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The Spooky Factor And Teleportation
Toogood Reports ^ | October 23, 2001 | Beth Goodtree

Posted on 10/23/2001 5:15:41 PM PDT by Starmaker

A few weeks ago we just got one big step closer to having quantum computers and teleportation. This is because atoms have an almost ‘psychic´ ability that Einstein once termed spooky. It seems that distant atoms are almost ‘telepathically´ linked to each other in what scientists call entanglement. Plainly put, it means that a group of atoms ‘over here´ knows what a group of atoms ‘over there´ are doing. This is one of the properties of atoms described by of a branch of science called Quantum Theory.

The word ‘quantum´ means a discrete or separate unit of energy, and Quantum Theory tries to explain the properties of these basic units of nature. When people think of atoms, they usually envision solid, separate balls of matter like a group of billiard balls. However, according to Quantum Theory, atoms are much less tangible, with properties that can only be described (right now) as spooky.

One of the first weird things we learned about quantum particles was that we could know where a particle was, or when a particle was, but we could never know both at the same time. Because it reminds me of the socks I always lose in the wash, I call it "Beth´s Principle of Lost Socks and Quantum Particles." (I would know when I had a full pair of socks, or where that full pair had been, but do the laundry and the full pair would be gone.) In fancy terms, we´d say we knew a particle´s location or it´s velocity, but not both. This discovery is called the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, and understanding it is critical to understanding the possibilities inherent in Quantum Theory.

Quantum particles such as atoms or photons can exist in distinct states, like the head or tail of a coin. But these same particles can also exist in both states at once (known formally as superposition). This is comparable to a coin spinning in the air before it lands.

Now let´s suppose we toss two coins at once. Whichever way one coin lands has no bearing on how the other coin lands. Because of this, we say their outcomes are independent -- if one coin lands heads up, it will not effect the way the other coin lands. However, two entangled quantum particles are not like coins. The fate of one effects the fate of the other. For instance, if one entangled quantum particle is in a 'heads' state, the other must be in a 'tails' state. We say that they are interdependent. And this interdependence is the whole key to teleportation.

For any practical applications, entanglement has to embrace thousands, or even millions, of particles, and maintaining total entanglement is very difficult. However, the scientists have found a way around this problem.

They do without complete entanglement, where the state of each particle depends on the state of every other particle. Instead, they generate two loosely entangled clouds of cesium gas, one with slightly more atoms in a 'heads' state and the other with slightly more in a 'tails' state. (These two states are actually defined by the directions of the atoms' magnetic fields.) By doing it this way, many more atoms can be entangled, and stay that way for a longer period of time.

So how does this translate into teleportation? Well, it does and it doesn´t. But the final effect is the same as teleportation. One set of quantum particles can be instantaneously reproduced somewhere else. So unlike Star Trek, objects are not broken down and their particles ‘beamed´ somewhere. Instead, they are reproduced somewhere. In this way a message encoded in photons of light could be transmitted from one place to another without sending the photons across the intervening space, effectively bypassing the speed-of-light barrier.

Up until now, the maximum amount of particles that scientists could entangle were a measly four atoms. This most recent experiment entangled about a million atoms, bringing us much closer to the realization of teleportation, quantum computers, and a new form of instant communication over vast distances.


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1 posted on 10/23/2001 5:15:41 PM PDT by Starmaker
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To: Starmaker
My head hurts.
2 posted on 10/23/2001 5:20:21 PM PDT by Gadsden1st
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To: Starmaker
Strange article. It reads more like astrology than physics.
3 posted on 10/23/2001 5:22:28 PM PDT by martian_22
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To: Starmaker
This would be perfect, locate Osama energize him and then scatter his atoms though out the universe. No fuss, no mess, no Osama.
4 posted on 10/23/2001 5:23:48 PM PDT by Free the USA
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To: Starmaker
"Plainly put, it means that a group of atoms ‘over here´ knows what a group of atoms ‘over there´ are doing.

Reminds me of the street where I grew up.

