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We’ve Been Here Before... October 7 was an Auspicious Day to Strike
Front Page Magazine ^ | 10/10/01 | Duncan Maxwell Anderson

Posted on 10/10/2001 12:48:36 PM PDT by Pyro7480

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We’ve Been Here Before
October 7 was an Auspicious Day to Strike
By Duncan Maxwell Anderson | October 10, 2001

"A senior Pentagon official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Tomahawk cruise missiles were launched from American and British vessels, including American submarines, in the Arabian Sea.

"This official said targets included air defenses, military communications sites and terrorist training camps inside Afghanistan. ‘This is going to be a prolonged, sustained effort over several days,’ the official said."

The Associated Press

Sunday, Oct. 7, 2001; 2:08 p.m. EDT


THE SHOOTING has begun. We've seen little, and heard a lot of words since the attacks of Sept. 11, and some commentators have suggested that there have been no American strikes until this past Sunday because President Bush hasn't really known what to do next, against an invisible, perhaps omnipotent enemy.

But listening to the news every hour can be deceptive. In a real military campaign, much of the time, words are issued to mask action. The reality is that Delta Force and British SAS commandos infiltrated Afghanistan within days of Sept. 11 to pinpoint the air strikes that have just begun. The purpose is not to destroy aspirin factories, but to "take out the enemy’s eyes and ears" in preparation for a ground attack. U.S. Army Rangers and 10th Mountain Division troops are ringing the country preparing to roust detachments of Taliban troops from their tunnels.

No doubt the Talibans and their Arab mercenaries are tough. On the other hand, to make Ranger, you have to run a 5:30 mile carrying a 60-lb. pack on your back, followed immediately by a second mile at a 5:50 pace — and be one of the first 50 men to finish the race. Those who qualify get a year's pressure-cooker instruction in weapons, tactics, and hand-to-hand fighting, if they last.

Mountain Division troops can do all that on skis, and live outdoors in any weather for two weeks (or more) without re-supply.

Technology will probably be more important to this conflict than we can now imagine. Satellites and Northern Alliance scouts have probably been mapping the movements of individual donkeys. In short, the experiences of the British and the Soviets in this country may or may not be relevant. This will be an American war.

I'm reminded of the closing of John Keegan's brilliant book Warpaths—Travels of a Military Historian in North America:

There is, I have said, an American mystery, the nature of which I only begin to perceive. If I were obliged to define it, I would say it is the ethos—masculine, pervasive, unrelenting—of work as an end in itself. War is a form of work, and America makes war, however reluctantly, however unwillingly, in a particularly workmanlike way.

Once they have been forced to take up the task of war, Keegan observes, "Americans shoulder the burden with intimidating purpose."

Meanwhile, Osama bin Laden, the Yuppie murderer and drug dealer, seems to have lost a little of his swagger. Trapped in a darkened Afghanistan of his own making, he is no longer declaring that the Americans will not dare come after him, and that the descendants of the Crusaders are soft and impotent. Instead, he is calling on Muslims around the world to come to his assistance. Please. Now.

Like most men from the East, bin Laden is acutely aware of history in a way that puts our ignorance of it to shame. Four hundred and thirty years ago, the Ottoman emperor Selim II pursued the same Islamic imperialism to which bin Laden lays claim today. The Ottoman Turks controlled an army and navy that had conquered Turkey, the Middle East, North Africa, Eastern Europe, and Greece, and were poised to take Italy. Ali Pasha, commander of the Muslim fleet, announced that he would pull down the cross atop St. Peter's Basilica in Rome and replace it with the crescent moon. It was a similar gesture to destroying the World Trade Center.

But before Ali Pasha could carry out his threat, Pope Pius V, an astute diplomat, united squabbling factions from Spain, Venice, and the Papal States to mount a last-ditch resistance—headed by Don John of Austria, the 25-year-old, illegitimate son of the Austrian emperor. On September 17, 1571, although badly outnumbered, Don John led a fleet of ships in search of the Muslim navy and finally met them on October 7 in the Gulf of Lepanto, off the western coast of Greece.

Back in Rome, Pope Pius led processions of the faithful, praying the Rosary for a Christian victory.

Four hours after hostilities commenced, the Ottoman fleet had been destroyed. The Battle of Lepanto – memorialized in G.K. Chesterton’s poem "Lepanto" – was the turning point in the long war to save Europe from the steady march of Islamic conquest.

In thanksgiving, the Pope fixed the date of the naval victory at Lepanto as the Feast of the Holy Rosary. That feast is October 7, the commenced air strikes on Afghanistan.

The campaign against Islamic terrorists may be long. But as the terrorists themselves are well aware, it has begun on an auspicious day for the West.

Duncan Maxwell Anderson is editorial director of Faith and Family. E-mail him at

TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
Text of G.K. Chesterton's "Lepanto"

