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GATHERING OF THE DANGEROUS; COMMENTARY ON PROPH WORDS OF DESTRUCTION; THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN
THE ELIJAH LIST and Kim Clements ^ | 25 July 1996; 21DEC 2000; 20 MAY2001; 30SEP2001 | Steve Shultz THE ELIJAH LIST; Kim Clement w some annotations by Quix

Posted on 09/30/2001 11:55:21 AM PDT by Quix

QUIX INTRO:
THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN
FOLLOWING is a document I received today via The Elijah List which includes a prophecy from 1996 that includes the phrases: ". . . but God says, even as they retaliate with natural weapons of war and they say, we will go [to] the place of the east and we will go and we will bring them down for what they did to our peo9ple as they flew in the air, over Long Island."

I had planned to just include excerpts. But having gone to Kim Clement's site and considered the doc from Steve S at Elijah List as well as other docs at Kim's site, I feel the entire Elijah List doc and excerpts from other docs at Kim C's site would be well to put together hereon. That way, those believers not used to such will have more breadth and depth to judge the lot with.

THIS IS PRIMARILY OFFERED FOR THE INTEREST AND EDIFICATION OF CHRISTIANS CONCERNED ABOUT CURRENT EVENTS AND WHO MIGHT BE CHEWING ON HOW TO THINK, PRAY AND ACT RELATED THERETO. This is NOT intended nor desired to be a trigger of tirades and pontifications from within or without Christian circles. IF IT'S NOT YOUR CUP OF TEA, PLEASE SKIP IMMEDIATELY TO ANOTHER TOPIC AND IGNORE THE WHOLE THING.

I HAVE NO INTEREST IN DEBATING WHETHER GOD SPEAKS THIS WAY IN OUR ERA OR NOT. If sincere believers are beginning to tune into this aspect of their relationship with God, I'd be happy to respond to private emails about that. Bating messages are likely to be ignored but I am human.

Steve Shultz offers some commentary on Kim's predictions in the early part of the Elijah List doc that follows this Quix intro. Steve appears to be an authentic man of God with a caring heart and to be respected as a "real go getter" by some in his area of Oregon. He can be annoying in his newsletters as his ads for tapes of various conferences and other speakers can seem to intrude too much into his newsletters. I've noted that to him strongly and he sent a kind reply. I have to admit that he does seem to screen docs well and provide a higher percentage of docs worth my keeping than most other lists.

I appreciate Steve's reminder that ALL PROPHETS [as well as other Christians who also "look through a dark glass at a fuzzy image] PROPHECY IN PART--no one has all knowledge etc. but God. Some may think they do or sound like they do--they are likely hazardous to one's spiritual health and at least should be watched closely and warily.

Kim Clement's personality comes through in his prophecies. This is true of Old Testament prophets as well as Peter, Paul and John in the NT. It seems to me that God delights in using our personalities sometimes even as part of the message. In any case, the local church or group is responsible for sorting, sifting and gleaning out of whatever prophecies are offered the meat or core truth that God may be offering. . . and to say there is none, if that is the discerning sense.

I believe these docs have plenty to chew profitably on and that's why I'm offering them--for Believers to do that with them and pray accordingly. I really want future traumas to be moderated as much as possible and I believe strongly that prayer by folks such as the authentic, earnest believers on here can have great prayerful impact--particularly when informed.

I like the parts of Kim's msg which shows God's intent for compassion on all and His intent to bless all and draw all unto Himself. That sounds like the God I know. That sounds exciting. Have expected that for a long time but had a hard time--and still do--guessing how it might really fit-in to various potential and probable traumas of our era.

SORRY IT'S SO LONG. YOU MAY WANT TO STUDY IT IN BITE SIZED PIECES--OR FOREGO IT BECAUSE OF IT'S LENGTH. FOR THOSE INTERESTED EVEN IN SUCH LONG PIECES, HAVE FUN. THERE ARE SEVERAL DIFFERENT SECTIONS WHICH I'LL TRY AND DISTINGUISH.

EMPHASES BELOW IS MOST LIKELY MINE--Q

Blessings, Quix
#######################################

{Regular ELIJAH LIST tape-of-the-month contributors: Bob Jones, Keith Davis, Jim Goll, Ed Traut, Jill Austin, Pat Cocking, Bobby Conner, Reed Grafke, Steve Shultz, Todd Bentley, Chad Taylor, John Paul Jackson, Chuck Pierce, plus a few surprise tapes}

QUIX NOTE: YOU CAN ACCESS HIS SITE IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN TAPES OR CDS WITH SUCH SPEAKERS' MESSAGES.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A QUOTE FROM THIS MONTH'S TAPE/CD OFFER:
"God wants to release all His People from fear of man, failure, shame, and intimidation." And we cry, as he burns off our dross, "MORE FIRE LORD!" -- Michal Ann Goll
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

THE ELIJAH LIST:

" . . .for strengthening, encouragement and comfort" (1 Cor 14:3)

www.elijahlist.com

To Subscribe to THE ELIJAH LIST, go to: www.elijahlist.com or send a blank email to: elijahlist3@mindspring.com

THE ELIJAH LIST ONLINE WEB STORE:
http://theelijahlist.safeshopper.com
[PLEASE PASTE IN BROWSER IF YOU WANT TO GO DIRECT--Q] -----------------------

COMMENTARY ON PROPHETIC WORDS OF DESTRUCTION by: FROM STEVE SHULTZ, TO THE ELIJAH LIST:

Below is perhaps the most accurate prophetic word ( 5 years before this terrorist attack ) I have seen foretelling the events of the terrorist attack on New York City and Washington, D.C. Even so, it did not detail the date or the exact point of impact in New York City or Washington, D.C. --as I have come to believe now that it was NOT in God's plan to reveal the exact information before hand--for whatever reason.

These two important words (below) are through Kim Clement --a man I believe to be a true prophet of God. I do believe he has an hearing ear from the Lord regarding God's intentions for America.

You know, of course, that Prophets today know only "in part and prophesy in part." (I Corinthians 13:9). If you find a prophet who claims to always know God's answer for every single issue: personal, corporate, and for the nations-- you've found an out-of-balance prophet who only BELIEVES that all his words are from God. Prophets must be submitted to one another, and to other leaders. The expression, "no man is an island, no man stands alone," could have been written especially for prophets. No prophet knows it all. Not one.

