incident in a sexual harassment lawsuit filed by your daughter?

8. Is it truly and logically possible to be governed by our consent without ultimately being given the resort of arms? How is it possible that a human can honestly and legitimately consent without owning the means to refuse?

9. What paragraph(s) of the Constitution outline the responsibilities of the Department of Education?

10. If we, as a nation and political system have no moral superiority over nations and governments, why do we spend public monies on maintaining memorials to those that have died in order to preserve and spread our way of life? Should we no longer fund these projects?

11. If reparations for past wrongs can be demanded by the descendants of the victims from the descendants of the perpetrators, should native Americans be named as defendants in law suits against the tobacco industry? If, as many Afro-centrist scholars contend, Ancient Egyptian Civilization was the product of black africans, are not the descendants of Israelite slaves who built the pyramids owed reparations?

12. If one maintains that Darwinian evolutionary theory should be taught as fact, and at the exclusion of all other theories in public schools, one must subscribe to the notion of "survival of the fittest." If one believes that, "survival of the fittest," is a natural, evolutionary process, does the Endangered Species Act set a dangerous precedent in man's interference with nature? Wouldn't the artificially protracted preservation of a species destined for extinction result in an ecological catastrophe?

13. If you knew for a fact that a person was HIV positive, would you allow your teen-ager to have sexual intercourse with that person if they promised to use a condom they got from the school nurse? Would you have intercourse with someone you knew was HIV+, as long as you used a condom?


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
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Dustin' off an oldie...
1 posted on 09/29/2001 7:44:31 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: JoeSixPack1
Seen this?
2 posted on 09/29/2001 8:14:27 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: Ouroboros
a little bumplist help here??
3 posted on 09/29/2001 8:16:33 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: Joe 6-pack
Oldie but a goodie, Joe...
BTTT... Regards,
4 posted on 09/29/2001 8:24:12 AM PDT by Wings-n-Wind
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To: glock rocks
here's another one I wrote...
5 posted on 09/29/2001 8:24:17 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: Joe 6-pack
Bumpage.........

This is further proof that the interior of a mind this complex needs redecorating..:-)

6 posted on 09/29/2001 8:40:01 AM PDT by JoeSixPack1 (thereisgovtmoneyavailabletohelpyouthruthis)
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To: Joe 6-pack
The minimum wage argument is an excellent one. You could arbitrarily raise the minimum wage to whatever you wanted and the prices of goods and services would rise in exact proportion to whatever you set it to.
7 posted on 09/29/2001 8:46:14 AM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: Joe 6-pack
Just ONE flaw in this list.

LOGIC!


8 posted on 09/29/2001 8:52:52 AM PDT by Falcon4.0
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To: JoeSixPack1, Joe 6-pack
Now there's a pair to draw to. (bump)
9 posted on 09/29/2001 8:53:51 AM PDT by jo6pac
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To: SamAdams76
My biggest problems with minimum wage and Child labor laws are not so much economic, but cultural. By restricting low income, supplementary jobs, we greatly inhibit our ability to instill our youth with a work ethic. Do you remember when you'd pull into a service station, get your window washed, and have your oil checked at no charge? When's the last time that happened to you? Wonder why that went away? If and when that happens these days, I tip liberally, though it used to be expected, not too many years ago.
10 posted on 09/29/2001 8:55:20 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: jo6pac, Joe SixPack1
It doesn't get any better than this!
11 posted on 09/29/2001 8:56:38 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: Joe 6-pack
14. If teaching the proper use of birth control leads to fewer unwed mothers, why wouldn't the teaching of the proper use of firearms lead to fewer shootings?
12 posted on 09/29/2001 9:06:41 AM PDT by groanup
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To: groanup
Eddie Eagle BUMP!!
13 posted on 09/29/2001 9:08:10 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: Falcon4.0
"Just ONE flaw in this list.

LOGIC!"

Understood...confronting a liberal with logic can be like trying to teach a fish to ride a bicycle. However, at a minimum, it usually gets them to shut up, and that, in and of itself, is a worthy objective.