5 posted on 10/23/2001 5:26:09 PM PDT by GreenHornet
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To: Starmaker
W.T.F
6 posted on 10/23/2001 5:27:22 PM PDT by damnlimey
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To: Free the USA
Wouldn't that make him bin ladin the saint..heads here ..tails there..
7 posted on 10/23/2001 5:28:05 PM PDT by Gadsden1st
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: Starmaker
It was nice to see this again, and in print. You explain it very clearly.

It is cool and spooky at the same time.

9 posted on 10/23/2001 5:29:13 PM PDT by Montfort
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To: Free the USA
Naw, just beam him up to a point 25,000 meters directly above his present location, let gravity do the rest.
10 posted on 10/23/2001 5:33:21 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Starmaker
"For instance, if one entangled quantum particle is in a 'heads' state, the other must be in a 'tails' state. "

Could this explain the current geopolitical status???

Dubya (heads-up)good affects Osama bin Laden heads (heads-down)bad????

Quantum Physics of Politics?

NeverGore

11 posted on 10/23/2001 5:56:59 PM PDT by nevergore
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To: Unalienable
This is a slightly bollocky article, just because it seems to imply a new discovery. Quantum entanglement and devices that can create more than four entangled particles have been around for a long time - it's not actually clear from this article what is new (maybe using cesium in large quantity?).

The effect can't be used to transmit information through the actual entanglement, but the particles can be shared between two locations, then the information of one of them can be measured and transmitted at normal speeds to the other location, where they will discover that their particle has a corresponding (usually opposite) measurement. It's a bit like destructive testing though - you can't find out anything about the particles without breaking the entanglement - thus no info can be transmitted at faster than light speed. I seem to remember that this effect has some obscure use for checking if a fibre optic cable is being eavesdropped upon etc, (oops - as mentioned in the article). I think the coin toss metaphor is one of the better ways I’ve heard of explaining this effect so far.

12 posted on 10/23/2001 6:03:32 PM PDT by New Zealander
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To: Starmaker
LOL - What #6 said! It wobbles the mind...

One set of quantum particles can be instantaneously reproduced somewhere else. So unlike Star Trek, objects are not broken down and their particles ‘beamed´ somewhere. Instead, they are reproduced somewhere.

So, instead of sending the original particles somewhere else, a copy of these particles are "assembled" at the new location — But, from what? Wouldn't some form of particles already have to be present at the new location in order to serve as the "raw material" for the reproduction, or are we literally making particles out of nothing?

13 posted on 10/23/2001 6:29:02 PM PDT by Skibane
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To: Unalienable
Because of the nature of entanglement, there is no time lapse for the group of atoms 'over there' to know what the group of atoms 'over here' is doing. We still haven't figured out how they know, but they do. There is apparently no transmission of a message, therefore, no time lapse because of distance. Ergo, the limitations of the speed of light are bypassed.
14 posted on 10/23/2001 6:44:59 PM PDT by Feisty1
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To: Starmaker
Just wait till the great day dawns when any human anywhere can teleport anything anywhere, even from Iraq or China straight into the Mall of America. Boy I'll feel good when science figures that one out. Sometimes I feel like the luddites had a point.
15 posted on 10/23/2001 6:49:06 PM PDT by Arkinsaw
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To: New Zealander
I found the original article on the New Scientist website, and, according to it, you are wrong. Entanglement of more than 4 particles has never before been achieved, let alone a milion particles. Also, this is a whole new approach to entanglement because it was only done as partial entanglement.
16 posted on 10/23/2001 6:50:23 PM PDT by Feisty1
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To: Feisty1
This is certainly not my area but I do like following somewhat as an observer (probably like many of you). My guess is that what we perceive as 'distance' is in fact wrong and that the speed of light constant is held. Space is somehow warped in such a way that the particles are actually joined but we perceive them as separate. Just a thought...
17 posted on 10/23/2001 6:52:49 PM PDT by wireplay
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To: Unalienable
What do you mean "bypassing the speed-of-light" barrier? Are you implying that while we cannot send matter fast than light, we can send information faster than light?