I believe these two words by Kim Clement are from the Lord---but of course, they are "in part." Other prophets have revelation about and around these recent events, and intercessors have a major role to pray regarding it.

===================================

REGARDING PROPHECIES OF DESTRUCTION
===================================

I hold a FIRM conviction about prophecies of destruction. When God prophesied evil, we learn from the BIBLE'S GREATEST INTERCESSORS--they they didn't always accept it as a given fact. Remember Moses and Abraham (mentioned in the first article below). And remember Joel (from Joel chapter 2)? Who knows, says Joel, if people repent, that God won't leave behind a blessing instead of judgment. And finally Jonah. God cancelled judgment and brought revival instead of destruction. My firm conviction is that until or unless destruction of any nature comes, NO MATTER WHO PROPHESIES IT ----the CHURCH and the BODY must simply pray to prevent destruction . . . all destruction. And then leave the results to God.

We must stand in the gap. Period. End of story. The only exception is if the Lord specifically tells an individual NOT to pray against judgment. And that is far more rare than many believe it to be. We stand in the gap until the end is known-- whether for mercy or destruction.

I believe we must continually seek God's mercy so that more people will be saved, rather than destroyed and lost forever.

=================================
REGARDING KIM CLEMENT'S TWO WORDS
=================================

These two words by Kim Clement are:

1) IN DEFENSE OF THE GOD I LOVE --- WAS THIS JUDGMENT ON AMERICA?

2) WORD FROM 1996 ABOUT TERRORIST ATTACKS COMING.

I want to especially call those who read this second word to PRAY and ask the Lord to intervene wherever our country might consider taking action that is not "from the Lord" but also for the Lord to use "for the Good" any actions we take that are a mistake. This 1996 word by Kim Clement, given 5 years before this New York City/ Washington D.C. event says, among other things . . .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kim Clement's 1996 prophecy: "The Spirit of prophecy is in this building. I am shaking right now. "I am shaking this place. I am shaking your ground. I am shaking the earth. There has been a terrorist act and there will be another. For the Spirit of the Lord says, America will retaliate, but God says, even as they retaliate with natural weapons of war and they say, we will go the place of the east and we will go and we will bring them down for what they did to our people as they flew in the air, over Long Island. But the Spirit of the Lord says, another will take place, but I will prevent many deaths, because I will cause a security thing to happen so they will not die. I will look after you, America. But God says, the retaliation will not be right. It will not be of my Spirit. It will be a wrong decision, but God says the saints of the Lord, of the most high God, will begin to pray. And your God says, I will strike down the god of the east. I will bring something to pass very soon. I have told you about it. The very god of the east, the very king of the east, the very prince of the east. The one that waged a war against America. They spoke about the mother of wars. For God says, This is going to be the mother of wars as you have never seen. For the Spirit of God will rise up against the prince of the east, and He will bring him down." ---Kim Clement, July 25, 1996 FROM:
http://www.kimclement.com/

QUIX COMMENTARY:
I had a former Muslim from Morroco who used live with me. He researched the origins of "Allah" the word. He is utterly convinced--as, I've discoverd, are some other researchers--that the origins of that word are properly traced to the term for the object of worship of a satanic cult of the mid-east eons ago.

He is convinced that Muslims who pray to Allah are hailing the very wrong source.

I don't know about that. I believe there are at least a couple of mentalities involved. . . . and probably varying degrees of "possession," or other sorts of demonic influence. I believe OBLaden is well over the line listening to the Father of Lies as The Bible calls the enemy of our souls. And I believe that most anyone--even Christians who are overly given to fiercely intense, prolonged, violent, bitter anger, hatred etc. are very easily seduced into listening to and eventually following, obeying the same enemy. I could easily imagine that such folk might think they were worshipping the same God as Abraham worshipped but be submitting to an entirely different being.

But I believe that folk in earnestness and ignorance who out of a good heart are focusing on Who they believe to be Almighty God, The God of Abraham--That that all loving God will tend to understand and compassionately consider their plight and prayer. End commentary by Quix
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The above prophecy is the clearest I [Steve Shultz] have seen that was pre-written before the recent terrorist events.

Now that the U.S. is preparing a response to the terrorist attack, Remember . .

. . . pray that the Lord's will be done and not man's. It's time to stand in the gap.

For your prophetic thoughts,

Steve Shultz, Publisher, THE ELIJAH LIST

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

==================================

Now here are the full texts for both Words by Kim Clement:

===================================

IN DEFENSE OF THE GOD I LOVE
September 18, 2001
by Kim Clement
From:

http://www.kimclement.com/words/sept2001/judgment.htm

(Written September 18, one week after the events of September 11)

I don't agree with the many “prophets” who have made statements of doom about various cities, and even given dates and years, and they have not come to pass.

If God sends judgment upon a nation or city, and measures this judgment according to their GOOD or EVIL, then I would have to say that:

· The Eiffel Tower would be shattered into a million pieces and the inhabitants of Sodomic Paris, pillars of salt for the French Fries;

· Amsterdam would be the largest lake in the world;

· Rome would be burning while angels play their fiddles;

· The British Isles would be the "British Files";

· Frankfurt would be called "Frankfurter";

· Barcelona would be another fishing village.

The USA has unrighteousness and wickedness, as does every other NATION. However, there are millions of praying, righteous people, who have stood before the Lord and sought His face. Let us remember the fact that God ALSO takes into account the righteous acts of good people and rewards accordingly. America has unselfishly given billions of dollars to the poor and needy all over the world, fulfilling the commands of Jesus Christ.

They have sent missionaries into remote parts of the world and never given up on the poorest of nations.

Usually when God judged anyone in the Bible, it was His nation, or if you want, the Church. His prophets spoke to Judah, Jerusalem and Israel. The Church must take responsibility because the sinner has no clue about godliness. They sin without fear and only look to God when there is need. God does not manipulate men to love Him.

Fair enough, there are evil practices in the USA. Forget the Supreme Court. Their decision to rule out prayer in the schools actually promoted unselfish and sincere prayer from the hearts of young men and women. There is more prayer in the hearts of the students now than the repetitious prayers of religious teachers.