15 posted on 09/29/2001 9:13:00 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: Joe 6-pack
Joe, upon reading this thread, my mind was filled with imgaes of an liberal android beginning to smoke from its artificial brain, as it tries to reason out the stances it had taken in debates. Thanx, I needed that!
16 posted on 09/29/2001 9:19:02 AM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: groanup
Very good on the gun control. Need to add pithy arguments against the current crop of peaceastani crowd, now, too.
17 posted on 09/29/2001 9:21:58 AM PDT by americalost
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To: jerky
I will try to answer some of these #1. A woman should be able to abort for any reason-

#3. I would think its morally wrong to kill another in the situation you described. The reason is that I think it is wrong to kill another except in extreme circumstances- self defense, war time

Correct me if I'm wrong, but do I see a One Eyed Jack here?

18 posted on 09/29/2001 9:26:32 AM PDT by shiva
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To: jerky
#8. It certainly is possible to be governed with consent without the populace being armed. Many Western democracies are governed in such a fashion.

Where, England? The people are subjects. Canada? Ditto. Are you answering these rhetorical questions to spark arguments, or did you not understand the gist of the post?

19 posted on 09/29/2001 9:26:57 AM PDT by americalost
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To: jerky
I sniff libertarianism here. That's generally o.k. by me, but your advocacy of abortion rights makes your position untenable. Read this , then come back and argue about individual rights.

As to the minimum wage issue, my point is, whether the gov't raises the minimum wage a dollar or five hundred dollars, it is arbitrary and severely impact upon the rights of the employer/ entrepreneur to value labor in a free market. One can only pay an employee a percentage of what that employee's skills or labor bring in, lest the employer take a loss. Mandated minimums ultimately result in an employer going out of business due to cost/ benefit inequities. If you were my employee, and you were directly responsible for bringing in $6.00 per hour to my business, yet, I was spending $8.00 x hour for your management, insurance, administration, salary, benefits, etc., I'm actually losing money to keep you employed! I'd be out of business, and you'd be out of a job, and our clientele would be out of a service if your wage, the worth of your labor, were defined externally, outside of the market.

As to the concept of government by consent, you're way out there. Human history, indeed, 20th Century history, demonstrates a pattern wherein governments try to dominate individuals. Anyone who believes he is living freely, without the means to resist domination, is fooling himself.

20 posted on 09/29/2001 9:30:59 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: MHGinTN
MHG,

Gimme a hand and utilize your most excellent bump list!

21 posted on 09/29/2001 9:32:21 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: jo6pac, Joe 6-pack
There can be ONLY one....

Roman Candles at 3 paces..!!
Screaming "OUCH, THAT'S HOT" is not an option!!

22 posted on 09/29/2001 9:34:46 AM PDT by JoeSixPack1 (MOELARRY&CURLY)
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To: Joe 6-pack
bttt
23 posted on 09/29/2001 9:35:18 AM PDT by Drew68
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To: JoeSixPack1
This must be the "Gathering." I shined my sword just this morning (wife's back in Korea ya' know.)
24 posted on 09/29/2001 9:40:09 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: Joe 6-pack
BUMP
25 posted on 09/29/2001 9:45:16 AM PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Joe 6-pack
BUMP
26 posted on 09/29/2001 9:45:17 AM PDT by FReethesheeples
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To: Joe 6-pack
I shined my sword just this morning

No comment...hehehehe

BTTT

27 posted on 09/29/2001 9:51:08 AM PDT by JoeSixPack1
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: Joe 6-pack
Bump! Bookmark! And a 21 paintball gun salute!
29 posted on 09/29/2001 10:00:02 AM PDT by Captainpaintball
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To: Northman
"You should research the actual definitions of liberalism and conservatism instead of trying to define them for yourself."

Thanks for telling others what they should do, and how they should define their world views...you're a liberal, and not in the truest sense of a Nat Hentoff, but rather in the modern mode of dicky gephardt.

30 posted on 09/29/2001 10:05:40 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: Joe 6-pack
Wouldn't the artificially protracted preservation of a species destined for extinction result in an ecological catastrophe?

clubbing salmon comes to mind. another great article. thanks for the bump.

31 posted on 09/29/2001 10:10:22 AM PDT by glock rocks (fmcdh)
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To: Northman
Just a few comments on your reply:

"3. "Thou shalt not kill."

I think you mean Thou Shalt not murder.

"8. Every human being has the means to refuse. Gandhi showed us that you can overthrow the most powerful government on Earth by simply refusing to give them power over you. Boris Yeltsin and the people of Moscow showed that they had the means to refuse when they faced down the attempted coup in 1991 without a single weapon on their side."

