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Michael Medved Blames Islam
Michael Medved talkshow (radio) | now 01 Oct 2001 | Michael Medved Show (radio)

Posted on 10/01/2001 12:35:49 PM PDT by newzjunkey

"Not all religions are the same. They're not all good."

"Christianity [is good and] should be contrasted with Islam and its impact."

"On what basis could you justify suicide mass killing everywhere."

He claims it's justified in Islam (by Bin Ladin) because the US is seen as a warzone, just as bombings in Israel are justified by Islamics, even those who condemn the WTC attacks because Israel is a warzone.


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Sounds like he blames Islam.

Tune in now. Heard nationally on over 140 stations.

1 posted on 10/01/2001 12:35:49 PM PDT by newzjunkey
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To: newzjunkey
a Medved bump
but I must go off line and listen while I do some other things will check the thread later.
2 posted on 10/01/2001 12:39:55 PM PDT by Free the USA
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: newzjunkey
Why do Muslim extremists act this way?

Are Muslims inherently inhumane, savage and evil?- of course not. Muslims are ordinary people, just like anybody else. They are fathers, brothers and sons. They could be doctors, engineers and lawyers. They are your co-workers, and your next door neighbors. Violence is committed by a minority of Muslim extremists.

So, what goes on their minds when they act violently?

To understand this one must understand an important and dangerous Islamic teaching called "Jihad" ( or Holy war).

It is important to understand that not every Arab is a Muslim , not every Muslim is an Arab, and not every Muslim is a extremist. We are not trying to attack a group of people here, nor are we trying to attack a religion. We are only exposing a teaching in a religion that could have a serious effect on society.

It is also important to know that in exercising Jihad, Muslim extremists may not think they are trying to maliciously hurt others, but rather they are only obeying God's commandments. And in doing so, they are assuring themselves a place in Paradise.


Jihad (Holy War)

Jihad is one of many sacred duties Muslims perform. The word "Jihad" is an Arabic word which means "struggle". Jihad can mean striving to be a better Muslim, but it can also mean fighting in the name of Allah. In this sense Jihad is the struggle for the cause of spreading Islam, using all means available to Muslims, including force. This kind of Jihad is often referred to as "Holy War".

In resorting to force, Muslims will not have any problem finding passages in the Quran (believed by Muslims to be Allah's word), and the Hadith (Mohammed's sayings as recorded by Al Bukhari), that will not only condone violence, but will also demand it.


Jihad in the "Quran"

Allah orders Muslims in the Quran to terrorize non-Muslims on His behalf:

"Strike terror (into the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies" Surah 8:60

"Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and Allah will punish (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame" Surah 9:14

"I will instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah" Surah 8:12, 17.

Jihad in the "Hadith"

In the Hadith Mohammed also urges Muslims to practice Jihad.

Mohammed once was asked: what is the best deed for the Muslim next to believing in Allah and His Apostle? His answer was :

"To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause" Al Bukhari vol. 1:25

Mohammed was quoted as saying:

"I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah" Al Bukhari vol. 4:196

Mohammed also said:

"The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to paradise (if he is killed)." Al Bukhari vol. 1:35.

Mohammed: an Example

When the ‘prophet' of Islam started preaching his new religion in Mecca, he was conciliatory to Christians and Jews. He told them: "We believe in what has been sent down to us and sent down to you, our God is the same as your God" Surah 29:45. This attitude changed completely after he gained strength. Allah then tells him to:

"Fight People of the Book (Christians and Jews), who do not accept the religion of the truth (Islam), until they pay tribute (penalty tax) by hand, being inferior." Surah 9:29

Regarding Christians and Jews, it seems that Mohammed hated the Jews more. During his life time, Mohammed devoted much of his efforts to get rid of the Jews: "You (Jews) should know that the earth belongs to Allah and his apostle, and I want to expel you from this land (the Arabian Peninsula), so, if anyone owns property, he is permitted to sell it" Mohammed was quoted.

At that time there were in Medina three Jewish tribes. Two of them, the Qaynqa and the Bani-al-Nudair tribes, were besieged by Mohammed's men, blocking their access to food supplies, until they surrendered on Mohammed's terms, which were that their lives would be spared, that they must emigrate from Medina, and that they must deposit all their belongings at a certain place for distribution among Muslims.

The third tribe, Bani Qurayza, was not as lucky. After the War of the Trench , in which Mohammed was besieged by the Qurayshites led, by Abu Sofyan, it was alleged that Bani Qurayza agreed to provide help from within to Abu Sofyan's forces. Although the alleged help did not materialize and the siege eventually ended, nevertheless, Mohammed never forgave them for their willingness to help his enemies.

Muslims turned against Bani Qurayza and blocked their streets for twenty five days. The Jewish tribe expressed readiness to accept the surrender terms which had been conceded to the other two Jewish tribes, namely cession of their belongings and departure with safe conduct.

Mohammed, however, would not consent to this, and instead appointed as an arbiter Saad iben Moaz, a man who was known to be on bad terms with Bani Qurayza. Saad ruled that all Bani Qurayza's men should be beheaded, that the women and children should be sold as slaves, and that all their property should be divided among the Muslims. Trenches were dug in the bazaar of Medina for disposal of the nine hundred Jewish bodies whom Mohammed had spent the night slaughtering. (See Ibn Hisham: The Prophet's Biography ; vol. 2 pages 40 & 41)

If Islam Ruled America

Islam is more than a religion; It is a comprehensive way of life. The Quran (believed by Muslims to be God's word), and the Hadith (Mohammed's sayings as recorded by Al Bukhari), prescribe numerous regulations governing every aspect of the social, political, economical, as well as religious life. The belief that "Islam is a religion and a state" is an integral part of the Islamic religion.

Let's examine what Islam would do if it ruled America. What would happen to the values and institutions that we hold dear?


First: Liberty

The United States was built on the Bill of Rights, established by the founding fathers who came here to escape religious oppression. The Constitution gives citizens the right to express themselves as they please, to criticize the president if they believe he is wrong, to worship in the way they want and to act in any way they see appropriate as long as they don't violate the rights of others.

What would happen to this freedom in an Islamic state? Would the citizens be granted the right to choose the religion they want, or would they be forced into Islam according to the Quranic verse: "If any one desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him, and in the hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost." (Surah 3:85). How about the right of a Muslim to change his own religion? Would he be given this right or would he be punished according to the apostasy rule which states that such a person should be punished by death? Mohammed said "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." Al Bukhari Vol. 9:57

Do Muslim activists want us to have the same rights granted to the citizens of an Islamic country such as Saudi Arabia, where women are not allowed to drive an automobile and no one can worship openly according to any religion other than Islam? Do they want us to be ruled by a ruler such as Khomeini, who issued an order to murder a writer, Salman Rushdie, just because he dared to criticize Islam ? Even in a moderate Islamic state such as Egypt, Christians have to obtain a presidential decree to be able to build a church,or even to repair a toilet in a church. They face discrimination in all aspects of their lives, including education, employment and promotions.


Second: Democracy

Our present system in the USA gives the citizens the right to rule themselves, to write the laws that will govern their lives, to decide the amount of taxes to be collected from them and how it will be spent.

