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How Tolerant is Islam?
myself | Not yet | 2banana

Posted on 10/08/2001 6:24:57 AM PDT by 2banana

Dear Editor,

I keep hearing on the news about how "tolerant" the Islamic religion is. A few examples of this tolerance:

Saudia Arabia - Conversion by a Muslim to another religion is punishable by death. Bibles are illegal.

Yemen - Bans proselytizing by non-Muslims and forbids conversions. The Government does not allow the building of new non-Muslim places of worship

Kuwait - Registration and licensing of religious groups. Members of religions not sanctioned in the Koran may not build places of worship. Prohibits organized religious education for religions other than Islam

Egypt -Islam is the official state religion and primary source of legislation. Accordingly, religious practices that conflict with Islamic law are prohibited. Muslims may face legal problems if they convert to another faith. Requires non-Muslims to obtain what is now a presidential decree to build a place of worship

Alergia - The law prohibits public assembly for purposes of practicing a faith other than Islam. Non-Islamic proselytizing is illegal, and the Government restricts the importation of non-Islamic literature for widespread distribution.

(All information is from US State Department Human Rights Reports)

I could go on with more examples.


TOPICS: Editorial; Philosophy
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Comments please for my LTTE
1 posted on 10/08/2001 6:24:57 AM PDT by 2banana
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To: 2banana
Islam is most defniitely NOT a peaceful religion, and in that sense inherently different from just about any other faith on earth.

Excellent examples of this faith. Americans should be warned that these people are not as accommodating nor as forgiving as Christians.

2 posted on 10/08/2001 6:32:35 AM PDT by Jumper
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To: 2banana
In the history of mankind, more people have been killed din the name of God than for any other reason....

However, suggest that you rephrase your questions another way. The issue is not the lack of intolerance in Islam..rather, it is curious that no predominanly Islam countries are truly democratic......thewrefore, ask if Islam, as a religion, is innately hostile to democracy. It is....

3 posted on 10/08/2001 6:35:38 AM PDT by ken5050
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To: 2banana
Yes, but our media and our leaders keep stressing to us that Islam is tolerant and that only a few extremists have given it a bad name. I've even read that Tony Blair (as well as Chelsea Clinton) read the Koran for "peace" and insight. Of all the world's politicians only Italy's Berscolloni (sp?) has come right out and spoken the truth of the matter. If we believe our media and our leaders in what they say about Islam we're going to lose this "war".
4 posted on 10/08/2001 6:41:51 AM PDT by waxhaw
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To: 2banana
< liberal response > Oh yeah. What about 1000 years ago in the Christian world? < /liberal response >
5 posted on 10/08/2001 6:43:17 AM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: ken5050
In the history of mankind, more people have been killed din the name of God than for any other reason....

You couldn't be more wrong. More people have been killed in the name of the dictatorship of the proletariat than for any other reason.

All the wars in world history before 1900 didn't number as many casualties as the wars of the 20th century. And the vast majority of war victims in the 20th century died at the hands of soldiers fighting for areligious ideologies like Nazism and Communism. The largest religious conflict in history - the Crusades - claimed 250,000 lives in 172 years of warfare. The battle of Stalingrad claimed 1,000,000 lives in six months.

6 posted on 10/08/2001 6:44:19 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
Sorry...you are of course correct..I took my statistics out of context.....I was alluding to the studies that talk about deaths from "religious" motivated wars, as a % of the population at the time....and my remarks were not not meant to blaspheme, but to show how extremists corrupt the word of God and profane it for their own efforts to seize and hold power......and also, that Islam as a whole, seems somewhat incompatible with democracy........regards
7 posted on 10/08/2001 7:13:40 AM PDT by ken5050
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To: ken5050
In the history of mankind, more people have been killed din the name of God than for any other reason

I think Stalin & Mao killed more in the "name of the State " than any religion close to 100 Million of their "own people"

8 posted on 10/08/2001 7:29:52 AM PDT by scooby321
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To: 2banana
Islam is a religion of pedophiles, whose n virgins promises for martyrs says it all. coming to think about it, Islam is as tolerant as my penis when my eyes are set on a babe at a French beach
9 posted on 10/08/2001 7:32:29 AM PDT by lavaroise
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To: 2banana
Islam=Terrorism. 'Nuff said.
10 posted on 10/08/2001 7:36:04 AM PDT by Republic of Texas
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To: 2banana
How Tolerant is Islam?

How tolerant is a hungry tiger?

