Marines do it their own way

MSNBC ^ | 9/30/01 | Sue Lackey

[kattracks]

A different approach to special forces
A Marine awaits orders during urban war training exercises last week at Camp Pendleton, California.
By Sue Lackey MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR

Sept. 30 —  For the average Marine, it is both amusing and a bit galling to hear all the talk about “special forces” and their capabilities. For while the Army, Navy and Air Force have created Special Operations Commands with a unique structure, the Marine Corps has taken its basic forward deployed unit — the Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) — and trained every one in special operations tactics.

THE FAMED Delta Force is often celebrated as the nation’s most elite special operations team, but its position as a member of the the Army’s Joint Special Operations Command gives it a narrow focus restricted to counterterrorism and hostage rescue. In contrast, each MEU must be qualified in 18 separate mission areas, including counter terrorism. This broad focus in training and qualifications makes the Marine unit more versatile than any other service’s special operations forces.
       Gen. Alfred M. Gray, who served as Commandant of the Marine Corps in the early 1980s, helped create the Joint Special Operations Command. But while the command often requests Marines to flesh out its capability, the Corps is the only service which has refused to join the command at an organizational level. “It goes against the reason the Marine Corps was developed,” says a Marine officer who is a special operations specialist. “It would have forced the Corps to focus on one mission, when the nation needed an amphibious force for forcible entry, with much broader capabilities.”
       Under a recent reform of the system, traditional special operations forces forces are assigned to specific theater Commanders in Chief — for instance, the Commander in Chief, Europe or the Commander in Chief, Southern Command, which handles Latin America. East of these commands have units with specific specialties, and depend on that regional commander for support. MEU’s, however, an amphibious force that can be deployed at will to any theater. Their floating base of operations gives them the ability to sustain a mission longer than other special operations forces, which are traditionally used for short term insertions, or in the case of the Green Berets, specific insurgency training missions.
 

      The true strength of the MEUs lie in their ability to augment their forces with air and ground combat elements and combat service support. This means any given unit can call in tanks, amphibious assault vehicles, and fixed wing aircraft — all of which are part of standard MEU order of battle. Other special operations forces must rely on conventional service support when additional forces are needed.
       A perfect example of this versatility was in the 1983 Grenada invasion, where Army special forces were inserted to extract U.S. Embassy staff. The team was able to reach their target, but were then bottled up inside the embassy and unable to get out through enemy troops. The JSOC team then called for Marine support. An MEU which had been diverted to Grenada broke through with tanks and armored vehicles to extract their colleagues and the embassy personnel they had rescued.
       The way in which special operations training has been integrated into the basic structure of the Corps has changed the capabilities of the Corps as a whole. The other military services are large enough to allow their SF units to function in some degree of separation. Because the Marine Corps is so small in numbers, its SOC qualified personnel rotate on duty throughout the Corps, which has enhanced the overall quality of training and identification with special operations forces. Most of these men have now percolated to the top of the command structure. “It’s been in place so long now that a lot of the flag officers grew up with this-they’re Al Gray’s boys,” said one Marine special operations veteran. “That’s what you do not get in the other special forces, because they tend to stay in their own areas. When they do go into other units to further their careers, they have problems integrating within the conventional forces and its military bureaucracy. They don’t do well as staff officers; they want to go back to their unit.”
       That lack of experienced special forces officers at high levels to give special forces a voice allows other branches of the conventional forces to marginalize the effectiveness of special operations in budget battles and mission planning — a situation the Marine Corps has managed to avoid.

       

[Illbay]

Hogwash. It's long past time that America knows that one branch of the military didn't succumb to that Commie Clinton ...

Oh, I see. So in this time of trouble and turmoil, when Americans of every political persuasion are coming together for the common good, YOUR primary concern is that "eveyone in America" knows that Clinton was a Commie.

Oh, and that would be the America that voted for him twice, and nearly voted for him a third time, by proxy, in the person of Algore.

