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Is Islam Violent?
Chuckmorse.com ^ | Oct. 11, 2001 | Chuck Morse

Posted on 10/11/2001 10:52:36 AM PDT by Chuckmorse

Is Islam Violent?

As Americans we are steeped in republican values such as limited government, individual rights, and a separation of church and state.
We traditionally view our neighbor with a live and let live attitude and, while we may not always approve, more often than not we tolerate our differences.
This is why, with all our imperfections, and God knows we have many, we somehow hold together as the most genuinely diverse society ever known to man.

As a result, we seem to have this almost myopic view of the rest of the world.
We assume that all faiths, political as well as religious, are like ours, which tends to involve a personal relationship with a God whom we look to as the creator of our natural sovereign rights.
We have trouble imagining a nation under the direct rule of clerics, or commissars, who interpret the will of God, or science, and use the muscular force of the state to carry out their interpretations.

Our nation was born after a bloody revolution against a tyrannical British monarch, King George III.
This experience imbued our founding generation with a respect for the sovereign rights of nations.
America has often championed the cause of independence from Latin America in the nineteenth century to Europe during the World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, and Kuwait.
We instinctively loathed European colonialism with its attempt to physically dominate the world.
Likewise, we as a people rejected the maniacal new world order visions of both Nazism and Communism.

While we’ve certainly had our share of imperialists operating in the inner reaches of our government and amongst a small segment of our most wealthy establishment, the American people have been notoriously opposed to world dominating schemes.
It has never been an element of our religious or political faith.
Our idea of utopia has always been to live in peace, under our proverbial fig tree, and leave our neighbor alone to peruse the same.
Jefferson expressed this best when he noted in the Declaration of Independence that the truths we hold to be self-evident are “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

The vast majority of Muslims who have settled in America have, thank God, adopted the same peaceful American faith that most of the rest of us have regardless of individual means of worshiping God or not worshiping as the case may be.
The same cannot be said of the nations of the world which are presently dominated by religious Muslims.
The religious Muslim movement, like Nazism and left-wing Communism before it, has seized the reigns of power in several sovereign states.
Like the Nazi’s and Communists, they are using that power to spread terror across the planet.

The citizens of these Islamic states chafe under the same type of brutal authoritarianism and one party religious dictatorship as Europeans suffered under Nazism or that Chinese, Cubans or North Koreans suffer under the brutal jackboot of left-wing Communism.
The mobs coursing through the streets of Islamic cities chanting anti-American slogans are the same as the Nazi brown shirts looting Jewish businesses during Kristalnacht or Communists burning and looting American inner cities during the summer of love.

Even though we may be loath to admit it, religious Islam clearly does contain seeds of violence of a type similar to that of its Nazi and Communist counterparts.
Like their counterparts, Islam advocates war, or Jihad, as a means of conquering the non-Islamic world.
Moderate Muslims have westernized the meaning of Jihad to mean peaceful personal struggle and this is a genuinely progressive development.
Like the Nazis and Communists, however, the religious Muslims believe that world peace and happiness will be obtained under what they maintain is the only true faith.
Like the Nazis and Communists, they believe that anything is permissible in the pursuit of this glorious goal including total subjugation of peoples and mass murder.

Chuck Morse Is the author of “Why I’m a Right-Wing Extremist” www.chuckmorse.com


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
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1 posted on 10/11/2001 10:52:36 AM PDT by Chuckmorse
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To: Chuckmorse
So Chuck what are recommeding? Ban Islam?! Kill all their leaders and convert them to Christianity?
2 posted on 10/11/2001 10:59:54 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Chuckmorse
The citizens of these Islamic states chafe under the same type of brutal authoritarianism and one party religious dictatorship as Europeans suffered under Nazism or that Chinese, Cubans or North Koreans suffer under the brutal jackboot of left-wing Communism.

Unfortunately, they often "chafe under" this rule in the same way the Germans "chafed" under Hitler. 95%+ of Germans in the late 30's absolutely adored Hitler. Islamist governments are often very popular with their own people. They would have gained more than 80% of the parliamentary seats in free elections in Algeria had the military not rebelled (luckily).

Democracy does not always mean freedom or peace. Under a pure democracy 51% of the people can legally vote to kill the other 49%.