Wars happen. Not every war is as a result of sin or evil. Wars and attacks have happened throughout the history of mankind. Israel was attacked many times, in the Old Testament, for no reason, except a lurking enemy who was waiting for an opportunity to steal the glory of Israel. Goliath provoked the Israelites in order to "find a man". These stupid ‘boy-games’ have continued throughout the centuries. "I am stronger than you," they say. “Let us prove who is the strongest.” Yet it took a ‘David’, a young lad with a love for God, and a simple strategy to overcome this foe. (1Sam 17:1-58)

To say that God is judging the USA is not only a lie, but also proof of self-righteousness on the part of a sleeping, lazy, church. America is not as Israel of old. It has atheists, satanists and people who simply don't follow God. So when God addresses anyone, He addresses the Church, and the believers first.

The Church needs to repent; after all, "judgment begins in the house of God." (1 Peter 4:17)

1 Peter 4:17 “FOR THE TIME HAS COME FOR JUDGMENT TO BEGIN AT THE HOUSE OF GOD, AND IF IT BEGINS WITH US FIRST, WHAT WILL BE THE END OF THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF GOD?”

Let me explain this:

The order of judgment begins with the Church. Once the Church is judged and has become the standard for judgment, only then is God justified in judging the wicked. The church today is most certainly not a righteous standard for God’s judgment.

Now, the USA has been struck and we say God has lifted His hand. So He gets the credit for bad events. Why do we always find a reason for an attack, war or death? Jesus said, "There shall be wars and rumors of wars." (Matt. 24:6)

I think we need to remind ourselves of an old saint who pleaded with God for two cities that were about to be burnt with fire - Sodom and Gomorrah. Instead of Abraham sitting self-righteously and declaring, "Go ahead, God, those ‘faggots’ deserve it!", he pleaded ON BEHALF OF THE RIGHTEOUS.

"SUPPOSE YOU FIND FIFTY GODLY PEOPLE THERE WITHIN THE CITY - WILL YOU DESTROY IT AND NOT SPARE IT FOR THEIR SAKES?” (Genesis 18:24)

“GOD SAID, ‘IF I FIND FIFTY GODLY PEOPLE THERE, I WILL SPARE THE ENTIRE CITY FOR THEIR SAKE.’ “ (Genesis 18:26)

ANOTHER FRIEND OF GOD, MOSES, STOOD IN GOD'S WAY WHEN HE WAS ABOUT TO WIPE OUT THE ‘HOLY NATION’, HIS PEOPLE.

“GOD SAID, ‘I HAVE SEEN WHAT A STUBBORN, REBELLIOUS LOT THESE PEOPLE ARE. NOW LET ME ALONE AND MY ANGER SHALL BLAZE OUT AGAINST THEM AND DESTROY THEM ALL, AND I WILL MAKE YOU, MOSES, INTO A GREAT NATION INSTEAD OF THEM.’ " (Exodus 32:9-10)

Moses. Knowing that this was uncharacteristic of God, stood in God’s way and declared these words:

“TURN BACK FROM YOUR FIERCE WRATH. TURN AWAY FROM THIS TERRIBLE EVIL YOU ARE PLANNING AGAINST YOUR PEOPLE. REMEMBER YOUR PROMISE TO YOUR SERVANTS - ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND ISRAEL.” (Exodus 32:12-13)

Our Prayer for America should be:

“GOD, REMEMBER YOUR PROMISE TO YOUR SERVANTS THOMAS JEFFERSON, BENJAMIN FRANKLIN AND GEORGE WASHINGTON”, instead of " LORD, SHOULD WE CALL FIRE FROM HEAVEN AND CONSUME THEM, LIKE ELIJAH DID?"

LUKE 9:54 56:

“And when the disciples, James and John, saw that they did not receive Jesus, they said, ‘Lord do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?’ BUT HE TURNED AND REBUKED THEM AND SAID, ‘YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT MANNER OF SPIRIT YOU ARE OF, FOR THE SON OF MAN DID NOT COME TO DESTROY MEN'S LIVES, BUT TO SAVE THEM.’ "

It seems that God gets upset with His people before the unbeliever because the believer should know better. The Church has been playing games these past years. Let's talk about the sin in the Church and with leaders before we make our hasty judgments against New York and the USA. Church, why aren't you praying the way you should be? You seem to be enjoying carousing, divorcing, spending, condemning, and judging one another? What do we expect the World to do? They look to us as the measuring stick.

Allow me to make this point: God regards the righteous in a Nation and rewards them accordingly.

It's so sad that every time something evil happens, we, the Church, bring God into the picture and misrepresent Him. Yet, when there is continuous prosperity and peace, happiness and life, we refuse to blame HIM!! America has enjoyed all of the above and then suddenly there is one act of terrorism and violence, and we play on this, hoping to get people to repent.

Oh yes! They will turn to God during this time, but it will be short lived if the Church does not immediately present a loving caring God and invite these people to enjoy His grace and favor.

Instead of constantly putting them in fear of this beautiful God whom I have served for these years, let’s also show them the side of God that they can relate to.

Do me a favor; Next time something good happens in the USA, like an economic revival, prosperity, a Godly president, a peace treaty, a surrender of an oppressive "walled" country, a cure for AIDS, the Disney company making a moral stand against violence and sex, a billionaire donating a billion dollars for starving countries, a rapid drop in unemployment, a scientific breakthrough or such, BLAME GOD! Maybe a few people will follow Him!

KIM CLEMENT (In defense of the God I know and love) September 18th 2001

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"GATHERING OF THE DANGEROUS" (Includes the prophecy about Terrorism) By Kim Clement July 25, 1996

FROM:

http://www.kimclement.com/words/1996/detroit_july_1996.htm

"For tonight, the Spirit of the Lord says, many have said how will the Jews be saved? And many have said, what about Israel? And the Lord would speak to His people tonight and say, I'm about to take a trip to Israel. I'm about to take a trip to Israel. And I will take the Jews and fill them with my Spirit. This is the final hour. This is the final generation. I'm about to take a trip to Israel, and God says, I'm going to fill them with my Spirit. I'm going to fill them with my power, and they're going to tell the world that Jesus Christ is Lord of all. God said, I'm about to take a trip to Israel." For the Spirit of the Lord says, "You didn't think it was possible. And many of you said, Will Israel be saved through the blood of Christ? But I have prepared them for an end-time army. Do you think that we have warriors even now the Lord says? I will take the warriors that are potentially more dangerous that ever, that live right now in that land called the Holy Land. I will transform them, says the Lord. I will take them and fill them with my Spirit. And they will be so fervent in the praise of their Lord God. They will say that the Jehovah God that we serve now is the Jehovah God that they served then. And they will say, Jesus Christ is Lord - the Messiah, He has come. And they will be filled with my Spirit. I prophesy to you tonight, and God said it. I'm about to take a trip to Israel."