One important principle in this great system is the separation of church and state. Islam, however, is built on an opposing concept, for "Islam is a religion and a state." According to Islam, the Quran is the principal source of legislation: "We have sent down to thee the book in truth, that you might judge men as guided by God." (Surah 4:105). If the Quran is the law, what are some of the rules and regulations that will be imposed? Here are just a few examples:

Stealing: punished by hand amputation (Surah 5:38)

Adultery: punished by public flogging (Surah 24:2)

Drinking: punished by 40 or 80 lashes (Al Bukhari 8:77

Resisting Islam: punished by death, crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet (Surah 5:33)


Prisons in Muslim countries are known to be centers of torture rather than rehabilitation.

Third: Equality

Under our system in the United States, there should be no discrimination among citizens based on sex, color, religion or race. Would Islam treat men and women equally when:

It teaches that men are superior to women (Surah 2:228)

It gives men double the share of the women in inheritance? (Surah 4:11)

It gives the man double the value of a woman's witness in court? (Surah 2:282)


Would Islam treat non-Muslims fairly when:

The Quran calls on Muslims not to befriend Jews or Christians? (Surah 9:30)

The Quran imposes "Jizya" (tribute tax) on Christians and Jews that will be collected only from them and not from Muslims? (Surah 9:29)

Mohammed says that a Muslim may not be killed if he kills a non- Muslim." No Muslim should be killed for killing a kafir (infidel or non- Muslim)."
Al Bukhari Vol. 9:50


Could Islam someday rule America?

Islam is the fastest growing religion in America. Today, the number of followers of Islam in the United States has reached 4 to 6 millions. It is a matter of time before Islam will become the religion of the majority. America, then will be labeled an " Islamic country ", ruled by the "Quran" and the "Hadith" or what Muslims call Sharia (The Islamic code of ethics)


"They do blaspheme who say Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is no god except One Alah". Surah 5:73

"And behold! God will say: O Jesus the son of Mary didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah? He (Jesus) will say: Glory to thee, never could I say what I had no right (to say)". Surah 5:116

"(Both) the Jews and the Christians say, 'We are sons of Allah and His beloved'. Say: why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, you are but men of the men He has created". Surah 5:18

"O People of the book! Commit no excess in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but truth, Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him. So believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not 'Trinity': desist! It will be better for you. For Allah is One Allah. Glory be to Him: (Far exalted is He) above having a son." Surah 4:171

"In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: who then hath the least power against Allah if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all - everyone that is on earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is in between... For Allah hath power over all things." Surah 5:17

"O people of the book (Christians) commit no excess in your religion: nor say of God aught but truth, Christ Isa the son of Mary was (No more than) an apostle of God." Surah 4: 171

"That they said (in boast) "we killed Christ Isa, the son of Mary"...but they killed him not, nor crucified him." Surah 4:157

"That they said (in boast), . We killed Christ Jesus, the Son of Mary. ,,,but they killed him not, nor crucified him." Surah 4:157

"Then We (God) sent to her Our Angel (in the original: Our spirit), and he appeared before her as a man in all respects." Surah 19:17

"Say the Holy Spirit (The Angel Gabriel) has brought the revelation from thy Lord in truth." Surah 16:102


THE "ALLAH" OF ISLAM

In theory Allah in the Quran has 99 names or attributes such as: Omniscient, Omnipotent, Sublime, Living, Everlasting, Holy, Light, Creator, Powerful...etc. In reality, however, the Quran paints a picture of Allah that in many ways resembles Mohammed's own personality.

Whatever Mohammed wanted, Allah wanted for him. However Mohammed reacted, Allah reacted for him. Aisha, (one of Mohammed's 13 wives) was quoted as saying to Mohammed scornfully:


"O Allah's Apostle, I do not see but that your Lord hurries in pleasing you." Al-Bukhari Vol 7:48

Here are just a few examples: When Abu Lahab criticized Mohammed, telling him, . Perish you, Mohammed! Did you invite us here for this?, Allah immediately sends down Surah 111 to condemn both Abu Lahab and his wife.

"Perish the hands of the Father of Flane (Abu Lahab). Burnt soon will he be in fire of blazing flame. His wife shall carry the wood as fuel."

When Al Walid Ibn Almoghira and Omaya Ibn Khalaf mocked Mohammed and boasted of their wealth, Allah sends down Surah 104 rebuking them.

"Woe to every (kind of) scandal-monger and backbiter who pileth up wealth and layeth it by, thinking that wealth would make last forever. He will be sure to be thrown into the fire (of the wrath) of Allah kindled (to a blaze)."

When Mohammed fell in love with Zaynab, wife of his adopted son (Zaid), God approved of divorcing her from Zaid and joined her in marriage to Mohammed: -


"Then, when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her We joined her in marriage to thee, in order that there might be no difficulty to the believers in marriage to wives of their adopted sons." Surah 33:37

When Mohammed's wives demanded higher allowances out of the booty taken from the massacred Banu Qorayza Jewish tribe, God settled it by telling the wives to either be content with their present allowance or face divorce. (See Surah 33:28 & 29)

When Hafsa caught Mohammed, in her bed, making love to his concubine Mariya, Mohammed tried to please angry Hafsa by promising her that he will stay away from Mariya. At this point Allah intervenes in Mohammed's behalf: -

"O Prophet why holdest thou to be forbidden that which God has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is oft forgiving, most merciful." Surah 66:1

Islam teaches revenge.

"If any one transgress the prohibition against you, transgress likewise against him." Surah 2:194

Islam does not treat women and men as equal.

"To the male a portion equal to that of two females." Surah 4:11

Islam allows men to beat their wives.

"... As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them ." Surah 4:34

Islam imposes harsh punishment on wrongdoers.

*A thief is punished by the amputation of hands. Surah 5:38
*A drunk is punished by 80 lashes. Hadith vol. 8:770
*An adulterer is punished by 100 lashes. Surah 24:2


Islam must be imposed by force, if necessary.

"And fight them on, until there is no more tumult (seduction) or oppression, and there prevail justice, and faith in God (and the religion becomes Islam)." Surah 2:193

Apostasy from Islam is punishable by death.

"Whoever changes his (Islamic) religion, kill him." Hadith vol. 9:5

Terrorism is the only way.

"And if you are slain, or die in the way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass." Surah 3:157

4 posted on 10/01/2001 12:42:08 PM PDT by freedom_from_socialism
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To: newzjunkey
Geroge W. Bush said (paraphrasing), "In the battle between good and evil, God is not neutral."
5 posted on 10/01/2001 12:42:28 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Medved earlier questioned why we assume "Allah" is the God of Judaism and Christianity. He pointed out that (paraphrase) "unlike Moses and Jesus, Mohammed was a warrior." And said Allah is a warrior God.

I've never heard anyone question whether the God, Allah, of Islam is the same as Christianity or Judaism. Not the Rabbi last night on KFI-LA, not my world religion teacher back in Catholic high school.

6 posted on 10/01/2001 12:47:17 PM PDT by newzjunkey
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To: newzjunkey
Michael Medved Blames Islam.