G. K. Chesterton. 1874–
91. Lepanto
WHITE founts falling in the Courts of the sun,  
And the Soldan of Byzantium is smiling as they run;  
There is laughter like the fountains in that face of all men feared,  
It stirs the forest darkness, the darkness of his beard;  
It curls the blood-red crescent, the crescent of his lips;          5
For the inmost sea of all the earth is shaken with his ships.  
They have dared the white republics up the capes of Italy,  
They have dashed the Adriatic round the Lion of the Sea,  
And the Pope has cast his arms abroad for agony and loss,  
And called the kings of Christendom for swords about the Cross.   10
The cold queen of England is looking in the glass;  
The shadow of the Valois is yawning at the Mass;  
From evening isles fantastical rings faint the Spanish gun,  
And the Lord upon the Golden Horn is laughing in the sun.  
Dim drums throbbing, in the hills half heard,   15
Where only on a nameless throne a crownless prince has stirred,  
Where, risen from a doubtful seat and half attainted stall,  
The last knight of Europe takes weapons from the wall,  
The last and lingering troubadour to whom the bird has sung,  
That once went singing southward when all the world was young.   20
In that enormous silence, tiny and unafraid,  
Comes up along a winding road the noise of the Crusade.  
Strong gongs groaning as the guns boom far,  
Don John of Austria is going to the war,  
Stiff flags straining in the night-blasts cold   25
In the gloom black-purple, in the glint old-gold,  
Torchlight crimson on the copper kettle-drums,  
Then the tuckets, then the trumpets, then the cannon, and he comes.  
Don John laughing in the brave beard curled,  
Spurning of his stirrups like the thrones of all the world,   30
Holding his head up for a flag of all the free.  
Love-light of Spain—hurrah!  
Death-light of Africa!  
Don John of Austria  
Is riding to the sea.   35
Mahound is in his paradise above the evening star,  
(Don John of Austria is going to the war.)  
He moves a mighty turban on the timeless houri's knees,  
His turban that is woven of the sunsets and the seas.  
He shakes the peacock gardens as he rises from his ease,   40
And he strides among the tree-tops and is taller than the trees;  
And his voice through all the garden is a thunder sent to bring  
Black Azrael and Ariel and Ammon on the wing.  
Giants and the Genii,  
Multiplex of wing and eye,   45
Whose strong obedience broke the sky  
When Solomon was king.  
They rush in red and purple from the red clouds of the morn,  
From the temples where the yellow gods shut up their eyes in scorn;  
They rise in green robes roaring from the green hells of the sea   50
Where fallen skies and evil hues and eyeless creatures be,  
On them the sea-valves cluster and the grey sea-forests curl,  
Splashed with a splendid sickness, the sickness of the pearl;  
They swell in sapphire smoke out of the blue cracks of the ground,—  
They gather and they wonder and give worship to Mahound.   55
And he saith, "Break up the mountains where the hermit-folk can hide,  
And sift the red and silver sands lest bone of saint abide,  
And chase the Giaours flying night and day, not giving rest,  
For that which was our trouble comes again out of the west.  
We have set the seal of Solomon on all things under sun,   60
Of knowledge and of sorrow and endurance of things done.  
But a noise is in the mountains, in the mountains, and I know  
The voice that shook our palaces—four hundred years ago:  
It is he that saith not 'Kismet'; it is he that knows not Fate;  
It is Richard, it is Raymond, it is Godfrey at the gate!   65
It is he whose loss is laughter when he counts the wager worth,  
Put down your feet upon him, that our peace be on the earth."  
For he heard drums groaning and he heard guns jar,  
(Don John of Austria is going to the war.)  
Sudden and still—hurrah!   70
Bolt from Iberia!  
Don John of Austria  
Is gone by Alcalar.  
St. Michaels on his Mountain in the sea-roads of the north  
(Don John of Austria is girt and going forth.)   75
Where the grey seas glitter and the sharp tides shift  
And the sea-folk labour and the red sails lift.  
He shakes his lance of iron and he claps his wings of stone;  
The noise is gone through Normandy; the noise is gone alone;  
The North is full of tangled things and texts and aching eyes,   80
And dead is all the innocence of anger and surprise,  
And Christian killeth Christian in a narrow dusty room,  
And Christian dreadeth Christ that hath a newer face of doom,  
And Christian hateth Mary that God kissed in Galilee,—  
But Don John of Austria is riding to the sea.   85
Don John calling through the blast and the eclipse  
Crying with the trumpet, with the trumpet of his lips,  
Trumpet that sayeth ha!  
Domino gloria!  
Don John of Austria   90
Is shouting to the ships.  
King Philip's in his closet with the Fleece about his neck  
(Don John of Austria is armed upon the deck.)  
The walls are hung with velvet that is black and soft as sin,  </TD

1 posted on 10/10/2001 12:48:36 PM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Pyro7480
And little dwarfs creep out of it and little dwarfs creep in.   95
He holds a crystal phial that has colours like the moon,  
He touches, and it tingles, and he trembles very soon,  
And his face is as a fungus of a leprous white and grey  
Like plants in the high houses that are shuttered from the day,  
And death is in the phial and the end of noble work,  100
But Don John of Austria has fired upon the Turk.  
Don John's hunting, and his hounds have bayed—  
Booms away past Italy the rumour of his raid.  
Gun upon gun, ha! ha!  
Gun upon gun, hurrah!  105
Don John of Austria  
Has loosed the cannonade.  
The Pope was in his chapel before day or battle broke,  
(Don John of Austria is hidden in the smoke.)  
The hidden room in man's house where God sits all the year,  110
The secret window whence the world looks small and very dear.  
He sees as in a mirror on the monstrous twilight sea  
The crescent of his cruel ships whose name is mystery;  
They fling great shadows foe-wards, making Cross and Castle dark,  
They veil the plumèd lions on the galleys of St. Mark;  115
And above the ships are palaces of brown, black-bearded chiefs,  
And below the ships are prisons, where with multitudinous griefs,  
Christian captives sick and sunless, all a labouring race repines  
Like a race in sunken cities, like a nation in the mines.  
They are lost like slaves that sweat, and in the skies of morning hung  120
The stair-ways of the tallest gods when tyranny was young.  
They are countless, voiceless, hopeless as those fallen or fleeing on  
Before the high Kings' horses in the granite of Babylon.  
And many a one grows witless in his quiet room in hell  
Where a yellow face looks inward through the lattice of his cell,  125
And he finds his God forgotten, and he seeks no more a sign—  
(But Don John of Austria has burst the battle-line!)  
Don John pounding from the slaughter-painted poop,  
Purpling all the ocean like a bloody pirate's sloop,  
Scarlet running over on the silvers and the golds,  130
Breaking of the hatches up and bursting of the holds,  
Thronging of the thousands up that labour under sea  
White for bliss and blind for sun and stunned for liberty.  
Vivat Hispania!  
Domino Gloria!  135
Don John of Austria  
Has set his people free!  
Cervantes on his galley sets the sword back in the sheath  
(Don John of Austria rides homeward with a wreath.)  
And he sees across a weary land a straggling road in Spain,  140
Up which a lean and foolish knight for ever rides in vain,  
And he smiles, but not as Sultans smile, and settles back the blade....  
(But Don John of Austria rides home from the Crusade.)  