BTW, referring to the extremist Moslems as "religious Moslems" is a poor choice of words. Are the moderates not then "non-religious?"

3 posted on 10/11/2001 11:01:18 AM PDT by Restorer
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To: Chuckmorse
Is Islam Violent?

The answer to that has to be yes. Apart from the big things such as terrorism, on an every day level as well.

There was an incident in my town a few months ago, where worshippers (or should I say men) visiting the local mosque parked their cars on double yellow lines (restricted areas)and the local traffic wardens (don't know what you call them) issued them with tickets. The upshot of this was that a mob came out of the mosque and attacked the wardens, bringing the police on the scene.

For the life of me I just couldn't imagine the same thing happening outside a chrisian church or synagogue.

4 posted on 10/11/2001 11:09:45 AM PDT by BritBulldog
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To: Restorer
Human nature, being what it is, can easily resort to murder of fellow citizens, if someone of authority gives them the 'justification and the right'. Witness our abortion policy in America, killing 1.2 million unborn per year because the SCOTUS has sanctioned the right to choose a serial killer to deal with a personal/societal problem; witness the slaughter undertaken in Jedwabne, Poland, July 10, 1941, when the invading Nazis okayed the slaughter of fellow citizens that happened to be Jews, by non-Jews.

If the Moslem community doesn't clean this cancer of radical/fanatical Islamism out of the body of Islamic religion, then the perception to Moslems vulnerable to hating non-Muslims and commiting violence against such will interpret the silence as sanctioning the violence. That is extremely dangerous ... to the Moslem faithful in the long run, because when our non-Moslem self-defence begins, descrimination between radical and peaceful Moslems will be set aside.

5 posted on 10/11/2001 11:25:44 AM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: Chuckmorse
FYI: Compare and contrast - side by side topics

BIBLE vs. KORAN

6 posted on 10/11/2001 11:29:27 AM PDT by PaxMacian
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To: Chuckmorse
This piece is simplistic at best. Americans by and large today do not have the 'live and let live' attitude of the original revolutionaries. If you'll recall there was large support to bomb the bejeezus out of Serbia, with very little proof of Milosevics guilt. Same with Afghanistan and Bin Laden.

IMHO, this article couldn't be more self gratifying.

7 posted on 10/11/2001 11:47:13 AM PDT by mxbluto
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To: MHGinTN
Well put. The Moslems who are trying to incite a religious war remind me of the idiiotic blacks who want to incite a race war in the US. If they succeeded, I know who would lose. Nobody would win, of course, but the blacks would definitely lose in a race war with whites. Moslems would totally lose a religious war with non-Moslems or even just with those they perceive as Christians and Jews.

Almost no "Christians" I know want such a war, but almost no English, French or Americans wanted a war with Germany in 1939.

8 posted on 10/11/2001 11:51:21 AM PDT by Restorer
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To: Chuckmorse
Islam is the BORG of the 20th and 21st Century.
9 posted on 10/11/2001 11:52:03 AM PDT by lgjhn
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To: Restorer
Almost no "Christians" I know want such a war, but almost no English, French or Americans wanted a war with Germany in 1939. Well and truly stated! we in the West are at war, and it is a war against the radical fundamentalist totalitarian upwelling in Islam ... I call it Islamism to relate it to other totalitarian isms, though I didn't coin the term. If those in Islam who truly want to co-exist do not excise this cancerous demon, I know who will; sadly, they'll have my blessing though the prospect is terrible to contemplate.
10 posted on 10/11/2001 11:57:37 AM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: PaxMacian
"Compare and contrast...."

I've lived through many exams in school where we were asked to do the above.
I never wanted to get thrown out of class but was always curious:
Could anybody please compare and contrast "Comparing and Contrasting"?

11 posted on 10/11/2001 12:05:54 PM PDT by APBaer
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To: Chuckmorse
While your argument is plausible and should be considered, I don't think you prove it. The lesson of the 20th century, and of many other centuries is that given certain circumstances any culture can commit terrible crimes. Check out this article on Jihad and the theory of the "just war". As with other religions, what Islam says depends a lot on what you want it to say, and what you bring to it. Certainly the history of our civilization indicates that this is true of Christianity or Judaism as well.
12 posted on 10/11/2001 12:06:59 PM PDT by x
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To: Chuckmorse
My history professor told us that Islam's meteoritic sweep across North Africa, into Spain, was accompanined with the war cry "Death to the infidels."
13 posted on 10/11/2001 12:26:13 PM PDT by thinktwice
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: Chuckmorse
Even though we may be loath to admit it, religious Islam clearly does contain seeds of violence of a type similar to that of its Nazi and Communist counterparts.