To the best of my understanding, that's simply not the case--and if it were the case, a number of paradoxes could be created, such as "sending information into the past" and other such paradoxes in simultaneity.

Of course, every few months one encounters another "scientists break the speed of light barrier" story in the press, but then again, you also find the occasional "perpetual motion machine invented" headline as well. I've never placed stock in such articles. I am trying to figure out, is this such an article?

There's alot of things I don't know, but I do know some quantum physics, and what the author of the article saying is indeed true. Einstein was right to call it spooky, because it is.

Take an entangled pair, break it apart and drag one way over to the other side of the universe. You can alter the state of one particle and *instantly*, the other particle will reverse it's state as well. Creepy? Yeah. Of course, there's the question of how practical it is. I mentioned this very same principle to some friends probably 10 years ago and they thought I was full of it. Glad to know that word is getting out.

Personally, quantum physics bothers me in many ways because it seems to, in some ways, contradict certain laws. Such as, quantum mechanics allows for something to be in two places at once. Urgh. And faster than light "information" flow. Urgh.

At any rate, "traditional" physics has it's inviolate laws, and quantum theory does in fact encompass them, but models things in a different way. Spend a couple years studying it and maybe it'll make sense... Lord knows it doesn't make absolute sense to me either, but at least I apprehend it, even if I don't comprehend it.

18 posted on 10/23/2001 6:54:29 PM PDT by MPB
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To: Starmaker
spooky bttt...
19 posted on 10/23/2001 7:12:17 PM PDT by MadameAxe
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To: Starmaker
Experimental Long Lived Entanglement of Two Macroscopic Objects
20 posted on 10/23/2001 7:23:14 PM PDT by Redneck Apologist
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To: Unalienable
Entanglement is constant. Whether its a distance across a microscope lens, a galaxy or across the Universe. If one particle or atom of a pair is positive the other entangled particle or atom is negative. Flip the position of one atom and its entangled mate flips simultaneously. The far away atom's change to an opposite spin is information. String a few atom-pairs together and information leads to computing that leads to controlling objects at a distance in real time.
21 posted on 10/23/2001 7:43:41 PM PDT by Zon
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To: Free the USA
This would be perfect, locate Osama energize him and then scatter his atoms though out the universe. No fuss, no mess, no Osama.

Nah. Been there, done that startrek-wise. Some badasss took over somebody and they managed to hit him with an armful of happy juice. Before he could wake they thransported him to a million cubic miles of space. He was dead, OK, but for OBL we need something better. How about transporting him to the surface of the sun. There is a popular song about this that we could play for him while he is in transit.

22 posted on 10/23/2001 8:11:38 PM PDT by det dweller too
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To: Skibane
That presents several great options. I could vacation while still working at the office. I could work in the office while following the Clintons around protesting forever. And as for x42, he could be at home with his wife (yeah, right) while still globetrotting in search of the perfect hummer.
23 posted on 10/23/2001 8:17:29 PM PDT by Sgt_Schultze
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To: MadameAxe; backhoe
Reminds me of a novel that came from a short by Philip K. Dick called .

BTW if your husband can find me the originals which were published in 1966 by Ace Books or in 1983 by Berkeley Books I'd pay him well for his efforts.

24 posted on 10/23/2001 8:28:02 PM PDT by nunya bidness
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To: Zon
"Entanglement is constant. Whether its a distance across a microscope lens, a galaxy or across the Universe."

Until someone is able to prove that entanglement is constant from one end of the universe to the other, it is still just a theory.
Though I do agree with you, you cannot speak in absolutes...yet.

25 posted on 10/23/2001 8:29:51 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: Sgt_Schultze
"That presents several great options. I could vacation while still working at the office."

"Hello? Megadodo Publications. May I help you? Uh..yeah, Mr. Zarniwhoop IS in his office, but he's on an inter-galactic cruise and can't be bothered."

26 posted on 10/23/2001 8:32:58 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: Unalienable
Are you implying that while we cannot send matter fast than light, we can send information faster than light?

There is no implication. Information can be sent across the galaxy in an instant once the sender and the receiver are properly entangled matter. It's not an implication, it is a direct conclusion.

