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The soft war against masculinity
Washington Times ^ | 10/18/01 | Paul Craig Roberts

Posted on 10/17/2001 11:41:54 PM PDT by kattracks

Edited on 07/12/2004 3:47:54 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

If you are a heterosexual male of any race, tear yourself away from the war on terrorism and let Howard S. Schwartz inform you of your real enemy. His book, "The Revolt of the Primitive: An Inquiry into the Roots of Political Correctness," has just been released by Praeger Publishers in Westport, Conn. The book is a bombshell.


(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 10/17/2001 11:41:54 PM PDT by kattracks
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To: kattracks
It's a rare day when I agree with Mr. Kokie Roberts, but when he's right, he's right.
2 posted on 10/18/2001 12:04:06 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
Maybe we should send the feminists to Afghanistan to straighten the Taliban out.
3 posted on 10/18/2001 12:06:50 AM PDT by jonna
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To: jonna
If you can get them to go, send them. Just don't expect us to let them back in.
4 posted on 10/18/2001 12:08:39 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: kattracks
I've seen sexual harrassment from both sides.

The only difference is that when the men do it, they get in trouble and when the women do it, they get a promotion.

At least that's what I saw.

5 posted on 10/18/2001 12:20:25 AM PDT by Vicki
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To: Vicki
The reason that emotion and "feelings" have been put ahead of rationality is that it is part of the leftist agenda of the OldLiberalDominantMedia. If the media didn't push this stuff, it would be laughed at.
6 posted on 10/18/2001 4:13:51 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: DoughtyOne
Col. Hallums' unabashed manliness, however, was out of step with a feminized military. Female faculty members charged him with sexual harassment and "creating an intimidating environment." One of his offenses was that, returning from exercise, he walked through the department in a sleeveless shirt and exercise shorts. His confidence in, and display of, his masculinity was considered by female faculty members to be an offensive act.

And when Mr. Roberts has less than all the facts, he has less than all the facts.

I worked for this individual during the time he comitted the offenses for which he was RELIEVED. I was also a victim of his offenses...of which I won't detail here, but trust me it was way more than walking through a MILITARY ACADEMIC area in spandex shorts and a tank top, flexing his muscles and making inappropriate comments.

He did create a hostile environment. And it wasn't just women who were ridiculed and harassed. But it also happened during the time we were hearing about X42 and his travails with Monica. So of course it was a witchhunt. This person's behavior, for a Full Colonel, Department Head, Military Officer with over 30 yrs of service was no better than X42's behavior as President was. Period, end of statement.

7 posted on 10/18/2001 4:57:08 AM PDT by Neets
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To: DoughtyOne
It's a rare day when I agree with Mr. Kokie Roberts, but when he's right, he's right.

I think you're confusing Paul Craig Roberts with someone else. He's not married to Cokie. That would be Steve Roberts.

8 posted on 10/18/2001 5:05:10 AM PDT by Bug
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To: kattracks
We may have reached the point, men, where we must employ those weapons of mass destruction which are available to us.

Prepare yourselves by consuming mass quantities of refried beans, pickled eggs and chili...

Go to their meetings...

And Fart.

9 posted on 10/18/2001 5:13:45 AM PDT by DWSUWF
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To: DoughtyOne
Cokie's liberal husband who definitely lacks masculinity is Steve Roberts.
10 posted on 10/18/2001 5:15:06 AM PDT by Arabesque
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To: kattracks
From now on any time I hear any feminist garbage (sorry for the redundancy) being spewed, I will ask, "who was willing to sacrifice their own lives to save others at the World Trade center?" "Who was willing to knowingly bring down a plane to spare others on the ground?"

Answer: Males, and in most cases white males, their favorite whipping boy.

11 posted on 10/18/2001 5:33:48 AM PDT by Fair Paul
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To: OneidaM
One of his offenses was that, returning from exercise

I think the author's point is *nothing* is too petty to be admitted on to the list of offenses against women.