Is Islam Violent?

Sure it is. Since its inception in the early seventh century AD, Islam has been about conquering Jews and Christians and turning everyone to Allah. According to the Koran the Muslims ONLY consider other Muslims as their brothers and sisters and the non-Muslims are considered non-believers of God.

Here are just a few verses taken from the Koran:

"Fight against those to whom the scriptures were given, who believe not in Allah nor in the Last Day, who forbid not what Allah and His Apostle have forbidden, and follow not the true faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are humbled." (Koran 9,29) The call to fight against those who are non-believers is in the Koran, which teaches Muslims to fight and kill those heathens who will not accept the faith.

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seek their friendship shall become one of their numbers. Allah does not guide the wrong-doers." (Koran 5:51) In this verse Allah is clearly instructing his followers never to befriend non-Muslims, in particular the Christians and Jews.

"Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them." (Koran 8:12.) The above verse from the Koran is giving step-by-step instructions to Muslims on how to torture and kill Kafirs (non-Muslims) if they don't follow Islam.

"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate." (Koran 9:73) The above verse from the Koran is completely justifying war and barbaric acts on non-Muslims.

"In order that Allah may separate the impure from the pure, put all the impure ones (Non-Muslim), one on top of the another in a Heap and cast them into Hell. They will be the ones to have lost" (Koran 8:37.) The above verses instructs the Muslims to invade, destroy, kill and convert by force, something they have done for the past 1400 years.

Muhammad the founder of Islam (570-632 A.D.), drew the Arabs to Islam by promising salvation for those who died fighting for Islam. Islam preaches that non-Muslims should be converted by force or killed.

Islam is the fastest growing religion. The speed of this religious expansion can be attributed to the fact that it is accomplished through military conquest and forced conversions.

Islam actually preaches that the Muslims should invade and take over the world. There are over 40 Islamic countries around the world. Each of which was taken by force and millions of the original inhabitants were killed and millions were converted by force.

"It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful." (Koran 69:30-37)

15 posted on 10/11/2001 12:27:03 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: William Wallace
FYI.
16 posted on 10/11/2001 12:28:56 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Chuckmorse
Odd, but I've not yet read of a single case where any Moslem in the US has gone to the police with info about the planned activities of their terrorist Moslem brothers.
17 posted on 10/11/2001 12:33:29 PM PDT by atafak
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To: Austin Willard Wright
So Chuck what are you recommending? Ban Islam?! Kill all their leaders and convert them to Christianity?

Kill their leaders and send in the missionaries? - a good start.

18 posted on 10/11/2001 12:35:23 PM PDT by rightofrush
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To: Restorer
Almost no "Christians" I know want such a war, but almost no English, French or Americans wanted a war with Germany in 1939.

Churchhill and FDR did, and they prevailed.

19 posted on 10/11/2001 12:40:40 PM PDT by rightofrush
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To: Chuckmorse
Islam is a heresy. As a heresy it has been authored by satan, the father of lies. For the soul, it offers spiritual death and destruction. For the flesh, it serves up murder and torture. If Islam weren't at its heart about violence and violent world-domination, Islam would not be the dominant religion in any nation.

Queen Isabella of Spain understood well that the Muslims could not be permitted to dwell among Christians -- that they were an evil that could only be dealt with by expulsion. That so many Muslims in Spain then pretended to be Jews helps give context to the sad expulsion of Jews from Spain on the 9th of Ab.

Until the United States understand who the enemy is and that we as a nation must repent of our callous disregard for human life in the womb, the United States will be in distress and at the non-existent mercy of Islam.

20 posted on 10/11/2001 12:49:06 PM PDT by father_elijah
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To: Chuckmorse
Is Islam Violent?

Is a frog's *** watertight?