11 posted on 10/08/2001 7:37:23 AM PDT by aomagrat
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To: ken5050
Islam is indeed incompatible with democracy - the only Muslim-majority country with a democratically-elected government (Turkey) has banned religious parties from participation in elections.

They know that if they let their own homegrown jihadists take control the parliament will be replaced with shariat executioners.

12 posted on 10/08/2001 7:48:38 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: 2banana
Do sex changes on all the old men we can capature and especially Osama-payback to the mistreatment of the women.
13 posted on 10/08/2001 7:53:19 AM PDT by HoundsTooth_BP
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To: 2banana
What do you conclude from this? We should kill their leaders and convert them for Christianity? If so, that is World War III squared.
14 posted on 10/08/2001 7:57:08 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: 2banana
Get a PDF file of this page here.

Center of Peace and Hope in Christ for Afghanistan
Issues Challenge to Moderate Muslims

Recent threats and acts of hatred against American Muslims, Asian Muslims, and non-Muslim Asian Americans across the United States is wrong. The horrible acts of war committed against the United States on September 11 are a fertile ground for wrong headed Americans to demonstrate their ignorance toward people of various ethnic and religious backgrounds.

The Center of Peace and Hope in Christ for Afghanistan condemns this hatred. The United States Constitution allows all Americans to freely worship in the religion of their own choosing. Also, Americans who choose not to worship or adhere to any religion are free to do so.

It is clear that all genuine seekers of truth would not engage in ethnic hatred, bigotry, or acts of violence. Recent statements of Muslim leaders in America that not all Muslims should be blamed for the September 11 are correct. A small percentage of  people who called themselves Muslims are responsible for their own actions. When one who calls himself a Christian commits a crime, not all Christians are responsible for the crime. So too, all Muslims are not responsible for what happened in New York and Washington.

While the government of the United States takes action against these acts of war, people of faith have a great opportunity to assert tolerance toward one another. Now is the time for Christians to demonstrate the love of Christ to our Muslim friends. Christians should pray for God’s greatest blessing on Muslims living as a minority in America.

And now is the time for moderate Muslims to demonstrate their acceptance of Christians and the ideals of tolerance and freedom in our republic. It is exactly this point which is the great need of the hour for Muslim leaders in America to address.

Moderate Muslim leaders need to clearly make the case that as Americans they support the freedom of all people to choose their own religion. Do these moderates tolerate the idea of individual Muslims deciding for themselves what religion to follow?

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of former Muslims in the United States who live under the threat of death because of their own personal decision to no longer follow the Islamic religion. Freedom of religion is a cornerstone of the American republic. Former Muslims do not always experience this aspect of freedom because of the hatred and intolerance of others.

Moderate American Muslims need to clearly denounce those misguided people who, in the name of Islam, call for the death of those who leave the Muslim religion. To do otherwise is to promote  intolerance toward our fellow Americans who choose to no longer adhere to the Muslim religion. And to do otherwise will demonstrate that even the most moderate form of Islam is incompatible with the United States Constitution.

Now is the time for “moderate” Muslim leaders in America to clearly define the limits of their tolerance.

John Marion, Jr. is the director of the Center of Peace and Hope in Christ for Afghanistan in Fairfax County. His email is: afghanjohn@afghanbibles.com. Additional copies of this can be downloaded at: www.AfghanBibles.com .

15 posted on 10/08/2001 8:03:29 AM PDT by JeepInMazar
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To: 2banana
For anyone intersted in an eye opening summary of Islam from its inception to the present, read the book:

JIHAD in the West
Muslim Conquests From The 7th To The 21st Centuries

By Paul Fregosi
Prometheus Books, 1998
ISBN 1-57392-247-1

My only criticism is that it should have been 5 volumes. Events are telescoped so much that it leaves you hungry for answers to the obvious questions generated.

But it is the most enjoyable non-fiction book I have read in months.
The discussion of Jannissaries is particularly of interest.

16 posted on 10/08/2001 8:06:29 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: 2banana
How Tolerant is Islam?

Not tolerant at all, not even slightly.

17 posted on 10/08/2001 8:07:50 AM PDT by Mark17
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: ken5050
it is curious that no predominanly Islam countries are truly democratic

Yes, one. Turkey. A member of NATO.