I won't detail here, but trust me

Why?...to both clauses. If you wish to refute Schwartz work, please do so. As it stands, you appear to be equivocating

12 posted on 10/18/2001 5:36:59 AM PDT by Woahhs
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To: DoughtyOne
It's a rare day when I agree with Mr. Kokie Roberts, but when he's right, he's right.

I could be wrong, but I don't think this is the same Roberts.

13 posted on 10/18/2001 5:42:28 AM PDT by FrdmLvr
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To: Fair Paul
Actually, I assumed real feminism was dead the day Gloria Steinem and others admitted (after it had become clear that x42 is a sexual predator) they found him sexy and would jump at the chance to "do" him.
14 posted on 10/18/2001 5:54:55 AM PDT by ncpastor
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To: Woahhs
I am not equivocating sir. I am not in disagreement with Mr. Schwartz. I am merely stating, without opening and refreshing some long ago healed wounds, he picked the wrong case in an attempt to firm up his argument. I'm not sure which one of these two brought up the Hallums case. I'm just letting you know that in this particular instance it was harassment, sexual and otherwise, in it's purest form.
15 posted on 10/18/2001 6:00:45 AM PDT by Neets
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To: Fair Paul
"who was willing to sacrifice their own lives to save others at the World Trade center?" "Who was willing to knowingly bring down a plane to spare others on the ground?"

Answer: Males, and in most cases white males, their favorite whipping boy.

Actually it was male and female though mostly male.

16 posted on 10/18/2001 6:03:36 AM PDT by NEPA
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: kattracks
A rat is a dog is a pig is a feminist.

(With profound apologies to rats, dogs and pigs...)

18 posted on 10/18/2001 6:23:29 AM PDT by martin gibson
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To: Architect
Your politeness shows your class, all of it low.
19 posted on 10/18/2001 6:27:58 AM PDT by Neets
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To: Architect
I think she brought her allegations out in the public just fine. She said she personally experienced this man's behavior, and that it was well beyond what is implied in the excerpt to which she responded.

If that is not good enough for you, don't accept it, or ask her to give more details, but don't go further and insult a long time respected FReeper. The lack of dignity and class you showed there is deplorable.

Frankly, were I a sexually abused woman, I am not sure I would really want to tell the world about the indignities forced upon me.

20 posted on 10/18/2001 6:34:21 AM PDT by Hugh Akston
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To: NEPA
You're right, I was just fired up when I posted my reply.
21 posted on 10/18/2001 6:39:42 AM PDT by Fair Paul
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To: DWSUWF
AND BEER.......LOTS OF BEER!!!!!
22 posted on 10/18/2001 6:42:27 AM PDT by kahoutek
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To: OneidaM
I have no problem with guys who are a.h.s getting slammed hard when they go over the line. My only "requirement" is that they really are going over the line. If this guy was, then he got what he deserved.
23 posted on 10/18/2001 7:16:37 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Arabesque
Yep, you're right. Steve is Kokie's husband, not Paul Craig. Thanks.
24 posted on 10/18/2001 7:17:42 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: ncpastor
Exactly!
25 posted on 10/18/2001 7:18:41 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: kattracks
The feminist-inspired anti-sexual harassment jihad in the military has been the American equivalent of Mao's horribly destructive and wanton Great Cultural Revolution. Feminists have gravely injured the warrior culture.

The vast technological superiority of our weaponry still masks the damage most of the time, but there will be repeated instances such as our recent dithering failure to take out Mullah Omar, the enemy's leader, where the injury to the warrior culture will be made glaringly manifest. As a direct result our men (and women) will die unnecessarily.

26 posted on 10/18/2001 7:21:16 AM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: kahoutek
"...AND BEER.......LOTS OF BEER!!!!!..."

Yes, but...

Only in those cases where an overwhelming, massive, 'first strike' use of force is required can the silent but deadly Beer Fart be justified.

There are limits, sir... even in war.