"I will even take the rabbi's, even take the people that are dressed in the cloaks and garments. They will come out and say there is only one Lord. His name is Jesus! It's Jesus! I will even allow my Spirit to baptize them in the very sanctuaries. I will even go into the temples, and I will fill them with my Spirit. And don't let anybody tell you that I cannot do it, says the Lord. I can go to the temple any time I like. I can go to the Jewish places anytime I like. I can go to Mount Zion any time I like. I will go wherever I want to."

"But that's not all! But that's not all! He says, I'm going to go way beyond and even go into the Christian Science church. I will go to the Scientologists. I will even go to the Jehovah Witnesses. And they will go from JW to JC in the house! For God says, I'll take the Jehovah Witnesses, the Christian Scientists, I will even take the psychics, and fill them with my Spirit. You know why? You know why, says the Lord? Because I'll go wherever I want. I'll go wherever I want. But listen - I'm about to take a trip to Israel."

And God says, "Don't you worry about a thing because history is in the making. Look at 1998. Look at the month of June. For God says, surprising events will take place and they will say, How is it possible that peace could take place? But God says that peace shall be short lived. However, there will be a revival that will be so powerful, that will be greater than the Jews have ever experienced before. And God says they will dance in the streets of Israel, they will dance in the streets of Israel. I'm about to take a trip to Israel."

"Poverty is about to take a turn from the church. There is a harvest coming in to the pastors and their churches. I prophesy many, many souls will be saved - many, many people will be filled with the Spirit - many, many people will be healed and delivered - many, many people will dance before the Lord - many, many people will come out of darkness - many, many people will be filled with the Spirit - many, many people will be healed and saved - many, many people. But He said, I'm about to take a trip to Israel."

"As you have prostrated yourself before me, and as I have seen those who have laid before me and prayed and cried out for the youth of this country, God says, I will bring them out of prisons and make them preachers. I will take them out of drugs and will cause them to be apostles. For the Lord says, I have seen you. I have taken those and thrust them to the ground, where they can go further no more, where they can go down no more. I cry for you, says the Lord, because there are many that have said, We don't know what God can do. How can He possibly do it? But the Lord says, Even as there has been those that have prostrated themselves before God, they are going to be raised up, and when I raise them up, they will be raised up as the most powerful warriors. Even though you may have been wounded, even though you may have fallen in the battle, even though you may have lost a leg, or you may have lost an arm, and you have crawled to safety. God says, I'm taking those wounded warriors, raising them up. I'm taking their bloody garments and I'm going to use them as fuel for fire. I'm, going to take you, says the Lord, and cause you to see the very face of the snake, you will see the face of the serpent. While you are down, you will recognize him, but when you get up, you will put your foot on the serpent's head that brought you down," says the Lord.

==========================================

The Spirit of prophecy is in this building. I am shaking right now. "I am shaking this place. I am shaking your ground. I am shaking the earth. There has been a terrorist act and there will be another. For the Spirit of the Lord says, America will retaliate, but God says, even as they retaliate with natural weapons of war and they say, we will go the place of the east and we will go and we will bring them down for what they did to our people as they flew in the air, over Long Island. But the Spirit of the Lord says, another will take place, but I will prevent many deaths, because I will cause a security thing to happen so they will not die. I will look after you, America. But God says, the retaliation will not be right. It will not be of my Spirit. It will be a wrong decision, but God says the saints of the Lord, of the most high God, will begin to pray. And your God says, I will strike down the god of the east. I will bring something to pass very soon. I have told you about it. The very god of the east, the very king of the east, the very prince of the east. The one that waged a war against America. They spoke about the mother of wars. For God says, This is going to be the mother of wars as you have never seen. For the Spirit of God will rise up against the prince of the east, and He will bring him down."

=====================================

"And God says, when He does, I will enter the Muslim countries and I will save their souls. I will bring salvation unto the soil of the Islamic countries. Did you hear what I said? It is drawing nigh, it is drawing nigh, it is drawing nigh, says the Lord. There is a betrayal amongst the princes of the east. There is a betrayal amongst the princes of the east. And God says, I will take the very sheiks and I will let them see the true God of Israel. And God says, listen to me. There will be a major death. It is coming nigh right now. But God says when this death occurs, there will be life that will be transferred from the very throne of God. And I will bring down the god of the east."

"And the Spirit of the Lord says, when that happens, there will be an invasion of my blood into the territories that would never be holy, but shall become holy. I will take the holy places which are actually unholy, and I will lift them up. I will declare, this is NOT holy. I will tear down the idols and their gods. I will tear down the spirits of Allah. I will take the lying spirits and break their power. And I will begin to save hundred of thousands of Islamic people. I will take them out and fill them with my Spirit and they will begin to preach. They will preach in the desert, and they will preach in the highways, in the desert ways. And God says, they will preach by the lakes and they will begin to tell people, and God says great amounts of riches and wealth shall be poured into the United States and America. And God says, by the end of this century, by the end of this millennium, I will take the economy of America and I will raise it up and it shall be a great prosperity that will be in this nation and God says, the poor will say, I am rich."

(The rest of the prophecy is found at the website below)

KIM CLEMENT (In defense of the God I know and love)

http://www.kimclement.com/

PROPHETIC IMAGE EXPRESSIONS
PO Box 293303 Lewisville, TX.
75029-3303

========================================

NEXT ARE SOME OTHER PROPHECIES VIA KIM CLEMENT:

on May 20, 2001 in Lancaster, California

“The Spirit of the Lord says as your prayers are coming forth from your spirit, I will take them and I’m going to turn them around and I’m going to answer you tonight says the Lord. If my people who are called by my name would humble themselves and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and I will heal their land. I’m going to heal your land says the Lord.

There’s going to be a miracle that’s going to happen between America and China. There’s going to be a miracle that’s going to happen in the Middle East.

As you begin to pray tonight, I’m going to begin to shake the Middle East with my power and with my glory, says the Lord. Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel, there’s oil coming out of your land. Israel, there’s oil coming out of your soil. There’s oil going to come forth says the Spirit Lord. And you shall laugh at your enemies, you shall laugh at your enemies. Because I will raise up within you a sound of victory says the Spirit of the Lord. As my people pray tonight, I will heal this land and I will cause the political powers to begin to fall on their knees and begin to pray. I began with the President and they are mocking him says the Lord, but because he is praying I am going to do something so fresh in this land and it shall come to pass that 18 months from now, I will cause every church in this nation to be filled with my fire and filled with my power and filled with my anointing says the Lord. Everybody pray. Everybody pray.”

