It is said that 90 per cent of all people in Mexico are Catholic, but that 100 per cent believe in the Virgin of Guadalupe.
The Virgin of Guadalupe is a remarkable story even in 1531. But it defies scientific explanation today.
How was an image so real put on cactus cloth (a cloak made from cactus fibers) and yet has not decayed in almost 500 years.
The trick of this story is looking in a mirror at the pupils of your eye. You will see the reflection of yourself in your eye.
Yet the pupils of this image shows a scene that is hard to describe. It is even possible to get a clear image of Juan Diego. Who is Juan Diego? He is Saint Diego. And a city in California (in Espanol) is named after him -- for in spanish -- Saint Diego becomes San Diego.
The tilma of the story is the cactus cloth cloth of Juan Diego. A beautiful woman had appeared to him a few times and told him to tell the bishop to build a church on the spot where the woman was appearing to him. The woman, though not a "divine creature", gave him a way to prove to the bishop to get the bishop to build the church. The way was the miracle of the tilma -- special roses the "heavenly lady" told Juan to take to the bishop and show to the bishop. So the bishop is also in the pupil of Juan Diego.
These are images that should be released to the public so we can decide for ourselves.
One other point of this story (not the story above, but of the story of the Virgin of Guadalupe) is that thousands of Indians over hundreds of years touched the image.
Further, the image of Guadalupe sent a message that the Lady is "standing on the god of the Indians of Mexico" and killing that god. Further, the Virgin (Lady) is looking up to a more "powerful" being. She is also pregnant, and dressed in the "Jewish tradition of an expectant mother". This would mean she is the mother of Jesus pregnant with Jesus (carrying Jesus in her womb).
posted on 10/16/2001 10:09:16 PM PDT
I may be wrong about this, but I thought the pattern of stars shown on the Lady's cloak also matched the stars in the sky on the day she appeared to Juan Diego. Is this true?
Since there are no dyes or paint it's like the tilma is a movie screen and the image on it is coming from a film projector.
posted on 10/16/2001 10:20:51 PM PDT
How about a photo?
posted on 10/16/2001 10:26:22 PM PDT
Praying to Mary is pagan and superstitious. Therefore, the Tilma does not exist.
San Diego is also Saint James, the Patron of Spain
posted on 10/16/2001 10:39:04 PM PDT
You know, I wish I didn't have to se FR crapped up by this idol worshiping dung.
posted on 10/16/2001 10:45:22 PM PDT
It is also worth noting that the events described in the original post were a major turning point in the development of Mexico as a Catholic nation. Until 1531, Mexico was clearly divided into classes of wealthy Catholic Spaniards and the poor Indians who were often exploited by the ruling class. The fact that Our Lady of Guadalupe appeared to a poor Indian instead of a wealthy Spaniard caused some monumental soul-searching among the people in the upper class, and the lives of the Mexicans of Indian descent improved almost immediately.
I have often bashed Catholics due to their elevation of Mary. That being said, I am willing to look at the evidence. Are there pictures of the eyes that you can post?
posted on 10/16/2001 11:17:05 PM PDT
What is the non-Catholic scientific community's conclusions about this picture and the images in the eyes? Something reported to be this markedly supernatural should attract interest from many faiths, as well as from agnostics.
...a phenomenon that is known by the word iridescence, a technique that cannot be reproduced with human hands.
Although a great fan of Isaac Newton, who replicated and extensively studied the phenomenon of iridescence (Optics, Book II), I must protest this attempt to elevate him to the status of a divinity.
Science stunned by idol !
To: topher; All
posted on 12/12/2006 10:05:11 AM PST
(†With God all things are possible.†)
To: topher; All
American Catholics Saint of the Day
December 12, 2006
Our Lady of Guadalupe
The feast in honor of Our Lady of Guadalupe goes back to the sixteenth century. Chronicles of that period tell us the story.
A poor Indian named Cuauhtlatohuac was baptized and given the name Juan Diego. He was a 57-year-old widower and lived in a small village near Mexico City. On Saturday morning, December 9, 1531, he was on his way to a nearby barrio to attend Mass in honor of Our Lady.
He was walking by a hill called Tepeyac when he heard beautiful music like the warbling of birds. A radiant cloud appeared and within it a young Native American maiden dressed like an Aztec princess. The lady spoke to him in his own language and sent him to the bishop of Mexico, a Franciscan named Juan de Zumarraga. The bishop was to build a chapel in the place where the lady appeared.
Eventually the bishop told Juan Diego to have the lady give him a sign. About this same time Juan Diegos uncle became seriously ill. This led poor Diego to try to avoid the lady. The lady found Diego, nevertheless, assured him that his uncle would recover and provided roses for Juan to carry to the bishop in his cape or tilma.
When Juan Diego opened his tilma in the bishops presence, the roses fell to the ground and the bishop sank to his knees. On Juan Diegos tilma appeared an image of Mary as she had appeared at the hill of Tepeyac. It was December 12, 1531.
Mary's appearance to Juan Diego as one of his people is a powerful reminder that Mary and the God who sent her accept all peoples. In the context of the sometimes rude and cruel treatment of the Indians by the Spaniards, the apparition was a rebuke to the Spaniards and an event of vast significance for Native Americans. While a number of them had converted before this incident, they now came in droves. According to a contemporary chronicler, nine million Indians became Catholic in a very short time. In these days when we hear so much about God's preferential option for the poor, Our Lady of Guadalupe cries out to us that God's love for and identification with the poor is an age-old truth that stems from the Gospel itself.
Mary to Juan Diego: My dearest son, I am the eternal Virgin Mary, Mother of the true God, Author of Life, Creator of all and Lord of the Heavens and of the Earth...and it is my desire that a church be built here in this place for me, where, as your most merciful Mother and that of all your people, I may show my loving clemency and the compassion that I bear to the Indians, and to those who love and seek me... (from an ancient chronicle).
posted on 12/12/2006 10:05:29 AM PST
(†With God all things are possible.†)
Saint Didacus of Alcalá, more familiar as San Diego, was a lay brother of the Order of Friars Minor who died at Alcalá de Henares, Spain, November 12, 1463.
"[How] it is possible to explain this image and its consistency in time without colors, on a fabric that has not been treated?" Tonsmann asked. "[How] is it possible that, despite the fact there is no paint, the colors maintain their luminosity and brilliance?"
It's called a miracle from God. Accept it.
posted on 12/12/2006 11:00:18 AM PST
(If the Romans had nukes, Carthage would still be glowing.)
ping for your consideration.
posted on 12/12/2006 8:04:43 PM PST
(I highly recommend "Apocalypto" - raves, raves, raves.)
I have seen this picture several times. I don't buy this story. This is more of the mysticism of the Roman church!
[ Science Stunned by Virgin of Guadalupe´s Eyes ]
(Eddie Murphy laugh)...
posted on 12/12/2006 9:00:41 PM PST
(CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole)
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson