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500,000 dead Iraqi babies -- Propaganda??? Help refuting...
My Head | 10/22/01 | An American Soldier

Posted on 10/21/2001 9:26:03 PM PDT by American Soldier

I keep hearing about the U.S. having committed genocide against Iraqis by killing half a million with our sanctions. I am pretty sure this is not correct as I know off hand that Saddam has imported enough for palace construction to feed that nation for a decade, but can someone point me to specific sources to refute these accusations? I'm having a heck of a time with this one...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
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1 posted on 10/21/2001 9:26:03 PM PDT by American Soldier
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To: American Soldier
Simple reason is good enough. Obviously, the Iraqis would include every baby that has died from 1991 to the present. Naturally, because Iraq is a Third World country with an evil, militaristic dictator, the large majority of those deaths would have happened whether or not there were sanctions.
2 posted on 10/21/2001 9:43:31 PM PDT by Heisenburger
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To: American Soldier
Iraq is free to sell oil for humanitarian goods - they have enough to take care of every young biped.

This lie has been parroted too many times by the FR "The U.S. needs to look inward" crowd.

3 posted on 10/21/2001 9:48:04 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: American Soldier
As far as specific sources, look at the Iraqi oil revenue, and look at Iraqi defense and infrastructure investments. Of course they aren't as free with their info as we are, but to the extent you can identify these numbers you can see if they have any arguments.

The classic argument is "they've had plenty of money, but they've not spent it on their own populations: they're especially happy to let starve those who ever resisted the regime." I heard they went through 25 Billion dollars, I don't know in what time period.

I'll surf around for some specific sources.

4 posted on 10/21/2001 9:48:56 PM PDT by EaglesUpForever
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To: American Soldier
I know one of their arguments is that Chlorine, a very useful ingredient for chemical weapons is restricted, which prevents Iraq from treating its water supply. If Saddam had a choice between Chemical weapons and treating the water which do you think he would choose?
5 posted on 10/21/2001 9:55:51 PM PDT by Free the USA
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To: American Soldier
HERE is a good argument for sanctions.
6 posted on 10/21/2001 9:56:48 PM PDT by EaglesUpForever
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To: American Soldier
Saddam cared more about his programs to develop nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons then he did about feeding his own people.

As he was building these weapons programs he didn't adhere to inspections and drew sanctions.

Saddam's goal-a nuclear weapon to use on Israel, not feeding hs own people. Result, people starve. If Saddam wants to blame someone he should look in the mirror.

7 posted on 10/21/2001 10:01:15 PM PDT by Freedom of Speech Wins
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To: American Soldier
Last I heard Iraque has a booming economy. new building starts are at an all time high. It is Saddam who is witholding medical attention from his people. He has also used chemical weapons on his citizens. I really don't think dead babies can be blamed on us. Cultivating hate for America keeps him in power.
9 posted on 10/21/2001 10:07:20 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: American Soldier
Why don't we hear about the parents of these children? Did they starve first? Or did they eat the food and let their children starve. What a crock.
10 posted on 10/21/2001 10:13:01 PM PDT by Octar
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To: Campion Moore Boru
It began in '96? Then perhaps you will go around stomping out the lie on FR that 4,000 young bipeds a month still die in Iraq.

This was all contigent on their following the terms of their surrender, which included no stopping our inspection teams. They violated the terms, of course.

If we had any guts, we would rescind our "agreement".

Nothing warms my heart more more than a 10 lbs. future terrorist/enemy of America starving to death.

11 posted on 10/21/2001 10:13:59 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: Campion Moore Boru
They will grow to be enemies of America, ergo - it is in our best interest to "stunt" that growth.

I'm assuming you care about the future of America, of course.

13 posted on 10/21/2001 10:21:25 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: American Soldier
Don't think so. Did we promote abortion over there?
17 posted on 10/21/2001 10:28:39 PM PDT by A CA Guy
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To: Bruce Leroy
"Very simple....under our sanctions Iraq no longer has money for food and medicine...only tanks and guns...Saddam is playing the international community like a violin."

What ya wanna bet that Saddam was forcing his people to do without even before there were sanctions? The international community wants to be played like a violin.

18 posted on 10/21/2001 10:30:30 PM PDT by Let's Roll
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To: Either/Or
You must work in media relations for Planned Parenthood.

And you must work in media relations for 0.1 percenters. At least you are not a hypocrite like Buchanan, who proudly endorsed Bush Senior after the Gulf War and his "New World Order" remark.

19 posted on 10/21/2001 10:32:52 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: Campion Moore Boru
... but your statement that the intentional starving of innocent toddlers...

LOL - your "take" on this situation reveals too much!

22 posted on 10/21/2001 10:45:48 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: Either/Or
...but can you imagine if the same comment was made regarding practically any other ethnic/racial group?

You've got a point.

...the fighting would be done by kids with names like McAllister, Murphy, Gonzales and Leroy Brown... - Pat Buchanan

"Leroy Brown"???? LOL - I guess I should be more racially sensitive.

25 posted on 10/21/2001 11:13:27 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: American Soldier
Here's a thought - instead of refuting them, especially in front of others, agree with them, but take their arguments to the extreme.

