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Science Stunned by Virgin of Guadalupe´s Eyes
Zenit News Org ^ | January 14, 2001 | Zenith News Org

Posted on 10/16/2001 10:09:15 PM PDT by topher

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To: topher
Obviously, irony is lost on some people.
51 posted on 10/17/2001 7:10:10 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
Obviously, irony is lost on some people.
52 posted on 10/17/2001 7:10:29 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: RobbyS
Take your anti-Catholic bigotry elsewhere. Or else you explain how it is that this painting exists, on a piece of cheap hemp cloth that should have disintegrated about 500 years ago.
53 posted on 10/17/2001 7:17:04 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan
"Where ignorance is bliss, 'Tis folly to be wise." Gray
54 posted on 10/17/2001 7:32:48 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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Comment #55 Removed by Moderator

Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: allend
When I first started reading this thread, the first thing which came to mind was "time to dig out the tin foil hats!"

After looking at the photos, I realize I was wrong. Wishful thinking is really the worst I can say. People so desperate for something, they find it in nothing. I can only imagine what believers find in the cloud patterns on a daily basis!

57 posted on 10/17/2001 8:17:45 AM PDT by hinj
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To: mercy
And yet you troubled yourself to click the link and then post a reply. Why didn't you just keep scrolling? Loser.
58 posted on 10/17/2001 8:29:52 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter
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To: Arthur McGowan
Or else you explain how it is that this painting exists, on a piece of cheap hemp

Hemp ... when you really want to keep something.

More evidence for ending the War on Hemp/Marijuana!!!!

59 posted on 10/17/2001 8:36:27 AM PDT by That Poppins Woman
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To: allend
Thanks for the link to the pics (#55 above). Are there any others out there that are clearer. The ones on that page, and the accompanying text, present an extremely weak (at best) case for "images" in the eyes. I mean, I could look at the paneling on my wall and see endless images of the Virgin Mary and a pantheon of saints in the woodgrain patterns. But then, is that just my overactive imagination, or what? Or perhaps it helps if we see the miraculous even in the simple things?

:

60 posted on 10/17/2001 8:43:25 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: Arthur McGowan
Relax, I'm on you side.
61 posted on 10/17/2001 10:03:07 AM PDT by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS
You are mistaken, Santiago, St. James, is the patron Saint of Spain.
62 posted on 10/17/2001 10:39:13 AM PDT by Dqban22
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To: ppaul
Bump for later. There were images posted here on FR on a thread about two months ago. I'll go a'looking.
63 posted on 10/17/2001 11:15:05 AM PDT by Wm Bach
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To: Senator Pardek
I actually read an article by a guy who wrote to the Scientific American, asking why they hadn't published anything on the Shroud of Turin. (This was back during the huge investigation of the Shroud in the late Seventies.) The editor wrote back to him: "It is the policy of the Scientific American that the Shroud of Turin does not exist."
64 posted on 10/17/2001 11:43:28 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: Vince Ferrer
Note that the ANGEL has no cross on its brooch, while the Virgin does. I.e., being human, Mary was saved by the sacrifice of the Cross, while Angels, not being human, were not. It's little theological details that contribute to the credibility of an artifact like the Tilma.

The most horrifying thing I have heard is that the face was painted over some centuries ago, because Mary looked too Indian, was "too dark." It would be great if some restorers could be trusted with the job of removing the pale-face paint.

65 posted on 10/17/2001 11:47:26 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan
Padre, padre, padre...You know since you posted this w/o the "sarcasm" tag you going to be flamed like you've never been flamed before. And I include the never-ending thread flames :-)
66 posted on 10/17/2001 12:56:42 PM PDT by conservonator
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To: conservonator
And I include the never-ending thread flames

Oh Please!!! Not the Never-Ending threads!!! Any other torture but that!!!

67 posted on 10/17/2001 1:16:27 PM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: That Poppins Woman
More evidence for ending the War on Hemp/Marijuana!!!!
Oh please!

Become informed on a topic before you spout off and mis-inform everyone! A large part of the longevity of ANY product (paper or hemp) are the chemicals used in processing and the residual compounds left IN the product!

Additionaly, here is a recent work that investigated industrial hemp growing and processing in Minnesota that advocates *caution* before rushing headlong into 'massive hemp farming' -

http://www.cnr.umn.edu/WPS/publications/hemp.pdf

Industrial Hemp (Cannabis sativa L.) as a
Papermaking Raw Material in Minnesota:
Technical, Economic, and Environmental Considerations

by Jim L. Bowyer

Published May 2001

Abstract

One potential source of industrial fiber is agricultural crops, either in the form of residues of food crops or plants grown specifically for fiber. One species that has generated interest as a fiber source is industrial hemp (Cannabis sativa L.). This report focuses on the potential use of industrial hemp as a source of paper making raw material in Minnesota. Environmental implications of commercial scale hemp production are also examined.

