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Bin Laden 'will be betrayed'
The Guardian ^ | 10/11/01 | Staff and agencies

Posted on 10/11/2001 3:49:36 PM PDT by veronica

Bin Laden 'will be betrayed'

Staff and agencies

Thursday October 11, 2001

Osama bin Laden will probably be betrayed by an Afghan who will lead allied forces to the world's most wanted man, the Ministry of Defence claimed today. Sir Michael Boyce, Britain's chief of defence, said the current aerial bombardment would probably "flush out" Bin Laden - and if that failed someone would inform on him.

He also predicted that the offensive would last through the winter and well into next year.

He said: "What you can do is make support for that man so difficult that eventually someone will give him up. "I think the pressure we are putting on the country will flush him out and he will be flushed out by an Afghan person who doesn't support him, probably, in the first instance, and when he finds him he will tell us and we will do something about it."

As American warplanes continued daylight raids over Afghanistan, Sir Michael brought reporters in London up to date on the progress of the war. "We must expect to go through the winter and into next summer at the very least," he said.

"I certainly see the tempo fluctuating. I think it is certainly possible there will be a slowdown in the near future while we take stock." He indicated that if coalition ground troops were sent into Afghanistan, they would be likely to include the Royal Marines 3 Commando Brigade, currently taking part in exercises in Oman.

"They are our expert mountain and winter warfare troops," he said. "If we were to be thinking about doing any operations in Afghanistan on the ground, then clearly they would be one of the units we would give very close consideration to."

He made it clear that any deployment of ground troops would probably only be for a short period with very clearly defined objectives. "There needs to be a very clear reason for going in. It is not a country, as history has told us, for us to linger in, other than to go in for a very specific task and then withdraw again," he said.

Sir Michael said that the air strikes were having a "huge psychological effect" on the Taliban amid signs that the regime was beginning to fracture under the pressure.

"The Taliban leadership may make defiant statements, but the Talibs on the ground can see which way the wind is blowing," he said.

"They should be getting the message about our determination to root out al-Qaida. They have seen not just the coalition's military power but its resolve."

More than 40 targets inside Afghanistan have been hit during the raids and Sir Michael said that while the results of the battle damage assessment had been "encouraging", more needed to be done.

Afghan refugees who fled into neighbouring Pakistan said that the airport at Kandahar, where at least 300 Bin Laden followers used to live, and a terrorist training camp at nearby Maiwan were both hit in last night's raids.

US warplanes used 5,000lb "bunker buster" bombs, designed to penetrate reinforced strongholds, for the first time in a shift of tactics designed to clear the way for possible commando raids or the deployment of ground forces.

The Taliban claimed that more than 100 people died in last night's air raids in the heaviest bombardment so far by forces involved in Operation Enduring Freedom.

The Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, Abdul Salam Zaeef, said that they included 15 civilians "martyred" outside a mosque when US warplanes attacked the city of Jalalabad.

"The number is increasing with the passage of time. The pentagon is lying to the world when it says it is not hitting civilians," he said.

The defence secretary, Geoff Hoon, said that the claims - which had not been independently verified - would be thoroughly investigated. He said that every effort was made to "minimise" civilian casualties.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
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1 posted on 10/11/2001 3:49:36 PM PDT by veronica
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To: veronica
Yeah, I read a similar story somewhere today. Thanks for posting this. Sooner or later it'll be in someone's interest to get rid of him if we don't get him first. These Afghan guys are notorious side switchers. Just ask the Russians.
2 posted on 10/11/2001 3:52:46 PM PDT by TKEman
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To: veronica
Osama bin Laden will probably be betrayed by an Afghan who will lead allied forces to the world's most wanted man, the Ministry of Defence claimed today. Sir Michael Boyce, Britain's chief of defence, said the current aerial bombardment would probably "flush out" Bin Laden - and if that failed someone would inform on him.

A reward is no good to someone if they are killed trying to earn it. That's one of the limiting factors of using bounties to get to bin Laden. And that is why it will take ground forces - an informer will be able to come forward and survive the experience, and the Special Forces will have the pleasure of arranging an early meeting between bin Laden and Allah.

3 posted on 10/11/2001 3:54:53 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: veronica
I hope so, it seems his own siblings are at least in public disowning him. For $5 million, it won't take long for someone to betray him, plus they'd prove they were on the side of Good.
4 posted on 10/11/2001 4:30:27 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: veronica
Unlike us, consistent bombing will make the resolve of the Afghans diminish. Right.
5 posted on 10/11/2001 4:31:38 PM PDT by AGAviator
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To: veronica
History teaches us that somebody, sometime will sell him out be it for money, power or to settle old debts.
6 posted on 10/11/2001 4:33:18 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: AGAviator
Unlike us, consistent bombing will make the resolve of the Afghans diminish. Right.

Unlike you, I'm not concerned with the Afghans resolve. What I am concerned with is the theory that as long as you are punching the other guy in the face there is not much he can do in return.

And while we're punching them in the face, somebody will rat out Mr OBL and his crew and they will then get to meet the guys with the painted faces, Benelli shotguns and bad attitudes toward people who kill Americans.

7 posted on 10/11/2001 4:37:24 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
History also teaches that even violently quarreling people frequently unify against a perceived common enemy who appears uninterested in any of them.
8 posted on 10/11/2001 4:39:26 PM PDT by AGAviator
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To: AGAviator
"even violently quarreling people frequently unify against a perceived common enemy who appears uninterested in any of them."

Exactly - look how many times Curly caught it when he was just standing there while Larry and Moe argued...

9 posted on 10/11/2001 4:46:57 PM PDT by onehipdad
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: onehipdad
Or a far less funny example, when police get called to break up a family fight.
11 posted on 10/11/2001 4:48:40 PM PDT by AGAviator
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To: AGAviator
Unlike us, consistent bombing will make the resolve of the Afghans diminish. Right.

Quick, someone email AGAviator photos of the thousands of Iraqis surrendering to US forces, CNN camera crews, and unmanned aerial drones...

12 posted on 10/11/2001 4:50:47 PM PDT by Dan Day
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To: Dan Day
That's why they were lining up to surrender to the Soviets, who bombed them for 10 years.
13 posted on 10/11/2001 4:58:07 PM PDT by AGAviator
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To: AGAviator
they=the Afghans
14 posted on 10/11/2001 4:58:44 PM PDT by AGAviator
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To: AGAviator
That's why they were lining up to surrender to the Soviets, who bombed them for 10 years.

The Soviets wanted to take over their country. We do not. Consider the difference.

15 posted on 10/11/2001 5:16:31 PM PDT by Dan Day
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To: veronica
If we do get him alive, he needs to fall down a long flight of stairs. Otherwise we'll have to bring his slimey carcass to America.
16 posted on 10/11/2001 6:42:45 PM PDT by AlaskaErik
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To: Dan Day
As I recall the surrendering Iraqis were yelling "George Bush, George Bush." Now the Afhans will have the same opportunity.
17 posted on 10/11/2001 6:48:34 PM PDT by breakem
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To: onehipdad
Curly caught a lot , but so did Larry. Larry Fine's children stated that the left side of their father's face was leathery due to all the slapping he took from Moe. I used to think the violence was fake.
18 posted on 10/11/2001 6:48:48 PM PDT by driftless
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To: AlaskaErik
"If we do get him alive, he needs to fall down a long flight of stairs. Otherwise we'll have to bring his slimey carcass to America."

I heard a radio talk show caller last night recommend that if OBL were captured, he should be covertly transported to the U.S., where a team of crack surgeons could administer an involuntary sex change. Upon completion of his, "transition," he could be smuggled back into the moslem world as a woman. I found the idea intriguing.