27 posted on 10/23/2001 8:37:54 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: Starmaker
MY Spooky:


28 posted on 10/23/2001 8:38:27 PM PDT by lawgirl
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To: lawgirl
No matter where I stand in the room his eyes are staring at me. Make him stop!
29 posted on 10/23/2001 8:41:31 PM PDT by nunya bidness
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30 posted on 10/23/2001 8:55:17 PM PDT by KneelBeforeZod
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To: wireplay
Gravity seems to propagate faster than light, perhaps instantaneously. The center of attraction for Earth in the solar system leads the apparent (visual) position of the Sun. Perhaps quantum states are coupled in a similar field.
31 posted on 10/23/2001 8:56:43 PM PDT by GregoryFul
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To: Unalienable
"Are you implying that while we cannot send matter fast than light"

Not only can we send info faster than the speed of light, we do send info faster than the speed of light. Electonics, when you push an electron in one end of a wire, institaneously one comes out the other end. The reason why in reality we don't have it faster is processing time. If we were to stretch a wire out to the far reaches of space, and had a power source to overcome the resistance of the wire, and hopefully minimize interference from radiation, we can send it far enough to process the info faster than the speed of light.

Cool picture of betas going faster than speed of light (in water).

32 posted on 10/23/2001 8:57:23 PM PDT by In veno, veritas
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To: RightWhale
The article that Redneck Apologist pointed to suggests that:

1. They are using a light beam to cause the two cesium clouds to become and remain entangled. They even go on about the limitations of how far they can separate the entangled clouds based on limitations of light guiding technology.

2. That all they are measuring is the sum of a quantum effect of each cloud. They claim the cloud was easier to work with than single atoms.

Thus it seems that although this research is groundbreaking in certain ways, it still doesn't mean that we can send detailed messages to a future Mars base instantaneously.

To keep the clouds entangled when one is sitting on a laboratory bench in Houston and the other is being buffeted about in a rocket headed for Mars will be a major trick. Also, to somehow "disentangle" the atoms within a cloud to measure all the "bits" of information without disturbing them will also require some work.

33 posted on 10/23/2001 9:01:50 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: In veno, veritas
Electonics, when you push an electron in one end of a wire, instantaneously one comes out the other end.

Your statement seems wrong according to what I learned in physics. The electrons in a wire move physically down the length of the wire at a specific speed that is quite a bit less than light speed. However, as each electron affects adjacent electrons down the wire, the WAVE that results moves at the speed of light. Therefore the electron at the other end moves out of the wire at the physical speed of electrons, and that movement starts after a delay correspnding to the time it would take for light to move the length of the wire. Unlike what you said, I think that there is NOT instantaneous transmission down the wire.

35 posted on 10/23/2001 9:36:07 PM PDT by Weirdad
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To: Starmaker
great post.....I know the theory.....well put. Other spooky stuff...... Princeton is doing experiments that have proven collective thought powers can alter random number generation. Isn't it also true that electrons are never in a specific location.....they are in an area of possibilities?
36 posted on 10/23/2001 9:42:48 PM PDT by BlackJack
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To: Starmaker
OK - I'll byte....

But, I do have one question:

Please, explain how this theory relates to one Electron that makes a 'quantum leap' (meaning that electron has enough energy to jump from one orbiting level to another) in a molecule of H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) here on Earth will affect another Electron on a planet circling Proxima Centauri (the closest star to Earth outside our Solar System) ?


I'm not trying to be obtuse...but I don't fully understand everything mentioned in this article....

i know...I Know....I went to a Publick Skool in Alabama. But, I did listen a little bit in Physics Class).