IOW, you think that after 8 1/2 years, Americans are finally gonna "get it" because some of the Marines' boosters (that would be yourself) want to continue a pointless p*ssing contest with the other branches of the service.

If you're haven't yet reached adulthood, please forgive what I'm about to say. But you are an adolescent moron.

We have far more at stake here than your endorphin levels. We happen to be at war, and it will take every man-jack of us--even a hyper-extenuated teenager like yourself--to pull through this thing.

And if you're trying to convince ME that our other SpecOps assets are without any merit, and ONLY the USMC can save the day, then you've failed. I happen to respect and admire ALL of our highly-trained and highly-motivated fighting men, the Marines not least of all.

Go back to your comic books. The adults have work to do.

[FlyVet]

It's long past time that America knows that one branch of the military didn't succumb to that Commie Clinton and his gang of fellow lefties on the Hill who have attempted and in some cases succeeded in weakening the United States and it's ability to defend itself.

I have to agree with you. I'll never forget when Clinton's female Deputy SECDEF got on national television, and called the Marine Corps "an extremist organization." She confirmed the idiocy of their whole mindset.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"Calling in a few friends..:))"

Reporting for duty Lady Marine!
*SALUTE!*
This tin can sailor has the utmost respect for the Marines!

[Gumlegs]

I think you misinterpret SMEDLEYBUTLER's words. The Marines have always stood apart. It is well that they do. I speak as a former naval officer who saw up close and personal what a different breed of cat they are.

The people in this country who need to grow up are the ones who think we can have Congress mandate handicapped access battlefields or that calling the nearest female a "naval aviator" makes her one.

And if SMEDLEYBUTLER will accept the salute from a cousin ... Semper Fi.

[COB1]

"And if you're trying to convince ME that our other SpecOps assets are without any merit, and ONLY the USMC can save the day, then you've failed."

Junior, we Gyrenes don't give an airborne sex act what you believe!
People like you couldn't last the first day of boot, much less a firefight.
There are some real heroes on this forum, and a lot of them are my fellow Marines.
When you step on one of their toes you step on mine and all the rest of us, and I assure you, you don't want to do that!

There has always been a rivalry between the services and there always will be. It's part of the life of being military.
Try a hitch in the Corps before you start evaluating any part of our psyche.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"There has always been a rivalry between the services and there always will be."

How very true, but what some people do not understand is that
when the fighting takes place all military,
regardless of what branch, stand together as one.
In Feb '69 my ship was involved in Operation Bold Mariner
which at that time was the largest amphibious assault since Korea.
I was injured while clearing a hangfire of a 5" willy peter round in the forward gun mount.
All we had on board was a corpsman, no MD's, so I had to go to the nearest ship with a hospital (USS Iwo Jima).
When I was in the hospital there I spoke with many wounded Marines.
And everyone of them thanked me for being a gunners mate and giving them gunfire support.

[The KG9 Kid]

General Gray was my Commandant during my term.

The difference between the Corps under Al 'Fireplug' Gray, and under P.X. Kelley his predecesor, was a very stark contrast.

Immediately following Boot Camp, I was one of the first of six SOI (School of Infantry) platoons that was selected for an experiment at Camp Geiger called 'MCT' (Marine Combat Training). They stretched us to the breaking point, then calibrated the training down a pip and instituted it in regular Basic Training called 'The Crucible'.

In USMC Basic, the 'Crucible' lasts two days. For us, it went on for eight weeks. Sleep deprivation, poor living conditions, scarce food, MOUT training, and a 21-mile road march (no roads that I saw, BTW) came at us with no warning when we thought we were going to hit the rack one evening. Two days later, we humped 21 miles back -- again with no warning. Lots of head games, physical fitness regimens, mixed with some outstanding training in weapons that even the old lifer sergeants hadn't even seen yet.