--------------------------------

Aired December 31, 2000. Recorded a month or more before at TBN, Nashville, Tennessee

"…God is going to bring about a spirit of conversion.. somebody got happy!.. so I feel it’s always time for people to repent.. I didn’t say repentance.. I said conversion.. God said.. It’s time for a spirit of conversion to come.. upon the land.. the United States of America.. no.. you didn’t get it.. the word convert means to turnabout.. to turnaround.. America.. January is coming.. and God says.. there’s going to be a turning around.. and a turning about.. I don’t think you’re hearing me.. because you don’t REALLY believe that God’s saying THAT.. some of you are saying.. I don’t know what you’re really saying.. or saying there’s going to be a turning around and a turning about.. EVERY decision that’s been made.. EVEN from the HIGHEST COURT in this land.. is going to be TURNED AROUND.. and TURNED ABOUT!.. says the Spirit of the Lord.. come on.. turn it about!.. come on…

What time is it?… to everything there is a season.. to everything there is a time.. for every purpose under heaven.. what time is it?.. what is the time that God has designated for this hour?.. and I want you to know this.. because.. when I read those two words.. season.. and time.. the word season means an appointed occasion.. a divinely appointed occasion.. and has been set aside.. by God.. since the beginning of the world.. and has made mention of it.. through the mouths of the prophets.. the holy prophets of old.. the word time means a duration.. or due measure.. there is a time for laughter.. there is a time for crying.. in other words.. we have looked at this whole great realm.. of what’s been going on.. on the earth.. there’s been a time for Democrats.. and there’s been now a time for Republicans.. actually I think it’s time for a THEOCRACY!..

I think it’s time for some divine intervention.. I think it’s time to forget about Democrat OR Republican.. or Bush or Gore.. or Bore or Gush!.. FORGET ABOUT THEM!.. God said.. I did this whole thing.. because I want people to know.. that there is NO President, BUT the PRESIDENT of heaven.. who’s GOING to rule this nation from the year 2001.. I’m going to be ruling.. for God says.. I have designated THIS time to be Mine.. says the Lord.. THIS.. IS.. YOUR.. TIME!.. says the Spirit of the Lord.. hallelujah…

=======================================

****************************************

NEXT IS A DOC GIVING SOME INTERPRETATION OF THE 1996 PROPHECY--INTERPRETATION BY KIM, I BELIEVE.

FOUND AT:

http://www.kimclement.com/words/1996/detroit_july_1996_interpretation.htm

Gathering of the Dangerous Day 4, July, 1995 Interpretation

The Spirit of prophecy is in this building. I am shaking right now. "I am shaking this place. I am shaking your ground. I am shaking the earth. There has been a terrorist act and there will be another. For the Spirit of the Lord says, America will retaliate, but God says, even as they retaliate with natural weapons of war and they say, we will go the place of the east and we will go and we will bring them down for what they did to our people as they flew in the air over Long Island.

KIM'S INTERPRETATION OF THE ABOVE:

At that time The Spirit was speaking of a future terrorist act, which I believe is this attack on New York. However, when God speaks through a Prophet, He speaks as if it is happening at the time, even though it is an event that will take place in the future.

Isaiah prophesied in his time

“For unto us a child is born, Unto us a Son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” Isaiah 9: 6.

This prophecy that Isaiah gave was only going to be fulfilled 900 years later, but yet he spoke as if it had already happened. Prophetic speech.

My prophecy in 1996 states: “There has been an act of war and America will retaliate …..for what they did to our people as they flew in the air over Long Island”. I believe that this is speaking about what just happened in New York. Even though the Spirit speaks about Long Island, I believe that the prophecy has allocated the exact whereabouts of the terrorist act.

PROPHECY CONTINUED:

But the Spirit of the Lord says, “another will take place, but I will prevent many deaths, because I will cause a security thing to happen so they will not die.** I will look after you, America.

KIM'S INTERPRETATION OF THE ABOVE:

I believe that another terrorist attempt is in the making, but because of a security thing that would be installed or invented, etc, I, [God] will prevent many deaths”. This is speaking of the next attempt. I don’t believe that the terrorist group is through with America in this attack.

PROPHECY CONTINUED:

But God says, the retaliation will not be right. It will not be of my Spirit. It will be a wrong decision, but God says the saints of the Lord, of the most high God, will begin to pray. And your God says, I will strike down the god of the east. I will bring something to pass very soon.

KIM’S INTERPRETATION:

America’s method of retaliation will not be right. However, it seems that God is suggesting that the USA will go ahead with it anyway, and because of the Saints praying , He will strike down the god of the East. [ The controlling political and spiritual powers of the East ] “I will bring something to pass VERY SOON. [ Throughout scriptures “Soon or very soon” usually means “swiftly” or “quickly” or “suddenly”

PROPHECY CONTINUED:

“I have told you about it. The very god of the east; the very king of the east, the very prince of the east. The one that waged a war against America. They spoke about the mother of wars.

KIM’S INTERPRETATION:

“god of the East; prince of the East; The ONE THAT waged a war against America. They spoke about the mother of wars,

Saddam Hussein, who resides as a prince of Babylon and represents a leader in terrorism and hatred against America , is the one who declared “ The mother of battles”. God is revealing to us the instigator and source of this act of terrorism, even though it may not have been Saddam Hussein specifically, it comes from that Islamic group.

PROPHECY CONTINUED:

For God says, This is going to be the mother of wars as you have never seen. For the Spirit of God will rise up against the prince of the east, and He will bring him down."

”THIS IS GOING TO BE THE MOTHER OF WARS AS YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN:”

This act of terrorism will bring about a war. America is mad and will not stand still and allow this force of evil to dictate her freedom. Once they discover the truth, and the source, they will retaliate, which according to the spirit will not be a good move, but because of the saints praying, He will intervene and cause victory. This suggests that the first method or strategy in retaliating may not be wise, or victorious, but God will intervene nevertheless.