21 posted on 10/11/2001 12:49:25 PM PDT by Publius6961
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: All
According to the Koran, the Muslim bible, they kill Christians and Jews and anyone else who will not convert to Islam. Read it for yourself instead of listening to the news, since they are not interested in facts.
23 posted on 10/11/2001 1:44:56 PM PDT by Righter-than-Rush
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To: Chuckmorse
Surely I'm not the first to ask, "Is the Pope Catholic?"
24 posted on 10/11/2001 2:28:41 PM PDT by garyhope
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To: Victoria Delsoul
Islam actually preaches that the Muslims should invade and take over the world. There are over 40 Islamic countries around the world. Each of which was taken by force and millions of the original inhabitants were killed and millions were converted by force.

Thanks for the flag Victoria. Excellent comments.

Most Muslim countries around the world are dictatorships; they differ only in the degree of oppression and brutality inflicted upon their non-Muslim citizens. In every country with a Muslim majority population, the minority population is terrorized and persecuted in the name of Islam.

The US and its allies say we are not at war with Islam. But bin Laden, his terrorist networks and the states that harbor and support them certainly disagree. They certainly think they are engaged in a religious war against the great Satan, and their objective is to kill the infidels and destroy Western civilization.

We ignore or downplay their threats at our peril.

25 posted on 10/11/2001 2:33:28 PM PDT by William Wallace
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To: Chuckmorse

Click above banner to go to site.

:

26 posted on 10/11/2001 2:42:24 PM PDT by ppaul
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To: Austin Willard Wright
How about if we just keep them out of our country, and insist they abide by basic civilized rules? I will believe that Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion when I see Islamic countries allow religious freedom and practice tolerance within their borders. Not likely.
27 posted on 10/11/2001 2:52:43 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX
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To: Restorer
Show me a democratic Muslim country. We don't have a democracy this is a republic. In what country do Muslims have the greatest freedom to practice their faith? Christians do not have rights in Muslim countries. That's enough for me to trash this bogus religion.
28 posted on 10/11/2001 2:59:21 PM PDT by ChiMark
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To: ChiMark
Show me a democratic Muslim country.

I read somewhere on this forum that Turkey is the only one.

29 posted on 10/11/2001 3:15:32 PM PDT by Mushinronshasan
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To: PaxMacian
Thanks for a Wonderful Quick reference guide! Maranatha!!
30 posted on 10/11/2001 3:45:27 PM PDT by chicagolady
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To: Chuckmorse
Is Islam violent? Of course not, a religion cannot be anything physical. Are the devotees of the Koran a death cult? Of course they are. Until they create a civilization that can build things, not destroy them, nurture life, and not preach and rejoice at the taking of it, they will remain so. Of course I will be called a Xenophobe, a racist, or worse, but that doesn't matter, the truth, is the truth.
31 posted on 10/11/2001 4:02:54 PM PDT by jeremiah
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To: Chuckmorse
Does the bear shi'ite in the woods?
32 posted on 10/11/2001 4:07:46 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: Mushinronshasan
In addition to Turkey, add Egypt, Algeria, Bangladesh, Indonesia (the most populous Muslim nation). Women can vote in all these countries as well.

Bangladesh and Indonesia currently have elected *female* heads of state. (Turkey and Pakistan have also had female Prime Ministers in the past.)

Pakistan was a democracy until it was hijacked by the military relatively recently (another reason besides the unauthorized nuke testing we had sanctions against them. They've apparently been lifted as a trade for their cooperation in the operation on Afghanistan.)

There are many pseudo-democracies as well where there are public elections for some of the chambers/parliaments or some elected heads of government combined with an appointed (or royal) head of state.

33 posted on 10/11/2001 4:09:29 PM PDT by Gobsmacked
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To: Chuckmorse
Yes, Islam foments violence and that is why the U.S. has finally resolved to fight against it and its evil followers.
34 posted on 10/11/2001 4:10:43 PM PDT by theoutsideman
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To: Chuckmorse
Do filthy Afghans have B.O.?

Does Bin Laden rape women?

Do bears defecate in the woods?

35 posted on 10/11/2001 4:12:04 PM PDT by Doc Savage
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Kill all their leaders and convert them to Christianity?

Sounds like an idea whose time has come.