...

Summary

Despite promising attributes of industrial hemp, several factors suggest that development of an industrial hemp-based paper industry in Minnesota should not be pursued without very careful consideration.

Factors dictating caution include:

  • Hemp growth rates are markedly lower than kenaf, another agricultural fiber currently being promoted as a papermaking raw material. The relatively slow growth rates of hemp could place Minnesota farmers at a considerable disadvantage to those several hundred miles to the south who could raise fiber crops of kenaf.
  • Hemp crops are highly sensitive to early and late season frosts, a reality that could prevent reliable production of seed that is needed to make hemp production economically attractive to farmers.
  • Although industrial hemp is not likely to be an economically viable source of marijuana, separation of industrial hemp from hemp grown as a narcotic is extremely difficult.
  • Separation of bark and core portions of hemp stalks are thought by many to be necessary for optimum processing of hemp. However, retting, an integral part of the bark/core separation process, is reported to require substantial improvement prior to large-scale use of industrial hemp as a fiber source.
  • Long-term storage of large volumes of hemp would be needed following harvest were hemp to become a principal papermaking fiber.
  • In comparison to industrial fiber productivity in tree plantations, production of hemp fiber would likely result in significantly greater environmental impacts, even if it is assumed that annual hemp yields per acre would be as much as 70 percent greater than yields from poplar plantations.

68 posted on 10/17/2001 2:46:57 PM PDT by _Jim
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To: Arthur McGowan
The Scientific American is like the "Brady" character in "Inherit the Wind":"I do not think about things I... I do not think about."
69 posted on 10/17/2001 2:56:47 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: _Jim
Hey -- I found the passage that gave you such gas ...

Although industrial hemp is not likely to be an economically viable source of marijuana, separation of industrial hemp from hemp grown as a narcotic is extremely difficult.

Bet you and your little BATF buds are sweatin' bullets ... a long-term REAL war will bankrupt your little dinky war on consensual drugs ... and all you bums will have to find real jobs!

70 posted on 10/17/2001 3:11:54 PM PDT by That Poppins Woman
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To: topher
Science stunned by idol !

Cheese .

71 posted on 10/17/2001 3:15:18 PM PDT by AmericanCheeseFood
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To: Arthur McGowan
Well, Arthur, please accept my public apology then. I shall have to look at the previous posts of yours that I found ignorant and/or idiotic to see if irony was lost on me there as well.
72 posted on 10/17/2001 10:25:22 PM PDT by d4now
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To: Don Joe; Senator Pardek
Oh God, he's taking us seriously.
73 posted on 10/17/2001 10:33:16 PM PDT by Storm Orphan
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To: Alberta's Child
"It is said that 90 per cent of all people in Mexico are Catholic, but that 100 per cent believe in the Virgin of Guadalupe."

How many mexicans believe that 'the Virgin of Guadalupe' is/was a demonic manifestation? Certainly there are plenty of Pentecostal, and non-Pentecostal, Bible-believing, followers of the Nazarene Carpentar who do.

74 posted on 10/17/2001 11:32:24 PM PDT by God_isa_Jew
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To: mercy
"You know, I wish I didn't have to se FR crapped up by this idol worshiping dung"

.........get used to it.

This is the time of the rise of the anti-christ and 'the false prophet', the vatican has big plans for King Juan Carlos of Spain, (he has already been named 'King of Jerusalem' by 'the great whore of Revelations')

75 posted on 10/17/2001 11:38:27 PM PDT by God_isa_Jew
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To: topher; All


76 posted on 12/12/2006 10:05:11 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: topher; All
American Catholic’s Saint of the Day

 

December 12, 2006
Our Lady of Guadalupe

The feast in honor of Our Lady of Guadalupe goes back to the sixteenth century. Chronicles of that period tell us the story.

A poor Indian named Cuauhtlatohuac was baptized and given the name Juan Diego. He was a 57-year-old widower and lived in a small village near Mexico City. On Saturday morning, December 9, 1531, he was on his way to a nearby barrio to attend Mass in honor of Our Lady.

He was walking by a hill called Tepeyac when he heard beautiful music like the warbling of birds. A radiant cloud appeared and within it a young Native American maiden dressed like an Aztec princess. The lady spoke to him in his own language and sent him to the bishop of Mexico, a Franciscan named Juan de Zumarraga. The bishop was to build a chapel in the place where the lady appeared.