For example - Not only are we killing 50,000 babies with our sanctions, but I firmly believe that our national hostility toward Iraq sends out a negative energy into the world that is probably responsible for causing the frustration of Iraqi parents and other adults, causing them to model our hostility by beating, starving and ultimately killing their own children. This probably leads to the death of another 5,000 Iraqi infants per year, and is ultimately our fault, because of the poor example we set because of our irrational fear and hatred or their leader.

And try to say it with a straight face. I'm willing to bet at least half your liberal audience, who doesn't know you better, will take you seriously and finds themself agreeing with you. As for the rest, I'm hoping some would find this ridiculous, and would be repulsed by the fact that some liberals agree with you.
26 posted on 10/21/2001 11:27:24 PM PDT by zencycler
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To: Campion Moore Boru
How would you characterize the US State Dept.'s feelings based on this exchange?:

Hard to say - Albright wasn't Secretary of State at the time of that interview, and thus couldn't have been speaking for the State Department...
27 posted on 10/21/2001 11:31:38 PM PDT by general_re
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To: American Soldier
saddam is evil for allowing children to starve. now, if they were poor, and they starved due to poverty or the world economy, thats not evil. thats the triumph of capitalism delivering cheap goods -- including lives.
28 posted on 10/21/2001 11:36:09 PM PDT by gfactor
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To: American Soldier
If any Iraqi babies are dying they are likely Shi'ite or Kurd. Saddam leads the Sunni faction and cares not a whit if the others die. His trusted Republican Guard is Sunni.
29 posted on 10/21/2001 11:45:44 PM PDT by JJ59
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To: American Soldier
There was an open highway from Jordan to Iraq with daily truck convoys bringing in whatever the Iraqi government wanted to buy. Instead of bring in food and medicine for the Iraqi people, they bought military equipment and expensive building materials to build more palaces in the desert for Saddam. This included huge amounts of Italian marble and Morrocan tile.

Saddam kept his people starving and dying by design. The reasons are clear enough. First, people who are occupied from day to day with simply keeping themselves and their families alive have little energy left for protest and revolution. Second, Saddam could play the strutting 'Great Leader', fighting against the evil infidel foreigners to defend Iraq. This made for great internal propaganda, and strengthened his position of power. Third, he could posture as a victim of American imperialism, winning him support in both the Moslem world, and even a degree of sympathy with western liberal idiots and the western press.

Saddam is a brilliant strategist when in comes to the machinations of power within Iraq, in exploiting Moslem suspicion of the west, and sometimes does pretty well in manipulating world public opinion as well. Fortunately, as a general, he's a dunce.

30 posted on 10/22/2001 12:17:49 AM PDT by Vigilant1
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To: Campion Moore Boru

As Tom Quick, "Avenger of the Delaware" once said, "From nits come lice".


31 posted on 10/22/2001 12:44:19 AM PDT by Mogger
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To: Senator Pardek
Tell me what is the difference between you and that Princeton Prof. that advocates test drives on young 'uns ? You really must take back your comments on this thread with even a nanosecond of second thought. I don't often agree with you but I always thought you were a person of goodwill. What you've said goes beyond barbarism.
34 posted on 10/26/2001 7:13:36 AM PDT by major-pelham
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To: Willie Green
WG - Do you remember the articles that were posted about how they couldn't even import chlorine into Iraq to sterilize needles lest it be used to make gas, etc. ?
35 posted on 10/26/2001 7:16:06 AM PDT by major-pelham
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To: American Soldier
Why on earth do you want to try to refute the fact that sanctions--the preferred method of waging war by the "Third Way" Marxists who control the political bureaucracy in the West--kill the weakest members of the targeted society? Why are conservatives always carrying water for leftists who hate their guts? I do not understand that particular neurosis.

Maddie-The-Mad-Bomber Albright admitted to Lesley Stahl on "60 Minutes" that such a death toll was "worth it". Of cousre she was trying to prove that she was a woman "with balls", but what kind of society wants to produce women like that? A materialist, left oriented, corporate, globalist society--that's who!!

Sanctions are also the ultimate "Pontius Pilate" solution. Lefites can bully the people living in the land of the Hitler du jour, while primly claiming the high humanitarian ground because--"Look ma! No blood on my hands!"

In the same way, these grotesque Left Wing humanitarian warriors love high-altitude bombing. They loved targeting Serb civilians and civilian infrastructure precisely because the Serbs did not have the technological power to shoot back and, of course, the blood from the people on the ground could not splash high enough to soil the hands of our video warriors.

You've got to take the Larger View of this subject and start to realize that we conservatives MUST stop defending--and dying for--the methods of the Left Ruling Elite--in all their manifestations, not just warmaking--because they are all related at their root. Stop being a useful idiot.

YOU"RE NEXT---you see?

36 posted on 10/26/2001 7:32:15 AM PDT by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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To: major-pelham
WG - Do you remember the articles that were posted about how they couldn't even import chlorine into Iraq to sterilize needles lest it be used to make gas, etc. ?

Yeah.. But not as well as the articles that documented the high-tech equipment we sold to China.

We are cursed with a corrupt, hypocritical and traitorous "leadership."

37 posted on 10/26/2001 10:00:03 AM PDT by Willie Green
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
That was a nice catch about Mad Maddie saying they were worth it, I'd forgotten but then instantly recalled it when you wrote of it above.
38 posted on 10/26/2001 9:00:23 PM PDT by major-pelham
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