19 posted on 10/11/2001 6:58:28 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: AGAviator
Unlike us, consistent bombing will make the resolve of the Afghans diminish. Right.

So you think America is being bombed as heavily as Afghanistan has been in recent days?

20 posted on 10/11/2001 7:00:45 PM PDT by WarrenC
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To: veronica
Actually, bin Laden went to a fortune teller and asked what day he would die. The fortune teller told him he would die on an American holiday. He asked which one.

"Oh, that doesn't matter. The day YOU die is going to BECOME an American holiday!"

21 posted on 10/11/2001 7:01:48 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: veronica
Usama bin Clinton was reported hiding in hardened underground bunkers, his sacred buttocks lip moistened and protected by his elite media bodyguards, including Mohammed Rivera and Mustafa Gumbal.

But who, oh who will be the betrayer?

22 posted on 10/11/2001 7:02:54 PM PDT by TheGoodDoc
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To: Joe 6-pack
,,, he could have some pigs' ears substituted for his own too. He could phone his momma again and say "something big has just happened; it may be a while before you hear from me again."
23 posted on 10/11/2001 7:09:37 PM PDT by shaggy eel
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: WarrenC
The operative phrase is "recent days." They lost 2 million out of a prewar population of 17 million - over 10 percent. Another 10 million became refugees either internally or externally. There's been no attempt to give them anything positive to look forward to, other than if they get rid of Bin Ladin the bombing may - or may not - top.

I may as well point out the Soviets had bounties on the heads of various field commanders during their 10 years in the country, and none of the major ones ever got captured.

26 posted on 10/11/2001 10:30:43 PM PDT by AGAviator
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To: Dan Day
Consider the difference

It's not me you need to be persuading.

27 posted on 10/11/2001 10:32:43 PM PDT by AGAviator
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To: AlaskaErik
If we do get him alive, he needs to fall down a long flight of stairs.

LOL! All the way to H.......!!

28 posted on 10/11/2001 10:36:31 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: TKEman
would obl consider setting off a nuke in afghanistan just to blame the Americans?
29 posted on 10/11/2001 10:37:09 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch
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To: InvisibleChurch
Would we set one off and blame it on him?
30 posted on 10/11/2001 11:02:02 PM PDT by paul51
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To: AGAviator
There's been no attempt to give them anything positive to look forward to, other than if they get rid of Bin Ladin the bombing may - or may not - top.

I think you need to consider that the Taliban are not exactly the popular guys on the block in Afghanistan. While many non-afghans and some nationals support the Taliban, I believe most Afghans really do look forward to a Taliban free Afghan.

I agree that tribal forces will unite to fight a common foe, but at this moment most of the tribal forces do not view America as the enemy, but rather a liberator.

That of course could change in a heartbeat for about a hundred reasons.

31 posted on 10/12/2001 2:37:29 AM PDT by Fzob
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To: InvisibleChurch
I don't know. I think if he had a nuke, then he'd use it on the west.
32 posted on 10/12/2001 5:02:02 AM PDT by TKEman
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To: Fzob
At this moment most of the tribal forces do not view America as the enemy, but rather a liberator

Since I happen to know people who have contacts with said "tribal forces," I have to tell you that you are wrong.

That of course could change in a heartbeat for about a hundred reasons

It has changed. Count on it.

33 posted on 10/12/2001 9:19:00 AM PDT by AGAviator
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To: AGAviator
It has changed. Count on it.

Why?

34 posted on 10/12/2001 9:29:50 AM PDT by Fzob
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To: AGAviator
It has changed. Count on it.

Why?

35 posted on 10/12/2001 9:31:20 AM PDT by Fzob
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To: AGAviator
History also teaches

We need to give bin Laden a very undignified death, maybe like Hitler's suicide. Stuff pork in his mouth before he dies so they know he's never going to see allah and cannot be a martyr. Just like the Nazis began to deny they ever were one, they too can disown bin Laden.

