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A PC Nation Cannot Survive Amoungst A World of Aggressors
Vanity | 10-20-01 | S. Fleming

Posted on 10/20/2001 10:12:17 AM PDT by mercy

Perhaps our nations PC attitudes and actions in this time of war are not what they seem. Maybe our top elected officials (right now I'm not willing to call them leaders) have employed a cover designed to fool the outside world and cover our true objectives. It could be that our actual objective is to buy time while we take control of Afghanistan in order to establish massive forward positions and bases for the 'real war' that is so obviously unavoidable. Islamists world wide are plainly taking over nearly all Muslim countries and World War is their plain objective.

If our present actions ARE disinformation and deceit designed to gain time and position for the necessary massive assaults to come ... I applaud them. I am even willing to absorb the consequences to gain the advantage we must have to fight a war against millions, hundreds of millions, of hostile barbarians now assembling against us and presently prosecuting a terror war possibly to include a war of mass distruction. Those consequences include but are not limited to leaving ourselves open to further massive terror attacks on me and my country. Even if the Islamists (let's no longer call them JUST terrorists) do not have real 'suitcase nukes' they DO have 'dirty nukes'. A dirty nuke is just a bunch of plastique wrapped up in plutonium or other nuclear material. Results equal massive radiation poisoning.

I guess that in order to lull the world, most of which either openly or secretly resents, if not hates us, into momentary inaction our nation is not now taking ordinary common sense actions. Actions like deporting all non citizen Middle Eastern visitors post haste. Not only are we not deporting we are not stopping present infiltration of Islamist terrorists. It looks to me like this is deemed necessary 'for now' by those in control of us for these time buying tactics. I guess our elected officials are afraid that any such common sense actions on our part right now would tip our hand in establishing forward bases in Afghanistan.

OK I can live with this. For a very little while. Even though the chances of the Islamist terrorists killing many MORE thousands of us in the near or not so near future are around one hundred percent.

But all of this is just wishful thinking I am pretty near sure.I think the actual reality is that Political Correctness is become the death of us. What IS PC really when practiced in the face of international aggression prosecuted by an organised multi-national coalition of professional killers? It's just plain ole cowardice. That's all it is.

PC used to be just about cultural disagreements and common arguements about philosophy and mores. It had some validity when discussing affirmative action or gay marriage. It has no validity when it assumes the fore in an effort at plain geo-political survival. Geo-political ascendence, or position jockying ....? ok. Politics and diplomacy are all right when you're trying to remain a nation of nice guys and prove it to the world. Though it is a losing game on that level as well.

But now PCness is suicide. A plain and simple death wish. If we and our elected officials have let PCness be our banner now, with the assembled masses of the Islamist killers at our throats, and it is not just a momentary cover, it is DENIAL practiced on a cosmic scale.

I am going to add one more thought that I DO NOT ADVOCATE but is a real possibility. If our ELECTED officials are not willing to perform the FIRST duty of an oganised society ... that is: Do what is plainly necessary to insure a common defense. Then I am sure there are still many members of the military who ARE willing. IF this gets just a little worse and our controllers continue waffling and failing in the face of the enemy ... our very Republic is in danger for the people will not go quietly. The military WILL be turned loose. I just hope they took that oath to the Constitution serriously and will reestablish the Republic after the war.