I believe that the duty and the calling of the Church at this time is to pray. Not pathetic plea’s but prayers like Jehoshophat prayed:

2 Chronicles 20:6-12:

O Lord God of our fathers, are You not God in heaven and so You not rule over all the kingdoms of the nations and in Your hand is ther not power and might so that no one is able to withstand You? Are You not our God, who drove out the inhabitants of this land before Your people Israel, and gave it to the descendants of Abraham Your friend forever? And they dwell in it, and have built You a sanctuary in it for Your name, saying: “If disaster comes upon us – sword, judgment, pestilence, or famine – we will stand before this temple and in Your presence and cry out to You in our affliction and You will hear and save” AND NOW, here are the people of Ammon, Moab, and Mount Seir – whojm you would not let Israel invade when they came out of the land of Egypt, but they turned from them and did not destroy them – HERE THEY ARE, rewarding us by coming to attempt to throw us out of Your possession, which You have given us to inherit.

O our God, WILL YOU NOT JUDGE THEM? “

=============================================== Quix:
If you are a Believer in the Lordship of Jesus Christ, Please ask Him how He would have you pray about the above. I do believe earnest prayer can minimize errors on the part of Bush; minimize devastations from the enemy; hasten freedom on the part of millions of Muslims from repression etc.; protection for and anointed guidance of President Bush.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
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1 posted on 09/30/2001 11:55:21 AM PDT by Quix (FOR THOSE INTERESTED W SOME RESPECT FOR SUCH SOURCES AND ISSUES)
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To: JMJ333
Got Kool-Aid?
2 posted on 09/30/2001 11:59:42 AM PDT by gcruse
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To: Quix
bttt
3 posted on 09/30/2001 12:05:28 PM PDT by Free the USA
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To: Quix
Beware of false prophets.
4 posted on 09/30/2001 12:12:00 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: gcruse
It doesn't take long to fair-mindedly learn to discern between the mind bending egoists and the humble authentic or even the authentic needing more humility.

I think one of the reasons God avoids giving any one person a very full picture of the whole is to keep them humble AND to emphasize that the Body parts need each other!

Perhaps some day your consciousness about such sources and factors may be raised above the Kool-Aid labeling level.

5 posted on 09/30/2001 12:16:19 PM PDT by Quix
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To: gcruse

6 posted on 09/30/2001 12:18:31 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: AppyPappy
For sure.

Other than matching up with Scripture and prayerful discernment, I think Love and humility as attitudes--or lack thereof--are good clues.

And, what is the focus, the result and WHO GET'S THE GLORY.

7 posted on 09/30/2001 12:20:00 PM PDT by Quix
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To: AppyPappy
And there are some very time limited assertions in some of the above that will be very interesting to watch in the coming 18 months. . . . some fairly dramatic things. We shall see.

I haven't yet seen modern prophets hit it nearly as well as I believe God is going to enable them to. Perhaps this could be such a beginning. I don't know. Hope so.

8 posted on 09/30/2001 12:22:32 PM PDT by Quix
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To: JMJ333
Oh, man. Where do you find this stuff? LOL
9 posted on 09/30/2001 12:25:53 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: gcruse
I have a whole collection of microwave...you never know when it may come in handy. ;)

For those with troubled sinuses...


10 posted on 09/30/2001 12:33:08 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
Holy cow. It's Tin-o-Rama. LOL
11 posted on 09/30/2001 12:37:36 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Quix
Didn't TWA 800 fly over Long Island ia 1996?
12 posted on 09/30/2001 12:42:57 PM PDT by marbren
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To: marbren
Don't recall. I don't do dates well. . . . or windows.

But the flavor of this seems to me is that the evil was [future] done in Manhattan.

13 posted on 09/30/2001 12:45:06 PM PDT by Quix
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To: marbren
I could be mistaken, but 1998 rings a bell.
14 posted on 09/30/2001 12:46:35 PM PDT by hope
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To: gcruse
COMPLEXITY affords many explnations for what is observed.

No--no tinfoil, just a window on a facet of reality that doesn't resonate very well with you.

But I sometimes wonder how the foil detractors will feel, if, looking back from eternity, they realize the more paranoid types had it more right all along.

All the human critters I've ever known--especially the one in the mirror--have an enormous capacity to be wrong.

And . . . fairly often, those most wrong are least able to see it or see it last.

15 posted on 09/30/2001 12:55:40 PM PDT by Quix
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To: Quix;JMJ333;storm orphan;godel
But I sometimes wonder how the foil detractors will feel, if,
looking back from eternity, they realize the more paranoid types
had it more right all along.

You know, I can't eat enough to throw
up sufficiently in the face of such Kool-Aid
swilling buffoonery.  Century after century
of failed millenialism and other grand poofery
while the deluded desperate still won't buy
a clue.  Simply amazing.

16 posted on 09/30/2001 1:05:01 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Quix
No--no tinfoil, just a window on a facet of reality that doesn't resonate very well with you.

What reality? You put up a bunch of quotes and predict the end of time. no man knows the day or hour.

17 posted on 09/30/2001 1:17:08 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: Quix
Interesting. And your comments to attempted disruptors is spot on.
18 posted on 09/30/2001 1:23:26 PM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: gcruse
"IF IT'S NOT YOUR CUP OF TEA, PLEASE SKIP IMMEDIATELY TO ANOTHER TOPIC AND IGNORE THE WHOLE THING". Read.
19 posted on 09/30/2001 1:24:23 PM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: JMJ333
Where is the "end of time" predicted?
20 posted on 09/30/2001 1:25:34 PM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: monkeywrench
"IF IT'S NOT YOUR CUP OF TEA, PLEASE SKIP
IMMEDIATELY TO ANOTHER TOPIC AND IGNORE THE
WHOLE THING". Read.

Happily, it seems most Freepers do not find
this lunacy their cuppa, either.  I feel it is
my duty, however, to try and rescue my
brothers and sisters from the rank putresence
of a rotting frontal lobe.  It's nasty work, but
someone's gotta do it.

21 posted on 09/30/2001 1:29:11 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Quix
TWA 800 went down a few weeks before this "prophecy" was made. This was a time we all felt terrorists shot it down.
22 posted on 09/30/2001 1:32:32 PM PDT by marbren
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To: monkeywrench
YOUR USE OF CAP LOCKS DOESN'T GET YOUR POINT ACCROSS ANY BETTER--Oh, and I'll post on any thread I feel like.
23 posted on 09/30/2001 1:37:27 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: gcruse
Your posts seem more disruptive than helpful.
24 posted on 09/30/2001 1:39:08 PM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: JMJ333
I cut and pasted it from the article, which you apparently didn't read!
25 posted on 09/30/2001 1:41:26 PM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: monkeywrench
Where is the "end of time" predicted?