36 posted on 10/12/2001 9:43:02 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: AlaskaErik
Nah, forget the stairs!!

I say we fence off central Park in New York, then the police when they are bringing him to trial can say that he made a daring escape into Central Park. The Police then say that they are not even gonna try and find him, and then leave. Let the people of New York deal with him, face to face, man to man so to speak. They would tear him to pieces, there wouldn't be enough left to feed pigs with.

I think that since he hurt New York so badly, we allow New York to take care of him and his minions. Shoot, let them all escape into Central Park and allow 25000 citizens, chosen by lottery go in and tear them into pieces... Yeah, barbaric, but never knew a guy who deserved it more!!
37 posted on 10/12/2001 10:15:44 AM PDT by Aric2000
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: Fzob
Why?

We're coming in bombing, without any attempt to get local support before doing it. There is "collateral damage," and there will continue to be.

40 posted on 10/12/2001 1:27:15 PM PDT by AGAviator
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To: veronica
There is a 5 million dollar pricetag on his head. Of course, someone will turn him in.
41 posted on 10/12/2001 2:22:50 PM PDT by wingnuts'nbolts
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To: FITZ
Stuff pork in his mouth before he dies

I've got a much better punishment for bin Laden:

GROSS-OUT ALERT. DON'T READ THIS IF YOU DON'T LIKE GETTING GROSSED OUT...

Capture bin Laden and his 10-year-old son alive. Film this, and everything that follows, to show to his disciples back home:
1. First, force bin Laden to cook large amounts of pork, and then force-feed his son this pork over a period of two days.
2. Next, force bin Laden to kill his own son with a box-cutter to the neck. Before the son dies, someone will explain to him that his dad is a monster and lied to him, and this is all a punishment.
3. Then, bin Laden must string up his son, and drain and drink the blood.
4. Remember that bin Laden is reported to be a vegetarian: He then must carve out his son's stomach and intestines, now plump with pork, fry these organs up and EAT THEM. Tape his mouth shut so he can't vomit it up.
5. Then torture him for a year, allowing only enough healing to ensure he does not die.
BIN LADEN'S LAST 24 HOURS ON EARTH
6. His last meal will be his own unwashed sexual organs, cut off and fed to him raw by women.
7. After this meal, throw him out of an airplane and tape record his screams. But save him with a parachute or bungee cord so he does not die.
8. Lastly, bury bin Laden alive, forcing him to listen to his own tape-recorded screams of pain.

Who said this story won't have a happy ending?

Not being,

42 posted on 10/12/2001 2:41:04 PM PDT by Silly
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To: jwalsh07, LeSabre, AlaskaErik, Joe 6-pack, Poohbah, shaggy eel, damian5, Salvation
Bump for post no. 42, but BE WARNED: There is a gross-out warning for a good reason.
43 posted on 10/12/2001 2:49:11 PM PDT by Silly
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To: all
bump
44 posted on 10/12/2001 2:57:36 PM PDT by Silly
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To: all
bump
45 posted on 10/12/2001 2:57:52 PM PDT by Silly
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To: all
bump
46 posted on 10/12/2001 2:58:11 PM PDT by Silly
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: LeSabre
I was actually worried about that; I hope it is taken in the spirit that is meant. That's one of the reasons I posted the Gross-Out Alert. I don't want anyone at FR to be offended,

If it gets pulled, I will totally understand. But perhaps people won't wig out too much. I tried to come up with something that was slightly doable (unlike giving him a sex-change operation and sending him back to Afghanistan) and would really hurt bin Laden on many levels. I don't know if it's art, but I like it.

48 posted on 10/12/2001 3:17:25 PM PDT by Silly
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To: Silly
Remind me not to p**s you off.
49 posted on 10/12/2001 3:23:31 PM PDT by mlo
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To: Silly
LOL!!! I'd hate to get on your bad side!!
50 posted on 10/12/2001 3:31:21 PM PDT by FITZ
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