This is only true to the degree that the 'governing body' feels restrained, for whatever reason. Perhaps law, morality, or fear of repurcussions can pressure a government to deal with dissenters in such a manner as the examples you cite. However, when those governing fail to yield to such pressures catastophe is inevtiable. No such pressures succeeded in stopping the evil of Stalin, Hitler, Pol-Pot, or any number of other 20th century governments.

"I'm not sure -- but it wouldn't exist if the Supreme Court said it wasn't constitutional."

The SCOTUS has forgotten it's role in our 'checks and balances' scheme. When it is complicit in the unConstitutional activites of the legislature then our Nation is in grave danger.
32 posted on 09/29/2001 10:27:31 AM PDT by Texas_Jarhead
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To: Joe 6-pack
I got my window washed yesterday...But I had to make my wife get out and do it
33 posted on 09/29/2001 10:27:59 AM PDT by SwankyC
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To: SwankyC
"I got my window washed yesterday...But I had to make my wife get out and do it."

I hope your oil level is o.k. Most women I know consider engine oil an optional accessory, and generally treat their men's dip-sticks far too casually.

34 posted on 09/29/2001 10:36:47 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: Northman
Gandhi showed us that you can overthrow the most powerful government on Earth by simply refusing to give them power over you.

Do you really believe this? If this had been Nazi Germany, a single round would have ended Gandhi's non-violent protest. A government that doesn't want to allow disent will not, unless the people make them and can stop violence against the disenters!

35 posted on 09/29/2001 10:42:38 AM PDT by dpa5923
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To: jerky
#9. The constitution does not specifically call for the Dept. of Education. Or for that matter a Dept. of Veterans Affairs, or Agriculture, or Commerce. It also does not specifically ban them either.

Au Contraire! The constitution banned all that noise. It was that way for about 150 years - until FDR showed up. The Supreme court under FDR threw out many goofy laws. FDR tried to subvert the constitution to do an end run around the contitionalists in the court. Then suddenly, the supreme court began to see things his way. They found all sorts of "penumbras" that did not exist before.

Up to that time, the General Welfare clause was a worthy statement in the constitution and was regarded with a bit of reverence. After FDR, it was regarded as the gateway to the ever expansion of governemnt. The socialists had won the title of definers of what is equal, just, constitutional, etc. without a shot fired!

The "rights" of the federal government were held to a finite measure up to FDR. After FDR, the federal government could have no bounds. That is were we are at now. Those idiots in Washington moan about not having enough money to spend, as if $2 trillion dollars is not enough.

Here is an excellent reference article

I side with libertarians in the need for constitutional reform - that is, to view the federal government as it it was designed to be regarded. The reference then to "the Department of Education" is with this in mind. Your answer is truly a liberal answer. Why is it that most liberals are happy having there lives micro-managed from a small committee in Washington?

36 posted on 09/29/2001 1:09:37 PM PDT by VRW Conspirator
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To: Northman
FYI, Joe, your definition of liberal is way, way off. Not all liberals believe in evolution, abortion, atheism, homosexuality, pedophilia, big government, and so on. I'm happen to believe in evolution and I am also a devout Christian, for example. You should research the actual definitions of liberalism and conservatism instead of trying to define them for yourself.

Perhaps Joe's definitions are way off for democrats but I do not think so far off for today's liberals. The leadership of the Dem party has been overrun by Leftists. The difference? -Primarily a conscience. The Leftists who hide behind the cloak of so-called liberalism are the nearest things to communists.

I was a registered Democrat a long time ago, as was Ronald Reagan, as was Charlton Heston, as was my father. The one thread we have in common is that the democratic party had left us. And, where did they go?

I cannot fathom why a devout Christian would vote for the same people who are dead set on keeping abortion legal. I cannot fathom why rights as defined as a gift from God are so maligned.

37 posted on 09/29/2001 1:35:41 PM PDT by VRW Conspirator
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To: Northman
"Gandhi showed us that you can overthrow the most powerful government on Earth by simply refusing to give them power over you"
No, he did not. He tried to, but all he did was show
how to be hungry and get walked on.
"And smile all the while"
38 posted on 09/29/2001 1:45:38 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: Joe 6-pack
Joe, joe, joe. Jerky-off isn't spewing libertarianism. I love your questions, but those are more libertarian than his "answers".
39 posted on 09/29/2001 1:51:11 PM PDT by jammer
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To: jerky
#5. In theory the government could set the minimum wage at 100 thousand an hour. But then the fear that conservatives have about raising the minimum wage- loss of jobs- would actually come true. That fear, however, does not result when you raise the minimum wage a few dollars over one or two years. Raising the minimum wage too much would not be good for anyone- but raising it a little would help the poor to some degree.