Eventually the bishop told Juan Diego to have the lady give him a sign. About this same time Juan Diego’s uncle became seriously ill. This led poor Diego to try to avoid the lady. The lady found Diego, nevertheless, assured him that his uncle would recover and provided roses for Juan to carry to the bishop in his cape or tilma.

When Juan Diego opened his tilma in the bishop’s presence, the roses fell to the ground and the bishop sank to his knees. On Juan Diego’s tilma appeared an image of Mary as she had appeared at the hill of Tepeyac. It was December 12, 1531.

Comment:

Mary's appearance to Juan Diego as one of his people is a powerful reminder that Mary and the God who sent her accept all peoples. In the context of the sometimes rude and cruel treatment of the Indians by the Spaniards, the apparition was a rebuke to the Spaniards and an event of vast significance for Native Americans. While a number of them had converted before this incident, they now came in droves. According to a contemporary chronicler, nine million Indians became Catholic in a very short time. In these days when we hear so much about God's preferential option for the poor, Our Lady of Guadalupe cries out to us that God's love for and identification with the poor is an age-old truth that stems from the Gospel itself.

Quote:

Mary to Juan Diego: “My dearest son, I am the eternal Virgin Mary, Mother of the true God, Author of Life, Creator of all and Lord of the Heavens and of the Earth...and it is my desire that a church be built here in this place for me, where, as your most merciful Mother and that of all your people, I may show my loving clemency and the compassion that I bear to the Indians, and to those who love and seek me...” (from an ancient chronicle).


77 posted on 12/12/2006 10:05:29 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Storm Orphan; Senator Pardek; Arthur McGowan
You're a nutcase. I have reams of files and notes to prove it.

This may be the single best example of projection I have ever seen on Free Republic! LOL!
78 posted on 12/12/2006 10:16:16 AM PST by Stone Mountain
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To: God_isa_Jew
This is the time of the rise of the anti-christ and 'the false prophet', the vatican has big plans for King Juan Carlos of Spain, (he has already been named 'King of Jerusalem' by 'the great whore of Revelations')

I assume you've ordered your special edition Christmas Foil Hat to keep out the secret messages being beamed from the The Great Whore of Babylon - the Vatican.

Just where is your proof of the "big plans" that the Vatican has for the King of Spain?

(p.s. - is your real name Lyndon LaRouche?)

79 posted on 12/12/2006 10:22:25 AM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: mercy
You know, I wish I didn't have to se FR crapped up by this idol worshiping dung.

Breathe in, breathe out, move on.

80 posted on 12/12/2006 10:22:41 AM PST by mc5cents (Show me just what Mohammd brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman)
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To: Salvation

Blast from the past ....


81 posted on 12/12/2006 10:27:04 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ppaul

As you can see, the images are as clear as a bell. The third guy from the right even has an Applebee's receipt sticking out of his jacket pocket.

http://home.inreach.com/bstanley/eye.htm

82 posted on 12/12/2006 10:29:20 AM PST by Sloth (The GOP is to DemonRats in politics as Michael Jackson is to Jeffrey Dahmer in babysitting.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Wow, this *is* old.


83 posted on 12/12/2006 10:30:19 AM PST by Sloth (The GOP is to DemonRats in politics as Michael Jackson is to Jeffrey Dahmer in babysitting.)
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To: jude_3
Jesus said: "Do not give what is holy to the unworthy." Jesus said: "Only a good tree can produce good fruit and a bad tree, bad fruit."

Do you have the Chapter and verses for these two statements?

Matthew 7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

Matthew 7:18 "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."

84 posted on 12/12/2006 10:31:35 AM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: Sloth

I don't see a dang thing....

No,
Wait!

Is that Barney on the right?


85 posted on 12/12/2006 10:31:39 AM PST by najida (If it wasn't for fast food, I'd have no food at all.)
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To: najida

Fife, or Dinosaur? Either way, I'm sure it is.


86 posted on 12/12/2006 10:32:51 AM PST by Sloth (The GOP is to DemonRats in politics as Michael Jackson is to Jeffrey Dahmer in babysitting.)
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To: ikka
I have often bashed Catholics due to their elevation of Mary.

Just a point of fact from this Catholic, the Catholic Church did not "elevate" Mary, God the Father did. We just honor her as the mother of God.

87 posted on 12/12/2006 10:33:00 AM PST by mc5cents (Show me just what Mohammd brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman)
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To: Sloth

Thr Applebee's receipt might indicate its a forgery..Experts?


88 posted on 12/12/2006 10:34:45 AM PST by woofie (This area deemed a failure, Something new and witty will no doubt emerge)
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To: topher

Saint Didacus of Alcalá, more familiar as San Diego, was a lay brother of the Order of Friars Minor who died at Alcalá de Henares, Spain, November 12, 1463.