19 posted on 10/08/2001 9:29:11 AM PDT by A Ruckus of Dogs
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To: 2banana
The following are some real teachings of Islam: Men are superior to women (surah 2:228). Women have half the rights of men: in court witness (surah 2:282) and in inheritance (surah 4:11). A man may punish his wife by beating her (surah 4:34). A man may marry up to four wives at the same time (surah 4:3). A wife is a sex object for her husband (surah 2:223). Muslims must fight until their opponents submit to Islam (surah 9:29). A Muslim must not take a Jew or a a Christian for a friend (surah 5:51). A Muslim apostate must be killed (surah 9:12). Stealing is punished by the amputation of the hands (surah 5:38). Adultery is punished by public flogging (surah 24:2). Resisting Islam is punished by death, crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet (surah 5:33). Fate decides everyone's eternal destination (surah 17:13). Every Muslim will pass through Hell (surah 19:71). Heaven in Islam is the place where a Muslim will be reclining, eating meats and delicious fruits, drinking exquisite wines, and engaging in sex with virgins (surah 55:54- 56) & (surah 52:17,19). You can find more at http://www.islamreview.com/
20 posted on 10/08/2001 1:53:40 PM PDT by knighthawk
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To: knighthawk
Atta’s Rage Rooted in Islam’s Misogyny
21 posted on 10/12/2001 5:04:52 AM PDT by defeat_the_dem_igods
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: JeepInMazar
It is clear that all genuine seekers of truth would not engage in ethnic hatred, bigotry, or acts of violence.

I beg to differ. That is not at all clear.

23 posted on 10/12/2001 5:08:39 AM PDT by jammer
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To: 2banana
Come on now! You are not being Politically correct to the Koran the book of hate! Stop it! Stop this hate language!

OR

Read it and weep.

24 posted on 10/12/2001 5:11:34 AM PDT by chicagolady
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To: AppyPappy
< liberal response > Oh yeah. What about 1000 years ago in the Christian world? < /liberal response >

Pure horse-pucky and irrelevant. Christianity moved up out of medieval barbarity, the Muslims have descended further into it.

The Crusades lasted 200 years; Jihad lasted 500 years before the crusades and 700 years afterwards.
And the Jihad "rested" only when it became impotent to continue due to military defeats.

After resting for 100 plus years, oil revenues has allowed it to reawaken and is back with a vengeance.

Everyone can do the following: see how many books can be found on the Crusades, vs the number that discuss Jihad...

Jihad and Islam is the invisible world cancer.

25 posted on 10/12/2001 5:36:15 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: Austin Willard Wright
What do you conclude from this? We should kill their leaders and convert them for Christianity? If so, that is World War III squared

No. But refusing to recognise the nature of your enemy is insanity in war. Pretending they are mild and reasonable is like pretending the Nazis were mild and reasonable, or that Stalin was "good old Uncle Joe", that pipe smoking fatherly figure portrayed in the West during the Second World War.

Our national policy MUST be rooted in reason and fact, and wishing the enemy to be other then he is is suicidal.

26 posted on 10/12/2001 5:38:11 AM PDT by Kozak
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To: JeepInMazar
Moderate Muslim leaders need to clearly make the case that as Americans they support the freedom of all people to choose their own religion. Do these moderates tolerate the idea of individual Muslims deciding for themselves what religion to follow?

I think that's why they want an Islamic state in the USA too.

27 posted on 10/12/2001 5:42:45 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: Kozak
Again, I ask, what is your solution? I have stated mine. If Islam is the enemy, then it is time to make hot (or at the very least cold) war on Islam in all forms, right? If not, what is your solution?
28 posted on 10/12/2001 12:21:54 PM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: jammer
I suppose it is possible. My understanding of "truth" leads me to believe that one who is seeking for it is attempting to behave in ways which demonstrate that seeking.
29 posted on 10/16/2001 12:06:26 PM PDT by JeepInMazar
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To: Publius6961
INVISIBLE??? Not quite!
30 posted on 10/16/2001 12:25:13 PM PDT by PietroA
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To: Jumper
Islam is most defniitely NOT a peaceful religion, and in that sense inherently different from just about any other faith on earth.

Right-on!!! And they treat their females like crap too!!Don't forget that!!

31 posted on 10/16/2001 12:29:26 PM PDT by timestax
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To: Jumper
Islam is most defniitely NOT a peaceful religion, and in that sense inherently different from just about any other faith on earth.

Right-on!!! And they treat their females like crap too!!Don't forget that!!

32 posted on 10/16/2001 12:29:44 PM PDT by timestax
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To: 2banana
To reiterate my thoughts as generated by another thread, words mean nothing, actions mean everything, and I don't trust anyone living out of the book of islam! Period!