37 posted on 10/23/2001 9:48:20 PM PDT by Alabama_Wild_Man
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To: Weirdad
No, from what I've been told from nuclear physics, while it is a different electron that is pooped out the other end, the actual speed was institaneous as linked to the article above, the other atoms know whats going on in the first. I have been told that one reason that we are not seeing more fiberoptics internally in computers is that light is slower than electricity.
38 posted on 10/23/2001 9:54:10 PM PDT by In veno, veritas
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To: Starmaker
 
This article is a new rehash of some of Einstein's (and other's) old work see EPR Paradox
(Lotsa links available there for the inquisitive)
 

39 posted on 10/23/2001 9:59:16 PM PDT by LastDayz
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
to somehow "disentangle" the atoms within a cloud to measure all the "bits" of information without disturbing them will also require some work.

It's good they left something for the next generation of physicists to work on.

40 posted on 10/23/2001 10:05:50 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: All those who are willing to question....

Humans who live currently cannot possibly comprehend what humans who will live a mere 100 years from now will know and understand about the universe and existence...

They will possess power we have not yet dreamed of...

The secrets of the extremely large will come from learning the secrets of the very small...

Consciousness on planet earth is about to be forced to deal with it's own power...

It is now time for the conscious human being to learn not to fear the power that he possesses...

But instead learn to control it...

41 posted on 10/23/2001 10:09:02 PM PDT by Ferris
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To: Feisty1
I see your point - I was just trying and failing to say the article has a sort of spin to it - it mentions caesium, then talks almost exclusively about entanglement, almost giving the impression that it is some new thing (the clue being the mention of Einstein) - it then says at the end:

Up until now, the maximum amount of particles that scientists could entangle were a measly four atoms.

Unfortunately (especially since this article is for readers who may never have heard of entanglement) there are two ways to read that, and one way is 'the only particles they can entangle are atoms, and the max total is 4 of these' This is reinforced by the second line ("This is because atoms have..."). This is not true - light and electrons are the usual mediums for these experiments - usually they produce continuous beams of entangled particles.

Then again, quantum theory and all, light/electrons - is it fair to refer to them as a PARTICLE OR a WAVE??? - ARRRRRRGH!

42 posted on 10/23/2001 10:15:33 PM PDT by New Zealander
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To: Starmaker
A clever young fellow named Bright
Could travel much faster than light.
He departed one day,
In a relative way,
And arrived on the previous night.
43 posted on 10/23/2001 10:16:05 PM PDT by Octar
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To: In veno, veritas
I don't believe that is correct. The issue is that fiber-optics are really mirrors wrapped into a tube. The photons do not travel in a straight line but instead constantly bounce off of the 'walls' and therefore the distance that they travel is really 1/3rd longer than the distance that an electron would travel. It's been awhile, but I used to work in telecom where this stuff matters. From what I recall, latency on a fiber line is higher than a copper line for these reasons.
44 posted on 10/23/2001 10:19:35 PM PDT by wireplay
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: Starmaker
Good grief! I read the whole article and couldn't repeat more than one sentence of it - I should send it to my son,a chemist. Too many "egg-heads" here. Did you see the report where they put 'fat' cells on one side of a membrane, and 'nerve' cells on the other side, and the fat cells send signals to the nerve cells to tell the body to eat??
46 posted on 10/23/2001 10:37:40 PM PDT by potlatch
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: Ferris
It won't be humans that will possess all that power. It will either be some form of AI robots or some seriously mangled-up form of genetic mutants.

Or maybe the future will be owned by bunches of electrons or photons circulating through networks. Or maybe super intelligent nanobots that humans (the few that are left around) won't even be able to see.

Oh well. We had a nice 1,000,000 year ride while it lasted!

48 posted on 10/24/2001 7:55:16 AM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: nunya bidness
Here's one I found at auction on Amazon:

PHILIP K. DICK ~ LIES, INC. ~ FIRST EDITION ~ NEW IN DUST JACKET ~

Another good place to look for old books is at Powell's (although they don't have this one at the moment).

Looks like the Amazon auction ends in less than 3 hours, BTW...

49 posted on 10/24/2001 11:37:36 AM PDT by MadameAxe
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To: nunya bidness
Oops, make that less than 4 hours. It's also known as The Unteleported Man, which is also out of print. I have it under that name in a reprint edition...
50 posted on 10/24/2001 11:41:26 AM PDT by MadameAxe
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