27 posted on 10/18/2001 7:23:14 AM PDT by DWSUWF
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To: OneidaM
He did create a hostile environment.

You know what? War is a hostile environment. Effective warriors are men (not women--despite the Whoreywood fantasies to the contrary) who are suited to exhibiting controlled aggression and extreme hostility.

If you decapitate the military by booting out its warriors for not being touchy-feely "sensitive" to feminists, gays, lesbians, bestials, and every other category of culture rot, you compromise the lives of the airmen, soldiers, and sailors on the field of battle.

I never thought I would say this, but I have come fully around on the issue: we must get women out of the military NOW. The only exception should be to allow them to serve in strictly support positions and non-combat related roles where they are not brought into more than incidental everyday contact with the fighters and warriors.

28 posted on 10/18/2001 7:36:40 AM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: Hugh Akston
Frankly, were I a sexually abused woman, I am not sure I would really want to tell the world about the indignities forced upon me.

Possibly because they were lies, or because your behavior had invited them, or....

A very classic case of "sexual harrassment" occurred at my workplace. A female hired because of nepotism, who's favorite word was f..., whose favorite rejoinder to a request was f... you, used to run around our facility teasing and flirting with the largely male staff. One day, somebody said something that got her little panties in a wad. So she went to HR and claimed sexual harassment.

She subsequently (about a year later) seduced her "harrasser", got knocked up and broke up his marriage. Obviously she felt severely negatively towards this person, right? Bullpuckey. She was and is a spoiled, heartless brat.

I have zip for faith in vague allegations. It's either facts or opinions. All this "hostile work environment" crap is exactly what the article's author is talking about. Quid pro quo harassment deserves to be punished. But "I'm upset because you make me feel uncomfortable" ? Get another job or shut up.

29 posted on 10/18/2001 7:45:05 AM PDT by jimt
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To: OneidaM
I suppose we'll have to take your word for the harrassment chage Oneida. I'm sure a lot of this was covered in administrative proceedings and I can appreciate the fact that you may not be able to comment in detail.

OTOH you must see how easy it is to come to the conclusion that he was sacrificed on the altar of political correctness and for those of us who only have newspaper accounts to go on it seems that the charges against him were pretty thin.

If you feel like you can fill in any details for us I urge you to do so. If you can't, we'll understand as well.

30 posted on 10/18/2001 7:45:45 AM PDT by 12B
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To: jimt
Possibly because they were lies, or because your behavior had invited them, or....
No, those would not be possibilities in my hypothetical, because I would still be me and I do not do those things.

OneidaM has been here a long time, and has established credibility. Perhaps not in your eyes, but that is fine. You don't have to believe her.

I do.

Those who know her do.

Those who trust our assessment of her do.

And even if the posters originally did not, that does not excuse their lack of manners and civility.

31 posted on 10/18/2001 8:21:33 AM PDT by Hugh Akston
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To: Kevin Curry; OneidaM
we must get women out of the military NOW.

What a load of crap! I served 12 years on active duty and I had no problem at all with the women I served with.

32 posted on 10/18/2001 3:49:17 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: jimt; OneidaM
Possibly because they were lies, or because your behavior had invited them, or....

What an awful thing to say. I am appalled and very angry at such an allegation.

33 posted on 10/18/2001 3:55:29 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: kattracks
The virulent form of feminism attacks male sexuality and has succeeded in criminalizing masculinity itself.

Feminism understands neither real femininity or real masculinity. It would be nice to see someone point out that femininty is also threatened by feminism.

Men need to do a better job at communicating exactly what masculinity is, and how it differs from femininity.

34 posted on 10/18/2001 3:57:30 PM PDT by independentmind
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To: RadioAstronomer
What a load of crap! I served 12 years on active duty and I had no problem at all with the women I served with.

That's the PC line. The truth is otherwise. In and of themselves, the women are not a problem. In and of themselves, the men are not a problem. Mix them together in a war-fighting culture, add the poison of feminism, and you will experience continuous and serious problems. That's exactly what happened throughout the 1990s.