_________________________________

So does India>

>

>Click thumbnail for larger picture

Firefighters carry a bag containing a body of a victim of a car bomb explosion in Srinagar, India, Monday, Oct. 1, 2001. Suspected Islamic militants exploded a car bomb near the entrance to the state legislature Monday, then rushed into the building for a gunfight with security forces that left staff members trapped inside. At least 25 people were killed and 50 wounded, police said.(AP Photo/Aijaz Rahi)
- Oct 01 9:20 AM ET

EDITORS NOTE: GRAPHIC CONTENT--Bodies lie in a pool of blood soon after a car bomb exploded in Srinagar, India, Monday, Oct. 1, 2001. At least 15 people - civilian and paramilitary soldiers - were killed in the explosion near the entrance of the state legislature. A suspected Islamic militant drove the car to the assembly building and blew it up just after most of the legislators had left a meeting there, police said. (AP Photo/ Rafiq Maqbool)
- Oct 01 8:25 AM ET

EDITORS NOTE: GRAPHIC CONTENT--Bodies of civilians lie in a pool of blood soon after a car bomb exploded in Srinagar, India, Monday, Oct. 1, 2001. At least 15 people - civilian and paramilitary soldiers - were killed in the explosion near the entrance of the state legislature. A suspected Islamic militant drove the car to the assembly building and blew it up just after most of the legislators had left a meeting there, police said. (AP Photo/ Rafiq Maqbool)
- Oct 01 8:23 AM ET

EDITORS NOTE: GRAPHIC CONTENT--Firefighters carry a body of an unidentified person killed in a car bomb explosion in Srinagar, India, Monday, Oct. 1, 2001. At least 15 people - civilian and paramilitary soldiers - were killed in the explosion near the entrance of the state legislature. A suspected Islamic militant drove the car to the assembly building and blew it up just after most of the legislators had left a meeting there, police said. (AP Photo/Aijaz Rahi)
- Oct 01 8:01 AM ET


7 posted on 10/01/2001 12:48:11 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: Cavalry
"Medved is an anti-islamite...Or is there such a word? "

Anti-Islamist if you please, I know ,I'm one of them. And considering Mr. Medved is Jewish can you really blame him? These "peace lovin'" Mohammedans (they love being called that) have been trying to slaughter his people for how many years? Since 9-11-01 I can see why the Jews might be a little miffed at these slobs.

8 posted on 10/01/2001 12:48:35 PM PDT by nofriendofbills
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To: newzjunkey (GEt bin Laden, over and out)
Michael, Michael, the USA should not be the next tag-team participant in some holy war that has going on in that area for some 1000-4000 years. It could go on for thousands more. The USA does not belong in the holy war business. Let's get bin Laden, then over and out.
9 posted on 10/01/2001 12:49:50 PM PDT by ex-snook
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: newzjunkey
To: afraidfortherepublic Medved earlier questioned why we assume "Allah" is the God of Judaism and Christianity. He pointed out that (paraphrase) "unlike Moses and Jesus, Mohammed was a warrior." And said Allah is a warrior God. I've never heard anyone question whether the God, Allah, of Islam is the same as Christianity or Judaism. Not the Rabbi last night on KFI-LA, not my world religion teacher back in Catholic high school.

Al'ah is not the Jewish/Christian God. He is an Arabic pagan god the moon god specifically. He has NO relationship to Yahweh whatsoever.

11 posted on 10/01/2001 12:57:50 PM PDT by nofriendofbills
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To: newzjunkey
Micheal Reagan very insightfully stated the other day that

"Although most muslims are not terrorists, most terrorists are muslims !" .

I think the muslim community in the US should be should be spending more time telling their youth to join the armed forces to prove their patriotism, and less time insinuating that guys like me are racists.

12 posted on 10/01/2001 12:58:20 PM PDT by SENTINEL
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To: ex-snook
Let's get bin Laden, then over and out.

That will not end the jihad. It is a cause in and of itself. Look at the twelve year old boys dancing in the street: There is your next generation of suicide bombers.

This is not something we can skirt. We are going to have to stop deluding ourselves as to the magnitude of the problem. Twenty percent of the world's population thinks killing Americans is the will of some pagan god. That is a huge problem.

13 posted on 10/01/2001 12:59:53 PM PDT by hopespringseternal
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: freedom_from_socialism, Illbay, American Soldier, Hoplite, vooch, Putnik_1915, Travis McGee, Lent
I like to use the words of Muslims rather than spinning it. See how in this article Muslims view conquests of non-Muslims as liberating them.

The Liberation of Constantinople

[This article was published in the 14th issue of Nida'ul Islam magazine (http://www.islam.org.au), July-September 1996]

Narrated `Abdullah Bin Bashar Al Khath`amy according to his father that he heard the prophet (peace and blessings upon him) saying: "You will liberate Constantinople, blessed is the Amir who is its Amir, and blessed is the army, that army." (narrated by Imam Ahmad)

In this manner fell the city of Heracle which stood stubbornly in front of the Muslims for eight centuries... So they entered it erasing the Bizantine government opening the doors of Europe for the call of Islam. They recorded a white page in our history, realising the promise of the messenger of Allah (s.a.w.) as when he was asked which of the two cities would be liberated first, Constantinople or Rome, he said: "The city of Heracle (i.e. Constantinople) would be liberated first." [Ahmad, authenticated by Al Albany].

By Br. Muhammad El-Halaby

15 posted on 10/01/2001 1:04:08 PM PDT by Pericles
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To: newzjunkey
Islam is approximately 600 years younger than Christianity and this makes all the difference. So, if we want compare religions let us compare apples vs apples, let us compare Christianity circa 1400 with modern Islam.

The question is what to do about it now?

16 posted on 10/01/2001 1:05:49 PM PDT by alex
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To: newzjunkey
And ya'll will be just pleased as punch to learn that he is a leading defender of Bill Maher. Yup, on Thursday of BM (defend Bill Maher) Week, Medved not only let Maher ramble for an hour and a half without interruption, Medved engaged in the sleaziest soliloqy of high dudgeon I've heard in a long time.

Medved grovelled before Maher, kissing the ground he walked on. I was disgusted, I can't listen to Medved anymore.

17 posted on 10/01/2001 1:07:02 PM PDT by spudsmaki
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To: newzjunkey
Good for him...the truth needs to be said..all religions are not equal
18 posted on 10/01/2001 1:09:21 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: randalcousins, Kate22, crazykatz, bluester, Torie, Hamiltonian, Gael, cicero
I like to use the words of Muslims rather than spinning it. See how in this article Muslims view conquests of non-Muslims as liberating them.

The Liberation of Constantinople

[This article was published in the 14th issue of Nida'ul Islam magazine (http://www.islam.org.au), July-September 1996]

Narrated `Abdullah Bin Bashar Al Khath`amy according to his father that he heard the prophet (peace and blessings upon him) saying: "You will liberate Constantinople, blessed is the Amir who is its Amir, and blessed is the army, that army." (narrated by Imam Ahmad)

In this manner fell the city of Heracle which stood stubbornly in front of the Muslims for eight centuries... So they entered it erasing the Bizantine government opening the doors of Europe for the call of Islam. They recorded a white page in our history, realising the promise of the messenger of Allah (s.a.w.) as when he was asked which of the two cities would be liberated first, Constantinople or Rome, he said: "The city of Heracle (i.e. Constantinople) would be liberated first." [Ahmad, authenticated by Al Albany].

By Br. Muhammad El-Halaby

19 posted on 10/01/2001 1:09:26 PM PDT by Pericles
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To: freedom_from_socialism
The citations "proving" that the Koran requires Muslims to kill non-Muslims reminded me of the following exchange that occurred on a different thread: Got me to wondering about the context of the quotations presented by freedom_from_socialism. Any Koran students know?

(Chuckmorse wrote)"Islam views the world as divided between the "Dar es Salaam" or the House of Peace, which is Islamic, and the "Dar el-Harb" or the House of War, which is non-Islamic." (Chuckmorse)

(John Locke responded)"That should be, respectively, Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb."

(John Locke continued)"And what about this quotation?