36 posted on 10/11/2001 4:27:16 PM PDT by winstonchurchill
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To: matamoros
You may as well add the U.S. to that list. We have a sizable population of muslims in this country. Bob Grant (radio talk show host) quoted a muslim leader (I can neither remember his name, nor pronounce it anyway), that "soon enough of our brothers will populate America that we can vote in government officials who are sympathetic to Islam." They mean to take over this country one way or the other.
37 posted on 10/11/2001 4:28:22 PM PDT by In mourning for six years
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To: winstonchurchill
Are you serious? If you are, you are talking about World War III squared. How about a more realistic alternative? Retaliate and get the hell out of that screwed up region, lock, stock, barrel.
38 posted on 10/11/2001 4:59:55 PM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Pining_4_TX
Even better, let's stay out of that screwed up region once we have retaliated. What possible benefit could there be for the U.S. to become more deeply entangled there?
39 posted on 10/11/2001 5:01:19 PM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: ppaul
That was an awesome site which answered many questions. Thanks.
40 posted on 10/11/2001 5:56:38 PM PDT by The Right Stuff
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To: rightofrush
Islam needs to learn "The Golden Rule". We may have to teach them the hard way, by doing unto them what they have done to others. {:^)
41 posted on 10/11/2001 6:06:49 PM PDT by lds23
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To: rightofrush
Churchhill and FDR did, and they prevailed.

Even they didn't want to fight a war with Germany. They merely recognized the necessity of fighting to prevent Germany gaining complete control of the resources of the European continent, which would have eventually given it the rest of the world.

There is a difference between wanting a war and bowing to its necessity. Lincoln didn't want a war with the South, he merely refused to recognize the breakup of the Union. (Said while ducking.)

42 posted on 10/11/2001 6:08:57 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: matamoros
Islam is the religion of deserts, dry lands, mountains and other desolate places.
43 posted on 10/11/2001 6:14:24 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: Austin Willard Wright
What possible benefit could there be for the U.S. to become more deeply entangled there?

Ever hear of oil? For the US to withdraw from the Gulf and leave its oil to enemies would result in a massive reduction in American standard of living. Probably only temporary (5 years), since other resources could be tapped, but still.

44 posted on 10/11/2001 6:14:58 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: Chuckmorse

HERE'S A CALENDAR FOUND IN SOME MUSLIM SCHOOL IN HOLLAND, NOW DOES THIS LOOK VIOLENT...OH NO, NOT AT ALL!(SARCASM)

45 posted on 10/11/2001 6:16:52 PM PDT by KLT
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To: ppaul
Good site, I think!

I admit I scanned a lot of it, but where I did stop and do some close reading, seemed pretty right on.

46 posted on 10/11/2001 6:22:05 PM PDT by lds23
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To: William Wallace
The US and its allies say we are not at war with Islam. But bin Laden, his terrorist networks and the states that harbor and support them certainly disagree. They certainly think they are engaged in a religious war against the great Satan, and their objective is to kill the infidels and destroy Western civilization.

We ignore or downplay their threats at our peril.

I totally agree with you, William. Thanks for your post.

47 posted on 10/11/2001 6:25:34 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Restorer
Even they didn't want to fight a war with Germany.

Oh? They both wanted to save Stalin's *ss.
BTW, Lincoln lovers need to be skillful duckers.

48 posted on 10/12/2001 12:05:24 AM PDT by rightofrush
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To: rightofrush
Oh? They both wanted to save Stalin's *ss.

You obviously don't know much about Churchill, at least. He hated Communism only slightly less than Naziism. He recognized the Nazis (accurately) as the greater threat. Not because they were more evil, but because they were more competent. You would prefer a world with Nazis in undisputed control of the manpower and natural and industrial resources of Europe, the Middle East and the old Soviet Union? How long would the US have lasted against such odds?

You may be right about FDR.

BTW, Lincoln lovers need to be skillful duckers.

Well aware of that fact.

I am no Lincolnolator. I just recognize that he accomplished something probably nobody else could have, the preservation (or reconstitution, depending on your point of view) of the US as a single country. I believe the world would be a much worse place today if the US had not been united in facing the challenges of the 20th century. It seems highly unlikely that both Naziism and Communism would have been defeated without a United States to lead the resistance.

49 posted on 10/12/2001 8:22:33 AM PDT by Restorer
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To: Chuckmorse
bump to the top!!
50 posted on 11/04/2001 1:07:44 AM PST by timestax
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