2 posted on 10/10/2001 12:51:08 PM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Pyro7480; aquinasfan; Askel5; patent
3 posted on 10/10/2001 12:56:41 PM PDT by father_elijah
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To: Cicero
4 posted on 10/10/2001 12:58:37 PM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: father_elijah
Ave Maria, gratia plena
Dominus tecum.
Benedicta tu in mulieribus
Et benedictus fructus ventris tui Jesus.

Santa Maria, mater Dei
Ora pro nobis peccatoribus,
Nunc et in hora mortis nostrae.

5 posted on 10/10/2001 1:14:05 PM PDT by Aristophanes
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To: Pyro7480

6 posted on 10/10/2001 1:38:33 PM PDT by Chesterbelloc
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To: Pyro7480
I was wondering why we started bombing on a I know...thanks for the post.
7 posted on 10/10/2001 1:55:36 PM PDT by foreshadowed at waco
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To: Pyro7480; lurker; clinton's a liar
Sort of puts it into perspective, doesn't it?

The heart that longs for the epic, the one that yearns, burns for that day when everything in a person's lifetime comes into focus, has definitely been awakened. This massive "clash of civilizations", where East meets West in a nuclear age, may in fact be the beginning of an upheaval so monumental, nothing by comparison has been seen for nearly half of a millinium.

For those of us who haven't yet shaken their soft, overfed, spiteful stupor, and woken up to that possibility, it may be time to consider that from this point on, it's could be all or nothing. It's clearly so MUCH bigger than Afghanastan, or even the entire Middle East. For there are vestiges of Eastern thought throughout the rapidly developing, militarily proliferating Orient. We either win this one, or we loose EVERYTHING.

In consideration of the theme of this piece, is anyone surprised that we're being openly told that this war is a "Serious Business"? One that will last for years and years, with some even calling it WWIII, and qualified military historians suggesting it could be the longest, most difficult war of engagement for the US since the Revolution?

IMHO, this may in fact become the most vulnerable moment in American history. It looks very much like it could completely make or break us, as with the Revolution itself. And if it DOES in fact turn out to be comparable to the Revolutionary War in duration and possibly meaning, isn't it about time for the spiteful, spoiled, anti-Western voices among us (hey-hey, ho-ho, Western Culture's gotta go!) to also get serious and voluntarily quiet themselves and lend a shoulder before their smug, ivory-towered, intellectualy vapid world, shatters at their feet?

8 posted on 10/10/2001 1:59:10 PM PDT by Coyote
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To: father_elijah
I have an uneasy feeling, actually, with regard to the way they're picking the dates.

They're all too perfect.
(Case in point ... my 9/11/1683 thread that got deleted).

I still feel that -- by positing this as a war of Good Christians (hardly ...) against Evil Islam -- both we and the militant atheists can take our pick of targets among those former friends (or fellow militants) who have grown too powerful for the Globalists' collective peace of mind.

The fact that it may well fast-track a death blow of sorts to the Western Imperialists and the "It's the Economy, Stupid" crowd is just icing on the cake and a reminder of who's the most to gain by all of this.

9 posted on 10/10/2001 2:08:43 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Coyote
For there are vestiges of Eastern thought throughout the rapidly developing, militarily proliferating Orient. We either win this one, or we loose EVERYTHING.

As for my Holy War of "Eternal Present" proportions ... The Western Energy That Dethrones Tyrants.

Until China emerges as the real enemy, we've far to go.

10 posted on 10/10/2001 2:11:08 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Askel5
I don't buy this conspiracy theory of yours, but thanks for the link. I really appreciate it.
11 posted on 10/10/2001 2:18:45 PM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Pyro7480
12 posted on 10/10/2001 2:19:28 PM PDT by patent
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To: Askel5
I still feel that -- by positing this as a war of Good Christians (hardly ...) against Evil Islam -- both we and the militant atheists can take our pick of targets among those former friends (or fellow militants) who have grown too powerful for the Globalists' collective peace of mind.
Men sitting in caves in Afghanistan are not the targets of any erstwhile globalists. The worst they can do to a NWO is bomb a few of its surfs and their cubicles, hardly a credible threat to those who don’t care about either. The elites will always have their security, and will rarely be directly threatened by the likes of Bin Laden et al. Should you wish to connect this war to globalism you will likely have to demonstrate an end game target in the West.

As to the militant atheists, they aren’t calling the shots here, but more likely protesting in the streets right now.

patent  +AMDG

13 posted on 10/10/2001 2:23:55 PM PDT by patent
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To: Askel5
I have an uneasy feeling, actually, with regard to the way they're picking the dates.

They're all too perfect.

Any significance, then, to October 13, the anniversary of the "Miracle of the Sun" and final Fatima apparition?

Or am I thinking too non-secularly?

14 posted on 10/10/2001 2:32:06 PM PDT by Dominus Vobiscum
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To: Dominus Vobiscum
Beginning of the ground war? or something worse?
15 posted on 10/10/2001 2:37:51 PM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Pyro7480
Bump for later reading!
16 posted on 10/10/2001 2:48:24 PM PDT by WyldKard
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To: Dominus Vobiscum
Hell if I know ... perhaps it'll be just another perestroika "Good against Evil" miracle and Islam will collapse without another shot's being fired ...