The minimum wage does destroy jobs, even when it's set at that level.

40 posted on 09/29/2001 2:02:29 PM PDT by xm177e2
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To: Joe 6-pack
bump
41 posted on 09/29/2001 2:10:45 PM PDT by PA Engineer
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: jerky
The Constitution doesn't ban things it authorizes them. It does not authorize a Department of Education, hence the Department of Education is UnConstitutional.
43 posted on 09/29/2001 3:53:26 PM PDT by ewchil
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To: Joe 6-pack
1. If, conceding the liberal argument, homosexuality is a genetic predisposition, and a test becomes available to let expectant mothers know if their, "fetus," is predisposed to homosexuality, should that mother be allowed to abort the "fetus," on that basis? If she would abort a "homosexual fetus," does that constitute a "hate crime?" Does preventing her from doing so impose on a woman's right to choose?

A Leftist would side-step the issue by banning tests that would determine the "gay predisposition" of a fetus, as being a "hate crime".

44 posted on 09/29/2001 4:04:51 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor
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To: Northman
5. The government can't "arbitrarily" set the mininum wage at any level; there has to be popular support for the proposed legislation, and the legislation has to stand up to challenges in the court system. I believe the marketplace is the best mechanism to control the value of labor, however. If a company won't pay a living wage to their employees, I think the employees should abandon the company in droves and leave it without a workforce. I also think consumers should refuse to buy the products made by that company.

There is a direct relationship between a company's labor costs and the prices they must charge for their products to stay in business. So it happens every day that consumers get to choose between, for example "Brand A" which is listed as "made in USA by union labor" and equally-good-but-much-cheaper "Brand B" which is made in Indonesia by $10/day peasants

Most people look for price and quality, and don't care about the labor force which made it

The facts of life are that employers go for the cheapest labor, and labor tries to get jobs with the highest-paying employers.

If an area's labor force is cheap-but-competant, lots of employers will locate themselves there. Once close-to-full-employment is reached, labor will start job-hopping to the highest-paying employers, and wages will get bid up. But if you artificially set wages high to begin with, employers will have to incentive to relocate there, and unemployement will stay high there

45 posted on 09/29/2001 4:16:22 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor
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To: jerky
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

I didn't see "education" delegated to the US anywhere.

46 posted on 09/29/2001 4:22:08 PM PDT by copycat
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To: Northman
8. Every human being has the means to refuse. Gandhi showed us that you can overthrow the most powerful government on Earth by simply refusing to give them power over you. Boris Yeltsin and the people of Moscow showed that they had the means to refuse when they faced down the attempted coup in 1991 without a single weapon on their side. The revolutions across Eastern Europe in 1989 showed that the people can destroy the most totalitarian governments simply by gathering and protesting without firing a single shot. A gun cannot secure freedom - that can only be secured when the people want it.

1) Ghandi won over the British because the British public back home would not have approved of harsh repressive measures on non-violent protestors. Nazi Germany would not have cared

2) Yeltzin and the Eastern European revolutions succeeded because of a general discontent with the status quo, which included the members of the armed forces. The armed forces would not have tolerated their own relatives being shot at.

3) The China Tienamin Square revolt initially succeeeded when the local military forces refused to fire upon their own countrymen. It was crushed when troops from far away were brought in, who felt no kinship with the locals

47 posted on 09/29/2001 4:22:44 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor
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To: ewchil
It also does not authorize welfare payments to terrorist. I am having a real hard time with the fact that a terrorist or anyone can come to this country and get all sorts of perks. Gov loans and grants for anything,medical and all their living expenses paid. They can get into college easier than the kids born here and get a good gov job easier too. All we get to do is pay for it.
48 posted on 09/29/2001 4:34:17 PM PDT by dalebert
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: Joe 6-pack
"Most women I know consider engine oil an optional accessory, and generally treat their men's dip-sticks far too casually."

True, true, true...can't have him going to one of those inferior lube-and-oil joints that claim to "care" about the machinery.

-Lee (who regularly changes her husband's oil and polishes his sword)

50 posted on 09/29/2001 7:40:39 PM PDT by LeeMcCoy
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