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How badly do you want to live? How much do you love your country and wish it to go on as it ONCE was? The shining light of the world. The Islamists won't quit you know. They won't quit if we kill half of them and lay waste to half the hostile ME nations. They won't quit and they will escalate to whatever level possible to them.
1 posted on 10/20/2001 10:12:17 AM PDT by mercy
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To: mercy
You need to chill, dude. We're doing all the right things.
2 posted on 10/20/2001 10:15:43 AM PDT by Vinomori
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To: Vinomori
You posted too fast. You didn't read the article.
3 posted on 10/20/2001 10:17:46 AM PDT by mercy
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To: mercy
Yes I think political correctness will have to die before our country can be saved. This is a different kind of war, it's on US soil. Our lives are at extreme risk, 7000 already killed in their workplaces. Our leaders are exposed to anthrax and some have gone off to hide. The PC crowd marches on in peace protests working to help destroy the US with their Muslim allies who they only think are allies but will turn on them too when it's time to impose Sharia on everyone. It's going to be a 3-way war.
4 posted on 10/20/2001 10:25:28 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: Vinomori
PC isn't doing all the right things. PC allows the terrorists to stay in the US and kill us from within. This war is worse than if an Iraq or Saudi military landed on our shores and started shooting, our country is now infiltrated with extreme enemies of America.
5 posted on 10/20/2001 10:27:05 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: FITZ
RIGHT ONNNN!!! Bruthah
6 posted on 10/20/2001 10:27:53 AM PDT by mercy
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To: Vinomori
Right now our military is off in Afghanistan going after bin Laden which might be one of the right things to do, but no one is ridding this country of the people who intend to destroy it, and Americans aren't being told the extent of the problem. After bin Laden is killed, this thing isn't over.
7 posted on 10/20/2001 10:28:49 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: mercy
Political Corectness is a joke and a farce, but it IS still very dangerous. A friend of mine refers to it as the De-balling of America. Personally, I think she's correct.

That being said, I think PC and it's adherents (sp??) are one of the most dangerous forces currently within our nation. Even more so, IMHO, than any terrorist cells that may be present. Terrorists may kill PEOPLE, but PC'ers kill our way of life.

8 posted on 10/20/2001 10:32:52 AM PDT by Chad Fairbanks
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Yes. It kills our very way of life. Succinct. Thanks.
9 posted on 10/20/2001 10:34:53 AM PDT by mercy
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To: mercy
RIGHT ONNNN!!! Bruthah

I Second That!
10 posted on 10/20/2001 10:36:54 AM PDT by Fiddlstix
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To: Chad Fairbanks
I agree.But deporting non-citizen Muslims wont end the problem. There are too many native-born Americans who hate this country too. I'd love to see the town of Berkeley deported also.
11 posted on 10/20/2001 10:39:41 AM PDT by boop
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To: mercy
Muslims, or Islamists as you call them, aren't of one mind more than any other large religion.
How can we generalize the Muslim who prays five times a day, and votes somewhere between John Birch and Barry Goldwater? (P.S. She lives near Phoenix and owns two small businesses.)
12 posted on 10/20/2001 10:40:47 AM PDT by KirklandJunction
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To: boop
I don't recall mentioning anything about deportation... however, now that you bring it up, deporting Berkely WOULD be a good start... ;0)
13 posted on 10/20/2001 10:42:12 AM PDT by Chad Fairbanks
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To: mercy
FYI...
PC Security
Source: INSIGHT magazine; Published: October 19, 2001
Author: J. Michael Waller

14 posted on 10/20/2001 10:44:55 AM PDT by Stand Watch Listen
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To: mercy
I understand your point of view and in a world where we could wave a magic wand and make all dangers (and dangerous people)disappear I would wave that wand.

But, the US is a magical place. And one of the reasons is that its jurisdiction is sanctuary. Anyone on American territory is under the protection of the Constitution. Start to destroy it for some and you may destroy it for all.

I would have no problem with law enforcement systematically examining everyone who may be a danger and taking appropriate action on an individual basis. I would have serious problems with mass actions against a targeted ethnicity even though, admittedly, I am not fond of the group.

15 posted on 10/20/2001 10:47:42 AM PDT by Sabramerican
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To: KirklandJunction
All Muslims are not Islamists. I should think that most Americans would have picked that up by now. Islamist is what the terrs call THEMSELVES. And as to the 'good' Mulims they better start wearing red white a blue or they are just going to be colateral damage.
16 posted on 10/20/2001 10:49:54 AM PDT by mercy
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To: mercy
It's just plain ole cowardice. That's all it is.