Sounds harsh, you say? How did the Saudi student in the upper crust NYC boarding school know to tell his teacher the WTC wouldn't be there much longer? How do you explain the attitude of elementary school muslim students regarding US citizenship and fighting terrorism? These kids heard it at home!

Show me how it's wrong to state, unequivocally, that to trust a muslim is anything but vulnerability to attack!

I'm definitely NOT for "bashing" of any kind (using "hate-crime" parlance), but I will never turn my back on a muslim!

9mm CCW peace of mind.....

33 posted on 10/16/2001 12:32:18 PM PDT by mil-vet
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To: knighthawk
A man may marry up to four wives at the same time (surah 4:3)

Just curious. What vows are exchanged in an Islamic polygamist wedding? Obviously the man and woman do not have the same commitment to "forsake all others". Anybody know?

34 posted on 10/16/2001 12:34:53 PM PDT by BigBobber
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To: BigBobber
bttt
35 posted on 10/16/2001 7:35:32 PM PDT by timestax
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To: Mark17
bttt
36 posted on 10/17/2001 10:48:26 PM PDT by timestax
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To: timestax
bttt
37 posted on 10/19/2001 9:56:29 PM PDT by timestax
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To: timestax
bttt
38 posted on 10/19/2001 9:56:38 PM PDT by timestax
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To: timestax
BTTT
39 posted on 10/20/2001 5:49:34 PM PDT by timestax
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Naw, cut to the chase. Kill them and convert the leaders. Easier and cheaper.
40 posted on 10/20/2001 6:13:55 PM PDT by mathurine
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To: Jumper
not
41 posted on 10/21/2001 3:29:57 PM PDT by timestax
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: 2banana
You forgot one: when the Indonesian Muslims rioted in Jakarta in 1998, their 100 percent exclusive targets were ethnic Chinese, who are for the most part Christians (even Mochtar Riady professes Christianity, for goodness sakes).

The "tolerant" Islamic treatment of ethnic Chinese included burning their homes and business; multiple rapes of ethinic Chinese women; beatings, killings, etc. The normal "tolerant" Islamic stuff.

Not to mention that the "tolerant" Muslims of Indonesia are now targeting Westerners and particularly Americans in their nascent hallucinatory campaign of terror (e.g., the "jihad").

As one who is not particularly religious, I nonetheless find current Islamic expresssions of "faith" to border on the Satanic. There is something deeply evil at work within Islam.

If Islam really is inherently "peaceful and tolerant", Muslims should recognize that it is being enveloped by evil incarnate.

And that is not a metaphor. Evil has taken deep root within this "religion."

43 posted on 10/21/2001 3:43:50 PM PDT by angkor
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To: abwehr
Prolly won't be too long before they show up.....
44 posted on 10/21/2001 3:44:38 PM PDT by timestax
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To: abwehr
Prolly won't be too long before they show up.....
45 posted on 10/21/2001 3:45:06 PM PDT by timestax
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To: 2banana; JeepInMazar
Article today, Sunday - The Washington Post - "Outlook" Section B, by Michael Skube, entitled: "Either You Are a Believer or an Infidel."

As you know we can't post the compost here, but it is an good read! One quote: "Blood feuds and assassinations punctuate Islam's history from the very beginning."

46 posted on 10/21/2001 3:49:05 PM PDT by TrueBeliever9
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To: 2banana
Since many of the suicide terrorists were from our "friends" in Saudi Arabia I believe we need to develop a litmus test to identify who our enemies are.

I propose that any nation that uses civil law and the threat of death to enforce religious orthodoxy is a terrorist nation.

There is a moral equivalence in the acts of someone who kills infidels by ramming a plane into a building and the actions of a government using lethal force on someone who converts from Islam.

If any government denies freedom of religion and freedom of speech to it's people then that government is the enemy.

It's not a fluke that many of the terrorists came from Saudi Arabia. The immorality behind terrorism is institutionalized there.
47 posted on 10/21/2001 4:36:07 PM PDT by UnChained
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To: UnChained
What you have written makes a lot of sense to me.
48 posted on 10/21/2001 4:58:13 PM PDT by JeepInMazar
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To: 2banana
Do you have any info if other nations besides Saudi Arabia treats the various crimes you list as capital offenses?
49 posted on 10/21/2001 8:36:06 PM PDT by UnChained
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To: 2banana
it's NOT tolerant
50 posted on 10/22/2001 8:48:21 PM PDT by timestax
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