SECURITY and PROSPERITY for ALL ... courtesy of the Saving Graces of that Western Materialism wherein all "living" men are created equal and others are created for research and profit.

17 posted on 10/10/2001 2:49:45 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: patent
Men sitting in caves in Afghanistan are not the targets of any erstwhile globalists.

Save for those who end up "collateral damage" ... I doubt this whole operation's going to change their lives as much as it will ours.

Sorry if I seem "of little faith". I'm just having a hard time believing that it's all serendipity on the part of the Faith-Based Funding crowd.

18 posted on 10/10/2001 2:52:26 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: patent
The worst they can do is bomb a few serfs in their cubicles...

I see it quite differently. The WTC were in fact as close as one can come to the very nerve center of the NWO, at least in the Western Hemisphere. This hit nearly destabliized world markets and threw the world's reserve currency, the dollar, into the tank. At least that was the intent.

Furthermore, the WTC was not only in the very neighborhood of the Pratt House, but many insiders either worked or ran much of their business from the WTC. So it wasn't just their 'serfs' that took the hit.

As far as their quislings in Congress, when THOSE folks figured out that 1) they were on the hit list and nearly bought the farm, and 2) that one or more nuclear hits were very likely just down the little road in time, they pulled their paws out of each other's breeches for at least a minute, and pi$$ed their pants in the National Cathedral, solemnly mouthing out hymns from dusty books they hadn't held since childhood, with trembling hand and biting lip. I think THEY got the message.

And while the ME opposition is now beginning to waffle and back step (that's their way), the possibility of a client state like North Korea placing a portable nuke or two into the hands of those where a 'client state' can't be traced, is REAL. So IMHO, the NWO was caught off guard, having spent their proverbial wad trying to coverup-up their duplicity in preserving the the foolish excesses of the x42 administration and their reckless thirst for a global 'state'.

My feeling is that they're moving now in angst, knowing if they fail, their backs will be up against the wall in not too distant future. The good part is that they had to toss off 50 years of global effort at demonizing US national sovereignty, and once again embrace "the last refuge of the scoundral", US nationalism. They now need their serfs again, just as they did during WWII. Maybe less than I might have hoped for, but still a thrilling little victory for me to see them squirm and back-track behind OUR flag once again, even if it does mean a loss of liberty. I'm just pleased to have lived to witness them in a moment of humility born of their own making. It's funny how that "original sin" myth, and the notion of being "born again", keeps cropping it's head up in our visceral, mortal, spyche.

19 posted on 10/10/2001 2:56:22 PM PDT by Coyote
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To: Pyro7480
20 posted on 10/10/2001 2:56:57 PM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: Coyote
Call me the "eternal skeptic" of the existence of the NWO. The elites can be really dumb. I don't give them that much credit. They can barely keep each other from being at each other's throats. Yes, they are power hungry, but that's why we have the Second and First Amendments.
21 posted on 10/10/2001 3:00:10 PM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Pyro7480
Beginning of the ground war? or something worse?

Beats me. As long as we're tying dates and events together, I thought October 13 might be a significant date to look at.

I'm not a BIG believer in these date-event theories, but enough so to kind of keep my ears to the ground.

Just thought I'd ask the question....

22 posted on 10/10/2001 3:02:09 PM PDT by Dominus Vobiscum
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To: Pyro7480
23 posted on 10/10/2001 3:03:18 PM PDT by pax_et_bonum
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To: Dominus Vobiscum
I'm not really a believer in the date-event theory either. The coincidence is a bit creepy though. My mother once said the coincidence is another name for God. Who knows...
24 posted on 10/10/2001 3:04:19 PM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Askel5
Thanks for that link. I enjoyed the piece.

While I'm so rusty these days, I did at one time pay attention. I've read Ouspensky, Blavatsky, and the rest of the Theosophists, but far more importantly, only as an aside, along with ALL the much more important traditionals of the East and the West.

The thing that changed me most, however, was the day I finally read Proverbs with an open eye. When I realized that that wisdom had been in a little white book in my mother's bedroom drawer all those years I was chasing my sad little tail around this planet in search of truth, I was humbled beyond words. Not that she ever took it out, but that it was THERE, representing my heritage and link to the West. One thing led to another, and....well, you've read Original Sin.

Don't know if that means much, but it's genuine.

25 posted on 10/10/2001 3:07:36 PM PDT by Coyote
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To: Coyote
Have you tried to view this post with the new beta format. YUK! I had to force myself to even read your posts...which is not a normal thing I can assure you. Besides the color scheme the index info is all over the page. And you can't tell where things begin and end because they all blend to gether. We just recieved another shot of in-effectiveness.
26 posted on 10/10/2001 3:09:52 PM PDT by Revel
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To: Pyro7480
My mother once said that coincidence is another name for God.

NOW you're talking. I do believe that God works in these types of ways (can't say I have tons of evidence for it), but not predictably so.

Just ask Pat Robertson or Hal Lindsey...

27 posted on 10/10/2001 3:12:04 PM PDT by Dominus Vobiscum
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To: Pyro7480
I don't buy this conspiracy theory of yours

Well SOMEONE's got to be picking the right dates for the right reasons and I don't think it's the Holy Father although -- were I a bona fide conspiracy theorist -- I'd find it passing strange he just happened to be in Kazakhstan to speak to a crowd of 90% Muslims immediately after the tragedy as he continues closing in on Moscow with a string of extraordinary Papal visits to the former Soviet republics.

I'm just very wary of those who can pervert the self-evident truths of our Declaration, hound Christianity from the public square even as they seek to fund what "faith-based" programs they find suitably secular and devoid of faith. I find it strange it's exactly these who seek to confront as "EVIL" so-called fundamental Islam (and proceed to eradicate them like a bunch of Branch Davidians) when it's faithful Muslims and faithful Christians who alone stand firm to impede worldwide what seems the inexorable embrace of the West's Culture of Death.