You've bought deeply into the lie. There are still dyed-in-wool Marxists meandering about in Russia, too, who had no problem with communism. I wouldn't credit their PC indignation any more than I credit yours.

Go back to looking for quasars. People problems are beyond your ken.

35 posted on 10/18/2001 4:58:56 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: Fair Paul
i DO BELIEVE THAT WHILE WHITE MEN WERE OVERWHELMING REPRESENTED AS HEROES ON 9/11 (AND RIGHTFULLYSO) THERE WERE WOMEN WHO ALSO PERFORMED ABOVE AND BEYOND. i BELIEVE THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS OF FLIGHT 93 ATTEST TO THAT FACT.
36 posted on 10/18/2001 9:07:49 PM PDT by jonna
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To: Kevin Curry
You've bought deeply into the lie

That is not what I experienced while I was in. And yes I love looking for quasars :)

37 posted on 10/18/2001 9:13:33 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: jonna
i DO BELIEVE THAT WHILE WHITE MEN WERE OVERWHELMING REPRESENTED AS HEROES ON 9/11 (AND RIGHTFULLYSO) THERE WERE WOMEN WHO ALSO PERFORMED ABOVE AND BEYOND. i BELIEVE THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS OF FLIGHT 93 ATTEST TO THAT FACT

OKAY!! Don't yell at us!...and do something about that low self-esteem thing and capitalize your ' I 's.
or just turn off your cap-locks :-}

38 posted on 10/18/2001 9:42:40 PM PDT by disclaimer
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To: OneidaM
I am merely stating, without opening and refreshing some long ago healed wounds,he picked the wrong case in an attempt to firm up his argument.

Apparently these wounds you speak of were not deep enough to restrain you from coming out of your personal tragedy long enough to take another swing at Hallums, and without giving any substantive idea of what engendered such animosity.

I wonder what your assessment of General George Patton would have been? I have no doubt you and others found his behaviour objectionable. What I question is the distinctly feminine notion that people have a right to be comfortable, and the lack of said comfort is an actionable offense when it can be traced to a specific individual.

I find the canard "sometimes words hurt like a fist" to be specious. Fists hurt like fists, and the only way to conflate words and fists is with a breathtaking exercise of petulance and vanity. Thus far, my fourty years of experience with this type of vanity has come exclusively from women.

39 posted on 10/18/2001 11:59:00 PM PDT by Woahhs
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To: OneidaM
You're missing an essential point - the ability of feral femhogs to make general charges - insubstantiated by evidence, not subject to rebuttal and cross-exanination by the accused - and take down a man they don't like. The pernicious idea that "women don't lie about these things" is laughable. Bring out specific charges, and we'll have orderly procedures of adjudication. Anita Hill sought to "strike from cover" in her attacks on Mr. Justice Thomas - when she was forced to be specific, she became a subjrct of humor and well-eservd scorn. If you think you can get away with what you've attempted - general character assassination, no specifics - you've mistaken about where you are. Try again.
40 posted on 10/19/2001 12:13:57 AM PDT by 185JHP
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To: 185JHP; Woahhs
I'm not going to rehash this....you are both making the wrong assumption about me, and maybe you are justified in that I'm not willing to post everything here.

This will be my last post on this however.

..not subject to rebuttal and cross-exanination by the accused - and take down a man they don't like. The pernicious idea that "women don't lie about these things" is laughable.

Hallums had his rubuttal opportunity, all the way up the chain...it was the proper authorities who determined through an extensive investigation and they determined he was no longer fit. He also admitted to some of the things for which he was charged. SO I did not lie. Keep in mind also, there were male soldiers who also had complaints against him, for his abusive leadership tactics...not just sexual harassment.

I wonder what your assessment of General George Patton would have been?

FWIW my assessment of GP is that he was the best General the Army had and we need more Generals like him.