The cowardice is not in the people who practice PC, it is in those who are intimitaded by it and who won't stand against. A good example is the Navy's apology for the message written on the bomb to be dropped on OBL. The Navy should have told these faggots that the men fighting this war and putting their lives an the line can say whatever the hell they want to say to the enemy.

17 posted on 10/20/2001 10:50:38 AM PDT by gunshy
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To: Sabramerican
OK. I respect your opinion. A lot. You could be right ... at this moment in time. But what about after the next attack, upon innocent American citizens, or the next? What IF other Islamist nations commit acts of war?
18 posted on 10/20/2001 10:52:53 AM PDT by mercy
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To: boop
There are too many native-born Americans who hate this country too.

The true militias in this country need to rise against the enemies within this country. Cold tar and feathers may teach some of the enemy to change their ways.

19 posted on 10/20/2001 10:56:17 AM PDT by gunshy
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To: gunshy
Gaaaaaasssssp! You used the F word. OK, The OTHER F word. Are you trying to sabotage my campaign? }8^0 ... };-))
20 posted on 10/20/2001 10:56:32 AM PDT by mercy
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To: mercy
If this nations government had over the past 50 years conformed to it's purpose as defined within the Constitution, we would not have the problems that we are not dealing with. Sooner or later, we will figure out that our government is the problem, both internal and external to the nation.

---max

21 posted on 10/20/2001 10:57:11 AM PDT by max61
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To: mercy
I really don't think names, labels, generalizations, colors of clothing, are going to do anything creative nor moral.
On a pragmatic sense, the next wave of bad guys can shave, bleach their hair yellow, wear red/white/blue ribbons on their Brooks Brothers oxford-blue button downs, leave from early Mass and go anywhere and do anything?
Nope, all this paranoia about profiling is just a Made In America blueprint for the future for terrorists.
Personally, I hope all our assault troops look like Gunga Din. The ones that look like John Wayne are targets.
22 posted on 10/20/2001 10:58:58 AM PDT by KirklandJunction
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To: mercy
I don't think the danger is from some individuals who may be in the United States.

I think the danger is that we will stop short in prosecuting the war. Sept 11th, happened on the American mainland but all the attacks of the past 30 years (and I include the oil boycott as an attack) continued because no one was made to pay. Great powers should be both respected and feared. When the US is again feared, we will be safe. If the "war" ends in a cave in Afghanistan, the rest of our enemies will laugh...and the countdown to WWIII will continue.

23 posted on 10/20/2001 10:59:54 AM PDT by Sabramerican
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To: mercy
FYI. You may have read this, but in case you missed it. PC Terrorism
24 posted on 10/20/2001 11:01:33 AM PDT by Rockitz
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To: Sabramerican; mercy
I agree with you completely, Sabramerican.

Knee jerk protective measures which compromise our Constitution is one of the biggest dangers we face in these times, I believe.

We will have saved ourselves ... only to have lost ourselves.

I've a client who is a Muslim ... a dearer man I have yet to meet ... he has steadfastly continued to wear his turbin ... even into East Baltimore ... and pins an America flag on his lapel .... courage ...

As Truman once said ... Freedom isn't cheap .... still, he understands completely the concerns of the many ... so his war is on many fronts ... this is not fair ... but it is so ... and he will have to deal with it.... expecting only those protective measures which the Constitution now allows .... no more and no less ...

Such is how this war will be rightly won ....

25 posted on 10/20/2001 11:03:55 AM PDT by illstillbe
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To: max61
Yes But ... Foundationally WE ARE the gubmint. Admittedly it has gotten out of control .... wholesale, but I think we get the leaders we deserve.

Our 'leaders' have become our controlers. What else can one conclude when they put us up on the block for slaughter?

Caveat: UNLESS, and it's a big shakey unless, it is a play for time and position.

26 posted on 10/20/2001 11:03:59 AM PDT by mercy
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To: mercy
Simple proposals do not necessarily generate simple answers.

There are many who watch from the sidelines, formulate their own ideas and solutions, isolate their thinking from all other possibilities and then go into action with the thought "why can't everyone else see this"? Yet they have no indepth intelligence data, no input from those in places of high authority and responsibility, no actual experience upon which to base their assumptions and proposals.

In my opinion we are at a crossroads in this country. Unfortunately this junction is not a simple "Y" in the road. It is more like a "leaf rake" in the road and we are at the base of the junction. There are many options, no one path will lead to our success in the fight against terrorism.

There is a military road to consider, a domestic one as well... a path for the individual citizen, one for groups of citizens. One might involve the consideration of private enterprise while another addresses that of the media. Many additional options.

I am a firm believer that "all" illegal foreigners be deported ... why single out those from the mid-east! There must be a return to law and order and that requires not only the use of the bully pulpit of the White House but the commitment of every citizen. One of the PC issues that must be done away with is the lack of care and concern for those around us. We can no longer "not want to be involved". Why? Because our freedom loving republic is at stake.

Think about what we can do as individuals, then act accordingly.

How does one eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

27 posted on 10/20/2001 11:04:43 AM PDT by oldngray
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To: boop
Better yet.........let them become a nation. Then spank Em good when they start shooting off their socialist mouths.
28 posted on 10/20/2001 11:05:03 AM PDT by Puck from Michigan
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To: mercy
Laugh at the politically correct. Belittle them subtly. Pretend they must be joking with you when they are not.
29 posted on 10/20/2001 11:06:22 AM PDT by copycat
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To: illstillbe
**** As Truman once said ... Freedom isn't cheap .... still, he understands completely the concerns of the many ... so his war is on many fronts ... this is not fair ... but it is so ... and he will have to deal with it.... expecting only those protective measures which the Constitution now allows .... no more and no less ...****

Much food for thought here. Especially the last five words. Unfortuneately the case has become that certain protected ones get a lot more and America gets a lot less.

30 posted on 10/20/2001 11:07:16 AM PDT by mercy
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To: mercy
Even if the Islamists (let's no longer call them JUST terrorists) do not have real 'suitcase nukes' they DO have 'dirty nukes'. A dirty nuke is just a bunch of plastique wrapped up in plutonium or other nuclear material. Results equal massive radiation poisoning.

I personally believe this is the reason we haven't taken Osama out yet. We know exactly where he is. We are just trying to ascertain through his communications and those of other of his associates where these suitcase nukes are. They may well be right here in our own backyard. If he is about to check out or our boys are knocking on his door, I'm sure he'd give the order to detonate. Right now I'd say this is the only thing keeping him alive.

31 posted on 10/20/2001 11:07:57 AM PDT by Rockitz
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To: copycat
**** Laugh at the politically correct. Belittle them subtly. Pretend they must be joking with you when they are not.****

Good idea. It will be hard to do however if radiation is dropping out of the sky.

32 posted on 10/20/2001 11:08:46 AM PDT by mercy
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To: Sabramerican
Anyone on American territory is under the protection of the Constitution.

This is NOT true. Another lie, propogated by the PC-niks. And as has been pointed out many times, if you tell a lie, it might as well be a BIG lie. And, if told often enough, will become believable... Considering your statement, if an army from Mexico (or any other country) invades the USA, does that mean that they, too, are now under the protection of the Constitution?

Start to destroy it for some and you may destroy it for all.

The Constitution applies to citizens of this country, nobody else.
Illegal aliens do NOT enjoy the protections offered by the Constitution.
To say so, demonstrates how far the lie has spread...

FReeegards,

33 posted on 10/20/2001 11:10:42 AM PDT by Capitalist Eric
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To: Rockitz
I had not thought of this. I have suspected that we have listening and spy capabilities way beyond common knowledge and that we SHOULD know where he is. It's a Mexican standoff. Actually I feel better now. Thanks.
34 posted on 10/20/2001 11:10:59 AM PDT by mercy
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To: mercy
Foundationally WE ARE the gubmint.

Pfft. Since when?, the citizens of this nation no longer hold the reins of the government, corporations and special interest groups do.

Admittedly it has gotten out of control .... wholesale, but I think we get the leaders we deserve.

We, as a nation, get the leaders (if you want to call them leaders) that we are provided to elect. Basically, opposite sides of the same lame coin.

---max

35 posted on 10/20/2001 11:12:06 AM PDT by max61
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To: mercy
Very thought provoking Mercy. I appreciate you flagging me on this. You know as well as I do that not only do we have to fight the enemy overseas, we have to fight the enemy within our borders. In the end, liberals will be the death of us if we don't rid the country of them and their thinking.
36 posted on 10/20/2001 11:12:18 AM PDT by VA Advogado
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To: mercy
I don't agree with you. I don't believe that this is Islam vs. the US. The terrorists have distorted their religion, just as we have seen some cult leaders do with other religions. It's not a matter of being PC, it's a matter of looking at the facts, IMO.

Bin Laden would like nothing better than for this to be turned into an Islam vs. the US war. Our stand has nothing to do with being PC. As far as I am concerned, our war is with the terrorists. Period.

37 posted on 10/20/2001 11:18:17 AM PDT by World'sGoneInsane
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To: oldngray
I liked your post. Many good points. I happend to key in on one thing you said.

****no one path will lead to our success in the fight against terrorism.****

I do not think this is a war against terrorism. Never have. The Islamists are bent on uniting the Moslem world and have made great strides that most if not nearly all Americans are wholly unaware of. The Islamist nation is born and nearly of age. They should be considered a nation. Their terrorism is just assemetrical warfare and this effort of ours MUST be a war on their nation. Not a war against terrorism. That is just too small an objective.

38 posted on 10/20/2001 11:18:43 AM PDT by mercy
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To: mercy
Mega Bump. Those that underestimate the Islamic Enemy from within and without are fools.
39 posted on 10/20/2001 11:19:16 AM PDT by WRhine
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To: Capitalist Eric
Read the author. The piece was about people legally in the United States not illegal aliens.

Illegals are a different issue.

40 posted on 10/20/2001 11:19:55 AM PDT by Sabramerican
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To: World'sGoneInsane
I said 'Islamists'. This is a very important point. Not Islam. ISLAMISTS Please see my #38 below. You are making a DEADLY mistake in your understanding.
41 posted on 10/20/2001 11:21:11 AM PDT by mercy
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To: mercy
I don't know if there is much comfort to be had. Unilateral detonation of one of these suitcase nukes could take down our government. Why do you think Cheney hasn't been in the same county as W in recent weeks? Osama may very well have a gun to our head and the sheeple don't even know it.
42 posted on 10/20/2001 11:21:31 AM PDT by Rockitz
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To: illstillbe
We will have saved ourselves ... only to have lost ourselves.

It depends on what "ourselves" means. The America which is the America of the past decade or so is ended like it or not. Liberal, politically-correct, squishy America is destroyed, it may not realize it yet but that America cannot win this war. If America is to survive, it will be the former version or even something else.

43 posted on 10/20/2001 11:22:58 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: VA Advogado
Thanks. Keep up the good fight.
44 posted on 10/20/2001 11:23:00 AM PDT by mercy
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To: Sabramerican
If the "war" ends in a cave in Afghanistan, the rest of our enemies will laugh...and the countdown to WWIII will continue.

This war may well end in a cave, but it won't be a cave in Afghanistan. We plan to root out every single terrorist hiding in every single cave, rabbit warren, hovel, palace, everywhere and anywhere on this earth. BTW, that includes those terrorists, and their suporters, who live amoung us.

45 posted on 10/20/2001 11:24:28 AM PDT by McGavin999
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To: WRhine; mercy
I wrote and posted this a few weeks back and aimed it squarely at the PC.

In the aftermath of these most recent terrorist strikes, it is becoming increasingly important to identify the enemy. This is what President Bush was referring to when he indicated that we were facing a "different kind of enemy." The enemy is no longer a readily identifiable nation or set of leaders within a nation, but has spread like yeast in dough throughout the world. The enemy includes not only obvious groups of individuals, but various wrong ideas that are being exalted as ideals by "friend" and foe alike. Here's my cut at the enemies we face with regard to terrorism.

Enemies who are people:

1) Those that would engage in violence against our country and people, i.e. terrorists.
2) Those that would aid and abet those who would engage in violence against our country and people, i.e. foreign governments, wealthy idealists, family and friends of terrorists.
3) Those that would export weapons and other technologies that can be used to generate violence or support those who propagate violence against our country or people, i.e. businessmen.
4) Those that would make it easier through regulation or lack of enforcement to export weapons and other technologies that can be used to generate violence or support those who propagate violence against our country or people, i.e. business, government, security, and law enforcement agencies.
5) Those that would seek or promote diplomatic agreements for the sake of diplomacy without achieving true security for our people, i.e. various leaders or organizations both internal and external to our country including those in government, business, religion, media, etc.
6) Those that would seek or promote a judicial solution for the sake of political correctness without reasonable expectation of obtaining true justice or future security for our people, i.e. various leaders or organizations both internal and external to our country including those in government, business, religion, media, etc.
7) Those that would seek or promote peace at any cost, i.e. various leaders or organizations both internal and external to our country including those in government, business, religion, media, etc.
8) Those leaders who are not willing to accept the possibility for civilian or military casualties to exact justice on our enemies, i.e. various leaders or organizations both internal and external to our country including those in government, business, religion, media, etc.
9) Those leaders who are not willing to temporarily sacrifice some personal freedoms, rights, conveniences, or sacrifice individual people for the increased security of all, i.e. various leaders or organizations both internal and external to our country including those in government, business, religion, media, etc.

Ideological Enemies:

1) Radical Islam or any other faith or cause that promotes holy war or jihad against the US.
2) There is a judicial solution for every crime.
3) Tolerance is more important than truth.
4) All nations or people groups will play fair if given a chance.
5) All nations or people groups are capable of governing themselves.
6) The US must never occupy a country even though the indigenous people have demonstrated that they cannot govern those within their borders.
7) Innocent people must never be killed by the US military.
8) Nothing more than a measured response can be initiated against our enemies.
9) Preemptive strikes on our enemies are not appropriate.
10) The people have the right to know everything that we are doing militarily at any time.
11) The government cannot sacrifice any individuals or any individual rights for the security of the nation. (This is the scary one and hopefully only temporary)

The freedom we now enjoy hangs in the balance if we are not able to respond appropriately to these enemies. This grand experiment as an open society is going to be severely tested by these events and our response to them. God bless all of our leaders with the wisdom and discernment necessary to deal with the current crisis through thoughtful decisions. The ramifications of their decisions will be felt throughout the remainder of history.

46 posted on 10/20/2001 11:25:45 AM PDT by Rockitz
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To: FITZ
**** Liberal, politically-correct, squishy America is destroyed,****

I go back and forth on this. Yes, on the surface, it would seem so. But the greater, monumentally so, evil of geo-political PC seems more entrenched than ever. Indeed not only is it entrenched it seems supreme.

47 posted on 10/20/2001 11:25:49 AM PDT by mercy
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To: FITZ
After bin Laden is killed, this thing isn't over.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the next large scale terrorist attack is planned for the day it is announced bin Laden is dead.

48 posted on 10/20/2001 11:27:11 AM PDT by WRhine
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To: mercy
Islamist: The religious faith, principles, or cause of Islam.

This is the definition as I understand it. I am not making a mistake. I understand, I just don't agree with you.

49 posted on 10/20/2001 11:27:37 AM PDT by World'sGoneInsane
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To: mercy
Yes they are still out there spouting their rhetoric. But if this nation is conquered, their rule is ended, if this nation will be saved, their rule is ended. They don't realize it ---and maybe some of us don't either but it's all over for them one way or another. What will save America now won't be them.
50 posted on 10/20/2001 11:28:27 AM PDT by FITZ
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