You want "evil" ... look in the mirror as you use Scripture to rationalize the use of Already-Been-Killed embryos like shills to attract the "best and the brightest" to the ESCR your federal dollars will perpetuate until it hits Paydirt.

28 posted on 10/10/2001 3:17:29 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Pyro7480 Dominus Vobiscum
The coincidence is a bit creepy though. My mother once said the coincidence is another name for God. Who knows...

Perhaps. It's certainly made for some good sermons of late but when same are followed up by mention of the fact that a few Pole dockworkers and the power of prayer brought down the Evil Empire without a shot, I begin to despair ...

With any luck, I'm DEAD WRONG and perestroika was every bit as genuine as this so-called "Holy War" of "radical Islam".

29 posted on 10/10/2001 3:19:32 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Coyote
I went a great deal out of the way to go a short distance correctly myself.

Best regards, Coyote.

30 posted on 10/10/2001 3:21:08 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Pyro7480
Well, I use that NWO term loosely, understanding that power seeks power, and that there are clearly interests in this world constantly working toward their own ends. I'm not implying excessive conspiracy, much less embracing it, but if anyone just get's a grip long enough to listen, the power brokers of the modern world have been using that term to describe their own efforts on both side of "New Atlantis" for the past century. They don't have to take secret orders from mystical descendants of Adam Weisphalt. They just do much of the world's business together.

And while the Skull and Bones may not necessarily be the work of Satan, or the so called NWO have to represent a simple 'sinister plot to take over the world', they do represent the kind of kindred that helps to link power brokers and their natural dynasties together, as with ANY fraternal orders. If anyone doesn't think they have power, at least to discriminate, I suggest they attend Yale and attempt to join. You don't have to believe in chemical contrails to get the picture that power begets power, and as with any orgainzations, related groups leave an open trail for each other to follow. And if anyone accepts that basic street thugs like La Cosa Nostra represented power thrugh organized crime, it's not a great leap of faith to imagine highly educated, highly placed, highly wealthy power brokers in the world of finance and resources doing what they do best as well.

So you don't have to look too far to find their 'conspiracies'. The truth is that they don't really bother too much to hide them. It's just that most people don't bother to look beyond their daily lives in any attempt to understand the power policies of the planet.

As far as them being powerful, compared to me (and I assume you too), they're MUCH more powerful acting in concert toward what they want, than I am acting toward what I want. I think that should be axiomatic. But given this last little 911 hit, I think it shows just how human and fallible they really are. They make mistakes, just like the rest of us.

31 posted on 10/10/2001 3:31:48 PM PDT by Coyote
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To: Askel5; revel too
Askel5, you know, I'm really beginning to look forward to your posts. That GIF in #28 just about says it all, doesn't it? God, my often heavy heart. Were it only big enough to turn around and bust that viscious hound in the chops once and for all.

In the spirit of this thread, what soul of any hopeful magnitude can lay claim to the right to really exist until they've pulled those slimmy paws away from around their waist and formally challenged the sleazy spirit of that demon, who's haunted and devoured the blood of our lost innocence, ever since the fall?

32 posted on 10/10/2001 3:49:47 PM PDT by Coyote
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To: Coyote
That GIF in #28 just about says it all, doesn't it?

Well ... if you click it, you may find it says more.

To be honest, I'm not a big fiction fan ... very picky and (as with films) generally only pick up books on trusted recommendations (from the alive and dead =).

You can't go wrong, however, with Father Elijah and the rest of Michael O'Brien's "Children of the Last Days" series, Coyote. (You should maybe start with "Plague Journal" if you've not read any of them.) Father Elijah's some 500+ plus pages and I put it down only to rest my eyes a minute and maybe get a drink of water.

33 posted on 10/10/2001 3:58:45 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Askel5; patent; aquinasfan; Pyro7480
As an enormous fan of Father Elijah I can whole-heartedly recommend it to one and all.

The Anglo-American bombing in Afghanistan began at the exact moment that the Jewish Feast of Hoshanah Rabba began in the Holy Land. So not only was it the Feast of the Holy Rosary, it was also Hoshanah Rabba.

This Feast concerns God's final judgment of the nations.

In Jewish worship on the feast of Hoshanah Rabba, willow branches are waved before the Lord as the faithful march seven times around the Bema (where the Torah is openend), then they beat the willow branches on the ground. Willow in Hebrew is ARAVA. This word ARAVA also means wilderness, desert, the Plains of Moab, and ARAVA is used particularly in mystical literature to signify the whole world outside of the Holy Land.

In the Zohar, a holy book of the Jewish mystics called Kabbalists, the Zohar says that the great war between Esau and Ishmael will begin on Hoshanah Rabba. In Kabbalist literature Esau represents Christianity and Ishmael stands for Islam.

34 posted on 10/10/2001 5:12:20 PM PDT by father_elijah
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To: father_elijah
Thanks for that post.

I do understand it's being -- technically, I guess -- a war between "Islamics" and a "Christian nation" (ably assisted, I guess, by the newly-reminted Orthodox East).

I still have a hard time stomaching this as a real war between Christianity and Islam when the U.S. Government is about as Christian as Osama is a faithful Muslim.

For now, I'll compromise on the grounds that our Promethean vision is not quite as clear as our Epimethean:

Cars have windshields as well as rearview mirrors. So do civilizations. However, our rearward, Epimethean vision is far stronger than our forward, Promethean one. We have more archivists than prophets. For archivists see through a microscope, sharply, but prophets see through a glass, darkly.

Yet even the little the prophets see is of great importance to us. It is like the little but all-important view that a driver sees when peering through a tiny hole of light in a muddy windshield when the car is accelerating through thick fog over rocks and between abysses-in other words, when the situation is like that of our civilization.

The gift of prophecy, confined to a small number in Old Testament times, was offered to all Christians once the Holy Spirit, the One who makes and inspires prophets, was spread through the Church and into the world in the New Covenant. It is possible therefore without absurdity to call C. S. Lewis a prophet. Let us consult the writings of this most popular Christian author of our age with that hope in mind and look for some Lewis-light on our civilizational teeter, we who stand poised at the brink of spiritual suicide.

Peter Kreeft -- How to Save Western Civilization (Part I: A Philosophy of History)

35 posted on 10/10/2001 5:37:37 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Askel5
I did not see your 9/11/1683 thread. Were you noting the victory of the Christian King of Poland over the Muslims when he led the army that saved Vienna?
36 posted on 10/10/2001 5:46:40 PM PDT by father_elijah
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To: Askel5
Excellent quote from Peter, Askel5.

My view is that from a future perspective October 7th will be seen as the beginning of a great war. I believe my vantage point now can only see the opening skirmishes. I do not believe it is strictly speaking a war between Christians and Muslims -- yet. But I can envision acts of terror that could turn this into such a war.

However, we must keep watch and stand on guard not just for this current crop of visible enemies -- we must watch China, and we must look within.

37 posted on 10/10/2001 6:00:58 PM PDT by father_elijah
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To: Dominus Vobiscum
Borrowed from a website:
Exactly 33 years to the day prior to the miracle of the sun, on October 13, 1884, Pope Leo XIII had a vision. Here follows an account of that vision:

According to the most widely accepted version of what happened, On October 13, 1884, after Pope Leo XIII had finished celebrating Mass in the Vatican Chapel, attended by a few Cardinals and members of the Vatican staff, he suddenly stopped at the foot of the altar. He stood there for about 10 minutes, as if in a trance, his face ashen white. Then, going immediately from the Chapel to his office, he composed the prayer to St. Michael, with instructions it be said after all Low Masses everywhere.

Some were expecting this October 13th to be a day of great evil long before the attrocities on 9/11. Others have been talking about October 31st. As far as I am concerned every day holds its own opportunity and its own danger, so I will watch and pray, watch and pray.

38 posted on 10/10/2001 6:21:34 PM PDT by father_elijah
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To: Romulus
Where did you get that Belloc excerpt? Perhaps we can slip it in here unnoticed.
39 posted on 10/10/2001 6:34:15 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Askel5
The pared-down version I sent you is on my office computer. I'll slip it in tomorrow.

In the mean time, here's a link to the unabridged text of The Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed, a chapter from Hilaire Belloc's The Great Heresies.

40 posted on 10/10/2001 7:50:47 PM PDT by Romulus
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To: Askel5
He stared at it for a long time. Suddenly, the meaning of the mural became clear, like a scene viewed through lenses revolving into focus. The blurred shapes of reality drew together into a sharp, piercing landscape of moral disaster.

I'm fighting back the overwhelming urge to be sick, with a shudder, a chill, and watery eyes. From the look of the moment, getting to know you, I probably don't have to tell you that IT SUCKS TO HAVE PROPHETIC VISIONS. You probably already know that. You also know I went to great lengths to take that warning bell to those I saw who needed it most, wrapping it up in such a carefully tailored suit, it was not only well circulated here, but even published at LF City Times, that super secular, cynical stronghold of libertarianism. Although when they finally felt that hint of final judgement creeping up on their own necks, they burried it.

The visionary of our age can't help but see one thing. You're stuck with a vivid glimpse into the future, through that little space cleared in that dirty windshield, and like an innocent adolescent caught up in shock at his first glimpse of a pornographic image, you want to both scream and cry.

I've been away from the vision for some time, just suppressing it in order to get by, just to get along with my friends and loved ones. But it seems I've missed a great deal.

For decades I looked forward with delight toward the next image from that visionary gift. But now it's actually become a burden, a veritable curse. I can hardly bear to look ahead, because what I see is not only exceedingly dismal, it's apocalyptic. Tell me I'm over reacting. Please. But sometimes it seems like being caught in that very moment just before an automobile accident. That instant when you're still pushing on the brakes, but with less and less conviction, as the adrenaline rushes up and weakens your legs, because although you know you have to keep standing on that brake with all your might jsut as long as you can, you also realize there's no way you're going to avoid a terrible crash.

The very same authority that is virtually our only authority for believing that "God is love" also clearly teaches that God is just, and that those who do not meet him clothed in his gift of salvation and grace must meet him naked, without a wedding garment.

41 posted on 10/10/2001 10:46:31 PM PDT by Coyote
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To: Askel5
Unnoticed or not, here it is, from "The Great and Enduring Mohammedan Heresy" by Hilaire Belloc (1938):

"Millions of modern people of the white civilization - that is, the civilization of Europe and America - have forgotten all about Islam. They have never come in contact with it. They take for granted that it is decaying, and that, anyway, it is just a foreign religion which will not concern them. It is, as a fact, the most formidable and persistent enemy which our civilization has had, and may at any moment become as large a menace in the future as it has been in the past. …

"The last subject of all in this connection, the one which I will treat next, is the very important and almost neglected question of whether Mohammedan power may not re-arise in the modern world. …

"Today we are accustomed to think of the Mohammedan world as something backward and stagnant, in all material affairs at least. We cannot imagine a great Mohammedan fleet made up of modern ironclads and submarines, or a great modern Mohammedan army fully equipped with modern artillery, flying power and the rest. But not so very long ago, less than a hundred years before the Declaration of Independence, the Mohammedan Government centred at Constantinople had better artillery and better army equipment of every kind than had we Christians in the West. The last effort they made to destroy Christendom was contemporary with the end of the reign of Charles II in England and of his brother James and of the usurper William III. It failed during the last years of the seventeenth century, only just over two hundred years ago. Vienna, as we saw, was almost taken and only saved by the Christian army under the command of the King of Poland on a date that ought to be among the most famous in history - September 11, 1683. But the peril remained, Islam was still immensely powerful within a few marches of Austria and it was not until the great victory of Prince Eugene at Zenta in 1697 and the capture of Belgrade that the tide really turned - and by that time we were at the end of the seventeenth century.

"It should be fully grasped that the generation of Dean Swift, the men who saw the court of Louis XIV in old age, the men who saw the Hanoverians brought in as puppet Kings for England by the dominating English wealthy class, the men who saw the apparent extinction of Irish freedom after the failure of James II's campaign at the Boyne and the later surrender of Limerick, all that lifetime which overlapped between the end of the seventeenth and the beginning of the eighteenth century, was dominated by a vivid memory of a Mohammedan threat which had nearly made good and which apparently might in the near future be repeated. The Europeans of that time thought of Mohammedanism as we think of Bolshevism or as white men in Asia think of Japanese power today.

What happened was something quite unexpected; the Mohammedan power began to break down on the material side. The Mohammedans lost the power of competing successfully with the Christians in the making of those instruments whereby dominion is assured; armament, methods of communication and all the rest of it. Not only did they not advance, they went back. Their artillery became much worse than ours. While our use of the sea vastly increased, theirs sank away till they had no first class ships with which to fight naval battles.

"The eighteenth century is a story of their gradual losing of the race against the European in material things.

"When that vast revolution in human affairs introduced by the invention of modern machinery began in England and spread slowly throughout Europe, the Mohammedan world proved itself quite incapable of taking advantage thereof. During the Napoleonic wars, although supported by England, Islam failed entirely to meet the French armies of Egypt; its last effort resulted in complete defeat (the land battle of the Nile). ..

"To what was due this collapse? I have never seen an answer to that question. There was no moral disintegration from within, there was no intellectual breakdown; you will find the Egyptian or Syrian student today, if you talk to him on any philosophical or scientific subject which he has studied, to be the equal of any European. If Islam has no physical science now applied to any of its problems, in arms and communications, it has apparently ceased to be part of our world and fallen definitely below it. Of every dozen Mohammedans in the world today, eleven are actually or virtually subjects of an Occidental power. It would seem, I repeat, as though the great duel was now decided.

"But can we be certain it is so decided? I doubt it very much. It has always seemed to me possible, and even probable, that there would be a resurrection of Islam and that our sons or our grandsons would see the renewal of that tremendous struggle between the Christian culture and what has been for more than a thousand years its greatest opponent.

"Why this conviction should have arisen in the minds of certain observers and travellers, such as myself, I will now consider. It is indeed a vital question, "May not Islam arise again?"

"In a sense the question is already answered because Islam has never departed. It still commands the fixed loyalty and unquestioning adhesion of all the millions between the Atlantic and the Indus and further afield throughout scattered communities of further Asia. But I ask the question in the sense "Will not perhaps the temporal power of Islam return and with it the menace of an armed Mohammedan world which will shake off the domination of Europeans - still nominally Christian - and reappear again as the prime enemy of our civilization?" The future always comes as a surprise but political wisdom consists in attempting at least some partial judgment of what that surprise may be. And for my part I cannot but believe that a main unexpected thing of the future is the return of Islam. Since religion is at the root of all political movements and changes and since we have here a very great religion physically paralysed but morally intensely alive, we are in the presence of an unstable equilibrium which cannot remain permanently unstable. Let us then examine the position.

"I have said throughout these pages that the particular quality of Mohammedanism, regarded as a heresy, was its vitality. Alone of all the great heresies Mohammedanism struck permanent roots, developing a life of its own, and became at last something like a new religion. So true is this that today very few men, even among those who are highly instructed in history, recall the truth that Mohammedanism was essentially in its origins not a new religion, but a heresy.

"Like all heresies, Mohammedanism lived by the Catholic truths which it had retained. Its insistence on personal immortality, on the Unity and Infinite Majesty of God, on His Justice and Mercy, its insistence on the equality of human souls in the sight of their Creator - these are its strength.

"But it has survived for other reasons than these; all the other great heresies had their truths as well as their falsehoods and vagaries, yet they have died one after the other. The Catholic Church has seen them pass, and though their evil consequences are still with us the heresies themselves are dead…

"But Mohammedanism, though it also contained errors side by side with those great truths, flourished continually, and as a body of doctrine is flourishing still, though thirteen hundred years have passed since its first great victories in Syria. The causes of this vitality are very difficult to explore, and perhaps cannot be reached. For myself I should ascribe it in some part to the fact that Mohammedanism being a thing from the outside, a heresy that did not arise from within the body of the Christian community but beyond its frontiers, has always possessed a reservoir of men, newcomers pouring in to revivify its energies. But that cannot be a full explanation; perhaps Mohammedanism would have died but for the successive waves of recruitment from the desert and from Asia; perhaps it would have died if the Caliphate at Baghdad had been left entirely to itself; and if the Moors in the West had not been able to draw upon continual recruitment from the South.

"Whatever the cause be, Mohammedanism has survived, and vigorously survived. Missionary effort has had no appreciable effect upon it. It still converts pagan savages wholesale. It even attracts from time to time some European eccentric, who joins its body. But the Mohammedan never becomes a Catholic. No fragment of Islam ever abandons its sacred book, its code of morals, its organized system of prayer, its simple doctrine.

"In view of this, anyone with a knowledge of history is bound to ask himself whether we shall not see in the future a revival of Mohammedan political power, and the renewal of the old pressure of Islam upon Christendom…

"These things being so, the recrudescence of Islam, the possibility of that terror under which we lived for centuries reappearing, and of our civilization again fighting for its life against what was its chief enemy for a thousand years, seems fantastic. Who in the Mohammedan world today can manufacture and maintain the complicated instruments of modern war? Where is the political machinery whereby the religion of Islam can play an equal part in the modern world? I say the suggestion that Islam may re-arise sounds fantastic - but this is only because men are always powerfully affected by the immediate past: - one might say that they are blinded by it.

"Cultures spring from religions; ultimately the vital force which maintains any culture is its philosophy, its attitude toward the universe; the decay of a religion involves the decay of the culture corresponding to it - we see that most clearly in the breakdown of Christendom today. The bad work begun at the Reformation is bearing its final fruit in the dissolution of our ancestral doctrines - the very structure of our society is dissolving.

In the place of the old Christian enthusiasms of Europe there came, for a time, the enthusiasm for nationality, the religion of patriotism. But self-worship is not enough, and the forces which are making for the destruction of our culture, notably the Jewish Communist propaganda from Moscow, have a likelier future before them than our old-fashioned patriotism.

"In Islam there has been no such dissolution of ancestral doctrine - or, at any rate, nothing corresponding to the universal break-up of religion in Europe. The whole spiritual strength of Islam is still present in the masses of Syria and Anatolia, of the East Asian mountains, of Arabia, Egypt and North Africa.

"The final fruit of this tenacity, the second period of Islamic power, may be delayed: - but I doubt whether it can be permanently postponed.

"There is nothing in the Mohammedan civilization itself which is hostile to the development of scientific knowledge or of mechanical aptitude. I have seen some good artillery work in the hands of Mohammedan students of that arm; I have seen some of the best driving and maintenance of mechanical road transport conducted by Mohammedans. There is nothing inherent to Mohammedanism to make it incapable of modern science and modern war. Indeed the matter is not worth discussing. It should be self-evident to anyone who has seen the Mohammedan culture at work. That culture happens to have fallen back in material applications; there is no reason whatever why it should not learn its new lesson and become our equal in all those temporal things which now alone give us our superiority over it - whereas in Faith we have fallen inferior to it…

"Now it is probable enough that on these lines - unity under a leader - the return of Islam may arrive. There is no leader as yet, but enthusiasm might bring one and there are signs enough in the political heavens today of what we may have to expect from the revolt of Islam at some future date perhaps not far distant.

"After the Great War the Turkish power was suddenly restored by one such man. Another such man in Arabia, with equal suddenness, affirmed himself and destroyed all the plans laid for the incorporation of that part of the Mohammedan world into the English sphere. Syria, which is the connecting link, the hinge and the pivot of the whole Mohammedan world, is, upon the map, and superficially, divided between an English and a French mandate; but the two Powers intrigue one against the other and are equally detested by their Mohammedan subjects, who are only kept down precariously by force. There has been bloodshed under the French mandate more than once and it will be renewed while under the English mandate the forcing of an alien Jewish colony upon Palestine has raised the animosity of the native Arab population to white heat. Meanwhile a ubiquitous underground Bolshevist propaganda is working throughout Syria and North Africa continually, against the domination of Europeans over the original Mohammedan population.

"Lastly there is this further point to which attention should be paid: - the attachment (such as it is) of the Mohammedan world in India to English rule is founded mainly upon the gulf between the Mohammedan and Hindu religions. Every step towards a larger political independence for either party strengthens the Mohammedan desire for renewed power. The Indian Mohammedan will more and more tend to say: "If I am to look after myself and not to be favoured as I have been in the past by the alien European master in India - which I once ruled - I will rely upon the revival of Islam." For all these reasons (and many more might be added) men of foresight may justly apprehend, or at any rate expect, the return of Islam."

42 posted on 10/11/2001 8:10:20 AM PDT by Romulus
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To: Romulus AquinasFan JMJ333
Thanks. My Mom had a cached version but saved it as a .doc and I couldn't read through to the end of the article, even.
43 posted on 10/11/2001 8:26:59 AM PDT by Askel5
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To: Coyote
Very well said.
44 posted on 10/12/2001 4:00:55 PM PDT by foreshadowed at waco
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To: Coyote; Askel5
Askel5, you know, I'm really beginning to look forward to your posts.

Go back....its a trap! =)

45 posted on 10/12/2001 7:40:39 PM PDT by eddie willers
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To: Coyote
Dear Coyote ... your reply has been on my mind. Words fail at present. You understand.

It would be a lie to pretend you're over-reacting. Yet, at the same time there is a certain consolation.

I speak a lot of time about conflict of "eternal present" proportions yet -- at the same time -- I recognize that I'm using the phrase in the context of Time. To be truthful, it's in engaging the "eternal present" of this plane that one does find real hope and the faith necessary to face one's circumstances and visions without fear.

It's only then you tap into the truly awesome and become an instrument for real justice and that omnipotent love (and mercy) which conquers all.

That you've done -- and done well -- else folks like me would not have seized on your posts and, with the clarity reflection on same afforded, answered your clarion call to fight the good fight.

There is an Is, Was and Ever Shall Be to this world ... and the next. In the words of another good man and true I love and have followed for years on this forum ...

May God continue to steer you to the truth. May He continue to flow through your body, mind, spirit and soul. I pray that He will continue to fill you with His boldness and fire. And I pray that He will continue to guide your every step, on His path, until you can reach out and grab His loving hands, and enter into the joys of the Lord, on the streets of gold, with your brothers and sisters in Christ, in a new Heaven, in His paradise.

If anyone ever asks you what you would wish for if you could have anything you want, tell them what I tell them. My only hope and desire it to hear my Lord say:

Well done, though good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things ... enter thou into the joy of thy Lord.

That is all that really matters. Everything else is dust in the wind. God bless.

46 posted on 10/12/2001 9:40:08 PM PDT by Askel5
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