John Wayne is my hero, as well as Ronald Reagan...the Colonel they sent to the department to replace Hallums used to be the military aide to Ronald Reagan during his presidency. This man took over the department, made it well again...and after five years of being the best boss I ever had in my Military and Civilian careers, retired to become the Dean of VMI.

Do I think that some women lie about being sexually or otherwise harassed??? YES

Do I think ALL women lie about it?? NO.

Do I think if you are accused you have the right to rebut and face your accusers?? YES ABSOLUTELY.

41 posted on 10/19/2001 2:24:48 AM PDT by Neets
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To: OneidaM
I read the WSJ article about this - the WSJ has a lot of credibility on this with me. You have none. What happened is, some nasty females ganged up on a guy they didn't like - and because there is a vicious anti-white male attack gang that hasn't been stopped yet - they won. That other men joined the attack means nothing - there are girly-men in lots of places. Are you aware that Coughlin, when shown a photo lineup, identified as someone who "harassed" her, a Marine photographer who wasn't even AT Tailhook?
42 posted on 10/19/2001 5:30:11 PM PDT by 185JHP
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To: 185JHP; Hugh Akston; Dog
I read the WSJ article about this

Would it surprise you to learn that when Tom Ricks did this article, he did not interview ONE single person on the opposing side?-

the WSJ has a lot of credibility on this with me. You have none.

How credible I am with you is a moot issue as far as I am concerned. I've never heard nor read your posts since this thread.

What happened is, some nasty females ganged up on a guy they didn't like - and because there is a vicious anti-white male attack gang that hasn't been stopped yet - they won.

No, that is what you BELIEVE happened. You have NO CLUE what happened, because YOU WEREN'T THERE. But because you READ it in the WSJ journal or because it is mentioned in this article from the WT's its gospel?

That other men joined the attack means nothing - there are girly-men in lots of places.

These so-called Girly-men you seem to know so well, were and are some of the finest soldiers I had/have the privilege of serving with, both in my military and civilian careers. They have my utmost respect and admiration; something I can't say about you.

Are you aware that Coughlin, when shown a photo lineup, identified as someone who "harassed" her, a Marine photographer who wasn't even AT Tailhook?

I remember the face of the person who harassed me,,,I looked at that face for a year and half. I looked at his face when he asked me to have phone sex with him on the intercome. I looked at his face when he "Jokingly" told his wife I was sitting on his lap when she phoned him. I looked at his face when he told me what a wonderful physique he had, and how he could tell I wished I had him. I looked at his face for many days and many weeks and many months. He was there, and so was I and I had NO problem identifying him.

I can't help but wonder if I were your sister/mother/wife/daughter would you still have such a difficult time believing me.

If you felt it was so wrong for the most Disgraced Commander In Chief of the United States Armed Forces to conduct himself in such a disgusting manner, and you believed Monica Lewinsky was so credible,,, why are you having such a difficult time with this one?

43 posted on 10/19/2001 6:03:53 PM PDT by Neets
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To: OneidaM
Your response tells me more about you - you confirmed what I suspected - why you didn't want to say anything specific about your experiences. Your non-response about Coughlin's dishonesty is also quite telling. BTW, glad you're no longer at the Point.
44 posted on 10/19/2001 6:41:10 PM PDT by 185JHP
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To: 185JHP
And YOUR response confirms for me what I suspected...your reading comprehension skills...or lack thereof.
45 posted on 10/19/2001 6:47:53 PM PDT by Neets
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To: 185JHP
Your response tells me more about you

Welcome to Free Republic. OneidaM is well known, and has a reputation. I and several others will vouch for her.

She also makes some valid points to which you are non-responsive. 1. The Col. had due process. 2. Due process, in the military, tends to be comprehensive. (lots of CYA).

Please lay off the personal attacks. Thanks.

/john

46 posted on 10/19/2001 7:07:18 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper
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To: disclaimer
sorry about that. i am a terrible typist and i forgot caps are synonymous with yelling. jonna
47 posted on 10/21/2001 12:18:21 PM PDT by jonna
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