Toughest time of my life. School of Infantry training was actually a few steps down in pain, by comparison. That was when the fun came in: Amphibious assaults by LCAC (hovercrafts) and Amtracs, doing 'Jacob's Ladder' drills from Gator Navy ships, etc. All the MEU and BLT exercises.

General Gray was a son-of-a-bitch, let me tell you. I only appreciated it after MCT was over. Everyone was taken to the limits, even the instructors. I was only 20 years old then.

I'm sure I'd die if I tried to do it again at my age. :)

[A Navy Vet]

As an airdale on the USS New Orleans (LPH-11), it was an honor and a privilege to provide support and transportation for the Marine units. If only they would have left something in the ship's store to buy.

[Texas_Jarhead]

I missed MCT by one Boot cycle as I recall. DI's told us about it near graduation. Although we did participate in an experimental Rifle Qual course (can't recall it's designation) but it was interesting. It was a dynamic course, fire and move with pop-up targets. It even included a portion with gas masks dawned. I enjoyed it. Seemed much more realistic than standard Rifle Qual. course. Although I always found 500 yards challenging (hit 7 out 10 bulls at Edson Range almost scoring high enough to get my name on that Trophy in the chow hall).

Semper Fidelis

[COB1]

"all military, regardless of what branch, stand together as one."

Unless they've been military, Tonkin, they won't understand that.
The closest I can come to your experience are the bar fights we used to have with the swabbies in San Diego who were our best buddies the next night.

[riley1992]

Plus Marines have the best uniforms

There is not many a finer sight than a Marine in his dress uniform.

[Godebert]

"I don't think we really, truly understand the scope of what we are facing."

There are many things that you don't understand illbay, with the inter-service rivalry being just one. For a panty-waist like yourself to be calling Smedleybutter an "adolescent moron" is laughable. Why don't you tell us about your service record, illbay?

[OK]

General Gray was a son-of-a-bitch, let me tell you. I only appreciated it after MCT was over

I couldn't help but think about my Dad when I read that. He was a USMC lifer who survived WWII and Korea while all of his best friends didn't. As a boy I wondered why he was such a tough SOB, but of course that was what allowed him to survive and why he demanded the best efforts from others.

BTW, he is still going strong.

[Teacup]

Semper Fidelis. Yes we (Mr. Teacup and I) know these folk very well, LOL. Mr Teacup was part of the MEF.

[Teacup]

Thanks for the Semper Fidelis bump. 226 years this November 10th.

[Tailback]

I agree, the Army probably wastes more than the entire Marine Corps budget in a given fiscal year. BTW I'm a 14 year vet of the Active Army and National Guard. The Marines also have a more streamlined procurement system, and they consistently develop better and more practical gear for their soldiers.

[Illbay]

The Marines have always stood apart. It is well that they do.

I think you misunderstood MY statement. At this point, this is about as apropos as arguing who's going to win the Army-Navy game.

It ain't about the winner of the p*ssing contest these days. The only contest is with the enemy.

[Illbay]

Junior, we Gyrenes don't give an airborne sex act what you believe!

And I, in turn, don't care what you think about the folks paying your salary, so long as you get the job done.

[Illbay]

There are many things that you don't understand illbay, with the inter-service rivalry being just one.

I understand inter-service rivalry perfectly well. Go back and read my post (let me know if you need help with the long words).

What I said was, there is a time and a place for everything, and NOW is not the time, and the MIDDLE EAST is not the place, for a stupid-*ss teenage p*ssing contest.

[kcvl]

Do you mean that the commies didn't make them sew 'diversity quilts' like they did the CIA? I'm still trying to figure out who made them 'paste, color, and sew' these quilts. I would have QUIT! Welcome to the SICKO world of 'sensitivity training'. Seven thousand people gave their lives because of it and I want someone to pay! To start the list of SICKOS...
Bill Clinton
Hillary Clinton
Al Gore
Madeline Albright
Sandy Berger
Janet Reno