The post very much has overtones of "End times" destruction. For example:

"And the Spirit of the Lord says, when that happens, there will be an invasion of my blood into the territories that would never be holy, but shall become holy.

This happens in revelation and revelation alone. When we all live as one is harmonious communion-we'll no longer be here.

26 posted on 09/30/2001 1:44:19 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: monkeywrench
I did read it. I just don't wear tinfoil-- And I don't like cap locks.
27 posted on 09/30/2001 1:45:14 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
"When we all live as one is harmonious communion-we'll no longer be here." So, you'll wait for Revelation times to kick in before you'll be more harmoniously inclined? :>)
28 posted on 09/30/2001 1:51:16 PM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: monkeywrench
So, you'll wait for Revelation times to kick in before you'll be more harmoniously inclined? :>)

No, but I don't live in utopia either. :0)

29 posted on 09/30/2001 2:01:09 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: ...
despite that all...it is NEVER bad advice to pray. God will answer in His own way...He already has. But we cannot only turn to Him in times of peril. He is Good, He is Strong, He loves his people. He wants us with Him all the time. We should not forget Him...and ALWAYS pray to Him.

NEVER bad advice to pray!!!!!!

30 posted on 09/30/2001 2:09:24 PM PDT by Alkhin
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To: JMJ333
I found this read very interesting. Instead of pickering with one another, let's just continue to PRAY AND FAST for our military men in AFGY. Please Jesus, place a shield of protection around our servicemen and our President during these trying time. AMEN! And God Bless America!
31 posted on 09/30/2001 2:52:12 PM PDT by RoseofTexas
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To: Quix; RoseofTexas
"I found this read very interesting. Instead of pickering with one another, let's just continue to PRAY AND FAST for our military men in AFGY. Please Jesus, place a shield of protection around our servicemen and our President during these trying time. AMEN! And God Bless America!"

I agree, very interesting and thought-provoking. I am no prophet, but certainly God has given this gift to some even today...and He will send even more messages to us as the events foretold in Revelations come closer to fruition.

We are instructed to be ever-vigilant, to pray and fast for our loved ones, friends and neighbors, our country and it's leaders. There is a spiritual war in progress, whether or not this is the beginning of THE war, we cannot tell. I hope fervently that all these events are a wake-up call to Christians...because we have grown lazy.

Thank you Quix for posting this.

32 posted on 09/30/2001 3:24:57 PM PDT by LeeMcCoy
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To: Quix
I HAVE NO INTEREST IN DEBATING WHETHER GOD SPEAKS THIS WAY IN OUR ERA OR NOT.

Then you shouldn't post on FR, because anything posted here is fair game for refutation. But OK, I won't attempt to debate, just state my opinion.

Personally, I believe anyone who is "prophesying" in this day and time is either an ignoramus concerning the bible, or is decieved, or is a deciever himself, and I don't give any credibility to the "prophecies" of either one. If you are into this sort of thing, just tune around the short-wave bands late at night and you can find several self-proclaimed "prophets" prophesying almost anything that suits your fancy. I believe this supermarket tabloid-style sensationalism brings unnecessary ridicule by unbelievers upon Christians and upon Christ's church, just as I believe snake-handlers and slick, oily faith healers do. I don't mind being ridiculed for my faith in Jesus Christ, but otoh, I don't feel a need to be ridiculed because of non-scriptural showboating either.

In the 18th chapter of Deuteronomy God said that the test of a true prophet is whether or not the prophet's prophecies are 100% accurate. I don't believe Mr. Clements, or any other present-day "prophet" passes that test. If you know of any proof to the contrary, please post it ASAP as I would like very much to hear about it. I believe, as do most other evangelical Christians, that the day of prophets and prophecies ended with the revelation that Jesus gave to John on the isle of Patmos. In I Co. 13:8 Paul wrote that prophecies would cease, and I believe that occurred at the end of the 1st century AD with the book of the Revelation. If the end-time prophecies that anyone can read in the bible aren't specific enough to satisfy a person's curiosity, that person has more curiosity than God is willing to indulge, IMHO.

But understand, I'm not debating, just giving MHO.

33 posted on 09/30/2001 5:51:42 PM PDT by epow
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To: gcruse
You are quite entitled to your construction on reality.

SOME after the WTC seemed to clue in that times are a changin' as never before.

Some are convinced that there's still no new thing under the sun. It's doubtful that both will be equally right.

What's also curious, is your outrage.

34 posted on 09/30/2001 7:28:51 PM PDT by Quix
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To: JMJ333
THANKFULLY, for my preferences, no man knows the day nor the hour. . . . of the SECOND COMING. . . .

It's interesting that that would technically leave week, month and year. . . . but I'm mostly teasing with that idea.

TO ME, the more important aspects of the quotes suggested are that BELIEVERS WOULD DO WELL TO:

A) pray earnestly that our gov would have uncommon wisdom in this situation.

B) pray earnestly regarding the further attacks planned and predicted by (1) multiple secular intelligence sources from multiple nations (2) various prophetic sources of all types (3) logic.

C) pray earnestly that believers have a growthful, constructive, redemptive attitude toward all concerned while supporting the disciplines of God on the evil involved.

D) realize yet again that God's perspective is usually not likely to be ours.

E) realize yet again that God has options we haven't begun to dream of.

F) support our military forces enormously in prayer in the event that, indeed, they EVEN MIGHT be acting on even partially flawed options.

G) pray that Iraq's leader get's fully and thoroughly what he keenly deserves to finally take him out of the equation whether by God's direct intervention into his life or through U.S.A actions.

H) watch and see in the next attack if there is evidence that God has moderated the degree of the disaster.

I) prayerfully support whatever God might do in terms of pulling the veil of distortions and darkness back from regions, peoples, leaders, forces in the Middle East.

J) prayerfully support whatever God might do in terms of intensifying, multiplying HIS GLORY, HIS WILL, HIS HEALING, HIS LEADING, HIS WHOLENESS, HIS GRACE, HIS PEACE in the Middle East.

K) realize that God's Love is more overwhelmingly available and more of a priority to even God than is His own justice. Rejoice in that and share that with the hurting everywhere of every orientation. Mercy triumphs over justice.