"When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters (non-Muslims) wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent (convert) and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." Sura 9:5

(John Locke says further)"Well, let's look at the context. Here is the verse above: at-Taubah 9:4: "Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty."

"In other words, you attack only those "infidel" who have broken their treaties or who have supported your enemies. Again,I doubt any Freeper would object.

(Jon Locke continues)"The sura continues:

at-Taubah 9:7: "And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not."

(John Locke says)"Gee, Islam actually calls for protecting the "infidels" in your power and giving them safe conduct. Who'da thunk it?:"

at-Taubah 9:7 "How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His messenger for the idolaters save those with whom ye made a treaty at the Inviolable Place of Worship ? So long as they are true to you, be true to them. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty."

(John Locke says)"Again, Moslems are told to keep their agreements with "infidels". The Koran requires formal treaties to be made in a Place of Worship, as a further reminder that they are sacred.

"As in any religion, there are fools, fanatics, and criminals. But Mr Morse (who evidently knows no Arabic) is here clearly distorting what the Koran teaches by his selective (and inaccurate) quotation. And I'm sure this is deliberate."

17 Posted on 09/23/2001 20:17:09 PDT by John Locke http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3bae42c64ffe.htm

20 posted on 10/01/2001 1:09:36 PM PDT by Tamly
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: alex
Islam is approximately 600 years younger than Christianity and this makes all the difference. So, if we want compare religions let us compare apples vs apples, let us compare Christianity circa 1400 with modern Islam

600 years ago there were no nukes,or planes...or electricity for Petes skes..it is time for them to grow up!

Fox had a piece on showing them "training" the young boys for war and death for allah...then their parents will get $15,000 for their death..

So I dont want to hear one more word about the "poor little boys " getting killed by Jewish soldiers..their "babies" were screaming death and hatred..

If you live by the sword you die by it

22 posted on 10/01/2001 1:16:52 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: newzjunkey
"...unlike Moses and Jesus, Mohammed was a warrior. And said Allah is a warrior God.

But Moses was a warrior. Hasn't Mr. Medved read Numbers in the Old Testament? Moses led the Israelites against the Canaanites, the Amorites, the Bashanites, the Midianties, and all the rest. That makes the God of Moses a warrior God as well since he is given credit for delivering the enemies of Israel over for defeat.

23 posted on 10/01/2001 1:18:01 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: newzjunkey
Every point by Medved makes total sense. He is qouting the Koran while making his points and no one yet has proven otherwise. This is an exercise in looking for an answer and proof that Islam is a peaceful religion. So far nobody has made a good case.
24 posted on 10/01/2001 1:21:56 PM PDT by KC_Conspirator
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To: newzjunkey
I will tell you that the god of Muhammed was not they God of the Bible. You really do not have to study too far to find that out. A transcript of God's character is shown in the 10 commandment law, and the allah of the Quran does not stand by that at all. The God of the bible tells us what sin is, and allah has different rules to live by, different sins. The worst sin in Islam is supposed to be the belief in polytheism, which includes the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. In other words, it is better to be a murderer than a believer in Jesus Christ as the Gon of God. Allah claims that Satan is made of smokeless fire, and the bible tells us that Lucifer is a fallen angel, who rebelled, and was kicked out of heaven with one third of the angels. The Quran teaches that allah told the angels to bow to Adam, and that all did, and only Shaitan (Lucifer) refused. The bible teaches that angels are higher than mankind, not lower, and they do not bow to any man. Jesus teaches that in heaven, there is no marriage, and that we shall be as the angels. The angels are created beings, and they do not give birth, and they are neither male nor female. The angels in the bible were given male names, non the less. Jesus teaches love, to even love your enemies, and this is foreign to allah. Allah calls his followers "slaves" and God of the bible calls men his "children" who follow him, and he tells them they are heirs to his kingdom. The bible teaches that Jesus will come again, and Islam teaches that too. But Islam says that Jesus never did die at all, and that God took him to heaven where he is now, but Islam says that Jesus will come, then follow muhammed, then live 40 years and then die. Allah teaches that every man in Paradise will have at least 72 virgins and lots of slaves. The bible has no Slaves in heaven, only God's children. Allah teaches that men will have sex in heaven with all those virgins. It is said that the worst muslim will have at least 72 of them. I have not meant to teach or preach, only to bring out some points of differences. The most telling thing to me was that Islam believes that Jesus never died, never shed his blood for sin. We were bought with a price, our sins are covered if we repent. As far as the Jewish belief goes, Muhammed changed much of history to his liking, even though he was not there, and claims it was Ishmael, whom Abraham was going to sacrifice instead of Issac. Muhammed said that this occurred at Mecca, instead of Mt. Moriah, which is the Temple Mount, that the bible speaks about. Ok, this is enough if you want to check it out, and I do say that allah is not any God that I ever knew or hope to know. I find the Quran to be somewhat boring, and aside from that, there are hadiths, which were supposedly written by people who knew Muhammed many, many years after his death. Even scholars say that there are true hadiths and false hadiths, so no wonder there is so much misunderstandings in Islam. I am a little bit dismayed when some who know nothing about Islam tries to tell us it is a peaceful religion, when they know absolutely nothing about it. It is a good idea to check things out for yourself, and I do suggest this, and to know the truth. The truth sets us free.
25 posted on 10/01/2001 1:22:35 PM PDT by tessalu
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To: Headlong
Looks like you're building a really good profile there, but you forgot Arab, non-citizen, and 5'6" - 6'0". Now that we know what to look for, do we call it racial profiling?
26 posted on 10/01/2001 1:25:39 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: freedom_from_socialism
Bump
27 posted on 10/01/2001 1:29:19 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: Tamly
And this was my response to Locke:

And you need to quit white-washing the Koran and understand the early and late suras. Moreover, the main problem with Islam is with its hermeneutics. The Koran and Mohammed's words are not conditioned. This theology of the incontrovertible Koran with a medieval hermeneutics has been a pervasive and unrelenting problem with Islam:

EARLY ATTITUDES: Muhammad and the Koran

The Koran has been divided into early and late Suras, the Meccan and Medinan Suras respectively. Most of the tolerant sentiments of Muhammad are to be found in the early, Meccan Suras:

cix "Recite: O Unbelievers, I worship not what you worship, and you do not worship what I worship. I shall never worship what you worship. Neither will you worship what I worship. To you your religion, to me my religion l.45 "We well know what the infidels say: but you are not to compel them."

xliii. 88,89 "And [Muhammad] says, "O Lord, these are people who do not believe." Bear with them and wish them 'Peace '. In the end they shall know their folly."

The exceptions are to be found in Sura ii, which is usually considered Medinan i.e. late:

ii.256 "There is no compulsion in religion";

ii.62"Those who believe [i.e.Muslims] and those who follow the Jewish scriptures, and the Christians and the Sabians, and who believe in God and the Last Day and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."

Unfortunately, as he gained in confidence and increased his political and military power, Muhammad turned from being a "persuader to being a legislator and warrior, dictating obedience." The Medinan chapters such as Suras ix, v, iv, xxii, xlvii, viii, and ii reveal Muhammad at his most belligerent, dogmatic and intolerant.

Muslim theologians are unanimous in declaring that no religious toleration was extended to the idolaters of Arabia at the time of Muhammad. The only choice given them was death or the acceptance of Islam. This total intolerance never seems to be taken into consideration by the apologists of Islam when they lay claims to Islamic tolerance. Unbelievers in general are shown no mercy in the Koran which is full of lurid descriptions of the punishments awaiting them. xxii.9:"As for the unbelievers for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skins shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron- rods. The Koran also enjoins all Muslims to fight and kill non-believers: xlvii.4: "When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives."