89 posted on 12/12/2006 10:44:34 AM PST by carolinalivin
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To: RobbyS

Saint Didacus of Alcalá, more familiar as San Diego, was a lay brother of the Order of Friars Minor who died at Alcalá de Henares, Spain, November 12, 1463.


90 posted on 12/12/2006 10:45:58 AM PST by carolinalivin
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To: Dqban22

Saint Didacus of Alcalá, more familiar as San Diego, was a lay brother of the Order of Friars Minor who died at Alcalá de Henares, Spain, November 12, 1463.


91 posted on 12/12/2006 10:46:31 AM PST by carolinalivin
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To: topher
"[How] it is possible to explain this image and its consistency in time without colors, on a fabric that has not been treated?" Tonsmann asked. "[How] is it possible that, despite the fact there is no paint, the colors maintain their luminosity and brilliance?"

It's called a miracle from God. Accept it.

92 posted on 12/12/2006 11:00:18 AM PST by Centurion2000 (If the Romans had nukes, Carthage would still be glowing.)
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To: Salvation
LifesiteNews.com has an article about Mel Gibson's new film and the new film Guadalupe that is also out at this time.

Tan Books has a book by Francis Johnston. It is the Wonder of Guadalupe.

This book has about some of the scientific research into the images in the eyes that was done (I think) in the 1970's (if not, it was the 1960's).

A good stocking stuffer for that special someone.

I remember in Atlanta a few years ago I gave a woman recovering from cancer a number of Tan Books. She later joined a religious order.

The Indians of Mexico (natives) painted over the miraculous image to make her look more like the natives. So there is paint pigment on the miraculous image.

Cactus cloth has a tough time lasting 500 years. Also, in the 1920's or 1930's, the Freemasons in Mexico tried to blow up the image but failed. In the new Basilica is about a four foot brass cross that was bent in two by the force of the blast. The glass covering the picture was uncracked.

In the 1920's they did not have bulletproof glass - at least for the image...

93 posted on 12/12/2006 7:37:47 PM PST by topher (Let us return to old-fashioned morality - morality that has stood the test of time...)
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To: God_isa_Jew

"How many mexicans believe that 'the Virgin of Guadalupe' is/was a demonic manifestation?"

Probably some.
Some also probably believe the moon is made out of green cheese.
People can believe the dumbest things, like those two previous things, for example.

And no, God is not a Jew.
God is God.
Jews are people.


94 posted on 12/12/2006 7:45:47 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Aure entuluva.)
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To: Sloth

Perhaops the images are not as clear as a bell, but the eyeball itself is clear as a bell, and disturbingly realistic too. It looks like a sonograph. This is a tiny image on cactus fiber from the early 1500s.

Very strange.
Very, very strange.


95 posted on 12/12/2006 7:48:30 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Aure entuluva.)
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To: mercy

Play nice, now, amigo.


96 posted on 12/12/2006 8:03:28 PM PST by Ciexyz (I highly recommend "Apocalypto" - raves, raves, raves.)
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To: Salvation

ping for your consideration.


97 posted on 12/12/2006 8:04:43 PM PST by Ciexyz (I highly recommend "Apocalypto" - raves, raves, raves.)
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To: topher

I have seen this picture several times. I don't buy this story. This is more of the mysticism of the Roman church!


98 posted on 12/12/2006 8:07:33 PM PST by Doctor Don
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To: Doctor Don
Believe what you want.

The symbolic nature of the picture was such that it made it possible for different tribes/cultures to communicate just by drawing the picture.

The Indians (natives) of Mexico/Central America/South America that employed human sacrifice were able to see the significance of the image by drawing it in the dirt.

It is a scientific fact that this ended the practice of human sacrifice by these peoples.

For example, there was some sort of ball game in Mexico City at the time of Cortez that the winner got to have his heart taken out of him (while it was still beating) as a sacrifice to the gods.

There have been SCIENTIFIC tests about the image sort of like what was done on the Shroud of Turin.

For example, NASA did some tests on the Shroud of Turin and these tests showed that that the Shroud was created by some sort of unknown energy.

The tests referred to in Francis Johnston's book were done by Kodak. The pupil of the eye basically showed the people standing around Saint Juan Diego when he opened his tilma (which was filled with roses).

Call Kodak Corp as the liars, not the Roman Catholic Church. It is the mysticm of the analysis done by Kodak...

99 posted on 12/12/2006 8:46:43 PM PST by topher (Let us return to old-fashioned morality - morality that has stood the test of time...)
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To: topher
[ Science Stunned by Virgin of Guadalupe´s Eyes ]

(Eddie Murphy laugh)...

100 posted on 12/12/2006 9:00:41 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole)
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