L) realize and help those around us realize that GOD IS GOD and always will be God and before Him, every other power is at best a weak breath of air in a typhoon.

M) realize more fully that God is sufficient for all our needs present and future. Whether with Him here, graduated from this life and with Him eternally or whatever--He is sufficient and promised that where He is, those who Love Him will be also.

Of course, if none of the above are attractive to you, ignore them and do as you see fit before God. I'm nothing. . . . a too often weak human too often just blowing wind. . . . perhaps sometimes, there's a thought worth prayerfully pondering.

35 posted on 09/30/2001 8:00:58 PM PDT by Quix
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To: marbren
I still think the flavor of the wording is more consistent with something going on--on Manhattan.

my perspective.

36 posted on 09/30/2001 8:03:18 PM PDT by Quix
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To: JMJ333
AHHHHHH,

So it is your freedom to post wherever you like in more or less whatever tone you like . . . dumping whatever invectives you feel fitting. . . .even when particularly disinvited . . . .all that's your 'God and FR given freedom' so-to-speak . . .

Yet you think it's an outrage for others of different persuasion to share ideas about current news hereon.

An interesting internal inconsistency. I can see why you might be full of emotional angst.

37 posted on 09/30/2001 8:06:10 PM PDT by Quix
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To: epow
Personally, I believe anyone who is "prophesying" in this day and time is either an ignoramus concerning the bible, or is decieved, or is a deciever himself, and I don't give any credibility to the "prophecies" of either one.

I understand your trepidation here, but how then do you interpret Acts 2:17-21. Also there WILL be two prophets of God during the tribulation. Revelation is clear on that. I understand it also to mean that God's prophets are 100% correct. But how will we know if we refuse to listen?

38 posted on 09/30/2001 8:09:28 PM PDT by dubyagee
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To: JMJ333
Your interpretation on timing and results is a somewhat plausible one shared by many.

Personally, I believe Revelations speaks of the time of 1,000 years of peace on this planet.

But I don't believe that the unity, understanding, peace spoken of in this prophecy is that. I believe it's more localized and more temporary. . . . more a breathing space, so to speak--that many more might have the opportunity in light of certain dramatic evidence to reconsider, renew or perhaps begin a closer relationship with God.

39 posted on 09/30/2001 8:09:31 PM PDT by Quix
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To: Quix
Any particular reason that "page can't be displayed"?
40 posted on 09/30/2001 8:11:36 PM PDT by dubyagee
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To: Quix
Yet you think it's an outrage for others of different persuasion to share ideas about current news hereon.

You can say and post anything you like...and I can tease you for posting doom and gloom end-of-the-world prophecies if I like. If you have a position, defend it--I'm ready! ;)

41 posted on 09/30/2001 8:12:21 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
Hmmmm, I missed reading anything about utopia in the docs--except perhaps pointing to The God who creates Peace and wholeness out of chaos. . .

I personally believe God deliberately made the Biblical prophecies about our time only very partially clear. That requires us to seek Him daily for clarity, guidance, protection.

I believe current even accurate, Holy Spirit led prophetic voices are similarly partial for essentially the same reasons--that we seek God daily, moment by moment, and that we learn to relate to each other in His Love--"that by this shall all men know that you are my disciples"--not because of agreements on doctrine, 100% accurate understanding of this or that principle . . . but by Loving one another.

42 posted on 09/30/2001 8:15:49 PM PDT by Quix
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To: LeeMcCoy; RoseofTexas; et al
YOU BLESS ME ENORMOUSLY.

Strongly concur, prayer is the goal, the need, the essential thing. . . with humility and repentant hearts.

And particularly prayer for our leaders, that The Church--believers act like it--AT LEAST toward one another--showing forth The Love of God that people might WANT to know HIM better.

43 posted on 09/30/2001 8:19:34 PM PDT by Quix
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To: epow
Even energetic respectful discourse is one thing.

hostility prone brickbats is nothing I'm interested in.

I understand your feelings and perspective.

I do believe that the OT prophets had a learning curve AND that they were not always 100% accurate but I'll leave that for you to search out as I don't have it handy and have school work to get to shortly.

I also believe that God will make His prophetic voices purer and purer in our era--that essentially--the dark will get darker and the light lighter.

HE is the one that said in His Scripture that He would not do anything without telling His prophets first.

44 posted on 09/30/2001 8:23:41 PM PDT by Quix
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To: dubyagee
Sorry, NO idea.

I'm rather ignorant of such things.

45 posted on 09/30/2001 8:25:09 PM PDT by Quix
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To: JMJ333
You may be quite ready.

If I have a slow moment, It's conceivable I might add evidence here and there but doubtful at the beginning of a semester.

I prefer to offer some things and let people glean whatever useful stuff they will. Of course others will have other uses for whatever.

46 posted on 09/30/2001 8:26:57 PM PDT by Quix
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To: Quix
The utopian comment had to do with living in harmonious communion with our enemies.

Now, the USA has been struck and we say God has lifted His hand. So He gets the credit for bad events. Why do we always find a reason for an attack, war or death? Jesus said, "There shall be wars and rumors of wars." (Matt. 24:6)

I respect your reply about revs. being 1000 years long, but to me they keep insinuating [subtly] that we are in the throws of the last times. This isn't the first time atrocites have occured, and I don't believe anyone who says these things knows any more than I do what stage of the game we're in. Call me skeptical. :)

47 posted on 09/30/2001 8:34:54 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: Quix
I will not comment on my opinion of this post, since I did not read the entire thing, yet I do believe in prophecy...since we do not understand the true nature of time, I believe that it runs backward and forward simultaneously (the Merlin thing) and that prophecies are simply "memories" of the future.

That said, were something along these lines true about the nature of time, those who pretend to understand all that there is to understand in this life surely would appear foolish, and I would also say that those who most virulently attempt to infect this discussion are probably those who are most fearful of being in the wrong.

FReegards...

48 posted on 09/30/2001 8:36:48 PM PDT by copycat
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To: Quix
That's okay. I found it. Interesting site. Read his doctrine, and I don't see too many things that I disagree with. Can't imagine why anyone would call him a "new-ager".
49 posted on 09/30/2001 8:39:17 PM PDT by dubyagee
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To: JMJ333
I am quite certain that the flat earth scholars of the 15th century would have suggested tin foil for Christopher Columbus had it been invented.
50 posted on 09/30/2001 8:43:41 PM PDT by copycat
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