They are also accused of worshipping Jesus as the son of God, and like the Jews, they have been led astray and must be brought back to the true religion, that is, Islam.

According to the Koran, Jews have intense hatred of all true Muslims, and as a punishments for their sins, some of them had, in the past, been changed into apes and swine (Sura v.63), and others will have their hands tied to their necks and be cast into the Fire on Judgment day. The attitude enjoined upon the Muslims towards the Jews can only be described as anti-Semitic, and certainly was not conducive to a better understanding, tolerance or co- existence.

v.51: Believers, do not take Jews or Christians as friends They are but one another's friends. If anyone of you takes them for his friends, then he is surely one of them. God will not guide evil-doers."

v.56_64: O Believers, do not take as your friends the infidels or those who received the Scriptures before you [Jews and Christians] and who scoff and jest at your religion, but fear God if you are believers. Nor those who when you call them to prayer, make it an object of mirth and derision This is only because they are a people who do not understand. Say: "People of the Book: isn't it true that you hate us simply because we believe in God, and in what He has sent down to us, and in what He has revealed to others before; and because most of you are evil doers?" "Why don't their rabbis and doctors of lax forbid them from uttering sinful words and eating unlawful food? Evil indeed are their works. "The hand of God is chained up", claim the Jews. Their own hands shall be chained up -- and they shall be cursed for saying such a thing."

Jews are often accused, in the Koran, of perverting the scriptures, and holding doctrines they never held:

ix.29,30:"Declare war upon those to whom the Scriptures were revealed but believe neither in God nor the Last Day, and who do not forbid that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who refuse to acknowledge the true religion [Islam] until they pay the poll-tax without reservation and are totally subjugated. "The Jews claim that Ezra is a son of God, and the Christians say, "the Messiah is a son of God. "Those are their claims which do indeed resemble the sayings of the Infidels of Old. May God do battle with them! How they are deluded!"

And they deserve fully any punishment they get:

ii.61:"Wretchedness and baseness were stamped upon them [That is the Jews] and they drew on themselves the wrath of God. This was because they [the Jews] disbelieved the signs of God and slew the Prophets unjustly, and because they rebelled and transgressed."

iv.160,161: Because of the wickedness of certain Jews, and because they turn many from the way of God, We have forbidden them good and wholesome foods which were formerly allowed them; and because they have taken to usury, though they were forbidden it; and have cheated others of their possessions, We have prepared a grievous punishment for the Infidels amongst them."

Such are some of the sentiments expressed in the Koran, which remains for all Muslims, and not just" fundamentalists", the uncreated word of God Himself. It is valid for all times and places, its ideas are, according to all Muslims, absolutely true and beyond any criticism. I have already described the treatment of the Jews by Muhammad, whose behaviour is certainly not above reproach. The cold-blooded extermination of the Banu Qurayza (between 600 and 900 men), the expulsion of the Nadir and their later massacre (something often overlooked in the history books) are not signs of magnanimity or compassion. His treatment of the Jews of the oasis of Khaybar served "as a model for the treaties granted by the Arab conquerors to the conquered peoples in territories beyond Arabia. "Muhammad attacked the oasis in 628, had one of the leaders tortured to find the hidden treasures of the tribe, and then when the Jews surrendered, agreed to let them continue cultivating their oasis only if they gave him half their produce. Muhammad also reserved the right to cancel the treaty and expel the Jews whenever he liked. This treaty or agreement was called a DHIMMA, and those who accepted it were known as DHIMMIS.

All non-Muslims who accepted Muslim supremacy and agreed to pay a tribute, in return for "Muslim protection", will be referred to as dhimmis henceforth. The second caliph Umar later expelled the Jews and the Christians from the Hijaz (containing the holy cities of Mecca and Medina) in 640, referring to the dhimma of Khaybar. He is said to have quoted the Prophet on the right to cancel any pact he wished, and the Prophet's famous saying: "Two religions shall not remain together in the peninsula of the Arabs. "To this day, the establishment of any other religion in Saudi Arabia is forbidden.

JIHAD – PAST AND PRESENT.

The word Jihad comes from the Arabic word jahada, which as Lane in his celebrated Arabic –English Lexicon points out, means "He strove, laboured, or toiled; exerted himself or his power or efforts or endeavours or ability" Jihad, continues Lane, "properly signifies using or exerting, one's utmost power, efforts, endeavours, or ability, in contending with an object of disapprobation, and this of three kinds, namely, a visible enemy, the devil, and one’s self; all of which are included in the Koran sura xxii.78. …Jihad came to be used by the Muslims to signify generally he fought, warred, or waged war, against unbelievers and the like ."[1] [Emphasis added]

As Tyan in his article in the EI² (Djihad, I.538 ff.) makes clear, "in law, according to general doctrine and in historical tradition, the jihad consists of military action with the object of the expansion of Islam and, if need be, of its defence"[emphasis added]. Tyan expressly rules out the thesis of a wholly apologetic character, according to which Islam relies on peaceful expansion, and that jihad is only authorized in cases of self-defence. This thesis ignores entirely the doctrines developed by Muslim theologians, the historical tradition, as well as texts of the Koran and sunna. Another scholar, Rudolph Peters [2], also emphasizes that Classical Muslim Koran interpretation regarded the Sword Verses of the Koran (see below), with uncoditional command to fight the unbelievers,as having abrogated all previous verses concerning relations with non-Muslims.

Koran VIII.60

Here are some hadith from Bukhari, Muslim and other traditionists:

Bukhari [3] LI.1: "Verily Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for theirs (in return) is Paradise.They fight in His cause, so they kill (others) and are killed…"[using forms of the verb " qatala" = to kill]

Bukhari:[4] LI.2 "Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah’s Messenger saying, "The example of a Mujahid in Allah’s cause – and Allah knows better who really strives in His cause – is like a person who fasts and prays continuously.Allah guarantees that He will admit the Mujahid in His Cause into Paradise if he is killed, otherwise He will return him to his home safely with rewards and war booty."

Bukhari: [5] LI. 6 Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet said, ‘Nobody who dies and finds good from Allah …would wish to come back to this world even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it, except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom,would like to come back to the world and get killed again."

Bukhari: [6] LI.22.Narrated Al-Mughira bin Shu’ba:: Our Prophet told us about the message of our Lord that "… whoever amongst us is killed will go to Paradise"

‘Umar asked the Prophet, ‘Is it not true that our men who are killed will go to Paradise and theirs will go to the fire?’ The Prophet said ‘Yes ’.

Narrated ‘Abdullah bin Abi Aufa, Allah’s Messenger said, "Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords." [meaning « under the protection of swords."]

Bukhari: [7] Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Messenger said, "Allah welcomes two men with a smile; one whom kills the other and both of them enter Paradise. One fights in Allah’s cause and gets killed. Later on Allah forgives the killer who also gets martyred (in Allah’s cause)."

Bukhari [8]: Narrated as-Sa’b bin Jaththama: The Prophet passed by me at a place called al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They are from them." [i.e. the women and children are also pagans, hence it is permissible to kill them. However there are other hadith which do forbid the killing of women and children.]

Even a cursory glance at the chapter on Jihad (Vol.IV, pp. 34-199) in Bukhari is enough to show that real battles, deaths, wounds, horses, swords, arrows, prisoners of war, looting, booty, burning and destruction are being referred to. Hadith after hadith recount in horrible details as to how the Jihad against infidels was to be carried out; no they do not talk of metaphorical battles, or allegorical, spiritual struggles, but bloody war.

Sunan Abu Dawud,[9] Kitab al –Jihad:

(2632) Ayas b.Salamah reported on the authority of his father: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed Abu Bakr our commander and we fought with some people who were polytheists, and we attacked them at night, killing them. Our war-cry that night was ‘ put to death; put to death’. Salamah said: "I killed that night with my hand polytheists belonging to seven houses."

(2664) Samurah b. Jundub reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: « Kill the old men who are polytheists, but spare their children."[10]

Sahih Muslim [11] (4292); The Messenger of Allah made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water.He killed those who fought and imprisoned the others.

Sahih Muslim: (4294) If they (the enemy) refuse to accept Islam, demand from the Jizya; If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them.

Averroes [12]: "Scholars agree that jihad is collective not a personal obligation.... According to the majority of scholars, the compulsory nature of the jihad is founded on sura 2:216 ‘Prescribed for you is fighting, though it be hateful to you.’ … Scholars agree that al polytheists should be fought. This is founded on sura 8:39 ‘Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s entirely."

SECULARISLAM

28 posted on 10/01/2001 1:30:22 PM PDT by Lent
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To: newzjunkey
*An adulterer is punished by 100 lashes. Surah 24:2

Billy Boy! ...that will be 1,000,000,000,000 Lashes!!

29 posted on 10/01/2001 1:31:34 PM PDT by HoustonKevin
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To: Pericles
So Muslims are evil, hey Pericles? You actually agree with this guy?. I think Hitler also said that Jews were bad, and such statements remind me much about that mentality.

Gee, and I thought this (and all the rest related to the Balkans) had nothing to do with hating Muslims, but learning the truth. How naive was I?

It's those evil, wicked, satanist, anti-Christian Muslims that are the only problem for our great civilisation. Uhm, I don't think so Pericles, I am not about to join these kind of witch-hunting. I can do better then that.

30 posted on 10/01/2001 1:31:53 PM PDT by bluester
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To: alex
I had the same conversation about a week ago. Maybe world religious movements have their own 'maturation' period. The Crusades, the Inquisition (nobody expected it! *grin*), and the slaughter and enslavement of the New World's inhabitants were all done on the name of Christ, about 1000-1400 years into Christianity's existence. Could this be the beginning of Islam's rapid expansion, followed (hopefully) by a transformation to a more sedate, peaceful and civilized orthodoxy?

Could someone better informed than I please let us know if Judaism and Buddhism had similarly bloody histories after about 1000-1400 years, before a large growth in the number of converts/believers?

31 posted on 10/01/2001 1:32:18 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: alex
So, if we want compare religions let us compare apples vs apples, let us compare Christianity circa 1400 with modern Islam.

That is a nonsense. Islam has different content. Just using your approach:
Compare the first 300 years of Islam with first 300 years of Christianity. DO you see now?

32 posted on 10/01/2001 1:33:47 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: bluester
You actually agree with this guy?. Which guy? Muhammed? It is from his own hairy lips.
33 posted on 10/01/2001 1:37:23 PM PDT by Pericles
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To: Teacher317
I agree with Medved. It is from the Islamic culture that these ignorant hicks, full of hatred, courtesy of the false religion they adhere to, is the reason for the terrorism, not what we have done, the West has done, or what Israel has done. We might need to do what we did in the Cold War; containment, but with a twist: no more émigrés from the Islamic world. It's discriminatory, but that culture can not be trusted. If another terrorist incident happens, believe me, I'll me called one of the liberals regarding my position on this issue. More incidents would result in massive persecution against anyone with dark skin, except blacks. There would be lynchings and similar happenings all over the US. So you might say, we'd be saving lives by not letting them over here in the first place. Maybe, to be fair about it, we could just cut off immigration altogether. We're already the 3rd largest nation in the world, with only India and China ahead of us, so it's not like an underpopulated nation is being selfish about it. Plus, you leftist Muslim sympathizers out there have not considered what may be coming; a suitcase nuke in a big city near you. We can't live in unreality any more; the animals of this world are upon us, and our way of life will CERTAINLY be extinguished, if results-oriented measures are not implemented post-haste. I would consider getting right with G-d as well. Since now, all of our lives are constantly at risk, you better be prepared for the worst......
34 posted on 10/01/2001 1:41:10 PM PDT by Malcolm
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To: Teacher317
Hey Teacher there is a difference. Christ never said kill the heathens or conquer this city by arms (if Christians did they sinned). Muhammed did say these things!

Read it here written by Muhammed for Muslims.

35 posted on 10/01/2001 1:42:42 PM PDT by Pericles
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To: newzjunkey
Heard nationally on over 140 stations.

But for how long?

36 posted on 10/01/2001 1:43:13 PM PDT by xm177e2
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To: Tamly
If, then, these fanatics are spreading a heresy within Islam... why are Muslims not rooting out the heretics themselves?

If it is in fact an apostasy I would think that those most fervently attacking it would be... Muslims.

37 posted on 10/01/2001 1:43:16 PM PDT by Ramius
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To: newzjunkey
At last someone tells the truth.
38 posted on 10/01/2001 1:43:33 PM PDT by rebdov
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To: Cavalry
It's sort of like Hamslamistan.
39 posted on 10/01/2001 1:44:56 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: Teacher317
"Could someone better informed than I please let us know if Judaism and Buddhism had similarly bloody histories after about 1000-1400 years, before a large growth in the number of converts/believers?"

I can speak only for Buddhism which I have been studying recently. My best understanding is that has no bloody history or history of being spread by force or conquest at all. Historically, it has been remarkably peaceful.

40 posted on 10/01/2001 1:45:16 PM PDT by Irene Adler
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To: Teacher317
Could this be the beginning of Islam's rapid expansion, followed (hopefully) by a transformation to a more sedate, peaceful and civilized orthodoxy?

Frankly I do not beleive that western world is ready to spent next 600 years having terrorism on its own soil and instability everywhere else. There are three practical possibilities:

1. They will be forced mature a few orders of magnitude faster, than 600 years.

2. Western world while wringing its hands and talking about how much it values Muslim culture, would meanwhile kill all muslims by direct or indirect means (a-la American Indians).

3. Western world with isolate itself from muslim world.

None of which looks pretty.

41 posted on 10/01/2001 1:46:25 PM PDT by alex
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To: ex-snook
"Let's get bin Laden, then over and out. "

I am sorry but that is a rather uninformed naive belief. It ain't over with Bin Laden. You have no idea how many millions are ready to take his place. In the Phillipines, in Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Iran and I haven't even mentioned Arabs.

42 posted on 10/01/2001 1:46:54 PM PDT by rebdov
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To: Headlong
"Although most men are not terrorists, most terrorists are men.
Although most people are not terrorists, most terrorists are people.
Although most young people are not terrorists, most terrorists are young.
Although most dark haired people are not terrorists, most terrorists have dark hair."

Your analogies are way too broad. Your red herring refuses to stink.

Headlong = Member since July 2001.

Stick around rookie, maybe you'll learn something.

43 posted on 10/01/2001 1:54:31 PM PDT by SENTINEL
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To: Free the USA
Berlusconi-Medved 2008?
44 posted on 10/01/2001 1:56:16 PM PDT by Azzurri
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To: ex-snook
Michael, Michael, the USA should not be the next tag-team participant in some holy war that has going on in that area for some 1000-4000 years. It could go on for thousands more. The USA does not belong in the holy war business. Let's get bin Laden, then over and out.

There are millions of Bin Ladens out there. Hiding won't make them go away.

CDHR Declaration at Durban

Radical Islamism = Racism = Genocide…

Jihad-Islamism (not Islam) abuses human rights worldwide


Declaration by The Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights Affirming the Dangers of Radical Islamism and a Call to Recognize the Historical Oppression of Religious Minorities Subjected to this Racist-like Practice.

We, the members of The Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights, representing minority religious and ethnic communities from around the world, call upon the World Conference Against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance, now meeting in Durban, South Africa, to address and condemn the ideology of Radical Islamism — a deviation from Islam — as intolerant, xenophobic, racist, supremacist, discriminatory, anti-democratic, and genocidal.

We also call upon the Conference to alert the international community to the widespread dangers of Radical Islamism's culture of animosity and destruction, and to remember and honor the victims of this oppressive ideology of hate toward religious minorities of all beliefs, races, and nationalities.

Finally, we call upon the Conference to recognize that Radical Islamism is a totalitarian movement aimed at establishing a worldwide Radical Islamist state that would:

We believe that the World Conference must act in a manner consistent with the defense of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and ensure that its summary record reflect that Radical Islamism is recognized by all democratic societies as an evil doctrine that should be confronted at Durban and in all United Nations bodies.

To that end, the Conference should recognize the following irrefutable historical facts and warn against the future threats of Radical Islamism:

(I) Radical Islamism Sanctions War through its Radicalized Version of a World Religion.

(A) Jihad, or Holy War, is a religiously sanctioned call for individual and collective violence made by Radical Islamists against "infidels" worldwide. In the past, the concept of Jihad was responsible for many of the greatest tragedies in human history. For over thirteen centuries, millions of human lives have been sacrificed by Jihad campaigns around the world . Now, inspired and organized by the Supremacist ideology of Radical Islamism, Jihad again threatens millions of individuals across the globe.

(B) Fatah, or military conquest, is the employment of Jihad for imperial expansion and colonization of non-Islamic lands. Radical Islamists believe that Fatah is as legitimate today as when the concept gave rise to a series of invasions of countries outside Islam's original birthplace in the Arabian Peninsula.

Historically, Fatah was employed repeatedly over the centuries and included the unprovoked invasions known as Ghazwas by Arab Muslims beginning in 636 AD/CE. These invasions aimed to capture and dominate the Dar al-Harb and impose the religion, and in many areas the language and culture, of the Arab Muslims on their captive subjects. Radical Islamists today wish to re-institutionalize the Ghazwas, thereby re-connecting themselves to a nostalgic, "heroic" past. If successful, they will have reconstituted the world's longest ongoing campaign of imperialist aggression.

History's Three Regional Jihads:

In the 7th Century following the establishment of a government under the Caliph or supreme Muslim religious leader in the Arabian Peninsula, Arab Muslim armies conquered Syria, Palestine, and Mesopotamia, and imposed their rule over the indigenous Christian Armenians, Arameans, Assyrians, Syriacs, Chaldeans, and Jews. Coptic Christian Egypt, Nubian Northern Sudan, Berber Cyrenaica (Libya) and Numedia (Algeria) also were then conquered followed by Spain, southern France, and Sicily. The Arab Muslim armies also invaded Persia and Central Asia reaching as far as India. In all of these lands, an Islamic state was established against the will of the native populations and imposed by Arab governors under the Caliph.

A second unprovoked Fatah was launched from the 11th to the 17th century when Turkish Muslim warriors stormed and conquered Christian Armenia, Byzantium, Greece, the Balkans, and parts of eastern and central Europe, up to the gates of Vienna. Meanwhile a third unprovoked Fatah caused the subjugation of Hindu and Buddhist India.

The Fatah was a planned and organized movement to subdue cultures, and destroy them as a prelude to replacing them with a new foreign religious culture. Today, Radical Islamists wish to revive the Fatah on a global scale.


(II) The Adepts of Radical Islamism Subscribe to an Anachronistic and Widely Discredited Version of a Universal, Monotheistic Faith, Islam, that is a Source of Inspiration to Hundreds of Millions of Muslims worldwide.

(A) Radical Islamists believe in a 1400 year-old religious concept that divides the world into two zones: Dar al-Islam: the realm of peace and Dar al-harb: the realm of war. The former is a zone that is ruled by Islamic states which are worthy of full peace, while the latter is ruled by infidels who inhabit a zone of war, susceptible to Islamic subjugation. Radical Islamists promote a religious worldwide confrontation between the two zones that grants legitimacy to imperial conquest, colonialism, slavery, ethnic cleansing, suppression of liberties, forced religious conversion, and Jihad or Holy War.

(B) Radical Islamists also believe in the 1400 year-old concept of Ridda which holds that a natural born or converted Muslim may not convert or revert to another religion. Today, in many countries ruled or influenced by the Radical Islamist version of Koranic Law, there exists a religiously sanctioned death penalty for those who may decide to change their religion.


(III) Radical Islamism Imposes an Inferior Status on All Non-Muslims and the Special Subservient Status of Dhimmi for "the People of the Book" - Jews and Christians.

In the 7th century, the Caliph Umar imposed this Dhimmi status on conquered populations under his rule. Christians, Jews, and others were forced to accept Al-Shurut al-Umariya, or Umar's conditions, a system of restrictions designed to shame and despoil non-Muslim subjects. Dhimmi peoples had to relinquish their land, were forced to pay a special "protection" tax (dhimma) or face death, wear distinctive clothing, and were banned from most government positions.

Today, Radical Islamists seek to re-impose this state-sanctioned discrimination, calling it an effort to "protect" minorities. In reality, such measures are always part of an effort to enforce assimilation, conversion, and to annihilate the identity of others. The example of Afganistan, where the Hindu minority is forced to wear distinctive clothing to mark them as infidels, is among the most well known.

In areas throughout the Islamic world, Radical Islamists use repression and violence against infidel minorities. In Egypt, Radical Islamists persecute the Copts; in Sudan, the Radical Islamist regime massacres and enslaves the Dinkas, both Christian and traditionalist; in Lebanon, Radical Islamists terrorize the Christians; in Nigeria, they butchered Biafran Ibos and oppress the Christians. In Iraq and Syria, alleged secular radical regimes that are governed by Arab nationalist ideologies and penetrated by Jihadic norms suppress native Christian cultures. In Iran, they persecute Christians and Bahais; in Kashmir, they wage a terrorist war against the Hindu minority; in the southern Philippines, they terrorize Catholics and kidnap foreigners; in East Timor, they have endorsed the regime's attempts at ethnic cleansing against Christians; in Indonesia, they routinely assault the native Christians, particularly in the Moluccas.


(IV) Radical Islamists Seek to Establish the Supremacy of their Version of Islam Over all Other Faiths: the "Global Jihad."

Guided by a deviated interpretation of Islam, the Radical Islamists believe that they will rule the world because of their conviction in the superiority of their religion. Their propaganda mirrors such beliefs as in the Middle East, where they call for the takeover of secular governments in Muslim countries, the destruction of Israel, and the elimination of Christians in Lebanon and South Sudan. In Africa, they call for the conversion to Islam of Black Africa. In Russia, they call for the violent secession of Chechnya, and Dagestan. In Pakistan, they promote Jihad to sever the multi-ethnic province of Kashmir from India. In China, they call for the creation of an Islamic state in Xinjiang. In South East Asia, they support the elimination of East Timor, the destruction of Christian and Chinese minorities in Indonesia, the establishment of a Radical Islamist state in the South Philippines. In Europe, they encourage Radical Islamist separatism in Bosnia and Kosovo, and now in Macedonia. In America and Europe, they have taken over the leadership of the growing Muslim communities to radicalize them and pave the way for Radical Islamist political action in the service of a global Jihad. In every instance, their message is carefully tuned to promote the legitimization of Jihad movements by the international community. To accelerate that goal the Radical Islamists of today are planning, and implementing a Jihad to re-establish the universal Caliphate.


(V) Radical Islamists Abuse Human Rights in their Home Countries

Racial Islamists reject political pluralism, democracy, and fundamental human freedoms in their home countries and abroad. Wherever possible, they use existing freedoms to reach power and then physically eliminate or subdue their opposition. Radical Islamists prohibit or have eliminated political freedoms in Afganistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Sudan, and plan on eliminating those freedoms enjoyed in other countries as they come to dominate them.

Similarly, Radical Islamists do not tolerate religious freedom, or regimes that permit religious equality. In Saudi Arabia, state law forbids non-Muslims to practice their faith. In Afghanistan, Iran, Sudan, and Egypt, non-Muslims are discriminated against in varying degrees.

Much like Dhimmis, women under Radical Islamist regimes and throughout the Muslim world live as an inferior class of citizens. Such regimes promote gender discrimination against women, theologically, ideologically, socially, politically and economically. From Afghanistan to Morocco, women suffer dearly at different levels and in different contexts. Women, who have unequal legal rights, are abused through systematic social discrimination, psychological oppression. Female genital mutilation (FGM) and honor killings are among the most well-known depravations suffered by women in many countries.

Radical Islamists proclaim the equality of races under Islam, but have established a form of religious racism wherever they expanded. They have developed the concept of the "Umma" - the "religious nation" - from which non-Muslims are excluded as a whole. Hence, religion to Radical Islamists is not just a faith held by some citizens and not others; it is an absolute demarcation, dividing superior from inferior human beings. To Radical Islamists, religion is akin to race in any racist system as it sets up an exclusive, superior category of human beings with rights to dominate the others. Within this system, Arab Radical Islamists advocate an Arab Caliph, the Arabic language as the sacred language, and regard other Muslims, especially those of African origin, as inferior. The Radical Islamists' distaste for Africans is rooted in the Arab Muslim participation in the enslavement of Africans, a practice that dates back to the 7th Century AD/CE. Arab-Islamist raids into Africa since the conquest of Egypt have ravaged Africa, uprooted tens of millions of men, women and children, destroying countless families. It contributed to the European slave trade from Africa to the Americas from the 17th century. The Arab enslavement of Africans over the centuries remains active today in Sudan.


(VI) Radical Islamists Deny Their Crimes Against Humanity

While other cultures, movements and religions have acknowledged and sometimes apologized for past racist practices, the Radical Islamists refuse to admit the historical crimes they, and their predecessors, have perpetrated since the 7th century and refuse to acknowledge that those crimes are still being perpetrated today.

In the areas under their control they write revisionist histories of their actions, denying the identity and history of the nations they have subjugated and burying the evidence of the Jihad that they waged against native peoples. In the West, they fund educational programs aimed at erasing their crimes from history. Radical Islamists are penetrating the public educational systems to impose their view of their victims world with the unwitting assistance of their victims. In this way, they obliterate the violent and racist nature of their predecessors' actions and prepare for their return to absolute power, decreed by their beliefs.


RESOLUTIONS:

For these reasons, the Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights calls upon the World Conference Against Racism to:

1) Request the Organization of the Islamic Conference - acting on behalf of its 57 members - to apologize for past Jihad crimes against humanity, including the brutal invasion and occupation of lands and peoples in the Middle East, North Africa, Europe, and Asia, and the mass enslavement of Africans and others, including Europeans;

2) Condemns all current Jihads, and calls on these Governments to cease violating the rights of ethnic and religious minorities and peoples;

3) Calls on the United Nations to Equate Radical Islamism, Jihad-ism, and Dhimmitude with Racism, Colonialism, and Imperialism;

4) Calls on the United Nations to intervene to protect the rights and lives of religious and ethnic minorities and non-Islamist Muslims in Afganistan, Algeria, Egypt, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia Sudan, and Syria;

5) Calls on Islamic scholars and intellectuals to reject the concepts of Fatah, Jihad, and Dhimmitude;

6) Calls on Islamic Governments to stop imposing the Shari'a on non-Muslims and guarantee the rights of all enlightened Muslim humanists and intellectuals.

Submitted by: The Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights, an umbrella coalition representing various organizations from the following communities: Hindus, Buddhists, Bahais, Humanist Muslims, Copts, Assyrians, Syriacs, Southern Sudanese, Maronites, Southern Philippinos, West Africans, Ibos, Slavic Christians, Armenians, Arab Christians, Nubians, secular intellectuals, and women's groups.

The Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights
14000 Gunner's Place, Centerville, VA 20121
703-234-3954 x 7542
http://www.dhimmi.com

CDHR is a registered 501c3 non-profit organization. All donations are tax-deductible.

45 posted on 10/01/2001 1:58:37 PM PDT by Lent
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To: Headlong
Thanks, Headlong. The notion that anything "insightful" came out of the mouth of the insipid Michael Reagan is laughable.
46 posted on 10/01/2001 2:02:52 PM PDT by j.havenfarm
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To: Non-Sequitur
Admitting Moses was a warrior, of sorts, would get in the way of Medved's point. Can't have that.

Just now he was talking about some Muslim's performance of female circumcision--what he calls genital mutilation of women--so they don't experience sexual pleasure.

He passes right over the criticism that his own Judaism (and too many American parents, imho) surgically alter new born male children and effect, sometimes very adversely, the sexual responses of males.

In both cases, one man's (religiously motivated) circumcision is another man's barbaric genital mutilation.

47 posted on 10/01/2001 2:02:57 PM PDT by newzjunkey
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To: hopespringseternal
The only way to win this is to kill 'em all. And we won't do that. Therefore, we will not win. We'll be fighting this war forever just like Israel has been fighting it since 1948. We'll just have to learn to live with it. I really don't believe our leaders are willing to do what must be done, even with a 90% approval rating, which will not last forever.
48 posted on 10/01/2001 2:04:08 PM PDT by Terry Mross
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To: Pericles
You know what I ment Pericles. The hatred coming people like Michael Medved. Not just from Mohammads. Like you have Islamic fundamentalists, you have their counterparts in other religions. There's not much of a difference really. Hatred is not part of my agenda. Never was.

But I guess it has become cool to hate Muslims and everything related to them. And all those people that were a bit quiet before regarding this matter have just found their opportunity to express their profound hatred, that they have been holding inside them. Ignorance, hatred, intolerance have become virtues and signs of patriotism.

49 posted on 10/01/2001 2:06:07 PM PDT by bluester
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To: newzjunkey
The latest body count (Medved mentioned losses, but not specific stats), from AP via Yahoo (Oct 1, 2001):

More than 645 people have been killed on the Palestinian side, and more than 175 on the Israeli side, since the uprising started on Sept. 28, 2000.

50 posted on 10/01/2001 2:10:30 PM PDT by newzjunkey
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